Is Being Fat A Choice (If There Is No Underlying Medical Reason)

[tropo]

I think it is because we are coming up to the end of year silly season.

Anyway, with the holidays around the corner and parties galore, we are going to see many good intentions go out of the window. Getting back on the treadmill to fitness will have to wait for after the New Year. Caveman, Marine Boy, Mountain Guru, Forest Hermit, etc be buggered.

LOL. Mr Tropo will not be missing any workouts from here on in. He'll likely be down at the gym on December 25.

I don't think it matters what time of year it is here in Thailand, there's always and excuse for a party.

[tropo]

Man must and will pay for his pleasures, but later eh?

You pay twice. Now AND later.

[laislica]

As a retired and (imm) a mature person, I can truly say that Partying is what keeps you alive, not living or existing but ALIVE Whoop whoop!

Back in Spain, nothing really gets started until about midnight and then the disco's open at 4a.m., stager out of there at 8 a.m. Sunday morning for breakfast with your chums in a quiet bar restaurant and off to the beach at 10 for a spot of kip.

Not one of the old Fart$ of around my age can keep up. The wimps crawl off to bed before 2 am.......

No stamina!!

Now that's what life's about, having fun.

(If it doesn't break you it will make you stronger)

[robblok]

I think it is because we are coming up to the end of year silly season.

Anyway, with the holidays around the corner and parties galore, we are going to see many good intentions go out of the window. Getting back on the treadmill to fitness will have to wait for after the New Year. Caveman, Marine Boy, Mountain Guru, Forest Hermit, etc be buggered.

LOL. Mr Tropo will not be missing any workouts from here on in. He'll likely be down at the gym on December 25.

I don't think it matters what time of year it is here in Thailand, there's always and excuse for a party.

You cant always escape from a party or holliday. Im on a holliday now and eating out is hard to avoid then i just try not to go overboard. I am enjoying my break but also worry a bit so i took scales with me to give me peace of mind. So far so good. Soon ill be snorkelling for hours it might help a bit and is fun.

I do know that starting up is a bit hard but once you keep going its easy to get back where you left off.

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[tropo]

You cant always escape from a party or holliday. Im on a holliday now and eating out is hard to avoid then i just try not to go overboard. I am enjoying my break but also worry a bit so i took scales with me to give me peace of mind. So far so good. Soon ill be snorkelling for hours it might help a bit and is fun.

I do know that starting up is a bit hard but once you keep going its easy to get back where you left off.

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Do a test when you return. Workout hard enough to cause significant DOMS. You won't have to use much weight after 3 weeks off. See how long it takes for the DOMS to completely disappear .

I found that it takes exactly 4 full days for my DOMS to disappear. This gives me a good estimate of how frequently I should train my muscle groups. It seems that my earlier estimate of 5 days is right on the money. 4 days to completely recover and one extra day to allow super-compensation.

Edited December 3, 2012 by tropo

[laislica]

Seriously though, many of my Spanish friends are about half my age and some of them have trouble keeping up.

However, I believe that for an ancient (as the Spanish like to call us) to be mixing with younguns is great.

They are full of vigour and that is infectious.

Better than the old uns meeting and discussing their various ailments, pills and the like.

A group of us went to a free salsa dance lesson, it was great fun and lasted several hours and what a workout that was.

Then there was the social session at the end. wonderful.

[tropo]

Now that's what life's about, having fun.

(If it doesn't break you it will make you stronger)

That's our philosophy in the gym.

In my experience I was at my worst in my partying days. I don't like to party now. If partying is about getting drunk, it's better not to partake.

[laislica]

Agreed, one doesn't have to get drunk to have fun.

You can burn a lot of calories shouting above the music lol

The dance thing lasted about three hours and the bar was not open until after it finished.

I didn't know what DOMS was so I looked it up:

Delayed onset muscle soreness is one symptom of exercise-induced muscle damage.

The other is acute muscle soreness, which appears during and immediately after exercise.

It sounds kinda bad when stated like this but I'm sure it's not because:

also called muscle fever, is the pain and stiffness felt in muscles several hours to days after unaccustomed or strenuous exercise.

The soreness is felt most strongly 24 to 72 hours after the exercise It is caused by eccentric exercise.

After such exercise, the muscle adapts rapidly to prevent muscle damage, and thereby soreness, if the exercise is repeated.

So this is a good thing?

[tropo]

Agreed, one doesn't have to get drunk to have fun.

