My School Wants Me To Resign

[WonnabeBiker]

Hi All

I'm at a fairly large private school with a no fail policy. I teach regular classes of up to 58 students, a total of about 1,000 students. Fairness when it comes to grading is very important to me.

Today, the HR manager started grilling me regarding on evidence of Prathom students' performance to form that 60% "formative score".

I listed homework, presentations and several tests.

But this is not about the grading - it's the ultimate insult IMHO. Accuse a doctor of intentional medical malpractice. Accuse a teacher of messing with students' grades. (And this coming from a school with a "no fail policy" and all kinds of special needs kids in classes. A 10% score is miraculously turned into a 50% or 51% passing grade. And these folks want to accuse me of messing with the grades?!?

Nice try - the plan was to needle me till I would storm out in a huff?

Erm, how did it go - there was someone on this forum who wanted to go to Labour Court?

Cheers,

Chris

[RubbaJohnny]

Welcome to Thailand.Just recall your visa ends if you walk.

Sounds like you have had enough and with loss of face more important than integrity forThais may I humbly suggest not knowing how badly you need this post you have a Plan B ,new post,vacation or move on.

Good luck

.It at times like this sanook with friends and family are called for.

Edited September 17, 2012 by RubbaJohnny

[jpinx]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm having some trouble parsing that...

[sirchai]

" Fairnesswhen it comes to grading is very important to me." ( Life isn't always fair, when you'd ask me)

" Accuse a doctor of intentional medical malpractice. Accuse a teacher of messing with students' grades."

Seems to me that this was your first and last term at this school.

i didn't really understand your post, a kind of confusing, to be honest.

If you think you can make your own system when it comes to grading, you're wrong. All students pass in this country.

If you fail a student, the Thais will fix that and you wouldn't even know that. Your example with the doctor and the teacher sounds very questionable.

Is it possible that you just couldn't understand what they wanted (or not wanted)? Good luck -----

Edited September 17, 2012 by sirchai

[masuk]

It seems to be fairly common throughout Asia. Failing is just not part of the curriculum.

I know of one farang university lecturer in a nearby ASEAN country, who was told to go on leave for a week, after he failed a large percentage of his economics class.

On return, he was advised that the students had re-sat the exam, and wonder of wonders - they'd all passed!

He quit and returned to farang land.

[lostinisaan]

"Today, the HR manager started grilling me regarding on evidence of Prathom students' performance to form that 60% "formative score".

I'm wondering why they call him/her HR manager...

[NangrongJ]

It's not uncommon. Although I've not done any teaching in Thailand yet, but considering it, I have been a training manager for over 12 years including 6 years in the Middle East & North Africa. If you fail an Arab, particularly one that us well connected then get body armor. I've been, er...challenged many times but one alternative is to sign off the pupil ungraded or pass subject to..... That way we both safe face. I've been shot at, a knife pulled on me and threats gallore but as an ex Royal Marines Commando I'm not easily intimidated.

It's just the way it is in Thailand, keep a diary and that's your evidence should you need it. If they want to terminate your contract just say ok, see you in court I have lots of evidence collected daily and it will be embarrassing for this school when the newspapers read it. My friend did this in Dubai, it didn't go to court and they gave him a fat wallet to go. Stand form, it's your reputation that's matters.

[sirchai]

It's not uncommon. Although I've not done any teaching in Thailand yet, but considering it, I have been a training manager for over 12 years including 6 years in the Middle East & North Africa. If you fail an Arab, particularly one that us well connected then get body armor. I've been, er...challenged many times but one alternative is to sign off the pupil ungraded or pass subject to..... That way we both safe face. I've been shot at, a knife pulled on me and threats gallore but as an ex Royal Marines Commando I'm not easily intimidated.

It's just the way it is in Thailand, keep a diary and that's your evidence should you need it. If they want to terminate your contract just say ok, see you in court I have lots of evidence collected daily and it will be embarrassing for this school when the newspapers read it. My friend did this in Dubai, it didn't go to court and they gave him a fat wallet to go. Stand form, it's your reputation that's matters.

There won’t be anything in a newspaper. Thailand is much different to Dubai. There’s nothing embarrassing for the school, just one foreigner less.

Second term starts soon and many others are looking for a job. Forget any evidence; they’ll change the story, the way they want it.

