True Docsis Slower Than Adsl (International Speeds)

[urbangeak]

I have been using True's ADSL for a year with their 599 Baht, 7 mbps package but was limited to 5 mbps as they said I was too far away and the line would be unstable if they set it to more than 5 mbps. And so I recently decided to got their cable 10M/1M package, doubling my current speed for just 100 baht more. I have kept my ADSL line meanwhile just as a backup till I am satsified with the new cable connection.

When running speed tests to local sites I get full speeds, but to international servers the cable connection gets like 1 mbps but the same test at the same time with my ADSL gives full 5 mbps! has anyone experienced this? I expected cable to be superior to ADSL, does cable connection also get affected by the number of users in your vicinity?

[Pib]

It could the speedtesting program/sites you are using. Sometimes they seem to react differently to ADSL and DOCSIS connections. By reacting differently I don't mean that 10Mb ADSL is real world faster or slower than the 10Mb connection (or vice versa) for international connections, it's just the speedtest program gives different results which may be bogus.

When testing to international sites do you get "real world" ping times which would be an indicator of valid results? Say you test to the U.S./Europe...are you getting ping times in the 200-300ms ballpark or much lower. If much lower like below 100ms you are getting bogus/skewed results due to "in-Thailand" cache servers...you are really testing to that in-Thailand server although you think you are testing to that FarangLand server. I kinda doubt your 5Mb ADSL speed results to international servers was valid.

[negreanu]

I thought DOCSIS is community related in that if you have 20 neighbours using the internet heavily then your bandwidth will suffer. Slightly different mechanics to ADSL.

[Pib]

On my 12 house soi at least 5 of the houses have DOCSIS...I really don't notice much of any speed/bandwidth difference throughout the day/night compared to when I had TOT ADSL. From my experience with both ADSL and DOCSIS, both slow down somewhat for international bandwidth (but in-Thailand speed stayed steady) during the late evening/early night which I attribute to people coming home from work/school across Bangkok/Thailand and getting on the internet...and loading down the ISP's international gateway. But that has just been at my location here in western Bangkok...since local circuits can make a big difference every person's results will vary by location and by ISP.

[Jayman]

I am in the same situation as the OP. Right now I have both ADSL and docsis from true. What I can tell you is that when you do the speedtest on many popular test sites via the adsl you will notice the ping time is sub 100ms. That is the red flag that you are getting caches results and not true (no pun) results. On the cable connection on these same tests I get ping times on 200-300ms to the US and those speed tests are more accurate. Sure it looks like the adsl is faster but in reality you are downloading the test files from the ISP cache in BKK and not from the overseas source that you think you are.

Try some sites that aren't cached for speed test....

http://myspeed.visua...e.com/index.php

Try this one from both connections

http://tinyurl.com/9p4ea9u

EDIT: looks like Pib already stated all this.

this is from cable.. 16M/1.5M connection.. notice the ping time

and here are fake results from my ADSL 9M/1M

can also use http://speedtest.trueinternet.co.th/ but pay attention to the ping times when you test the servers outside thailand

Last Result:

Download Speed: 15309 kbps (1913.6 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 566 kbps (70.8 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 236 ms

Tuesday, October 02, 2012 05:44:07

Edited October 1, 2012 by Jayman

[rezbin]

I have found that many ISPs in Thailand lie about the speedtest.net results. 3BB and True will show the correct latency, but will falsify the throughput.

TOT on the other hand does not proxy the speedtest.net results, and will show accurate readings. As such, your subscribed plan is for Thailand traffic, with no guarantees on what you will get overseas. (TOT has been very honest to me about this stance, and also acknowledged their 'competitors' play tricks to calm customer complaints.

Overseas you will, at most get maybe 1-3Mbps per-stream at most times which breaks speedtest.net, and forced some ISPs to provide false readings to prevent complaints.

As an example, here is my speedtest.net results to San Francisco, CA via 3BB 12M/1M plan.

Edited October 2, 2012 by rezbin

[rezbin]

http://speedtest.trueinternet.co.th/

(To USA)

Last Result:

Download Speed: 30348 kbps (3793.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 1517 kbps (189.6 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 238 ms

Tue Oct 02 2012 12:39:47 GMT+0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)

This is with a 12M/1M 3BB Adsl... completely bunk results.

