Riverside Condo Problems

[dallasfw]

Rethinking this for 2 weeks. Feel ready now to post this on behalf of some frustrated owners representing many others at Riverside Condo in Chiang Mai. They are facing big problems yet again.

Riverside Condo is maybe known as Chiang Mai's “problem building”. A succession of bad management teams and bad committees over the past 10 years has put a heavy mortgage on its future. Friends in Chiang Mai tell me the saga continues.

Some years ago a European (the current chairman) bought, in the name of his wife, a very inexpensive room in this building at a public "Land Execute Department, LED" auction. Because of constrictive laws and the limitations of the room itself, however, he did not know what to do with it, and he tried to find a way out for himself at the expense of the other co-owners.

Last year he made a deal with the manager to sell this room to the community for a very high price. It was presented as a future Gym, to belong to all.

The manager needed one other signature apart from his own to buy that room (2 committee-members only were in function that time, out of 7 voted in). One committee-member refused to sign and immediately resigned because she found it was ethically and legally incorrect that a private unit was sold to a community of owners for such a high price without everyone's approval. Moreover, all the co-owners had to pay for this man's mistake in buying the room, and all the co-owners would have to invest to make a gym out of it– one that would only be used by a few people.

The committee member resigning stated that if someone wanted to open a gym he should do the investment and marketing himself as a private entrepreneur rather than forcing all those things onto the co-owners who were opposed to it. The European just wanted to make money out of it, and the gym was the rationale. Everyone thought the plans were cancelled.

Question:

Should the Condo buy the privately owned laundry shop? Some residents laundry there.

Should the Condo buy the privately owned restaurant? Some residents eat there?

Should the Condo buy the privately owned real estate agency? Some residents rent there?

Then why the Condo should buy a privately (chairman) owned room for the gym? There is more behind this !

Now the European has come back with the same proposals and the backing of yet another (new) committee. He forced himself into the position of chairman just to be able to control and sell his room. The committees are swarming like mosquitos at Riverside. The current committee consists of two (it was close to 3 !) ex- Riverside Condo managers (Thai ladies Ko., Ni., Wi.) who had been voted away in previous meetings for not being open to the co-owners or had to resign under heavy co-owners pressure– absolutely shameless. Of course, they and their relatives have their interest being close to the condo's savings. No more need be said. Last year, at the election of another new manager, the entire committee and chairman resigned because they could not bring themselves to associate with a manager who had a dubious history. To the suprise of all, he still got elected in an undoubtedly dubious manner, but the votes could never be counted to check! During the last meeting, Immigration was invited, and they managed to scare off all the foreigners prior to the meeting's opening.

Other proposals are now also on the table: new paint for the inside and outside of the building and covered parking, among other things. The chairman insists that everything depends on the gym; if he cannot sell his room, he has the power to cancel all the rest of the proposals as well, a friend told me! The building's residents can do nothing to vent their frustration or express their grievances because public discussion boards are consistently prohibited by the ever-changing managers and committees.

He/they want to obscure the real owner ( the chairman and his wife) at any cost, so many residents think the room belongs to the community already. The owners have been misinformed, as the room has to be bought by Riverside Condo first with money from the co-owners at a ridiculously high price. Then money from the co-owners would be needed to make the gym and buy the equipment.

I have friends living there but they're too scared to do anything. It is dangerous and I post this from a foreign country. The staff, committee, management and shop owners not quite respect the principles of fair play - to say the least.

What can be done to stop this nonsense?

Thank you.

[justcruisin]

Rather a large 1st Post. Welcome to T.V.

You have highlighted several quite a lot of problems in Riverside. I looked there quite some years ago and decided not to buy on account of no undercover parking.

Suggest you get familiar with the Condominium Act B.E 2552 I think it is, there is no way that the rogue schemes you have stated can get away with the games that appear to be played there.

There is no mention of a Juristic person who must be appointed to be the first point of contact with any legal entity or govt department. That is your main person to make sure that the building and management as well as committee comply with the laws. They should also be a barrier to prevent legal cases being brought against committee and individual owners.

