Nisa Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Considering this logic, the lack of custody of evidence, the ability to force confessions and all the other dodgy crap that can go on in the west, and even more so here, i would contend that his mate had the drugs and he didn't. faith in what can be proven, with a farang being found not guilty on this context is an absolute miracle. I did a quick Google search (didn't dig too much) and there wasn't really a lot on this case I found and didn't see any quotes from the police or authorities. But based on comments of those with some knowledge but possible biases ... He was indeed busted with a friend (or somebody he just met) who had drugs on them but he didn't. However the charges appear to not be about this but about his conspiring with somebody else to ship meth to Japan. Need to get some work done now but would love it if somebody could find links to the original story that might have more facts about what he was actually accused. I believe the stuff I saw was supposedly from his girlfriend and family. Don't quote me but I thought I also read the guy with the drugs, that he was with, plead guilty and did 3-months ... anyway, I got the impression the circumstances of his arrest was not what the charges were about and that the charges were kind of strange as I think I also recall the conspiring happened online and nobody mentioned anything about them actually recovering the liquid meth they were talking about getting into Japan.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanUSA Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Any advice as to how to not be arrested for a crime you haven't committed? Don't hang out with drug dealers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Any advice as to how to not be arrested for a crime you haven't committed? Don't hang out with drug dealers Or prostitutes, or the police here, or people who pay 100 Baht so they don't have to go to the police station, etc, etc. I'll be sure to ask every new person I meet here if they're a criminal. I'm sure they'll be honest and tell me the truth, They're a criminal after all. Thanks for the great advice, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonclark Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 As for "innocent until proven guilty", it is a concept for Judges and Juries to use while considering a person's guilt and is not a reality as to the person's actual responsibility for the crime. In fact, when a person is held over for trial both here and much of the west, it is because it has been determined that there is a good chance the person committed the crime. Nisa agree with most of what you have said however I think the comparison with the west is not accurate.. There are a good number of Thais in jail that are there on flimsy evidence - evidence which certainly wouldn't have held up in a western court. Also in the UK at least you are provide free of charge a solicitor to represent you. Is that the case in Thailand also? I know from experience of friends of the family that one of their sons was put away as he was unable to afford the legal fees and had to represent himself 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 As for "innocent until proven guilty", it is a concept for Judges and Juries to use while considering a person's guilt and is not a reality as to the person's actual responsibility for the crime. In fact, when a person is held over for trial both here and much of the west, it is because it has been determined that there is a good chance the person committed the crime. Nisa agree with most of what you have said however I think the comparison with the west is not accurate.. There are a good number of Thais in jail that are there on flimsy evidence - evidence which certainly wouldn't have held up in a western court. Also in the UK at least you are provide free of charge a solicitor to represent you. Is that the case in Thailand also? I know from experience of friends of the family that one of their sons was put away as he was unable to afford the legal fees and had to represent himself Thanks for the rational and intelligent response. It is my understanding you are appointed a lawyer in Thailand if you don't have your own. I think neither of us are experts (or even come close) to knowledge about the Thai Courts / Judicial System but I am skeptical of most people's first hand or friend family accounts of them who have been accused of a crime. If we went solely by this kind of input then we'd have to believe most people doing time in jail in the west are innocent While the evidence requirements to hold somebody for trial in Thailand "may" be substantially less (or may not be - I don't know), I am sure there are many law & order types in the west who complain about the great restrictions on prosecutors presenting evidence and the overwhelming burden put on the prosecutors. However, it is was my understanding that the Thai Court System is modeled after those in the west (European / Parliamentary type countries) but did a quick search to verify this and came up with this ... The Thai legal system became an amalgam of German, Swiss, French, English, Japanese, Italian, and Indian laws and practices. Even today, Islamic laws and practices exist in four southern provinces. Over the years, Thai law has naturally taken on its own Thai