Karon Roadblock - Eu Driving License Wasn't Enough

[stevenl]

Nope, you don't get it!

If your 'path' would be true, no one under 18 could drive a motorcycle, here!

Before 18, you have a limited motorcycle license!

Age has nothing to do with the general rule: to ride a motorbike in Thailand you need a motorbike license. A home license with endorsement of bikes up to e.g. 125 cc does not legalise driving of a motorbike in Thailand of any cc.

But if you find it enough for you then good luck with it.

Edited October 12, 2012 by stevenl

[KarenBravo]

Nope, you don't get it!

If your 'path' would be true, no one under 18 could drive a motorcycle, here!

Before 18, you have a limited motorcycle license!

Sorry, you're wrong. In Thailand a bike license and a car license are separate entities. No matter what your Western country license allows you to drive, you must have a separate license for each vehicle in Thailand.

Crazy, yes, but, that's how it is.

[noob7]

Nope, you don't get it!

If your 'path' would be true, no one under 18 could drive a motorcycle, here!

Before 18, you have a limited motorcycle license!

Sorry, you're wrong. In Thailand a bike license and a car license are separate entities. No matter what your Western country license allows you to drive, you must have a separate license for each vehicle in Thailand.

Crazy, yes, but, that's how it is.

Interesting. Are we talking about the same non Thai licenses?

Don't confuse it, because you get two licenses, in Thailand. Maybe you got two, in Europe, if you did one after the other one. But at least, asking for the 'newest' version, everything comes together!

And:

Thailand is accepting western driving licenses in English,at least together with an IDP.

But if this one would show motorcycle and car on the same license (imho: like almost all do), it is neither valid for motorcycle or for car?

Think that trough, please!

It looks like, some people here don't understand, that even a limited motorcycle license, issued by a country, Thailand is legally recognizing driving licenses from, is a valid one. As long the motorcycles is in the limits of the home countries licence, there is no legal way, they can't accept it.

The BiB's are trying to get tea money, is another thing.You're paying it, somnamna!

But even here on Phuket, known for being the place, a lot of tea money is requested, friends of mine, with only the 'one paper shows all licenses' (motorcycle, car, truck, bus,...., and no other licenses available in their countries!) didn't get in trouble with the BiB's. As long it says, you can drive, what you are driving, they looking for other things. Maybe they play the "passport?" card, instead. Or 'ok, so now we have to charge for no helmet for the pillion'

But anyway, you mostly can't convince believers. Common sense is not the best asset in Thailand, sometimes too!

Also the Topic 's about having a license, but not for the vehicle, driven into that road block.

I actually don't wonder about, that they ask him, to get a temporary day license. And that they issued this to him at the check point, for a small fee!

So how comes, we're arguing about 'you need two licenses, in Thailand, for motorcycle and car' (rubbish, anyway ), in the first place?

[KarenBravo]

Whatever..........

[NomadJoe]

Congratulations. You are the...

-Nomad Joe-

My sons, I have 5, see that different, think, I am the -BEST DAD-, So for me is their opinion more important.

And for the Rest-

I drive since 35 years Big Sport Bikes,

I have the opinion,

that any child is more secure on my pillion, than all the other children, you see in Isaan and the Highways there

on the loading area of the many Pick Ups.

During an emergency breaking, that children and people, sitting on the loading area, can easy get injured, even can be catapulted down from the car.

Do not even think in a case of an accident!

I hope you are man enough and go there and speak with the driver about his irresponsibility

And, hand him over your -trophy- with -World's worst dad- in Thai writing, -พ่อที่เลวร้ายที่สุดของโลก-

They probably don't run from police on a motorcycle with their 5 year old son riding pillion. You would be jailed for a long time for that back home. Comparing your actions to those of parents in this country doesn't really improve your position.

[ALFREDO]

You would be jailed for a long time for that back home.

Not in my country! Maybe in yours, the USA, I presume.