Sorry, but that’s the truth about teaching in Thailand.-----

[NangrongJ]

Sirchai - I accept what you say to a point but all of Thailand is not the same. Also, with experience I would have seen this coming. I've got a few friends that have told me similar stories but it must be understood that it's all about power and position. I'm relatively well off and don't need the money as are my friends so we can afford to challenge them. Yes that might mean we won't work there again but it also means the next farang that comes might get a little more respect. Those that give up and say oh this is he way it is are simply spineless.

[chowny77]

I agree with NangrongJ. I have worked for nearly eight years now in Thailand and if I did a test and the child failed.........they failed! Before all my tests I would go through exactly what the test questions were and give then 10 minutes to go though their previous notes related to the test. I could not be any fairer than that. Pass or fail. I was asked to doctor scores for students but told the person it was too late and wrong to do so. I was excused from my position and now after 2-3 yrs my students are coming back to me to learn privately.

[SlyAnimal]

I previously had the same opinion, if you fail, you fail.

This is a reasonably long post, sorry for that, so I've put some paragraph headings to make it easier to read.

Problem:

Therefore, when I first started teaching at my current school, which was the first time I was responsible for grading them myself, I failed a lot of students. For the students whom I initially failed, when they came to me asking me to give them some extra work and pass them, I told them "Som Nam Naa" (You bloody deserved it). We all vehemently opposed the will of the school, and refused to back down. We knew that they couldn't dismiss us all lol.

However, my school decided to approach us with a reasonable explanation, and thus they explained the situation to me as follows:

Apparently, if they fail for whatever reason (0, mor sor or ror) it becomes a big problem for them, because no one fails. Therefore, it's actually a huge black mark on their record because so many other teachers will pass them regardless. As a result, the teachers prefer to give them a passing grade, provided that they complete additional work. Also they said that they can't effectively "graduate" without the subject being passed. They even organised a big meeting with all of the Mor 3 kids who had failed (All 3 of our foreign teachers + 2x chinese teachers were new, so we failed some significant numbers of students in our first term lol).

The students in the English program who failed, were all changed to passes I think (none of them ever approached me for a change in their grade, so I assume the school changed them), whom I taught for maths and admittedly, was very harsh on a lot of their grades (I figured they weren't competing vs anyone, so the marks were irrelevant, thus a mid year wake up for lazy students would work well).

As a result, I was pretty sure that the school would just pass the kids I'd failed, with or without our assistance (Although they really wanted our assistance in the matter).

Alternative logic:

In this sense, a 1 is really a fail. Rather than a 0 being a failing grade (irrespective of the silly table they have whereby 50%=1.0, 55% = 1.5 60 = 2.0 etc). Because, it's the same grade as what everyone will get, if they don't even turn upto class for a single day (Since the school will pass them regardless). Likewise, when I went to school, even if you failed one subject, it wasn't such a blemish on your record. Only if you failed multiple subjects was it a really black mark. Therefore, giving them a 1, even if they performed poorly, isn't really so different to in western countries.

Therefore, I decided to pass the students who had failed, provided they did some additional work for me (Which was what my school had recommended). However, this was kinda annoying, as I had all of these terrible students, who never paid attention in class etc, constantly bugging me in my free time to sign pieces of paper for them.

Solution:

As a result, I changed the way I graded students in the following term, so that I wouldn't fail students for lack of ability. So if students came to class on time, completed their assignments/tests/homework, then I would give them a minimum grade of a 2.0.

If they didn't complete their work, I'd give them a grade of Mor Sor (incomplete work/tests), and at the end of the term they had to complete the missing work, and then be upgraded to a 1.

If they had less than the attendance % I desired (That term I set it at 50%, this term I told them 80% but will probably set it at 60% or 70% for most classes, since most Thai teachers set it at 60% I think). Then when the students with Ror come to upgrade their mark, I assign them additional work, which upon completion of the work, I upgrade their mark to a 1.0.

Their extra work is easy, for every day they've been absent without a doctors cert/letter from parents, I assign them 500 lines along the lines of:

"If I am absent from class I will get Ror, likewise if I am absent from my job, I will get fired. I understand this now, and will endeavour to do better in the future.", or something about how if they are lazy they won't pass but if they work hard they will etc (It actually takes them at least 2 lines to write it, so 500 lines is actually equivalent to 1000 lol).