identity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_country_legal_systems Again, I don't know for sure but tend to believe in general the Thai Courts are as fair as other mainstream countries. However, being from the US, I do recognize difference such as (again my understanding) much of the proceeding being handled in a paper filing fashion as opposed to individuals testifying and of course the lack of a jury system and instead having a panel of judges. I can argue for and against the gist of these differences but see them just as differences and not an indication of one system being corrupt, bad or less fair. One thing I do know about Thai courts is for all the stiff penalties there are here, it is very easy to escape jail on most first time offenses by pleading guilty, showing remorse and cooperating with police. And the same can be said about sentences being carried out in terms of doing less time than actually sentenced. At least in these respects, there appears to be more compassion even if it is not written in the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanUSA Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Any advice as to how to not be arrested for a crime you haven't committed? Don't hang out with drug dealers Or prostitutes, or the police here, or people who pay 100 Baht so they don't have to go to the police station, etc, etc. I'll be sure to ask every new person I meet here if they're a criminal. I'm sure they'll be honest and tell me the truth, They're a criminal after all. Thanks for the great advice, Did you even read the original news story? The guy was part of a group of people that were planning to smuggle drugs across international borders. Here are the quick details from the story posted in this same Thailand News forum Viravan said Mettinisson’s girlfriend had told him she had overheard a conversation between him and the Arabian man on Skype. Mettinisson was under the impression that the drug was legal and that it would be delivered to a physician in Japan.He was supposed to receive USD 2,500 (ISK 280,000, EUR 1,700) for finding someone to deliver the drug. Mettinisson found someone willing to do it, who proved to be an undercover policeman. He and the Arabian man, who carried the drug, decided to meet the mule at the Grand Mercure Fortune hotel in Bangkok on Monday last week where they were arrested. Edited October 10, 2012 by IsaanUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 You have to remember in Thailand if you are found in a house or a car or business with contraband your are as guilty as the person it belongs to. I know someone in Chiang mai who gets getting busted all of the time for gambling, a neighbor had just stopped by to pick something up and was watching her friend play cards when the cops showed up for a bust. The friend watching was hustled off and fined as well. In Thailand it is very important to know who you are hanging out with and what they are up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 As for "innocent until proven guilty", it is a concept for Judges and Juries to use while considering a person's guilt and is not a reality as to the person's actual responsibility for the crime. In fact, when a person is held over for trial both here and much of the west, it is because it has been determined that there is a good chance the person committed the crime. Nisa agree with most of what you have said however I think the comparison with the west is not accurate.. There are a good number of Thais in jail that are there on flimsy evidence - evidence which certainly wouldn't have held up in a western court. Also in the UK at least you are provide free of charge a solicitor to represent you. Is that the case in Thailand also? I know from experience of friends of the family that one of their sons was put away as he was unable to afford the legal fees and had to represent himself Thanks for the rational and intelligent response. It is my understanding you are appointed a lawyer in Thailand if you don't have your own. I think neither of us are experts (or even come close) to knowledge about the Thai Courts / Judicial System but I am skeptical of most people's first hand or friend family accounts of them who have been accused of a crime. If we went solely by this kind of input then we'd have to believe most people doing time in jail in the west are innocent While the evidence requirements to hold somebody for trial in Thailand "may" be substantially less (or may not be - I don't know), I am sure there are many law & order types in the west who complain about the great restrictions on prosecutors presenting evidence and the overwhelming burden put on the prosecutors. However, it is was my understanding that the Thai Court System is modeled after those in the west (European / Parliamentary type countries) but did a quick search to verify this and came up with this ... The Thai legal system became an amalgam of German, Swiss, French, English, Japanese, Italian, and Indian laws and practices. Even today, Islamic laws and practices exist in four southern provinces. Over the years, Thai law has naturally taken on its own Thai identity. http://en.wikipedia....y_legal_systems Again, I don't know for sure but tend to believe in general the Thai Courts are as fair as other mainstream countries. However, being from the US, I do recognize difference such as (again my understanding) much of the proceeding being handled in a