[petercallen]

You would be jailed for a long time for that back home.

Not in my country! Maybe in yours, the USA, I presume.

You do not see children on motorbikes in Australia either, you must wear a helmet and none are manufactured for children

Who in there right mind would take a child on a motorbike even here if they could afford a car or pickup

[simple1]

If you have an accident most insurance companies will not pay up if your driving license is incorrect. It might not be your fault but you could still be held liable. A child ran in front of a friends car and was killed. He had no valid driving license and he had to cough up 2 million baht to the child's family or go to jail.

Was your friend Thai or Farang?.I ask this because of the 2 million baht, we hear so many cases of the Thai driver who is in the wrong,having to pay compensation of 2-300,000 for causing a death.

I had a Thai family member killed by a Westerner driving an SUV who was licensed, but was at fault. Negotiated compensation by the police on behalf of the family, including funeral costs, was 350,000 baht. The family is poor. However the family could have declined the compensation offer & proceeded with a Police & Civil Case. If they had gone down that path would probably have received around 2m baht and most likely a prison sentence for the offender, but would have taken up to a year to finalise proceeding. In the meantime the foreigner would not have been able to depart Thailand as his passport would be on a stop list with Thai immigration and the embassy notified so that he could not claim to have lost and request a new passport.

For foreigners, the Thai culture of compensation as opposed to the victim's family desiring jail time for offenders is 'luckily" on their side.

Edited October 13, 2012 by simple1

[stevenl]

So how comes, we're arguing about 'you need two licenses, in Thailand, for motorcycle and car' (rubbish, anyway ), in the first place?

Nobody is claiming you need two physical licenses. What I am claiming is: you need a motorbike license to ride a motorbike here, a car license to drive a car here. Whether these licenses are on 1 or 2 papers is not important, whether they are from back home or Thai is important but not in this discussion. Plus what I am claiming, and there you seem to disagree, is that to ride a motorbike here up to 125 cc one needs a full motorbike license, an endorsement of a car license (also valid for motorbikes up to 125 cc) is not enough.

[petercallen]

So how comes, we're arguing about 'you need two licenses, in Thailand, for motorcycle and car' (rubbish, anyway ), in the first place?

Nobody is claiming you need two physical licenses. What I am claiming is: you need a motorbike license to ride a motorbike here, a car license to drive a car here. Whether these licenses are on 1 or 2 papers is not important, whether they are from back home or Thai is important but not in this discussion. Plus what I am claiming, and there you seem to disagree, is that to ride a motorbike here up to 125 cc one needs a full motorbike license, an endorsement of a car license (also valid for motorbikes up to 125 cc) is not enough.

SL to have a endorsement of a license you must do a separate driving test for that endorsement truck, car and bike are all on the same license and you have to pass separate driving tests for each and they are added to the one license but not here

[noob7]

So how comes, we're arguing about 'you need two licenses, in Thailand, for motorcycle and car' (rubbish, anyway ), in the first place?

Nobody is claiming you need two physical licenses. What I am claiming is: you need a motorbike license to ride a motorbike here, a car license to drive a car here. Whether these licenses are on 1 or 2 papers is not important, whether they are from back home or Thai is important but not in this discussion. Plus what I am claiming, and there you seem to disagree, is that to ride a motorbike here up to 125 cc one needs a full motorbike license, an endorsement of a car license (also valid for motorbikes up to 125 cc) is not enough.

Still interesting.

Why you think, the BiB accept a car driving license (, but don't accept the Motorcycle license (A1), on the same page?

You can try to tell that to the youngsters, with limited 'you have no permission, till' licenses, that they better not rent motorcycles in Thailand, till they have the 'full' license.

http://www.bmf.co.uk/upload/documents/1196679553_3rd_european_directive.pdf

The A1 license in the European driving license has to be accepted. Its is a legal license in Europe, and Thai authorities accept European licenses. And it doesn't matters, how you got it. It matters, that you have it. A valid 'up to a 125cc' license, good for every scooter </=125cc..