The land office will require minutes of every meeting including committee decisions (in Thai).

They will not approve the minutes if they are in contravention of the Condo Act.

You also seem very misinformed about the power the Chairman has. The committee appoints a chairman who is the voice for the committee only, who in turn are a voice for the owners, nothing more nothing less.

It seems the owners have been too complacent for too many years and now the blood suckers and vultures are only interested in the building for one reason, to bleed out the quite considerable sinking fund dry!

[moe666]

What can be done, nothing if the owners do not stand up.

[Hillside4Phil]

Big problems again?

I am due to arrive in Chiang Mai in a weeks time and have been looking at Riverside as a place to rent and base myself.

With these issues does this mean that the place could be getting run down??

I really do not want to go to another place that has issues at managment levels where the day to day running could be imapcted

Will go and see the building for sure but have other rental condo's at other places to choose from

[stigvinck]

I am not going into the discussion of who is right and who is wrong at Riverside, but I have this remark:

All these accusations you are making (and they are quite serious and very specific imo) are based on what your friends tell you. And you are not even here.

If I was accused openly of fraud by someone who "heard this" and "was told that", then goes on TV, makes a new anonymous user name and uses his first post to do this, I would be quite p***sed off.

I would say your friends need to stand up and fight, if they think there is something wrong.

Using a third person who posts a rather vicious and personal attack on a web forum from "a foreign country" is not going to help anything, it's only going to upset the people you are attacking.

Stig

[NancyL]

This is is not a new building at all, yet it continues to be very well maintained, have a beautiful lobby, pool -- nice restaurant, handy laundry shop, etc. Somehow the place continues to run OK -- at least thru the eyes of a casual visitor and from reports I hear of people who are renting there. The only "complaint" I hear from renters is the poor building internet service (from people too cheap to invest in something like thier own AIS service) and the location makes it difficult to locate songthaews. That I think is a valid complaint. The tuk-tuks next door at the Holiday Inn know they have a "captive market" and charge accordingly.

If a potential renter has a motorcycle, it seems like an excellent building for renting.

This situation is yet another example of why it's not a good idea to invest more than you can afford to walk away from in Thailand.

Edited October 3, 2012 by NancyL

[rainyday]

Stigvinck quote : I would be quite p***sed off.

And I am p***sed off as I have a condo for sale there we still refurbishing.

However, definitely something going on. Last days I received two mails from people tired of the situation and in the "corridors" also not happy talking.

Hope someone (or group) can point to the right direction quickly.

[Hillside4Phil]

Nancy thanks for your post if helps me a lot

[CMX]

So far as I can understand, the issues raised (and by an unknown value as a contributor - apparently a Texan, however) must have nothing to do with renting there, as that contract would protect a renter from the economic issues, from time-frame to the next, when prices might rise.

Or do I mistake??

[stigvinck]

Big problems again?

I am due to arrive in Chiang Mai in a weeks time and have been looking at Riverside as a place to rent and base myself.

With these issues does this mean that the place could be getting run down??

I really do not want to go to another place that has issues at managment levels where the day to day running could be imapcted

Will go and see the building for sure but have other rental condo's at other places to choose from

Hi Phil

I know quite a few tenants in Riverside.

From our tenants, there is not one person that has complained about the building management. The discussions in Riverside between owners and manager do not really affect the tenants. Except maybe that some are waiting for the gym to open for a year now...

So don't worry if you want to rent there.

Stig

[Hillside4Phil]

thanks Stig for my lifestyle Riverside seems a good option, though walking to get a songthaew will be good for me.

[rainyday]

Big problems again?

I am due to arrive in Chiang Mai in a weeks time and have been looking at Riverside as a place to rent and base myself.

With these issues does this mean that the place could be getting run down??

I really do not want to go to another place that has issues at managment levels where the day to day running could be imapcted

Will go and see the building for sure but have other rental condo's at other places to choose from

Hi Phil,

No problems at all for you. You will have a good time.

The problems are apparently manager/committee versus owners about many issues but mainly the gym.

As so many, I am against it as well. Too costly for the owners to please a few. Manager/committee keeps on pushing for 1 year +.