Edited October 2, 2012 by rezbin

[Jayman]

The one true way I have found to test speed on my connection is via torrent downloads.

I grab a very popular, well seeded torrent and start downloading and the measure the throughput on the line.

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:BCF2E587AFD4D3B1BDD8ECE5150D9FB4D2958AF4&dn=ubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso&tr=http%3a//torrent.ubuntu.com%3a6969/announce

is a good one. Of course bear in mind that some isp's will limit the torrent traffic and I always do this test with encryption forced.

Also, good tools for testing traffic shaping on your line here.. http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/glasnost.php?

Edited October 2, 2012 by Jayman

[negreanu]

The one true way I have found to test speed on my connection is via torrent downloads.

I grab a very popular, well seeded torrent and start downloading and the measure the throughput on the line.

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:BCF2E587AFD4D3B1BDD8ECE5150D9FB4D2958AF4&dn=ubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso&tr=http%3a//torrent.ubuntu.com%3a6969/announce

is a good one. Of course bear in mind that some isp's will limit the torrent traffic and I always do this test with encryption forced.

Also, good tools for testing traffic shaping on your line here.. http://broadband.mpi...y/glasnost.php?

That will of course give you multiple connection speed test. Like multiple connections to a server.

Which I believe is accurate way of measuring speed but some on here say that is cheating.

For example I can max out my 16MB True connection at 2.1MB/s using usenet server and 20 connections to the server.

You just have to adapt to how you use your allocated bandwidth here in Thailand to maximise it either torrents, Usenet etc.

Edited October 2, 2012 by negreanu

[Jayman]

True tech guy just left. He came with a moto SB5101NE in hand to swap out with my Cisco. We chatted a bit and both agreed than now that I have the cisco setup in bridge mote it's a suitable modem. The moto modem is very plain jane. 1 port, no wifi, and no options that are user configurable. In bridge mode, both modems have the same feature set. If I even need to run the router/wifi on the cisco then it is a much more robust modem. He said if I ever have problems with the cisco then he can come out and swap for the motorola surfboard.

Until then, why mess with something that is working.

[Pib]

I have found that many ISPs in Thailand lie about the speedtest.net results. 3BB and True will show the correct latency, but will falsify the throughput.

It's not so much the ISPs, it just most speedtest programs which are not programmed/written in a way to prevent caching from providing skewed results.

[rezbin]

That could be

I have found that many ISPs in Thailand lie about the speedtest.net results. 3BB and True will show the correct latency, but will falsify the throughput.

It's not so much the ISPs, it just most speedtest programs which are not programmed/written in a way to prevent caching from providing skewed results.

That could be true in some cases, however the test in question is speedtest.net, and other ookla licensees. The protocol is specifically designed to work around caching server, and other 'in the middle' cachers, however there are enterprise ookla simulators that work as a man-in-the-middle for speedtest.net & family, and work as a traffic responder to mimic traffic from the destination server. We run an ISP in Canada, and have had a chance to experiment with these first hand. They do work, but they are not ethical.

[urbangeak]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I ran some tests just now and yeah there is a big difference between ping times, the ADSL speed tests were indeed cached. Here are my results

Docsis:

ADSL:

True's speed test

Docsis:

Download Speed: 954 kbps (119.3 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 1120 kbps (140 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 221 ms

Tuesday, October 02, 2012 20:12:06

ADSL:

Download Speed: 5027 kbps (628.4 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 425 kbps (53.1 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 40 ms

Tuesday, October 02, 2012 20:19:03

@Jayman

I ran the test from http://myspeed.visualware.com/index.php

This one seems to show accurate ping time for the ADSL, and the ADSL is a bit faster

Docsis:

Download: 496 Kbps

Upload: 1121 Kbps

Ping: 300ms

ADSL:

Download:1201 Kbps

Upload: 197 Kbps

Ping: 212 ms

I still feel my docsis is slower compared to the ADSL, but I need to be sure.

I ran a torrent a few days back and noticed it to be very slow (50KB/s) & while the torrent was running I switched to the ADSL and I noticed some improvements (100KB/s).