[stevenl]

Why you think, the BiB accept a car driving license (, but don't accept the Motorcycle license (A1), on the same page?

As mentioned earlier, I'm not talking about the BIB but about legally valid.

You can try to tell that to the youngsters, with limited 'you have no permission, till' licenses, that they better not rent motorcycles in Thailand, till they have the 'full' license.

Hmm, what have I been writing here?

The A1 license in the European driving license has to be accepted. Its is a legal license in Europe, and Thai authorities accept European licenses. And it doesn't matters, how you got it. It matters, that you have it. A valid 'up to a 125cc' license, good for every scooter </=125cc..

Since Thailand requires a different license than the one you mention, not, it has not to be accepted. As you may know, different countries can have different rules.

[petercallen]

IN Western Australia you can only drive a moped up to 50cc on a car license

Bigger bikes if you are new at it you can do a riding test and if you pass ride bikes up to 250cc

After 2 years you can do another test and ride bikes with any size engine

This is a added license on your vehicle license and is valid anywhere

I have a heavy vehicle license with a open bike license, it does not mention cars pickups etc because if

you are licensed to drive a truck/lorry towing a separate trailer up to 9 Tonne you are automatically

allowed to drive anything smaller

Are there any other countries where you need a separate license for each type of vehicle you are qualified to drive?

[NomadJoe]

You would be jailed for a long time for that back home.

Not in my country! Maybe in yours, the USA, I presume.

US, UK, Canada, Australia, EU countries etc etc. Where are you from?

[NomadJoe]

IDP's aren't required in Thailand anyway, as evidenced by the fact that you did not get a ticket for not having one.

That is partially true depending on the 1949 UN convention signatories and specific countries.

Completely true for these countries, all contracting states:

Albania...

<snip>

http://www.unece.org...RSS_RT1949.html

I tried to find what this document is actually in reference to - without luck. I'm surprised by all these comments about no IDP being required, since I've always been told one is required (and used to get them myself, prior to getting Thai licences). And if you look on the (Australian) IDP itself, it lists countries for which it is valid - including Thailand.

It's referencing exactly what it says, the UN Geneva Convention on Road Traffic of 1949, which is the only relevant treaty Thailand is a part of. The text of the treaty can be found at multiple locations onilne, including here: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1955/2.html but I have put the relevent part below.

CHAPTER V

DRIVERS OF MOTOR VEHICLES IN INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC

Article 24

1. Each Contracting State* shall allow any driver admitted to its territory who fulfills the conditions which are set out in Annex 8** and who holds a valid driving permit issued to him, after he has given proof of his competence, by the competent authority of another Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by an Association duly empowered by such authority, to drive on its roads without further examination motor vehicles of the category or categories defined in Annexes 9 and 10 for which the permit has been issued.

2. A Contracting State may however require that any driver admitted to its territory shall carry an international driving permit conforming to the model contained in Annex 10, especially in the case of a driver coming from a country where a domestic driving permit is not required or where the domestic permit issued to him does not conform to the model contained in Annex 9***.

* Thailand is a contracting state, as they became a party via accession on 15 Aug, 1962.

** Annex 8 references required age of drivers.

*** Annex 9 describes the size of domestic driving permit (driver’s license) colour, size, English language, photo size, etc.

Notice in paragraph 2 the word "may" in bold as well as the bit after "especially...". I added the *'s so people don't have to look them up. It's crystal clear that the treaty does not require contracting states to require an IDP.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1955/2.html

http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/legalinst_07_RTRSS_RT1949.html

Motoring Act of 1979, Title 3 Section 42. It clearly states that if there is mutual acceptance of licenses through treaty (i.e. the treaty above) then "an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government". Note that your home country and Thailand must have a treaty on mutual licenses. Most do.