You can burn a lot of calories shouting above the music lol

The dance thing lasted about three hours and the bar was not open until after it finished.

I didn't know what DOMS was so I looked it up:

Delayed onset muscle soreness is one symptom of exercise-induced muscle damage.

The other is acute muscle soreness, which appears during and immediately after exercise.

It sounds kinda bad when stated like this but I'm sure it's not because:

also called muscle fever, is the pain and stiffness felt in muscles several hours to days after unaccustomed or strenuous exercise.

The soreness is felt most strongly 24 to 72 hours after the exercise It is caused by eccentric exercise.

After such exercise, the muscle adapts rapidly to prevent muscle damage, and thereby soreness, if the exercise is repeated.

So this is a good thing?

I actually like DOMS. You don't get them much when you're training regularly - usually only when you do something a bit different before you've adapted.

It's very easy to get DOMS after a few weeks off so I used the opportunity to see how long they take to disappear and thereby get a more accurate idea of my recovery time.

DOMS can be also be useful to find out where a particular exercise hits a muscle.

[laislica]

Tropo, what's your take on this advice?

15 Simple Rules For Easy Fat Loss

• Eat 4-6 small meals day a day instead of the usual 2-3 large meals. Eating frequently will help regulate and boost your metabolism to burn more calories.
  
• Consume whole foods that are high in fiber and low in sugar, such as lean protein sources (lean beef, chicken, fish, and whey protein), fruits & vegetables (oranges, apples, strawberries, blueberries, broccoli, peppers, asparagus, carrots, nuts (almonds, cashews, & walnuts), and whole grains.
  
• Eat low-glycemic carbohydrates such as vegetables, whole-wheat products and oatmeal instead of refined processed carbohydrates which usually come in a box or a bag.
  
• Consume 25-35 grams of fiber per day. Fiber will help satisfy hunger pangs as well as control insulin and blood sugar levels which tend to promote fat storage.
  
• Eat some type of lean protein at each meal. Protein helps to satisfy hunger and provide the necessary building blocks to maintain lean body mass while losing body fat.
  
• Consume adequate amounts of healthy fat foods such as olive oil, walnuts, almonds, Omega-3 fortified eggs, or other Omega-3 products. Healthy fats are great antioxidants as well as help with brain function and many other essential processes that take place in the body on a daily basis. Essential Fatty Acids, according to clinical studies, could also help prevent certain diseases. To guarantee you’re consuming enough Omega-3 supplement your diet with EFA Icon.
  
• Eat 5-10 servings of fruit and vegetables a day to meet your micronutrient needs. Vegetables also contain a good amount of fiber and help to control appetites and curb hunger. Additionally, VGF25+ provides the power-packed nutrition of 25 whole vegetables, greens, and fruits in a convenient “super pill.”
  
• Consume Green Tea or Water instead of calorie-filled drinks such as soft drinks. Green Tea has many health benefits and you should be drinking 1ml of non-caffeinated fluid for every calorie that you consume. This works out between (8-12) 8oz glasses of Green Tea or Water a day.
  
• Balance your fat intake for the day. One-third should come from saturated fats, 1/3 from monounsaturated fats, and 1/3 from polyunsaturated fats. Again, ensure you’re consuming antioxidant-rich Omega-3 Essential Fatty Acids by incorporating EFA Icon into your nutritional plan.
  
• Consistent fat loss requires good habits. If you want to create good habits, then you need plan. Therefore, map out your meals every day and follow them. If you follow your plan everyday for 2-3 weeks, you will form habits that become part of your daily routine and part of your life.
  
• Incorporate “superfoods” into your meal plan on a daily basis. Some examples are salmon, low-fat plain yogurt, tomatoes, spinach, mixed berries, whole oats, mixed nuts, olive oil, flax seeds(or flax meal), green tea, and various beans. Many of the super nutrition found in these “superfoods” are also found in VGF25+.
  
• Keep total fat intake under 30% for the day. This can easily be accomplished by avoiding “extra” fats such as butter, sour cream, mayonnaise… This doesn’t mean you have to completely eliminate these items, just use them sparingly and avoid adding them to foods whenever possible.
  
• EXERCISE! Yes, you can lose weight just by changing your eating habits. But very few people succeed long-term - and it takes much longer to lose fat - when they don’t exercise. And something most people don’t realize is, just how critical ingesting the research-proven Protein to Carbohydrate ratio is to optimizing the results of your workout efforts.
  