Now I know that they won't learn anything from this, other than the fact that skipping class is bad. Likewise I know that they won't do all of the lines themselves, their mother/father/sister/brother/friends/dog will all help them. However when they have 5000+, it probably takes even their entire family more hours to complete the lines, than the hours which they skipped class.

Results/Feedback

When I told my boss about my solution to the problem. He was really happy, as he wants the kids to pass, but he also wants them to learn a lesson. Your school will likely be the same. Also when they have a grade of Ror, rather than 0, your school will have less sympathy for them, because that shows that you're not just being a tough marker etc, but that the student is being lazy.

When their parents would sometimes come to visit me, I would explain to them in Thai what the sentence meant (or have someone help me to explain it). They would have huge smiles on their faces when they heard the translation + loved that the punishment was reasonably excessive.

Likewise, the students would actually thank me for their punishment (believe it or not! although maybe they were just being polite lol). Although this could also be because I would give them a discount on their lines (around 10-20%) if they completed it within a certain time frame. Although I did also learn to remind them, that it'd be doubled if they tried to cheat on their lines (colour photocopying or skipping numbers were the main types of cheating they tried).

Application to OP

I don't know how much of my example will apply to the OP, as I don't know the reason why the students are failing (Ror/Mor Sor/ 0, for mine it was primarily from lack of attendance by students in the Thai section), or if your school generally offers students the opportunity to do extra work in order to pass (Or if they just want them to initially have a passing grade). However I hope that this is useful, I think that it's the best stance to take, as you can fight the system and win, but is it really worth it when the grades will be changed regardless? Better instead, to at least make them do some extra work so that they learn a lesson from their lack of effort.

Edited September 17, 2012 by SlyAnimal

[thunder30101]

Yeah we are all spineless twits who are not ex royal marines (blow me, Im an ex delta-green beret-cia operative believe me I said it on an internet forum) You dont know anything about teaching in thailand and from your posts in other sections on thai visa quite a blow hard (thought you were a world class driving instructor). To the op get over yourself if you want to survive teaching here in thailand, sorry but you can stand on your soapbox and scream to the world about your morals but no one in thailand cares ! Teach to the kids who you can make a difference to and forget about the rest, you will be much happier.

[Scott]

It is a perennial problem and one that really isn't worth bothering yourself about. The point is they will pass. The grades that are entered in the Thai master grading book will reflect a passing grade.

In many Western countries if you fail a subject, you can repeat the subject the next year. In Thailand this is not possible, so a failing grade in one subject is a very big deal and one that isn't easy to correct.

Where I work, we are supposed to give a re-test and then give the student 50%. I usually tell the teachers to simply give them 50%. Why bother with the re-test; it's a waste of time. If a teacher wants to re-test, fine with me. If they want to assign extra work, that's also fine.

[bdw]

If the HR person in the school wants you gone, it will only be a short time before that is a reality.

[WonnabeBiker]

Thanks All -

this is my 2nd year. At my last school, the software wouldn't even allow a failing score to be generated. Not that I would want that, even if I could. If this is how they want it: who pays the piper, calls the tune.

It's the absurdity of them attacking my integrity, my foundation of grades. I explained, enumerating "homework and presentations, tests and notes". And that's just 60% of the total score. The 40% come from two tests with multiple choice answers.

So here they have such a "no fail policy" skewing statistic in a dramatic fashion. And then they are concerned about the better students' grades?!? Well, it's a strong message to make me resign.

Thailand is in for a rude awakening when it comes to ASEAN 2015 ambitions and hype. Take English speaking staff at their Labour Departments and Labour Courts. Try calling the Labour Court in Bangkok: 02 235 1500-8 then press 7 for English. The system doesn't recognize the 7 and the operator doesn't know what to do with a call and drops it.

Some of my P-4 students would be doing a good job manning the phones...

Back to the grading. I really get that any score below a passing grade will be altered so that it will become a passing grade. And it's my duty to handle the grading as fairly as possible.

Here is this HR manager, attacking me on the basis of her "female intuition" or hearsay that I won't deliver fair grades. It's an outrage - and intended to make me quit.

A normal dismissal would cost them a lot more - notice period and severance (100 days consecutive work? Yep, that will be 30 days' pay)

Take it easy,

Chris

[WonnabeBiker]

If the HR person in the school wants you gone, it will only be a short time before that is a reality.

Absolutely! I hear you and I share your view.

[WonnabeBiker]

It is a perennial problem and one that really isn't worth bothering yourself about. The point is they will pass. The grades that are entered in the Thai master grading book will reflect a passing grade. You bet!