[cheeryble]

Hello DallasFW

An extraordinary feat of generosity, to agonise how to represent some friends' gripes in a building 10,000 miles away, then take all to trouble to learn so very many little details and to write on their behalf!

A brief observation:

1 Like most others I have always found Riverside to be clean and well run and I know people who intend to live there all their lives so it must be OK and a quality hospital practically next door is a real trump card for some.

2. It is highly likely that large spendings over a certain amount, typically 100,000 baht, such as for your gym premises, need a general vote from 50%, if fails 33%, of owners. It is not a decision for the chairman, the juristic person, or the committee. You should check this.

3. Who says the proposed gym room is expensive? If there is cheaper space available why not propose it? Suppose the gym cost 1.5 or 2million all in. That would be ballpark a quarter percent of the owners total valuation which I'm guessing is maybe 800m฿. You think the tiny 1/4% wouldn't be more than reflected in the general attractiveness of the building in sales and rentals? (not pro or anti, just saying....) it may be true that most will not use a gym. That doesn't mean it is not worthwhile building to enhance the atmosphere and everyone's equity.

4. With new condos going up in CM the older buildings really need to kick themselves in the arse and do upgrades...... possibly like a gym. Older buildings have a great many advantages. At least Riverside residents, despite some committee aggro which is rather ubiquitous in condos, can see a history of a well kept well funded building in a great position with reasonable fees. Buy a new place and you can't know what will happen, except that your fees are much higher for some unfathomable reason. But the older ones need to strictly keep up maintenance AND appearance.

5. Old buildings will not "wear out". They will last forever if they are properly and systematically maintained. Do not skimp on this. Don't "spoil the ship for a halfpennyworth of tar".

6. The names you mentioned presumably own quite a few condos in Riverside. Presumably they have some degree of success. Why would they try to screw up their own building? Is it possible their ideas are better than yours?

ps

How's the weather in Dallas?

Edited October 3, 2012 by cheeryble

[Greenside]

Rather a large 1st Post. Welcome to T.V.

You have highlighted several quite a lot of problems in Riverside. I looked there quite some years ago and decided not to buy on account of no undercover parking.

Suggest you get familiar with the Condominium Act B.E 2552 I think it is, there is no way that the rogue schemes you have stated can get away with the games that appear to be played there.

There is no mention of a Juristic person who must be appointed to be the first point of contact with any legal entity or govt department. That is your main person to make sure that the building and management as well as committee comply with the laws. They should also be a barrier to prevent legal cases being brought against committee and individual owners.

The land office will require minutes of every meeting including committee decisions (in Thai).

They will not approve the minutes if they are in contravention of the Condo Act.

You also seem very misinformed about the power the Chairman has. The committee appoints a chairman who is the voice for the committee only, who in turn are a voice for the owners, nothing more nothing less.

It seems the owners have been too complacent for too many years and now the blood suckers and vultures are only interested in the building for one reason, to bleed out the quite considerable sinking fund dry!

Putting your faith in the Condo Act is naive or at best rather premature. I have no connection with Riverside but can tell you from other cases that I know of that the law finds itself unable to deal with even glaringly simple contraventions of the Act which was needed to reduce the malpractice found in many condo buildings. For example, one might think that (an improperly elected by all accounts) Juristic Person/Manager would find it hard to get away with not holding committee or Co-Owners' meetings, or posting accounts for more than three years but, despite a criminal case filed by the local Land Office more than six months ago, he continues in his position and appears irremovable.

By and large, Condos are built by people with plenty of money and powerful friends and the other half of that equation in this country is they are pretty much above the law and will disregard the interests of co-owners and anyone else that stands in the way of their plans.

[HappyInCM]

This is is not a new building at all, yet it continues to be very well maintained, have a beautiful lobby, pool -- nice restaurant, handy laundry shop, etc. Somehow the place continues to run OK -- at least thru the eyes of a casual visitor and from reports I hear of people who are renting there. The only "complaint" I hear from renters is the poor building internet service (from people too cheap to invest in something like thier own AIS service) and the location makes it difficult to locate songthaews. That I think is a valid complaint. The tuk-tuks next door at the Holiday Inn know they have a "captive market" and charge accordingly.

