Professional Condo Management Companies For Pattaya

[ripley]

Unfortunately, various Committees w/ hired managers haven't served us well. The Condominium is graft-ridden, withholding audits and financial reports and haemoraging (sp?) money and bldg. safety has become an issue. No point in voting in a new Committee, etc. as no reason to believe they will be any more honest, competent or law-abiding.

We're considering hiring a decent Management Company but don't know of one. The two we tried over the years didn't last out their 3-month trial period. We're told that it's the same story with all companies operating out of Pattaya.

Has anyone used a management company for a year or longer which has performed satisfactorily? Any Bangkok based companies willing to take on a Pattaya condo? Any recommendations?

We could really use some advice on this one.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Our working class condo in Pattaya has used a few over the years. Where their reports are good, they come in with low prices and then add extra charges, They like to use their cleaners, and repair people and over charge on repairs or have supervision fees for those not on the list (where they get a kick back) They all seem to see it as a cash cow to milk it for all it's worth. Some just more legally then others

Chok Dee

[Delight]

I speak as I find.

The Company that is employed at the condo where I live has proved satisfactory.

The name is QPM.

They are Bangkok based –but have a Pattaya operation.

Essentially they supply JPM (shared with other condos) Full time Building manager . They are large enough to also have an Engineering Dept . and a Legal Dept.. All the other suppliers are hired directly by the condo.

They work for a flat monthly fee.

They use their own bespoke software and carry insurance in case the building manager does a runner with the cash.

Reports are issued on a timely basis. They organise committee and general meeting agendas .

They worked with us –for no fee –from April 2007 until we removed the developer and his cronies. They officially started 1^st Sept 2007

When the condo’s transformer exploded on one Sunday morning –their team was there and organised a temporary replacement-then the new replacement . Finally they negotiated with the insurance company who then picked up all the costs.

However –you will still need a good committee

Jeffrey McCollum refers to a ’working class’ condo.

‘Professional class’ condo is likely to do better –the demand for high standards and the willingness to pay.

The QPM website link is :

http://www.qpm-co.com/page/contactEN.php

[Delight]

A small correction -The dates quoted should have read 2010

[ripley]

Hi Delight!

Our experience has been more like Jeffrey's. QPM was the last company we tried (some years ago). I've seen you mention your Management Company in other posts & seems they work well for you. But for us - no dice.

Any other ideas?

I also speak as I find (!) and agree a condo needs a good Committee to represent the owners - just not too close to where the cash is!

[ripley]

Hi Delight!

I've seen your mention in various posts of your condo's management company & sounds like they're working out really well for you. Excellent! Unfortunately QPM was one of our companies and miles away from satisfactory. They tried pulling a couple of fast ones on us before we pulled the plug. I don't know what accounts for the difference in our experiences, but glad you came out on the good side.

Our experience has been more like Jeffrey's and, of course, a dishonest management company is in an ideal position for graft. Need to find one that places more importance on integrity and long-term reputation than on the easy buck. One that's maybe been around for a long time & built up some trust. Century 21 has opened up a branch but I think it's only 2 months old here.

I agree with you about the importance of a good Committee. Maybe not too close to the cash box....

[Delight]

Your remarks ref.QPM are interesting

Back in 2010 we were advised that we were one of the 1^st to come on board. The recommendation came from one of View Talay condos.

It sounds like they worked out that ripping off condos has long term limits.

So maybe we have the new improved QPM.

Who knows –maybe in 6 months I might have to eat my words.

[givenall]

we fired our old condo management 4 month ago and hired Century 21 and they are doing a great job so far.

But in experience be prepared to change management companies every 3 years or so, before they get too comfortable

[Delight]

we fired our old condo management 4 month ago and hired Century 21 and they are doing a great job so far.

But in experience be prepared to change management companies every 3 years or so, before they get too comfortable

Did your committee attempt to motivate the previous management company prior to the dismissal? Did their requests fall on deaf ears?

[ripley]

Delight - what means can be used to "motivate" a management company that is misbehaving?

givenail - I think you may be on to something here when you say be prepared to change management companies every 3 years before they get too complacent. Now all we need is a list of alternative companies.

How about making a contract which includes 6-monthly or annual reviews of performance instead of blanket, long-term contracts?

[Delight]

It was the ‘givenail’ comment about management companies operating in comfort zone.