• Record what you eat and drink. You will be amazed by what you find. Keeping a food journal is critical to your success because you need it to evaluate and analyze your current eating patterns. If your fat loss efforts are stagnant, the answer can usually be found in your food journal.
  
• Follow the 90% rule. If you can follow your plan 90% of the time, you will soon see unwanted fat melt off your body. However, if you find yourself breaking these rules more than 90% of the time, your chances of failing increase significantly.
  

[robblok]

It is for me as it means i trained with an intensity that is high enough to stimulate my muscles into growth.

Dont worry you wont be Arnold after a single workout or even a year of them.

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[robblok]

I believe the eat more then 3 meals has been proven not to work to increase MBR

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[tropo]

Tropo, what's your take on this advice?

15 Simple Rules For Easy Fat Loss

• Eat 4-6 small meals day a day instead of the usual 2-3 large meals. Eating frequently will help regulate and boost your metabolism to burn more calories.
  
• Consume whole foods that are high in fiber and low in sugar, such as lean protein sources (lean beef, chicken, fish, and whey protein), fruits & vegetables (oranges, apples, strawberries, blueberries, broccoli, peppers, asparagus, carrots, nuts (almonds, cashews, & walnuts), and whole grains.
  
• Eat low-glycemic carbohydrates such as vegetables, whole-wheat products and oatmeal instead of refined processed carbohydrates which usually come in a box or a bag.
  
• Consume 25-35 grams of fiber per day. Fiber will help satisfy hunger pangs as well as control insulin and blood sugar levels which tend to promote fat storage.
  
• Eat some type of lean protein at each meal. Protein helps to satisfy hunger and provide the necessary building blocks to maintain lean body mass while losing body fat.
  
• Consume adequate amounts of healthy fat foods such as olive oil, walnuts, almonds, Omega-3 fortified eggs, or other Omega-3 products. Healthy fats are great antioxidants as well as help with brain function and many other essential processes that take place in the body on a daily basis. Essential Fatty Acids, according to clinical studies, could also help prevent certain diseases. To guarantee you’re consuming enough Omega-3 supplement your diet with EFA Icon.
  
• Eat 5-10 servings of fruit and vegetables a day to meet your micronutrient needs. Vegetables also contain a good amount of fiber and help to control appetites and curb hunger. Additionally, VGF25+ provides the power-packed nutrition of 25 whole vegetables, greens, and fruits in a convenient “super pill.”
  
• Consume Green Tea or Water instead of calorie-filled drinks such as soft drinks. Green Tea has many health benefits and you should be drinking 1ml of non-caffeinated fluid for every calorie that you consume. This works out between (8-12) 8oz glasses of Green Tea or Water a day.
  
• Balance your fat intake for the day. One-third should come from saturated fats, 1/3 from monounsaturated fats, and 1/3 from polyunsaturated fats. Again, ensure you’re consuming antioxidant-rich Omega-3 Essential Fatty Acids by incorporating EFA Icon into your nutritional plan.
  
• Consistent fat loss requires good habits. If you want to create good habits, then you need plan. Therefore, map out your meals every day and follow them. If you follow your plan everyday for 2-3 weeks, you will form habits that become part of your daily routine and part of your life.
  
• Incorporate “superfoods” into your meal plan on a daily basis. Some examples are salmon, low-fat plain yogurt, tomatoes, spinach, mixed berries, whole oats, mixed nuts, olive oil, flax seeds(or flax meal), green tea, and various beans. Many of the super nutrition found in these “superfoods” are also found in VGF25+.
  
• Keep total fat intake under 30% for the day. This can easily be accomplished by avoiding “extra” fats such as butter, sour cream, mayonnaise… This doesn’t mean you have to completely eliminate these items, just use them sparingly and avoid adding them to foods whenever possible.
  
• EXERCISE! Yes, you can lose weight just by changing your eating habits. But very few people succeed long-term - and it takes much longer to lose fat - when they don’t exercise. And something most people don’t realize is, just how critical ingesting the research-proven Protein to Carbohydrate ratio is to optimizing the results of your workout efforts.
  
• Record what you eat and drink. You will be amazed by what you find. Keeping a food journal is critical to your success because you need it to evaluate and analyze your current eating patterns. If your fat loss efforts are stagnant, the answer can usually be found in your food journal.
  
• Follow the 90% rule. If you can follow your plan 90% of the time, you will soon see unwanted fat melt off your body. However, if you find yourself breaking these rules more than 90% of the time, your chances of failing increase significantly.
  