If a potential renter has a motorcycle, it seems like an excellent building for renting.

This situation is yet another example of why it's not a good idea to invest more than you can afford to walk away from in Thailand.

Very well maintained? Maybe well maintained compared to other buildings. The only building that is very well maintained and looks new in Chiang Mai (that isn't new) is Floral that I've seen (but there could be others).

Riverside by European or North American standards looks run down as do most of the "old" buildings in Thailand.

[Mestizo]

So far as I can understand, the issues raised (and by an unknown value as a contributor - apparently a Texan, however) must have nothing to do with renting there, as that contract would protect a renter from the economic issues, from time-frame to the next, when prices might rise.

Or do I mistake??

I lived as a renter in Riverside during the last round of big problems a couple years back. It *DID* affect the renters. Seemingly endless giant meetings in the lobby of all the owners and the committee shouting and arguing with each other. Not really what you want to come home to, after a long day at the office.

No available parking every time they decided to have their "emergency" meetings.

Issues with finances led to staff not being paid for extended periods of time. The staff became understandably irritable/ un-helpful / un-friendly towards tenants.

Issues with the finances also led to the covered motorbike parking area never being built.

So, yeah, the issues DO affect the renters in this building. And from first-hand experience, if they are "fighting" again, I would advise people to avoid renting here for the time being. This committee/ owner infighting is what prompted me to not renew my lease and move to another building.

Hope this helps.

From another Texan (as that's apparently important to you),

-Mestizo

[Rancid]

I have commented on the stench of Riverside before, and still maintain that it is a cesspit, one of the worst in CM, maybe even Thailand. I do not own any property there but know many that do and other sources. Many owners really have no clue of the power struggles that have gone on and continue, and anyone with an IQ above a gnat should be able to figure out what they are all fighting about, I'll give a hint...money, lots of it. Perhaps owners just really don't get how much a manager or committee could make if corrupt, here are just a few some examples but of course none are real life:

Any improvements to the building...kickbacks.

Insurance fees, accounting fees, phantom staff...kickbacks.

Controlling reception...kickbacks on rentals and sales.

Repossessing condos for not paying fees and organising private auctions where you or friends buy at way below market value. Then you sell through reception at grossly inflated prices as the only avaialble units.

Funds just complteely disapperring as no external audit has ever been allowed, none ever.

Rental and sales commissions, electricity overcharges...

That building had numerous upgrades passed at the GM years ago, and yet none have been allowed to happened, now why would that be as they have B20M+ in cash?

I hear that the guy that owns the gym also owns the sauna, and that he bought them as part of a package with many condos from the bank (only certain people with connections can buy quality from the bank, unlike the crap they put on notice boards), most of which he already sold and did quite nicely from. He hasn't offloaded them to the building as he is after way too much money, if the price was reasonable the building would have bought long ago. He was also involved with overthrowing a previous commitee, which enabled the old guard that had robbed the building for years to return by defacto.

Ah the old guard, owners selling and leaving in disgust after having been given the treatment (no mail, electricity cut, forced entry on BS causes). It is said the old manager accumulated 50 condos there without the wealth to show how, even that some condos bought by foreigners were put in that managers name as they couldn't read the documents at the land office. Meetings apparently are loaded with screaming shills from the old guard to force their way back, even without a legal quorum rules and committeee changes are passed.

One farang that offerred to moderate at such meeting apparently to calm things down was paid very well for his efforts to arrange a committee change. The old committee used to be paid 50K bonuses from the manager to vote things the right way, also many members had multiple condos there, the only ones reception ever showed to inquiries.

The JP used to be the Managers sister, and was flown up from Bangkok first class and put up at the 5 star hotel next door, of course no possible conflict on interest there, eh? Plenty more to this but I'd have to write a book, magine how much the insiders actually know?

So the lobby is clean, does that justify having your maintenence payments used fraudulently or stolen, with no significant improvement to the building that would increase your property values, despite the fact that all those improvements were approved years ago? As I said most owners have no idea what is going on around them. a microcosm of Thailand if you will.