In many Western countries if you fail a subject, you can repeat the subject the next year. In Thailand this is not possible, so a failing grade in one subject is a very big deal and one that isn't easy to correct. Last year, I met a teacher at a camp. He shared how he had to deal with angry parents when he failed a few students. That's one mistake I haven't done - I won't even think about doing that. Whatever they do, the minimum score will be awarded. 51% or whatever it is.

Where I work, we are supposed to give a re-test and then give the student 50%. I usually tell the teachers to simply give them 50%. Why bother with the re-test; it's a waste of time. If a teacher wants to re-test, fine with me. If they want to assign extra work, that's also fine.

Right. What I don't understand is why they are suddenly attacking me on my grading before it even happens. My conclusion is, they want me to resign.

[WonnabeBiker]

Yeah we are all spineless twits who are not ex royal marines (blow me, Im an ex delta-green beret-cia operative believe me I said it on an internet forum) You dont know anything about teaching in thailand and from your posts in other sections on thai visa quite a blow hard (thought you were a world class driving instructor). To the op get over yourself if you want to survive teaching here in thailand, sorry but you can stand on your soapbox and scream to the world about your morals but no one in thailand cares ! Teach to the kids who you can make a difference to and forget about the rest, you will be much happier.

Fair enough. I'll just award those who are above a passing grade their fair level. At P-4 etc., it won't matter that much in the greater scheme of things. // I meant to report an attack on me - prior to having awarded any grades yet - and not the philosophical wrongs of their system. My school rakes in 16 grand while a friend's school is only getting 2 grand. And AFAIK the party ends at the end of M3 anyhow, with hordes of students leaving the better schools.

[WonnabeBiker]

I previously had the same opinion, if you fail, you fail.

This is a reasonably long post, sorry for that, so I've put some paragraph headings to make it easier to read.

Problem:

Therefore, when I first started teaching at my current school, which was the first time I was responsible for grading them myself, I failed a lot of students. For the students whom I initially failed, when they came to me asking me to give them some extra work and pass them, I told them "Som Nam Naa" (You bloody deserved it). We all vehemently opposed the will of the school, and refused to back down. We knew that they couldn't dismiss us all lol.

However, my school decided to approach us with a reasonable explanation, and thus they explained the situation to me as follows:

Apparently, if they fail for whatever reason (0, mor sor or ror) it becomes a big problem for them, because no one fails. Therefore, it's actually a huge black mark on their record because so many other teachers will pass them regardless. As a result, the teachers prefer to give them a passing grade, provided that they complete additional work. Also they said that they can't effectively "graduate" without the subject being passed. They even organised a big meeting with all of the Mor 3 kids who had failed (All 3 of our foreign teachers + 2x chinese teachers were new, so we failed some significant numbers of students in our first term lol).

The students in the English program who failed, were all changed to passes I think (none of them ever approached me for a change in their grade, so I assume the school changed them), whom I taught for maths and admittedly, was very harsh on a lot of their grades (I figured they weren't competing vs anyone, so the marks were irrelevant, thus a mid year wake up for lazy students would work well).

As a result, I was pretty sure that the school would just pass the kids I'd failed, with or without our assistance (Although they really wanted our assistance in the matter).

Alternative logic:

In this sense, a 1 is really a fail. Rather than a 0 being a failing grade (irrespective of the silly table they have whereby 50%=1.0, 55% = 1.5 60 = 2.0 etc). Because, it's the same grade as what everyone will get, if they don't even turn upto class for a single day (Since the school will pass them regardless). Likewise, when I went to school, even if you failed one subject, it wasn't such a blemish on your record. Only if you failed multiple subjects was it a really black mark. Therefore, giving them a 1, even if they performed poorly, isn't really so different to in western countries.

Therefore, I decided to pass the students who had failed, provided they did some additional work for me (Which was what my school had recommended). However, this was kinda annoying, as I had all of these terrible students, who never paid attention in class etc, constantly bugging me in my free time to sign pieces of paper for them.

Solution:

As a result, I changed the way I graded students in the following term, so that I wouldn't fail students for lack of ability. So if students came to class on time, completed their assignments/tests/homework, then I would give them a minimum grade of a 2.0.

If they didn't complete their work, I'd give them a grade of Mor Sor (incomplete work/tests), and at the end of the term they had to complete the missing work, and then be upgraded to a 1.

