Upsetting The Locals

[Michael Hare]

Many Thai people are very sensitive. After living here since 1974 and in Ubon since 1994. I still seem to put my foot in it and upset people.

Sunday week ago I returned home and there was a car packed with its nose in my gateway. Cars were also parked up the street. I wondered if this was a visitor waiting for me. I got out, walked around, no one was in sight. Crossed the road to ask the neighbours if they knew whose car it was. Waited and waited.

Finally, two middle-aged ladies with a young boy casually walked up the street carrying bags of food. They used the remote to open the car. They saw me and sweetly smiled. I said that I have been waiting some time to get my car into my house. One lady said sorry. The other said that they were only away for 10 minutes or so. I replied that it was a long 10 minutes but that wasn't the point. They shouldn't park in front of a gate and block access in and out. Again the lady said only 10 minutes. I relied that you Thai people have no manners.

Four days later an EMS card arrives in mailbox addressed to my son who works in Bangkok. This weekend he came home so I collected it from the Post Office.

He read it and said did I upset someone whose car was in from of my house. No I said, they upset me. He said that I had told them they had no manners.

The letter, four A4 pages, went like this.

To the bird-shit, cave dwelling farang.

We live in your area. We always thought you were a kind and considerate man. You give alms to the monks every Saturday. You paid for the council to fix the roads in your street But we are wrong.

You have no kindness in your heart. You are evil dirty bird-shit farang.

You said we had no manners for parking in front of your gate. But you have no kindness. Thai people are kind and forgive. They have compassion. By saying we Thai people have no manners you are also saying that the King of Thailand has no manners.

You are an evil man who only comes to Thailand to make it dirty.

We hope that we never again meet a bird-shit farang like you.

The letter went around in circles but basically said the same things over and over for four pages.

My son said I should just keep my mouth shut. It hopeless to explain or try to educate these people. They will never understand. My good friend David Peters in Ubon said that after 45 years living in Thailand, materially it has improved but the mind-set has remained the same.

My Australian friend in Ubon had a similar situation with a car blocking his gate. He exploded and told the driver to <snip> off many times. He ddn't receive a letter but I received a letter for saying they had no manners.

Anyway, many Thai people are very sensitive. I will keep my mouth closed next time. For sure, that lady won't park in front of my house again. Or will she?

Edited October 1, 2012 by metisdead
: Profanity

[Payboy]

Next time just let the air out of their tyre Thai compassion style.

[submaniac]

honestly, I would just let it go. The Thai people don't hate you, the neighbors don't hate you, you have a dispute with one person basically. The neighbor's guests blocked my driveway in the USA. I let them have it. They don't do it anymore. It is very rude to do that in the West. In Thailand, actually happened alot. The house is in BKK and it's a small soi so someone is always blocking someone else. I guess it's a different mentality with what is acceptable to put up with.

[eek]

..a few years back, i shared a house with a female friend.

One car in particular used to park outside our garage (occasionally other cars, but this one regularly). We had a sign in Thai asking people not to park there. THis girl worked around the corner. I dont recall if my friend placed a flyer in Thai on her car, asking her not to park there OR went into the work place to ask one of the staff members if she could move her car. (My friend speaks fluent Thai). Anyway, the girl lost it when she saw my friend, ranting and raving that this is Thailand and Thai people are kind etc and farang dont understand.

But i dont recall her parking there again after that.

I confess though, that people parking blocking our garage, began to bug me to such a degree, i became passive aggressive.. at times i spatted food matter on their car (yogurt, egg..). ..in the hope that they would figure out that parking there wasnt a good idea.

In your situation OP, i think i wouldnt have laid it on too thick for a first time offense. If i do something wrong, i accept a scolding, but if its dragged on, just makes me resentful (even if my fault). But, do understand your frustration.

[ikis]

that is just full retard.

i would be so pissed off and would definitely write a reply letter for those ladies. you know you're right.

and yes, those ladies will park in front your house again.

[noob7]

Ah, the killer argument :

"By saying we Thai people have no manners you are also saying that ..... has no manners."