All excellent points, but I'll take my hat off to anyone who can incorporate all of them into a daily routine.

...but anyone who can follow all of those rules will likely be very healthy, and perhaps slim if they don't eat too much.

(edit: I'm with Robblok on point one. I don't believe eating more often boosts the MBR)

(edit 2: but eating small meals more often can spread the carbohydrate load [assuming the person likes to eat a lot of carbs] - and thereby limit blood sugar spikes - which will help with fat loss for most older people who have developed insulin resistance)

Edited December 3, 2012 by tropo

[laislica]

I don't record what or when I eat and I know I really should because it will show up the naughties that we like to hide.

Rob mentioned plateaus before and maybe the clues would be there for him too.

But I'm good with most of the rest of it, inc the green tea but I should drink more water.

Well, in my normal routine but hey this is party time lol so there will be a few lapses.

There are two house blessings coming up at the w/e, then the trip to Chiang Mai, Christmas, New year then two birthdays.....

Will start damage limitation but get back into the grove around Valentines......

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Seriously though, many of my Spanish friends are about half my age and some of them have trouble keeping up.

However, I believe that for an ancient (as the Spanish like to call us) to be mixing with younguns is great.

They are full of vigour and that is infectious.

Better than the old uns meeting and discussing their various ailments, pills and the like.

A group of us went to a free salsa dance lesson, it was great fun and lasted several hours and what a workout that was.

Then there was the social session at the end. wonderful.

A kind of Ronnie Wood wannabee!

[Kalbo]

I know about the fasted exercise theory and i do believe its valid. But you could also burn muscle that way.

As far as i know its based on the theory that all energy stores are depleted in the morning. Some advocate it some don't im not sure about it i do know for me it limits how hard i can train. I have done it though for a while and if i had the mood for it its good. Gets the cardio for the day out of the way.

On the other hand i do believe in a good breakfast and that its important, but some light cardio before it might be good.

I make sure i get plenty of proteins and other stuff in the morning its one of my biggest meals.

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There is another way. Make the morning meal before you do your cardio pure protein. You won't affect the fat-burning and you'll get the protein your body needs first thing in the morning.

This has got me curious. For arguments sake, I'm going to try and make this as simple as I can. Suppose I ate approximately 200 calories of protein, then proceeded to workout, expending approximately 200 calories during said workout. Would the calories spent during the workout come from the body fat or from the previously ingested protein ? I know what I've asked is a very simplified process, but here's hoping you can understand what I'm trying to ask ?

[robblok]

I know about the fasted exercise theory and i do believe its valid. But you could also burn muscle that way.

As far as i know its based on the theory that all energy stores are depleted in the morning. Some advocate it some don't im not sure about it i do know for me it limits how hard i can train. I have done it though for a while and if i had the mood for it its good. Gets the cardio for the day out of the way.

On the other hand i do believe in a good breakfast and that its important, but some light cardio before it might be good.

I make sure i get plenty of proteins and other stuff in the morning its one of my biggest meals.

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There is another way. Make the morning meal before you do your cardio pure protein. You won't affect the fat-burning and you'll get the protein your body needs first thing in the morning.

This has got me curious. For arguments sake, I'm going to try and make this as simple as I can. Suppose I ate approximately 200 calories of protein, then proceeded to workout, expending approximately 200 calories during said workout. Would the calories spent during the workout come from the body fat or from the previously ingested protein ? I know what I've asked is a very simplified process, but here's hoping you can understand what I'm trying to ask ?

Depends on how long you wait. The body needs time to process it and fill your depleted energy stores.

So it would come from fat, if energy stores are depleted after the night.

I am curious though if the protein then would be used for the muscles or used to fill the energy stores.

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Edited December 4, 2012 by robblok

[Kalbo]

I know about the fasted exercise theory and i do believe its valid. But you could also burn muscle that way.

As far as i know its based on the theory that all energy stores are depleted in the morning. Some advocate it some don't im not sure about it i do know for me it limits how hard i can train. I have done it though for a while and if i had the mood for it its good. Gets the cardio for the day out of the way.

On the other hand i do believe in a good breakfast and that its important, but some light cardio before it might be good.

I make sure i get plenty of proteins and other stuff in the morning its one of my biggest meals.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

There is another way. Make the morning meal before you do your cardio pure protein. You won't affect the fat-burning and you'll get the protein your body needs first thing in the morning.