Thai Motoring Act of 1979

Title 3: Driver's License

Section 42

Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver's license. The driver must carry the driver's license and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request. This does not apply for those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.

If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license specified in the Section 42-2. In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver's license, and show them to competent officers upon request.

Section 42-2

In case there's a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver's license, an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government.

Thai Motoring Act of 1979: http://upload.manyfile.com/get.php?8e1fd7c6c6dc507548c53cb685a96fc9,3

Unofficial English Translation: http://www.bkkriders.com/law/motorvehicle.html

[ALFREDO]

You would be jailed for a long time for that back home.

Not in my country! Maybe in yours, the USA, I presume.

You do not see children on motorbikes in Australia either, you must wear a helmet and none are manufactured for children

Who in there right mind would take a child on a motorbike even here if they could afford a car or pickup

Who cares Australia?

But "Casey Stoner", will soon drive with his child in retirement on motorized two wheels, I think!

Who says that there are no Helmets for children?

Do you not see all over the world Race classes for children Cross-Motorbikes and Go Carts!

My sons have helmets for children or small Thai women, my Ex GF helmet, fits already my 8 year young!

In Thailand 12 years old drive to school with motorbikes and

you want to start a crusade for a pillion ride with an experienced (35 Years of extensive driving)? Ha, ha, ha.

Pick Ups?

Yeah sure, more secure to let the youngsters sit on the loading area of the Pick Ups as it is widely spread here in Thailand!

Something can happen! Me on the handlebars of my Motorbike, more secure for sure!

Edited October 13, 2012 by ALFREDO

[NomadJoe]

^

[ALFREDO]

You would be jailed for a long time for that back home.

Not in my country! Maybe in yours, the USA, I presume.

US, UK, Canada, Australia, EU countries etc etc. Where are you from?

Really, ha, ha. How do you know that from such a big spectrum of countries? You have a LINK?

I am from North Korea, and know Mr.Kim Jong-un. So, see above, "Not in my country! "

[ALFREDO]

^

Means, you party today and you are drunk? Yeah, sure better not post intoxicated, under the influence! Good idea.

[petercallen]

You would be jailed for a long time for that back home.

Not in my country! Maybe in yours, the USA, I presume.

You do not see children on motorbikes in Australia either, you must wear a helmet and none are manufactured for children

Who in there right mind would take a child on a motorbike even here if they could afford a car or pickup

Who cares Australia?

But "Casey Stoner", will soon drive with his child in retirement on motorized two wheels, I think!

Who says that there are no Helmets for children?

Do you not see all over the world Race classes for children Cross-Motorbikes and Go Carts!

My sons have helmets for children or small Thai women, my Ex GF helmet, fits already my 8 year young!

In Thailand 12 years old drive to school with motorbikes and

you want to start a crusade for a pillion ride with an experienced (35 Years of extensive driving)? Ha, ha, ha.

Pick Ups?

Yeah sure, more secure to let the youngsters sit on the loading area of the Pick Ups as it is widely spread here in Thailand!

Something can happen! Me on the handlebars of my Motorbike, more secure for sure!

Who said anything about riding in the back of a pickup being safe, its not, but safer for children than riding as a passenger on a motorbike, pickups have cabs thats where normal sane people put there children, let the udult bike riders sit in the back

[stevenl]

Alfredo is correct in that it is possible to buy good quality helmets for children here.

[petercallen]

Alfredo is correct in that it is possible to buy good quality helmets for children here.

Who said you could not SL but how many children do you see wearing them and how many adults buy them for thier children

Edited October 14, 2012 by petercallen

[stevenl]

Alfredo is correct in that it is possible to buy good quality helmets for children here.

Who said you could not SL but how many children do you see wearing them and how many adults buy them for thier children

You did in post #97:

You do not see children on motorbikes in Australia either, you must wear a helmet and none are manufactured for children

Who in there right mind would take a child on a motorbike even here if they could afford a car or pickup

[petercallen]

Alfredo is correct in that it is possible to buy good quality helmets for children here.