It occurred that that may be what’s is happening at the condo where I live.

‘Carrot and Stick ‘are the 2 regular tools available to fix such a problem.

In the end its all down to the committee.( In my case they have all gone AWOL)

That said a good building manager with initiative goes a long way.

Those who are good tend also to be ambitious and leave to develop their careers.

In the end the ‘givenail’ solution may have to be implemented.

I not aware of long term contracts –one months notice is normal I think

[ripley]

"It was the ‘givenail’ comment about management companies operating in comfort zone.

It occurred that that may be what’s is happening at the condo where I live."

Sorry - didn't follow that. Your company is doing alright so far isn't it?

Any leads on other companies? I got one message saying C-21 is rubbish, the other one on this page saying it's good.

Would you say that paying the (usually) high fee for a Professional Management works out to be cost effective in the long run?

When you have a committee that goes AWOL, I'd say maybe so!

[Delight]

The Management company is generally ok –but the building manager lacks initiative.

I suspect that I am the only co –owner who sees it that way. The rest –in the main –do not care because all the main functions work well.

The committee should be back in residence later in the year. I am the only all year rounder.

I can see no circumstances when we would employ a local person to be JPM . The condo is small –so in theory one person could do all the work.

Reasons:-

The sister building next door tried it.

Their man did not serve the agreed notice and attempted to wipe the hard drive clean-Too much power for one Thai individual.

With a management company the building has the benefit of:

1) Specialised software

2) Insurance to cover theft

3) Staff back –up to cover holidays and sickness

4) Back up support personnel in place to cover a major system failure.

5) Professional legal advice, Currently we are taking advantage of this.

The cost works out at around 900 baht per month per room (on average). and maintenance charge is 40B/M. This may seem expensive –but not many rooms.

Reference good reports /bad reports I can suspect that this is a consequence of the skills of the building manager. The first girl that QPM supplied was terrific. Her replacement was useless . The current girl is more about a secretary than a manager-but with good English and computer skills.

The benefit of ‘average’ is that they are likely to stay.

[ripley]

Thanks for the feedback. Interesting and you make some good points.

Funny thing is QPM did the same thing to us: gave us a dynamite manager for a few months and then, without warning or a by-your-leave, replaced her with a real bozo. They were adamant about it & deaf to protest. That was our first inkling that it wasn't going to work out. Seems to be their modus operandi. But, given your experience, perhaps it would be worth giving them another try....?

Oh Lordy! What to do with these pestiferous JPMs?!

[KRS1]

How much do management companies usually charge? Do you have to pay an ongoing monthly fee or only when something involving your unit comes up?

eg; new renter, repairs, upgrading, etc....

[smutcakes]

How much do management companies usually charge? Do you have to pay an ongoing monthly fee or only when something involving your unit comes up?

eg; new renter, repairs, upgrading, etc....

Management companies manage the common area of the condominium, and technically do not have any dealings inside your unit, or with your tenant. If you have an issue inside your unit from your own plumbing, electrics etc it is your responsibility, although at some buildings the management assist, advise for you depending on what has been agreed in the contract.

The management company would normally charge a professional fee monthly which would be paid out of your common area maintenance fee, so you have no choice but to pay it. The company, contract terms etc would be decided by the Committee. The condo would normally also have to pay the salaries of the staff at the property who would typically be employed under the management company.

[ripley]

If you have old, tried & true staff that you want to keep on I think the Management Co. has to go along with that. Or do they? Must you employ everyone and every service they put forward?

[Delight]

If you have old, tried & true staff that you want to keep on I think the Management Co. has to go along with that. Or do they? Must you employ everyone and every service they put forward?

I would say that you should never use Management Company suppliers. There must be a mark-up involved. The suppliers -internal and external -are managed by the building manager. That same manager is responsible for the recruitment of additions and replacements.

[smutcakes]

If you have old, tried & true staff that you want to keep on I think the Management Co. has to go along with that. Or do they? Must you employ everyone and every service they put forward?

If you are changing management company but want to keep certain staff from the previous management company, or Juristic Staff, just explain that to the new management company. There HR will then contact those staff and try and get them to join the new management company. That is obviosuly subject to the staff member agreeing to move, there being no previous issues between the new company and the member of staff, no issues with 'years service' and the new management company not wanting to guarntee redundancy pay or a long pay off if the staff has worked a number of years etc. In most circumstances there is no isse with this.