To our local real estate sponsor: stick your nose into this place if you really want to understand Thai real estate. You will learn a lot and that knowledge about Riverside and other similar places will be useful to your customers. They will appreciate it and see value in your fees, become the person that can steer people into the right properties...just a thought anyway.

[slapout]

This type of story has been repeated many times with many different twists, in CM, not just for condos but also moo bans as well. Sales pitches, mantiance of facilities, promises of things to come, improvement, etc are in many cases made, with no intention of follow thru. If there is any sum of money involved, someone is going to try to get the lions share of it in his/her pocket.

Most of us have observed how the legal system works, in regard to numerous illegal activities, by those with connections and those without. As one has mentioned, if you cannot afford to walk away from it, do not buy it.

An old timer to this part of the world, is remembered as saying, 'doing business here is like dealing with the carnies and their games of chance, except carnies left town after a few days. These people have been here for several generations and plan on staying'

[cbrer]

Interesting.

People who adhere to my advice don't have many problems here.

Rent in Thailand, do not buy.

Perhaps give this piece of advice to 'your friends'.

[binjalin]

Riverside:

everyone knows:

*poor management

*poor parking

*poor location

*poor flood defenses

old

decrepit

and full of moaning old expats!

buy there? you gotta be kiddin - rent there? WHY? there are loads of better choices

he still got elected in an undoubtedly dubious manner you can thank the wonderful 'European' Chair of the meeting for that one - what an idiot

Edited October 3, 2012 by binjalin

[binjalin]

This is is not a new building at all, yet it continues to be very well maintained, have a beautiful lobby, pool -- nice restaurant, handy laundry shop, etc. Somehow the place continues to run OK -- at least thru the eyes of a casual visitor and from reports I hear of people who are renting there. The only "complaint" I hear from renters is the poor building internet service (from people too cheap to invest in something like thier own AIS service) and the location makes it difficult to locate songthaews. That I think is a valid complaint. The tuk-tuks next door at the Holiday Inn know they have a "captive market" and charge accordingly.

If a potential renter has a motorcycle, it seems like an excellent building for renting.

This situation is yet another example of why it's not a good idea to invest more than you can afford to walk away from in Thailand.

Very well maintained? Maybe well maintained compared to other buildings. The only building that is very well maintained and looks new in Chiang Mai (that isn't new) is Floral that I've seen (but there could be others).

Riverside by European or North American standards looks run down as do most of the "old" buildings in Thailand.

The problem is it's all about the 'developers' - they set low 'common area' fees to sell their units and this makes problems later as there is not enough money to maintain the building and subsequent owners have to fight to get this raised against, mostly, Thai apathy and 'mai pen rai' (I don't care) attitudes. Largely it is ONLY farang who try to do something and I have never, ever heard of Thais spearheading campaigns to put this right. A small smattering of Thais might be involved but this is very much the exception.

[hellodolly]

This is is not a new building at all, yet it continues to be very well maintained, have a beautiful lobby, pool -- nice restaurant, handy laundry shop, etc. Somehow the place continues to run OK -- at least thru the eyes of a casual visitor and from reports I hear of people who are renting there. The only "complaint" I hear from renters is the poor building internet service (from people too cheap to invest in something like thier own AIS service) and the location makes it difficult to locate songthaews. That I think is a valid complaint. The tuk-tuks next door at the Holiday Inn know they have a "captive market" and charge accordingly.

If a potential renter has a motorcycle, it seems like an excellent building for renting.

This situation is yet another example of why it's not a good idea to invest more than you can afford to walk away from in Thailand.

What you say is true Nancy. But you are talking about renters and the OP is talking about owners. I have owned my own home rented and owned a rental. Believe me when I tell you there is a big difference between owning and renting. My advise to the OP would to reread and check out post #2 by justcruisin.

As for opinions I think the lobby sucks.