I was waiting for this!

but I doubt, she will park there again.

Good that you didn't honk.

[uptheos]

As my wife says, "when you see the snake don't try to grab it, just let it go or it might hurt you"

I do know someone who did something similar to eek, but with superglue.

They left their own (new) car outside the gate about six months later for a short while during the day and it was keyed really badly from head light to tail light.

No-one saw a thing.

[eek]

Ow Uptheos! Thats why i chose food-stuffs. Then its just a annoyance to the owner of the car, rather than permanent damage. Permanent damage carrys a risk of retaliation.

[noob7]

Btw:For the future, you can try the 'water bottles' -thing.

I see it everywhere around. And looks like, it is working!

[eek]

The water bottles is for the dogs. Apparently they dont like it (reflections or something..its bizarre!)

But, if the water bottle thing stops people too..well lol..great.

[BoonToong]

Btw:For the future, you can try the 'water bottles' -thing.

I see it everywhere around. And looks like, it is working!

What is the 'water bottles thing' please Noob?

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

I sympathize, I have also been subjected to acts of mindless discourtesy by people in Thailand, however your posting suggests that you have already fallen into the trap of thinking that they are mindless and discourteous because they are Thai. Quote: " I relied that you Thai people have no manners"

It's not Thai's who are morons. Morons are fairly evenly distributed throughout the world's population.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[noob7]

Btw:For the future, you can try the 'water bottles' -thing.

I see it everywhere around. And looks like, it is working!

What is the 'water bottles thing' please Noob?

never seen 'hundreds' of water bottles (mostly 1.5 liter) placed on the road, before a garage entrance/fence?

Thai for :Don't park here, privat!

[Michael Hare]

Thank you for you replies. I didn't lay it on thick at all. The whole conversation was over in about 1 minute. At least once a week I get home from work and find a car parked across my gateway. Usually the driver rushes over, apologizes, gives a wai and I smile and say no problem and that is that.

I am well known in this community. It was the attitude of these ladies that they had done no wrong that caused me to say that they had no manners. Ok I shouldn't have said you Thai people have no manners, I also should have smiled and laughed when I said it.

But what concerns me is the deep seated resentment expressed in the letter. Is this typical of the middle-class mindset in Thailand? For saying something, I am evil, a birdshit farang who comes to Thailand to make it dirty? My American friend in Ubon says many people here think like this. I have never met any kind of person like this before in my life.

[uptheos]

Ow Uptheos! Thats why i chose food-stuffs. Then its just a annoyance to the owner of the car, rather than permanent damage. Permanent damage carrys a risk of retaliation.

I know what you mean and Thai's have long memories.

BTW " at times i spatted food matter on their car (yogurt, egg.."

I can't imagine you doing this eek, I need you to give a more detailed description of how you spat it. Well masticated, from a distance, night or day etc.

[Morakot]

OP how long did you have to wait for and why didn't you say: 'Lady, you have no manners!' ? What is this all about with the Thais? Is the nationality of the offender relevant?

Edited October 1, 2012 by Morakot

[Morakot]

Ah, the killer argument :

"By saying we Thai people have no manners you are also saying that ..... has no manners."

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Edited October 1, 2012 by Morakot

[sirchai]

To be honest, you shouldn't have said "you Thai people have no manners", when you've got (just a little) problem with a neighbor.

What she did, happens to me all the time. When you lose your temper, you lose the game.

When a Thai person calls you Kee Nok, it's not really about bird shit. Guess you know that.

I stay calm, as I do not want to waste my energy because of a wrong parked car, people here are doing worse things.

Your Australian friend with his lost temper can be happy that he's still alive, there are some places where people would get a gun and kill you saying that snip off many times.

Ever thought about how stupid this guy must be to show such a reaction?

And you're asking yourself why this woman wrote such a letter.....----

Edited October 1, 2012 by sirchai

[eek]

Ow Uptheos! Thats why i chose food-stuffs. Then its just a annoyance to the owner of the car, rather than permanent damage. Permanent damage carrys a risk of retaliation.