paper filing fashion as opposed to individuals testifying and of course the lack of a jury system and instead having a panel of judges. I can argue for and against the gist of these differences but see them just as differences and not an indication of one system being corrupt, bad or less fair. One thing I do know about Thai courts is for all the stiff penalties there are here, it is very easy to escape jail on most first time offenses by pleading guilty, showing remorse and cooperating with police. And the same can be said about sentences being carried out in terms of doing less time than actually sentenced. At least in these respects, there appears to be more compassion even if it is not written in the law. The Thai courts cannot be any worse that those in the states especially with all of the so called rapist and murders being released on DNA evidence that proved their innocence. I have an friend here in the states that was being railroaded by the prosecution much of there evidence was proven faulty especially when a video of him coaching a girls soccer game showed he couldn't be hiding evidence at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcaulk Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Some might want to know the name and number of his ... lawyer. dam_n right we do!!!.....It would be a helluva lot more useful than any / all these post by <deleted>' TV "sea-lawyers"!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gk10002000 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 See so many stories similar to this. I think, even though I do not like to think this way, that the Thai "must save face" mentality prevents them from rescinding or withdrawing complaints or allegations. Prosecutors, arresting officers, etc. can't simply say, "sorry, you are free to go". So the situations drag on forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Here are the quick details from the story posted in this same Thailand News forum Viravan said Mettinisson’s girlfriend had told him she had overheard a conversation between him and the Arabian man on Skype. Mettinisson was under the impression that the drug was legal and that it would be delivered to a physician in Japan.He was supposed to receive USD 2,500 (ISK 280,000, EUR 1,700) for finding someone to deliver the drug. Mettinisson found someone willing to do it, who proved to be an undercover policeman. He and the Arabian man, who carried the drug, decided to meet the mule at the Grand Mercure Fortune hotel in Bangkok on Monday last week where they were arrested. I found this too but do you or anybody else have any links to official statements/ version of events such as police statements or actual charges. It seems his local news had a real interest in the events of the arrest and crime as long as it was hearsay they were reporting. First Story (April 4, 2011) ... http://www.icelandre...78640.news.aspx (story based entirely on what Mom passed along to the press) Second Story (June 7, 2011).. http://www.icelandre...w_0_a_id=378798 some details the embassy guy passed along, that he got from the girlfriend, that provide different circumstance's than Mom's version but to be fair the info was given to her by GF who she says didn't speak English well. Again, absolutely no official version of events. Third Story - (Aug. 2, 2012 ) when he was found not guilty ... http://www.icelandre...w_0_a_id=392255 no mention what-so-ever about the events leading to his arrest or the actual charges except they were drug related and again no indication anything being stated about the case is not hearsay. Final Story - (Oct. 10, 2012) about his release ... http://icelandreview...w_0_a_id=394069 no mention what-so-ever about the events leading to his arrest or the actual charges except they were drug related Anyway, would be great to hear the other or state's side of the charges and case. Be nice to know many things including what the max. penalty he was facing (was it death) as well as the official disposition of the case .... was it really not guilty or was it dismissed for some reason. Edited October 10, 2012 by Nisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Although they didn't report anything new, ScandAsia.com did run this photo, along with the below caption, with the original reports about this guy ... Mettinisson’s mother explained last week that her son had been arrested along with a stranger from Australia (other reports say he was an acquaintance),who was carrying drugs while Mettinisson had none and maintained his innocence. Who the heck can you trust now a days? Not only does it appear this picture is not from Thailand or anywhere in Asia but it is clearly not liquid meth and having a hard time imagining somebody's pockets big enough to hold all this dope while in a restaurant. Interesting though is I cannot find any other use of this photo beyond them in this story doing Google search .. https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiuysp6E7DVS3kWUxmrREe02f5ufSL8Kzcf0LEFcnXCaVuVbAy1-a89_1BFTeHDCpfwgKDADMZPL0FGoHOi16cGWS7FP3YXYcP4YiKsjYWeGGOWP7dYIGc0zvEzjSWTyUt_1DY6wU8LkL9a4ZzUKZIoipXKdhnxOs9NeOBkfMh9Wxx4AnVWETt9XC10RLxbSzm21qODqG7EvaeoIcAQ4nOrUt1eH7uGhv-PQp4fWgGcIVjHYGi3rm4tOjZhbiMYXbwt1SffKtijfySvplgt-0ls_1dS_1C5GXBCjfXHI4wsalf2U_139uSUxuRH4Ndc0SXy9_1ay6WNJgf1QBPDHDtW9h1_1KngSTAAralv-agLnXuYReASMCLCXFXJ1MWw174FpmFJUtqlHKd6PTGWvtAPgT8woTYxgo6JwYuhvDVhfR9vYKOnQ0EHfoQb1TFJZtYa8tFp5heMPcp3MFumuImkGQX6s3UvWrnlw5Z_1zPC4s59C6qo2F1HWk5jnyuEg4oxzFYCzYqwz5uGgNqEmqHs2BJJZvjTx5dmcov4UQwMeBw-S8pF2i6urrbKqOwKvXPWjrmI4DV7XkaWX_1bqw83XYJ5XJVVofKRX6iLnHgdyzPuLfE1xaLiw4nm4Yo6EBThUVJ5qmWRS8Efep1fGKgLtVeXpP_1iOpNbggzeCP3JCEa_1eQaV1dHqCzkTGwSdiP8rDcw42wWOwNE2HocPMGd_1PoPz9yrsQ5pZM1-buyArgGW2s1xwTucHdrtqjggELVs_1Q5WZ2RYJ81rBSyAL8mD7g2wUXIugOmn5F6i9ammzmuCewcRdu6kN6pFX6iATusGs-dDwWaclzvqiB97L81LijEhDTl-tWEk-1p3pr_1ANEsLVrJX0R5RvbCQb3mT1eho6HhCEgLWpL1EN5MZ6KKnUyc1MDY5aCURLTuXrPRr7n3RgXzq97jRIkm-9poRoUrTRbjl3rUG_1YmWjcXTe-gbCbpFeynrMF1NG11YfYevBbzLaQ0nnmMwEIlxWvNUJHtCGnxSRmc9Qr-Re5wDR6SoNd-AhDv_1EQkCDGKUxbzxN2HD57i6R66uqRci55PRVvVgtiqY7Id8fNyxjGIUjm777hV-AEbTphj7xSl98UAomH6BWSTI0gRL-oQnW2uO_1zb3osi-PLxQ9SjEVl2A14Spj1cOugITIEKdaJin4_1v45hR43Oz72xxndX9j-dSN-igvPMJNu8oCM2rzO2cuPxAZERP1359-fRX5fOlisQ_1iVXRebBdFZeR0TylS8xvnUnJs6YVmLavAkBQUKOyBd8yVvT1-3ThroelzUz1-wagKF2OZ1tPBxkB0hJhfo4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Don't hang out with drug dealers Yes, I read the story hence my reference to prostitutes and people who pay tea money to the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newermonkey Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Making a guess here but... The main parties involved, police, prosecution, Judge, would all have to have agreed on the amount (MONEY) on the table before the release. generally the cash would be divided equally for example 200K + 200K + 200k and his lawyer perhaps 50K but it all depends on the severity of the crime. (Only making a personal and wild assumption here though) This would be a good one for the tv show "Locked up abroad" Edited October 11, 2012 by newermonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Don't hang out with drug dealers Yes, I read the story hence my reference to prostitutes and people who pay tea money to the police. How can you not hang out with drug dealers? My gosh the motorcycle taxi drivers all carry a selection. How would one go any place? All the cool clubs have a resident drug dealer. All the DJ's can hook you up and half the cops. And hookers well you know that story. Nothing beats a yabbad up go go dancer for a good show. Who wants the Bangkok Shuffle anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragickingdom Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Found innocent. That must be a first? What is the story with this... Not a first it happens more often than you think, but the Thai justice system is rotten to the core. It could take many many years before the court really decides on an issue. In Thailand it is common practice for witnesses not to show up, cases are rescheduled every time when this happens what takes 3, 4 months. Certain prosecution witnesses do not show up for a year or longer. When there are more witnesses the prosecution can steal that way many years of an accused life. With foreigners from Western countries the courts are more cautious it is the outside world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julemanden Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 If my understanding is correct, he is with his mother in Sweden and he misses prison. http://www.ruv.is/fr...ar-fangelsisins In Sweden??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangTalk Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) As I have stated to an annoying level now ... Courts do not find people "innocent" Innocent until proven guilty. It is the onus of the prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. The prosecution failed to do so in this case, thus he remains innocent. Edited October 11, 2012 by FarangTalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Not guilty in Thailand, what does that mean? Yes in Thailand what does that mean? The opposite of no. How do you say yes? Mai chi. What is the literal translation? Not yes. So, not yes means no in Thailand. Does not guilty mean innocent? What is the opposite of guilty? If not yes means no then why would not, not guilty, mean innocent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 As I have stated to an annoying level now ... Courts do not find people "innocent" Innocent until proven guilty. It is the onus of the prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. The prosecution failed to do so in this case, thus he remains innocent. Thank you farangtalk I was actually having a bad day yesterday and decided to annoy Thai visa's resident apologist. Looking back I didn't do a very good job of it, in a court of law you cannot be called innocent like Nisa says. However as you say there is presumption of innocence which was my point, Nisa was only commenting on the wording in the article though. I am sure he didn't have a hidden agenda, as he now says it is highly likely this man is innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTIRIOS Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 ....not even an apology.......just keep him locked up while we consider appealing trying to ruin his life..... ...and probably because he carried himself to well...or was too happy, generally.......... ....that is definitely a trigger for many sickos here...... ...they have to find a way to 'screw you up'....... ..xenophobia at its finest........circa U.S.A. in the '50's against the African Americans...or anyone 'slightly different'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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