Another torrent gave me around 500KB/s but I realized it was from one of the peers in Thailand.

I am going to try testing with a well seeded torrent but I don't know if its possible to connect only to international peers to get better results.

I just hope I don't have bandwidth hogging neighbors using docsis, else I am better off with ADSL.

[Pib]

As FYI if you setup/turn-on one of the True proxy servers in your browser, it should eliminate the faster than light/bogus ping time and bogus download/upload speed for international web sites. Something about going through the proxy that prevents (or at least changes) the bogus results.

Normally I don't use the proxy unless True seems to be having speed problems and/or I can't reach certain websites....usually some U.S. govt website...turning on the proxy usually fixes the problem. I have been using the proxy for the last few weeks due to True being really slow to certain websites sometimes like ThaiVisa....turn the proxy on and things speed up very significantly...but when True ain't having issues there is very little browsing speed difference between proxy turned on and proxy turned off. But for me at least, whether True is having speed problems or not, turning hte proxy on always get rid of bogus speedtester type results based on OOKLA.

Anyway, here is the proxy settings:

proxy.trueinternet.co.th Port 8080

or

proxy.asianet.co.th Port 8080

[Pib]

I'm on the True DOCSIS 20Mb/2Mb package and just as FYI, here's my Speedtest.net results to New York (the Optimum Online server since several servers exist under the NY selection). Tests ran around 9:20pm.

With Proxy On (notice a valid ping time and believeable international download/upload speeds)

With Proxy Off (notice bogus/faster than light ping time and probably bogus dowload speed...in fact I'm surprised the download speed is not aorund 21Mb (bogus) which I normally pull to most any speedtest international server on Earth with the proxy turned off...probably due to True's issues over the last few weeks which quite a few people seem to be complaining about. In fact the Speedtest.net hungup a few times while running the test with Proxy Off)

And my typical "in-Thailand" results with proxy off or on.

[urbangeak]

I use True's proxy in the same way you do but didn't know that it affects the speed test. And it's weird because in my case its faster with the Proxy turned on.

By the way, not sure if anyone noticed that True has just upgraded their speed plans. If I had waited for 2 more weeks, I would have gone with their new 599 Baht package for 10M. But anyway its going to be 14M for me now.

http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/packagedetail/238/อินเทอร์เน็ตคุณภาพสูง_10_200_Mbps.เริ่ม_599_บ._เดือน

[tinfoilhat]

all i know is my docsis has been problematic lately and today my 30/3 connection was throttled at 11, and after i complained they asked me to turn off the modem, the resent the certificate and now its pegged at 22 and i usually get 33.

After years of flawless service with ADSL, and almost a year on the 20/2 package there have been issues almost weekly over the last 2 months.

That said, streaming, web browsing etc, have all been solid, it is just moving big schwacks of data that that are the issue

[MartinBKK]

I just got my 14/1.2 TRUE docsis service today and so far i wish i hadn't. Very very slow international speeds and much worse than my current ISP TOT. I'm in Chiang Mai.

[GreenSnapper]

I just got my 14/1.2 TRUE docsis service today and so far i wish i hadn't. Very very slow international speeds and much worse than my current ISP TOT. I'm in Chiang Mai.

True Adsl is also very crappy the recent weeks. Some days i have download speeds of 20kb/s - on a perfect 7Mb line.

[SaintLouisBlues]

Do True always supply the cable modem for DOCSIS? I would prefer to buy a decent modem overseas that has WiFi, USB etc, rather thn rely on some cheap thing they supply.

[monty]

Do True always supply the cable modem for DOCSIS? I would prefer to buy a decent modem overseas that has WiFi, USB etc, rather thn rely on some cheap thing they supply.

Yes they do.

I think authentication is done by mac address, so there would be no way to get your own modem to work.

My True supplied modem is a cisco epc 2325.

If needed, it can be put in bridge mode, so you can only use the cable modem part and let any routing/wifi handled by whichever device you prefer.

The cisco will issue your public IP direct to your routet so it's totally invisible/transparrent.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MaxLee]

I just got my 14/1.2 TRUE docsis service today and so far i wish i hadn't. Very very slow international speeds and much worse than my current ISP TOT. I'm in Chiang Mai.