Edited October 3, 2012 by hellodolly

[hellodolly]

Hello DallasFW

An extraordinary feat of generosity, to agonise how to represent some friends' gripes in a building 10,000 miles away, then take all to trouble to learn so very many little details and to write on their behalf!

A brief observation:

1 Like most others I have always found Riverside to be clean and well run and I know people who intend to live there all their lives so it must be OK and a quality hospital practically next door is a real trump card for some.

2. It is highly likely that large spendings over a certain amount, typically 100,000 baht, such as for your gym premises, need a general vote from 50%, if fails 33%, of owners. It is not a decision for the chairman, the juristic person, or the committee. You should check this.

3. Who says the proposed gym room is expensive? If there is cheaper space available why not propose it? Suppose the gym cost 1.5 or 2million all in. That would be ballpark a quarter percent of the owners total valuation which I'm guessing is maybe 800m฿. You think the tiny 1/4% wouldn't be more than reflected in the general attractiveness of the building in sales and rentals? (not pro or anti, just saying....) it may be true that most will not use a gym. That doesn't mean it is not worthwhile building to enhance the atmosphere and everyone's equity.

4. With new condos going up in CM the older buildings really need to kick themselves in the arse and do upgrades...... possibly like a gym. Older buildings have a great many advantages. At least Riverside residents, despite some committee aggro which is rather ubiquitous in condos, can see a history of a well kept well funded building in a great position with reasonable fees. Buy a new place and you can't know what will happen, except that your fees are much higher for some unfathomable reason. But the older ones need to strictly keep up maintenance AND appearance.

5. Old buildings will not "wear out". They will last forever if they are properly and systematically maintained. Do not skimp on this. Don't "spoil the ship for a halfpennyworth of tar".

6. The names you mentioned presumably own quite a few condos in Riverside. Presumably they have some degree of success. Why would they try to screw up their own building? Is it possible their ideas are better than yours?

ps

How's the weather in Dallas?

I like your post and would like to add one other attraction. Just around the corner across the street from a very good hospital is the Holiday Inn where during the day time they have a free songhtell to the Airport Mall and a return trip. It is sponsored by the Airport mall where if you are still into western foods they have a Tops store. Also a good mvie theatr

The lobby still sucks

[rainyday]

I do not want to get involved in this but it is like I am been pushed into it.

Below a letter forwarded to me and in line with the OP's post. The letter was mailed to all committee members and to the manager.

"Message from Mr. M, co-owner units ... / ...

To the members of the Committee and the Manager of Riverside Condominium, Chiang Mai

Dear Committee members,

I have been informed that an EGM is scheduled on November 11th, 2012, and that the question of the fitness room will again be discussed.

I remember that the last time this issue was at the agenda of an EGM (on December 2011), a large majority of co-owners did not approve the project of purchasing or hiring the rooms proposed for the fitness room. It was clear that some others expenses were, for many co-owners, more urgent and that the priority was for others projects, (for example: covering of the motor-cycle parking, problem of the pigeons, making better the equipment of the swimming pool, painting of the building…)

I am surprised that the question of the fitness comes back on the table before all these projects (some of them have already been approved by previous General Meetings), are realized.

In this context, I would like to point out that the EGM of November 11th,2012, must respect rigorously some modalities: members of the Committee cannot hold proxies; the maximum number of proxies is 3 per present co-owner; when the meeting will begin, the list of present co-owners as well as the list of officially valid proxies should be clearly announced and written on a board, or distributed to all the participants, in order to know exactly if the necessary quorums are reached or not; the persons (and proxies) coming or leaving during the meeting should be precisely registered, as quorum conditions may change;…

I think that you can understand that for a such important topic, aiming to change once more the priorities and the decisions taken in previous General Meetings, it is absolutely necessary that transparency and total respect of internal regulation of our Condo are respected.

Best regards,

M"

Poor "M" will of course never get a reply just as I never got an answer from the committee or the manager to my mails to them.

OP's question was: what can be done?

[Greenside]

Well, what could be done is that the Land Office could have a member of their staff attend meetings to see that they are conducted in accordance with the law. The duty should be rotated frequently to prevent the development of cosy relationships and the cost of doing this would be more than offset by the savings made in not having to argue about the legitimacy of AGMs and EGMs many of which are presently declared void on a technicality raised by whichever party feels it didn't get its own way.