With regards the services, it is obviosuly up to the Committee to liasie as to what they require. Most companies can tailor their service for a condominium's requirements. Also the management will bring services, issues, advise to the Committee, but it is up to the Committee to approve or not, there is no obligation.

[smutcakes]

If you have old, tried & true staff that you want to keep on I think the Management Co. has to go along with that. Or do they? Must you employ everyone and every service they put forward?

I would say that you should never use Management Company suppliers. There must be a mark-up involved. The suppliers -internal and external -are managed by the building manager. That same manager is responsible for the recruitment of additions and replacements.

Delight, whilst I agree in some circumstances, it really depends on the management company.

Some of the larger management companies, have such big portfolios that they can really leverage the best suppliers into providing the best service at competitive rates. So whilst the Committee should look carefully at any quotes that are presented, it really is case to case and who is the management company and how trust worthy their people are. Not all preffered suppliers of the management companies is due to commissions/mark ups etc, some management companies do try to get the best deals for their condominium.

[Delight]

In my view the Management company should manage,supply the in -house specialized services Building manager -JPM -legal advice etc. and that's all.

If they supply to fulfill key services(swimming pool -gardeners -security -cleaners) then if you wish to sack the Management company-then at a stroke you lose just about all.

A recipe for complacency.from both the company and the committee.

That said there will always be circumstances when non of the foregoing applies-rich co-owners who prefer to see their condo as a hotel. It also eliminates the activity of corrupt committee members(maybe)

[smutcakes]

In my view the Management company should manage,supply the in -house specialized services Building manager -JPM -legal advice etc. and that's all.

If they supply to fulfill key services(swimming pool -gardeners -security -cleaners) then if you wish to sack the Management company-then at a stroke you lose just about all.

A recipe for complacency.from both the company and the committee.

That said there will always be circumstances when non of the foregoing applies-rich co-owners who prefer to see their condo as a hotel. It also eliminates the activity of corrupt committee members(maybe)

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying, and I completely agree with you.

[ripley]

"I would say that you should never use Management Company suppliers. There must be a mark-up involved. The suppliers -internal and external -are managed by the building manager. That same manager is responsible for the recruitment of additions and replacements". -Delight

Yeah - but isn't the building manager supplied by the Management Company???

smutcakes: Have you ever run into this trick of initially installing a good manager, then switching to an inferior one after a couple of months?

[Delight]

"I would say that you should never use Management Company suppliers. There must be a mark-up involved. The suppliers -internal and external -are managed by the building manager. That same manager is responsible for the recruitment of additions and replacements". -Delight

Yeah - but isn't the building manager supplied by the Management Company???

The Building Manager is in effect an extension of the JPM -and reports to the JPM. Together they satisfy the Condo Act that states the Condo must have a Manager.

For convenience I differentiated between Manager and all the other suppliers.

Agree it was a bit confusing

[smutcakes]

"I would say that you should never use Management Company suppliers. There must be a mark-up involved. The suppliers -internal and external -are managed by the building manager. That same manager is responsible for the recruitment of additions and replacements". -Delight

Yeah - but isn't the building manager supplied by the Management Company???

smutcakes: Have you ever run into this trick of initially installing a good manager, then switching to an inferior one after a couple of months?

Ripley,

Yes I have seen that, and I am afraid it can happens sometimes, as the Building Manager is employed by the management company so they have the right to change the person, and they would normally give an excsue like HR rotation policy, the original manager was only temporary etc.

To avoid this the Committee should insist on something in the contract to the affect that the building manager must stay for a min of say 1 year, subject to them remaining working in the management company, failure to do that can see some kind of financial penalty in the contract. However there will always be ways around it for the management company if they really want to move them, and obviosuly the manager can resign which the company has no choice in.

There are limited good managers, particulalry in Pattaya, and many condominiums so it is often very difficult for management companies to retain good staff, and as such if a manager wants to move buidling, the management company is likely to agree with them if it means retaining good managers within the company.

[ripley]

Okay. So I'm reading here that professional management companies are a mixed bag, not substantially better than a reasonably active committee? The owners pay through the nose for the services of a management company which then has many opportunities to take unethical advantage of its position. OR the owners pay through the nose to support unethical or incompetent activities of a committee. It's mostly a matter of ethics and the risk factor maybe works out about equal??