If they had less than the attendance % I desired (That term I set it at 50%, this term I told them 80% but will probably set it at 60% or 70% for most classes, since most Thai teachers set it at 60% I think). Then when the students with Ror come to upgrade their mark, I assign them additional work, which upon completion of the work, I upgrade their mark to a 1.0.

Their extra work is easy, for every day they've been absent without a doctors cert/letter from parents, I assign them 500 lines along the lines of:

"If I am absent from class I will get Ror, likewise if I am absent from my job, I will get fired. I understand this now, and will endeavour to do better in the future.", or something about how if they are lazy they won't pass but if they work hard they will etc (It actually takes them at least 2 lines to write it, so 500 lines is actually equivalent to 1000 lol).

Now I know that they won't learn anything from this, other than the fact that skipping class is bad. Likewise I know that they won't do all of the lines themselves, their mother/father/sister/brother/friends/dog will all help them. However when they have 5000+, it probably takes even their entire family more hours to complete the lines, than the hours which they skipped class.

Results/Feedback

When I told my boss about my solution to the problem. He was really happy, as he wants the kids to pass, but he also wants them to learn a lesson. Your school will likely be the same. Also when they have a grade of Ror, rather than 0, your school will have less sympathy for them, because that shows that you're not just being a tough marker etc, but that the student is being lazy.

When their parents would sometimes come to visit me, I would explain to them in Thai what the sentence meant (or have someone help me to explain it). They would have huge smiles on their faces when they heard the translation + loved that the punishment was reasonably excessive.

Likewise, the students would actually thank me for their punishment (believe it or not! although maybe they were just being polite lol). Although this could also be because I would give them a discount on their lines (around 10-20%) if they completed it within a certain time frame. Although I did also learn to remind them, that it'd be doubled if they tried to cheat on their lines (colour photocopying or skipping numbers were the main types of cheating they tried).

Application to OP

I don't know how much of my example will apply to the OP, as I don't know the reason why the students are failing (Ror/Mor Sor/ 0, for mine it was primarily from lack of attendance by students in the Thai section), or if your school generally offers students the opportunity to do extra work in order to pass (Or if they just want them to initially have a passing grade). However I hope that this is useful, I think that it's the best stance to take, as you can fight the system and win, but is it really worth it when the grades will be changed regardless? Better instead, to at least make them do some extra work so that they learn a lesson from their lack of effort.

Cheers. I'm much lower in the school's pecking order than the recycling staff or the people sweeping the leaves in the morning. Taking on the school would be like throwing a fist at a tank. Guess who would get hurt in such an event? Yep, that would be me. (Unless the school might not even notice my antics). I'm pretty cynical about it. but what I'm hoping to get comments on is when (and how) they try hard to make someone resign.

That way, the school saves both, money for the notice period and the severance.

Thanks for taking the time to post!

Chris

[WonnabeBiker]

Sirchai - I accept what you say to a point but all of Thailand is not the same. Also, with experience I would have seen this coming. I've got a few friends that have told me similar stories but it must be understood that it's all about power and position. I'm relatively well off and don't need the money as are my friends so we can afford to challenge them. Yes that might mean we won't work there again but it also means the next farang that comes might get a little more respect. Those that give up and say oh this is he way it is are simply spineless. That would be me. But I intend to challenge them tomorrow by filing in Labour Court. They also cut my salary without notice...

[WonnabeBiker]

" Fairnesswhen it comes to grading is very important to me." ( Life isn't always fair, when you'd ask me)

" Accuse a doctor of intentional medical malpractice. Accuse a teacher of messing with students' grades."

Seems to me that this was your first and last term at this school.

i didn't really understand your post, a kind of confusing, to be honest.

If you think you can make your own system when it comes to grading, you're wrong. All students pass in this country. That's a known fact.

If you fail a student, the Thais will fix that and you wouldn't even know that. Your example with the doctor and the teacher sounds very questionable. I'm sorry - I meant the attack on one's professional integrity. Like a doctor, I don't want to "do harm", certainly not with intent! That's the part which made me start that rant. A representative of that established system is attacking me before I even submitted my grades?!