Who said you could not SL but how many children do you see wearing them and how many adults buy them for their children

You did in post #97:

You do not see children on motorbikes in Australia either, you must wear a helmet and none are manufactured for children

Who in there right mind would take a child on a motorbike even here if they could afford a car or pickup

SL i have never seen young children or baby's on motorbikes in Australia

and i have never seen children's helmets for sale there except for bicycles

The last time we were there we went to catch a train at the Bullcreek station

300 parking bays for cars all full, 3 parking bays for bikes 2 empty

Not many people buy bikes in Australia, young people buy a secondhand car or a new one if they or there parents can afford it

All the Thai people we know have a car or pickup as well as a bike which is generally only used to go to the local shop etc, they use there vehicle to transport there children

I have seen a few middle aged expats riding a bike with their young Thai partner and a baby under 12 months old tied into a cane chair on a Honda wave,Even the slightest accident like slipping on oil on the road and the baby would be seriously injured or dead.

absolutely stupid people as far as i am concerned, they may come from the Netherlands who knows

[KarenBravo]

You can buy children's size motorbike helmets here in Phuket.

[stevenl]

Who said you could not SL but how many children do you see wearing them and how many adults buy them for their children

You did in post #97:

You do not see children on motorbikes in Australia either, you must wear a helmet and none are manufactured for children

Who in there right mind would take a child on a motorbike even here if they could afford a car or pickup

SL i have never seen young children or baby's on motorbikes in Australia

and i have never seen children's helmets for sale there except for bicycles

The last time we were there we went to catch a train at the Bullcreek station

300 parking bays for cars all full, 3 parking bays for bikes 2 empty

Not many people buy bikes in Australia, young people buy a secondhand car or a new one if they or there parents can afford it

All the Thai people we know have a car or pickup as well as a bike which is generally only used to go to the local shop etc, they use there vehicle to transport there children

I have seen a few middle aged expats riding a bike with their young Thai partner and a baby under 12 months old tied into a cane chair on a Honda wave,Even the slightest accident like slipping on oil on the road and the baby would be seriously injured or dead.

absolutely stupid people as far as i am concerned, they may come from the Netherlands who knows

Anything at all to do with your claim that children helmets are not manufactured?

[petercallen]

SL when did i post on this forum that children's helmets were not manufactured

Get your facts straight sport

I know they are available here but not as far as i know in Australia

I do not think children are allowed to ride on motorbikes there

Looking forward to meeting you at the TV get together, i would love to have a public debate with you

Edited October 14, 2012 by petercallen

[grumpyoldman]

About a year ago on Chaofa Rd. from Phuket town toward Chalong circle here comes goofus-dufus on motorbike. He has a helmet, 3-4 year old son seated in front of him does not.

The guy is weaving in and out, going in the oncoming when cars clearly coming, at one point when traffic is stopped at the circle, pulls behind a truck with swinging doors (driver forgot to latch) and as the truck takes off, door swings open just about decapitates dummy Dad.

No offense to the Brits here, but when I pulled up along side the guy and said "hey pal, quite alright you kill yourself riding like an idiot, but not fair to the boy", he responded in accent directly out of Monty Python, "shut up you, you shut up".

[KarenBravo]

SL when did i post on this forum that children's helmets were not manufactured

Get your facts straight sport

You do not see children on motorbikes in Australia either, you must wear a helmet and none are manufactured for children

Here.

As has already been indicated previously.

Edited October 14, 2012 by KarenBravo

[stevenl]

SL when did i post on this forum that children's helmets were not manufactured

Get your facts straight sport

I know they are available here but not as far as i know in Australia

I do not think children are allowed to ride on motorbikes there

Looking forward to meeting you at the TV get together, i would love to have a public debate with you

In your post #97, which I quoted in my post #114. And which was gain quoted in KB's post #119.

Don't try to confuse the issue with non-facts.