If you have a concientious Committee working with a reasonable Management company, I suppose it could work out and guess that's the whole concept. But I suspect most management companies wouldn't like interference and the condo would have rapid-fire dismissals of companies before finding a good one. Chaos.

I've checked the net & other sites on TVF, but am not coming up with many names/choices of Management companies. Wonder why... Any ideas? Experience?

Another question: The Thai Condo Act sets out strict rules for changing the JPM. Do those rules apply if your JPM is a Management Company? Don't know how that would work because it would mean you couldn't fire a company without an EGM. But I think it's done all the time. Anyone know about this?

[smutcakes]

Okay. So I'm reading here that professional management companies are a mixed bag, not substantially better than a reasonably active committee? The owners pay through the nose for the services of a management company which then has many opportunities to take unethical advantage of its position. OR the owners pay through the nose to support unethical or incompetent activities of a committee. It's mostly a matter of ethics and the risk factor maybe works out about equal??

If you have a concientious Committee working with a reasonable Management company, I suppose it could work out and guess that's the whole concept. But I suspect most management companies wouldn't like interference and the condo would have rapid-fire dismissals of companies before finding a good one. Chaos.

I've checked the net & other sites on TVF, but am not coming up with many names/choices of Management companies. Wonder why... Any ideas? Experience?

Another question: The Thai Condo Act sets out strict rules for changing the JPM. Do those rules apply if your JPM is a Management Company? Don't know how that would work because it would mean you couldn't fire a company without an EGM. But I think it's done all the time. Anyone know about this?

Ripley,

I am not sure the experience you have had with regards management companies and Committee, but perhaps you have just been unlucky. Not all management companies want to rip off co-owners, and for the most part they do an honest job, although there is always the chance you might get a 'bad apple' building manager who is trying to take kick backs etc. The reason that most Condominium's have building management companies is that they know what they are doing in terms of legal requirements, maintenance,operation etc and few Committee Members have the experience of building management or if they do, perhaps they dont want to spend ALL their time doing it. With a proper management company on board, the role of a Committee should be fairly limited on a day to day running of the property basis, and the management company would report weekly to the Committee on any issues, or on an as and when basis should there be a need to report something, or get an approval for something, as well as the monthly Committee meetings.

Even if your management company is also your JPM, you can still dismiss them of their JPM role through an EGM, and I am sure most management companies would not be bothered about that. Most companies do not like to do the JPM role anyway, but in order to win management contracts they are requested to also take that role on. It is not easy to find people willing to be the JPM as their is liability attached to it, so if you want to have seperate Building Management and JPM companies, there is a chance that you will need to pay a fee for both. The Committee can resolve themselves to terminate the management company, but to change the JPM it must be by a resolution of a General Meeting. If you are going to change your JPM, I would make sure you have someone willing to take it on prior to the General Meeting. Otherwise one of the Committee would take it on temporarily and by the sounds of things you dont have a great deal of confidence in them either. Most locals cannot be bothered to carry out the role, and some foreigners are concerned whether taking on the role could consitute being in employment and jepodize whatever visa they may have. As such you may have to approach a law firm to carry out the role which again means paying a fee. I doubt any management companies would take on the role, unless they were doing the building management as well. If you get stuck with a temporary JPM you could also have issues with the Lands Department not accepting a debt free certificate for the transfer of units as the signature they have on record is not the same as the temporary JPM, hence you could have a few angry people if they cannot sell their units.

[ripley]

Very informative, and I thank you for it.

True, I've had some negative experiences, and also see the potential - as I said - for unchecked or undetected misbehaviour in both Management Co.s & Committees. That isn't to say that I think all companies are rip-offs, or that all Committees are rip-offs or incompetent. It's only that, if they turn out to be, it's hell on the community to set things right.

My tendency is to go with a Management co. because they have the staff, a legal dept., translators, etc. plus do it for a living thus, one hopes, as a profession. The Committee, when working properly, should serve to monitor as representatives of the owners and thus we have a system of checks & balances.

But where o' where to find a Management Co. that comes well recommended after serving a condo for a year or more?? One has been mentioned (with reservations). Aren't there anymore?

[ripley]

Any feedback on:

Jones LaSalle

Knight Frank

CBRE

??

[ace]

We use CEMCO they're ok, it took a while to get a good manager. They tried to replace her one time and we (the committee) made it clear that their contract would be terminated should that happen.

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