Proxies, vote counting, the sending of invitations and notices and more are all subject to being challenged. I know of a case where the management refused to give co-owners who legitimately wanted to call an EGM, the most up to date list of addresses. On the advice of the Land Office, notice of the meeting was sent to the last known addresses (what other choice was there?) and within days of the meeting the management lodged an objection and had the meeting declared void.

I realise that this doesn't quite answer the OP's question but readers not involved the Riverside intrigue should be made aware of the all too common issues that plague condo owners. It's touted as a safe way to own your own home here but given that foreign ownership is limited to 49% and most Thais seem apathetic in the face of even the most flagrant abuse by management, the odds are stacked against you from the start. Add to that the scare tactics involving immigration, the tax department and even policemen brought in to hang menacingly around by the registration desk at meetings and you can see it's no fun.

Whatever you do, if you are buying into a condo don't take the word of vendor, agent or management that all is sweet and light.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Greenside

[Hillside4Phil]

What can be done?

Yes but the to and fro in the posts here how will that help? as I would think not all the replies are from condo owner's

Bringing the Riverside issues into a forum like this, who will gain benifit from it??

I am sure when I get to view some rental places on Saturday, I will not be told of any of what is posted such as the op, I will not bring it up as i know the answer already.

Lucky I have condo's in other buildings to view also.

But to the Riverside, who will gain benifit?, What will ever be done?

I have been on government and private committee's in the past, arguing and backstabbing etc will gain nobody anything, only lack of attention to the building etc, I may be wrong and I am no expert, someone who is starting and continuing his Thai education, I am a newbie, some will say what do I know?

[CMX]

I'm having a good deal of difficulty following the direction of this discussion.

Who among us (who have lived in the Orient for some while) is unaware that we are second class citizens here, that the exchange of monies and favors behind the scenes is a regular aspect of life (with which Thais must live too), that money talks loudest (having enough to hire well placed expensive licensed lawyers, for example) and that those are simply compromises with which we must work, overall, to benefit from the overall positive aspects of life here?

In many if not most ways my homeland is not far different, as money talks very loudly indeed, and our Western Press is not permitted in the secret councils of decision-makers. Might be a matter of degree. Our take charge notions are not blunted by mai bpen rai, but we do after all have so it goes - and it is what it is.

Buy a condo, buy its world.

[hellodolly]

I'm having a good deal of difficulty following the direction of this discussion.

Who among us (who have lived in the Orient for some while) is unaware that we are second class citizens here, that the exchange of monies and favors behind the scenes is a regular aspect of life (with which Thais must live too), that money talks loudest (having enough to hire well placed expensive licensed lawyers, for example) and that those are simply compromises with which we must work, overall, to benefit from the overall positive aspects of life here?

In many if not most ways my homeland is not far different, as money talks very loudly indeed, and our Western Press is not permitted in the secret councils of decision-makers. Might be a matter of degree. Our take charge notions are not blunted by mai bpen rai, but we do after all have so it goes - and it is what it is.

Buy a condo, buy its world.

Good post

Yes money is the name of the game in most countries. More so in the Western world where Materialistic things count for every one except the street people. Every thing is built to be disposable so they can keep on buying them.

Here in Thailand it is important but not near as much for the majority of Thais as it is for the Majority of westerners. Here it is mainly the businessman and the politicians. Many of the average Thais are happy with what many in the western world would turn their nose up at.

JMO

[wanttobuyacondo]

Latest on this:

KrungThai Bank owns a lot of condo's and business units at Riverside (never sold or repossessed).

It is said that they never pay the yearly condo fees on those units. Impossible to check as the manager doesn't want to show/open the books.

It is, however, a fact those units were used as proxys by the management and comittee in recent General Meetings.

If this is true voting results over the last meetings could be void I guess as it is against the constitution.

Rancid seems to know a lot. Can you check or confirm please?

[NormanChomsky]

thanks for reminding me never to buy and rent only!