I know what you mean and Thai's have long memories.

BTW " at times i spatted food matter on their car (yogurt, egg.."

I can't imagine you doing this eek, I need you to give a more detailed description of how you spat it. Well masticated, from a distance, night or day etc.

My splatting style was wielding a spoon in right hand, and catapulting/pinging with left (same technique as one might have used as a kid, when sitting across from sibling at breakfast table, with soggy cornflakes^^). Good propulsion, and swift!

Edit: not forgetting massive stupid grin on face.

Edited October 1, 2012 by eek

[robblok]

I think the guy was right complaining, you should not block an others gate. Thais are often real inconsiderate when parking. Just think of taxis and minivans and even normal cars double or triple parking effectively blocking many lanes on a road. All for their own convenience, not caring they inconvenience many others this way. Real selfish attitude.

Not all Thais of course but many, gf who is Thais dislikes people like that too. You just see this attitude a lot more in Thailand then in the West, probably because there you get fined or scolded if you do so.

sorry for the rant its one of my pet hates and near here lots of traffic jams caused by this. Only times it goes well is when the police checks them during rush hours. Traffic passes faster then then in less busy times.

Edited October 1, 2012 by robblok

[Pushit]

"No Parking/24Hr Access At All Times" signs on our front gate do the trick.

Er....Most of the time

Edited October 1, 2012 by Pushit

[noob7]

For saying something, I am evil, a birdshit farang who comes to Thailand to make it dirty? My American friend in Ubon says many people here think like this. I have never met any kind of person like this before in my life.

What took you so long?

Never experienced that before? Lucky you. One of the reasons, I better only listen, what they speak, as speaking Thai myself, is that even in reasonable (me) or excellent (friends) Thai, we as Farangs have no right, to tell 'em anything. Best thing, that happens, they open the 'hatch' between the two ears, to let the noise go away! Worst thing, it goes physical. or 9mm

Put some water bottles out there. And tell us, if this system is known it in your area, too.

Edited October 1, 2012 by noob7

[SlyAnimal]

Sounds like you didn't really choose your words very well.

Thai people are generally very polite, especially to strangers. You weren't polite.

Thai style is to avoid confrontation, you essentially confronted them and said something undeservedly bad to them, as what they did was very minor if they were only parked there for 10 minutes, and weren't very far away. What you said, was particularly bad if you decided to paint all Thai people with the same brush so to speak.

A better response, would have been to show your disappointment and frustration, without name calling. As there's no need for that, maybe just ask them politely to not park in front of your driveway again next time. They would clearly see how you feel from your body language etc, and would feel guilt towards you for the inconvenience caused. Alternatively of course, you could have yelled and screamed at them, then maybe everyone in the village would be too scared to talk to you or send you a letter lol.

As for the letter, how you've phrased it, it basically sounds like they're just calling you Farang Kiee Nok, which I'm sure you're familar with after living here for soo long. However if you don't know it's meaning, it's basically referencing to the fact that you might look very nice on the outside, but that upon closer inspection, you're not so good after all (From memory, it comes from the fruit Farang Kiee Nok, which is a type of guava, that looks very nice on the outside, but don't taste very nice).

If you take that into account, that they're not actually likening you to bird faeces, then the letter isn't quite as bad. You could write back if you want, but it's probably not worth it, you'd be better off admitting that you handled the situation badly and leaving it at that.

[Bung]

You may as well get used to it. Thais will park in the street blocking the road because they want to buy food from a food vendor or go to the 7/11. They will drive across two lanes as they cannot decide which lane they want to take or stop in the middle of he road to have a conversation with someone. And they will park across your gate. They never give it a second thought.

It was only 10 minutes, why are you in such a rush? You could have used the time while you were waiting for those two old ladies to buy food buy meditating or admiring the natural beauty of the soi or even popped into a nearby wat and made merit!

Farangs are always in such a rush! You are on holiday and don't work, take it easy!

Would you expect those poor women to find a parking space further away and made them walk in the heat?