True Adsl is also very crappy the recent weeks. Some days i have download speeds of 20kb/s - on a perfect 7Mb line.

Since the late in the moring, I cannot load youtube properly, is it a problem with the DNS server, or whatsoever???

[SaintLouisBlues]

My True supplied modem is a cisco epc 2325. If needed, it can be put in bridge mode, so you can only use the cable modem part and let any routing/wifi handled by whichever device you prefer.

Well ... As that modem only has 10/100 rather than GB ports, using it even as a bridge won't help. Is that the only model they supply?

[Dork]

My True supplied modem is a cisco epc 2325. If needed, it can be put in bridge mode, so you can only use the cable modem part and let any routing/wifi handled by whichever device you prefer.

Well ... As that modem only has 10/100 rather than GB ports, using it even as a bridge won't help. Is that the only model they supply?

In Bridge Mode the LAN speed would only make any difference if your TRUE package was over 100Mbps.

Links showing TRUE supplied cable modems here:

With WiFi: http://support2.truecorp.co.th/detail.aspx?document_id=317

Without WiFi: http://support2.truecorp.co.th/detail.aspx?document_id=316

However............. You can only get what they have in stock which when I had cable installed earlier this year was the Thomson only. The main differences apart from WiFi are whether they are DOCSIS 2 or 3.

I also wanted to use my own cable modem but TRUE wouldn't do it under any circumstances. Even trying to bribe the installer didn't work. I think this can be confirmed by the fact that there are no cable modems on sale in Thailand.

I think Monty gave the best advice, get a Cisco & put it in bridge mode to a decent router. I did that and it has worked flawlessly for several months.

I'm pretty sure though, that the Thomson they offer doesn't support bridge mode. It was only after my insistence on using my own modem that they "found" me a Cisco instead.

[monty]

True does indeed have a 200 mbps package, but no idea what modem they would supply with that package.

As said, up to a 100 mbps package the cisco will be good enough.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[matt111]

And it's weird because in my case its faster with the Proxy turned on.

It may be, packet loss is likely to be the reason, weather its caused locally by wifi signals, bad router firmware, annoying family member downloading torrents or just the usual 1-2% observed when you > 50% of what you've subscribed to. when using a proxy (depending on how its setup) the tcp session on the other end is new/clean session (hoping its on the other side of packet loss area), so lets say you're downloading 100mb test from New York with a rtt of ~300ms when you introduce a small percentage of packet loss (at all levels regardless of window scaling) you're going to see crap speeds (pretty much what uncached speedtests are showing) as its scaled back to a fraction of your speed, it will eventually rise again you'll probably find its something crap like a 1/10th of your connection as TCP scaling presumes that the packet loss scales with thoroughput which is not the case with our commodity adsl/docsis residential connections. The best solution is a non-passthrough buffering proxy (probably bad terminology - correct me) just on the outside, i.e. singapore. If you're willing to play it and work with the limitations then that 599 baht connection a month is actually pretty good value. vpn doesnt really solve the problem as the data channel at least on openvpn is dumb (thats not a slur its just not a reliable protocol by design that left to e.g. the tcp sesssion(s) its tunneling). If you can resolve the packet loss affecting tcp on a small latency link ~<70ms things become much smoother, ever wonder why SG speedtests are pretty solid?

FYI, a happy true docsis user on the lowest/cheapest plan, no unsolvable issues that arent documented everywhere, time for some netflix..

Edited June 24, 2013 by matt111

[SaintLouisBlues]

Only the ones with 10/100/1000 are worth having, the others are very old technology.

[Dork]

Only the ones with 10/100/1000 are worth having, the others are very old technology.

Yes especially when you sign up for your 1000Mbps cable package.

[SaintLouisBlues]

Only the ones with 10/100/1000 are worth having, the others are very old technology.

Yes especially when you sign up for your 1000Mbps cable package.

Obviously you need educating in the purpose of the 4 1000 ports in exchanging data between the devices connected to those ports; their role is for the "router" side of the modem/router hybrid device and have nothing to do with the speed of the Internet connection. But thanks for supplying me with my first laugh of the day.

[sniffdog]

I bet none of True's routers come with gigabit ports ....

And where can I sign up for a 1000mbs package?