Is it possible that you just couldn't understand what they wanted (or not wanted)? Good luck -----

[WonnabeBiker]

It's not uncommon. Although I've not done any teaching in Thailand yet, but considering it, I have been a training manager for over 12 years including 6 years in the Middle East & North Africa. If you fail an Arab, particularly one that us well connected then get body armor. I've been, er...challenged many times but one alternative is to sign off the pupil ungraded or pass subject to..... That way we both safe face. I've been shot at, a knife pulled on me and threats gallore but as an ex Royal Marines Commando I'm not easily intimidated.

It's just the way it is in Thailand, keep a diary and that's your evidence should you need it. If they want to terminate your contract just say ok, see you in court I have lots of evidence collected daily and it will be embarrassing for this school when the newspapers read it. My friend did this in Dubai, it didn't go to court and they gave him a fat wallet to go. Stand form, it's your reputation that's matters.

There won’t be anything in a newspaper. Thailand is much different to Dubai. There’s nothing embarrassing for the school, just one foreigner less. I would bet my net worth on this outcome. Still, the question is - and I'm sorry for not having asked that question clearly -

will they just terminate me properly, or will they lean on me until I resign, so that they can save that payment for any notice period and the severance due after more than 100 days?

Second term starts soon and many others are looking for a job. Forget any evidence; they’ll change the story, the way they want it.

Sorry, but that’s the truth about teaching in Thailand.-----

[WonnabeBiker]

"Today, the HR manager started grilling me regarding on evidence of Prathom students' performance to form that 60% "formative score".

I'm wondering why they call him/her HR manager...

Good question. She is the Hatchet Man for the job - needle the farang until he resigns. Otherwise, they should fire folks at the earliest opportunity and especially near the end of the probation period. Just my 2 cents.

I'm dreading more nasty surprises and dirty tricks, you know? every day, they drag out the inevitable, is costing them 1,000 Baht!

[NangrongJ]

Thunder with a valuable contribution to the post, lots to say but another one who gives up when problems arise.

[WonnabeBiker]

Welcome to Thailand.Just recall your visa ends if you walk.

Sounds like you have had enough and with loss of face more important than integrity forThais may I humbly suggest not knowing how badly you need this post you have a Plan B ,new post,vacation or move on. Absolutely - am looking at other pastures. But I bloody well would want to get fired or negotiate something like a partial salary payment for an okay reference... Me running would save them tens of thousands and it's that what I try not to do. although it's tempting.

I kinda like this town - got some sweet private gigs.

Good luck

.It at times like this sanook with friends and family are called for.

[SlyAnimal]

As far as whether they'll lean on you or just fire you.... that's upto the school, it'd depend on their attitude. If they're a poor school, legal issues won't bother them, if they're a rich school they might think about the legality of what they do. However, I think that their ideal option will be to keep you onboard, and not cast you adrift, however they'd want everyone on their ship to be rowing in the same direction soto speak.

Personally I think that you can avoid having a dismissal/constructive dismissal simply by discussing the problem with them in a reasoned and logical way. Since you both want what's best for the students, if you both explain your points of view, and listen to each other, you can come to a constructive outcome. Perhaps the one which I suggested above would be something which you could suggest, or you could work something else out which satisfies both parties.

As, at least in my opinion, a passionate teacher who genuinely cares about the student's longterm welfare and Education is the best type of teacher. You're obviously passionate about the students, and so it'd be a shame for the school to lose you, when instead they just need to harness all of that positive energy so that you're all working towards the same goals.

[beano2274]

A question about your visa, do you have an extension from within Thailand for the purpose of work, cause as soon as you are out of the job you have to leave Thailand within 7 days, and if they are a big school they will let other schools know and your chances of another job might be slimmer than you think.

[richard10365]

Believe it or not, passing is mandated by the Ministry of Education in Thailand. However, I have read reports that Thailand is considering letting students fail. However, that law hasn't been passed yet. So if you fail your students, you're breaking the law. Try not to rock the boat.

[thunder30101]

^ Total BS a mandate, which there is not for passing students by the MOE, is not LAW. Lots of students fail classes at universities I have taught at by thai teachers, not by me though as I learned a long time ago its not worth the headache.

[richard10365]

^ Total BS a mandate, which there is not for passing students by the MOE, is not LAW. Lots of students fail classes at universities I have taught at by thai teachers, not by me though as I learned a long time ago its not worth the headache.

I should have clarified that. What I said applies only to K-12 schools. They fail all the time at universities.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/582069-testing-service-chief-wants-bad-students-to-repeat-grades-thailand/

Edited September 20, 2012 by richard10365