I would have just squeezed my car in front of them and ambled inside, wait for them to strat to wail and reply politely that you can't seem to find my shoes, just one moment please!

[IsaanAussie]

To the OP, some things will never change. I am one of them and I am the result of my upbringing, something I am proud of. Does that mean I should not show any emotion when things that go against everything I was taught as a boy and a man? No not to me. Does it mean that I should accept that remorseless thieves, liars and backside lickers should be automatically forgiven? No not to me.

To me the skill I need to develop is to internalize a bit more before I open my mouth. It is just that these petty annoyances are so constant, they never seem to stop, are always so avoidable with a little thought for consequence. Maybe I should just live in and for the moment, no scoring, no faults, no regrets and to hell with everyone else. But I can't see that happening it just isn't me. Yet this is Thailand and the culture is entrenched, I need to learn how to accept that within my own values. For me, after 13 years here this still a challenge and I console myself by saying, "Just because it is different, doesn't mean it is wrong!"

[transam]

Put a plant pot each side of your gate. Job done.

We have a topic somewhere here on the plant pot mafia. ..................

[Payboy]

Good thing about having a pot plant is, you'll be too happy to notice such transgressions.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Payboy

[simple1]

Sounds like you didn't really choose your words very well.

Thai people are generally very polite, especially to strangers. You weren't polite.

Thai style is to avoid confrontation, you essentially confronted them and said something undeservedly bad to them, as what they did was very minor if they were only parked there for 10 minutes, and weren't very far away. What you said, was particularly bad if you decided to paint all Thai people with the same brush so to speak.

A better response, would have been to show your disappointment and frustration, without name calling. As there's no need for that, maybe just ask them politely to not park in front of your driveway again next time. They would clearly see how you feel from your body language etc, and would feel guilt towards you for the inconvenience caused. Alternatively of course, you could have yelled and screamed at them, then maybe everyone in the village would be too scared to talk to you or send you a letter lol.

As for the letter, how you've phrased it, it basically sounds like they're just calling you Farang Kiee Nok, which I'm sure you're familar with after living here for soo long. However if you don't know it's meaning, it's basically referencing to the fact that you might look very nice on the outside, but that upon closer inspection, you're not so good after all (From memory, it comes from the fruit Farang Kiee Nok, which is a type of guava, that looks very nice on the outside, but don't taste very nice).

If you take that into account, that they're not actually likening you to bird faeces, then the letter isn't quite as bad. You could write back if you want, but it's probably not worth it, you'd be better off admitting that you handled the situation badly and leaving it at that.

My Thai wife has always said "Farang Kiee Nok", means farang with no money, I guess if only paying small money you wouldn't taste so good

[bananabender]

Michael, you have misinterpreted this situation very badly. You are obviously a very hansum and charming falang man. One or both of those dear ladies definitely thinks so. I would suggest that the sole purpose of their parking in your driveway was to set up a meeting with you and hopefully some further assignation with you. The mild letter of rebuke you received ( who amongst us has not been called a kee nok falang?) was an act of passion, of love spurned.

You must repair the bridges and write a letter back to the lady begging forgiveness for your unspeakable rudeness. Who knows what a bountiful harvest you may reap? Cheers bb.

[JungleBiker]

I once parked a car in a street in Khon Kaen. I was not blocking any entrance and did not see any warning signs. After doing some shopping I came back to find both my front door locks had been injected with glue. Had to get two new locks fitted.

I can understand why Michael chose to feel annoyed by the ladies inconsiderate parking but one of the ladies did say sorry and as already pointed out by others it was not reasonable to say "you Thai people have no manners". The words "Thai people" should have been omitted; (obviously many Thai people do have manners, including Michael's son I assume). I am not claiming to be "holier than thou" - I once made a similar mistake in another forum when I referred to "the Chinese...". It was explained to me that I was guilty of "ethnic stereotyping" or some such term; similar to being racist. I was not being politically correct. Even now, I still sometimes find myself being politically incorrect.

I like Bananabender's reply - perhaps he's right!

JB

Edited October 2, 2012 by JungleBiker