This has got me curious. For arguments sake, I'm going to try and make this as simple as I can. Suppose I ate approximately 200 calories of protein, then proceeded to workout, expending approximately 200 calories during said workout. Would the calories spent during the workout come from the body fat or from the previously ingested protein ? I know what I've asked is a very simplified process, but here's hoping you can understand what I'm trying to ask ?

Depends on how long you wait. The body needs time to process it and fill your depleted energy stores.

So it would come from fat, if energy stores are depleted after the night.

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Even if I consumed 200 cals of protein prior to the workout ?

[robblok]

I don't record what or when I eat and I know I really should because it will show up the naughties that we like to hide.

Rob mentioned plateaus before and maybe the clues would be there for him too.

But I'm good with most of the rest of it, inc the green tea but I should drink more water.

Well, in my normal routine but hey this is party time lol so there will be a few lapses.

There are two house blessings coming up at the w/e, then the trip to Chiang Mai, Christmas, New year then two birthdays.....

Will start damage limitation but get back into the grove around Valentines......

Insulin does not cause my platteau's on advice of tropo i bought a gluco meter to check my response to my meals and afapted them.

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[Shurup]

This has got me curious. For arguments sake, I'm going to try and make this as simple as I can. Suppose I ate approximately 200 calories of protein, then proceeded to workout, expending approximately 200 calories during said workout. Would the calories spent during the workout come from the body fat or from the previously ingested protein ? I know what I've asked is a very simplified process, but here's hoping you can understand what I'm trying to ask ?

Most of those burnt calories would come from the glycogen stored in your muscles. If you keep on doing this you would quickly find yourself out of energy.

[tropo]

This has got me curious. For arguments sake, I'm going to try and make this as simple as I can. Suppose I ate approximately 200 calories of protein, then proceeded to workout, expending approximately 200 calories during said workout. Would the calories spent during the workout come from the body fat or from the previously ingested protein ? I know what I've asked is a very simplified process, but here's hoping you can understand what I'm trying to ask ?

Most of those burnt calories would come from the glycogen stored in your muscles. If you keep on doing this you would quickly find yourself out of energy.

At the risk of upsetting you again, I'd like to say something......

I've gone down to the gym with no breakfast (no protein - nothing) and burned nearly 1900 cals during one of my crazier sessions (1.5 hours on a Cybex arc trainer). There's plenty of energy available from fat stores. When your body becomes efficient at burning fat you'll be able to go a long while without eating. The more you do this the more efficient you will become at burning fat.

The reason for the protein before cardio suggestion was to keep the muscles from breaking down due to insufficient protein. Protein to energy is the least efficient path. You'll be depleting muscle glycogen and burning fat before the body starts using the protein you consumed for energy.

A 50 gram service of WPC or WPI could work well. There is 5% carbs in WPC, but that's insignificant if you're only using about 50 grams of powder.

[Kalbo]

This has got me curious. For arguments sake, I'm going to try and make this as simple as I can. Suppose I ate approximately 200 calories of protein, then proceeded to workout, expending approximately 200 calories during said workout. Would the calories spent during the workout come from the body fat or from the previously ingested protein ? I know what I've asked is a very simplified process, but here's hoping you can understand what I'm trying to ask ?

Most of those burnt calories would come from the glycogen stored in your muscles. If you keep on doing this you would quickly find yourself out of energy.

At the risk of upsetting you again, I'd like to say something......

I've gone down to the gym with no breakfast (no protein - nothing) and burned nearly 1900 cals during one of my crazier sessions (1.5 hours on a Cybex arc trainer). There's plenty of energy available from fat stores. When your body becomes efficient at burning fat you'll be able to go a long while without eating. The more you do this the more efficient you will become at burning fat.

The reason for the protein before cardio suggestion was to keep the muscles from breaking down due to insufficient protein. Protein to energy is the least efficient path. You'll be depleting muscle glycogen and burning fat before the body starts using the protein you consumed for energy.

A 50 gram service of WPC or WPI could work well. There is 5% carbs in WPC, but that's insignificant if you're only using about 50 grams of powder.

Thank you, that's the sort of info I was looking for. I have learned something new again.

[Shurup]

I'm not being upset but thx for asking for permission first. lol

You didn't disprove what I said, just added more details.

Out of 200 cal from his example most would be burnt glycogen, if he goes crazy as in your example, perhaps a big part of it would be from fat stores.

Still I won't believe even you can go for very long without carbs unless you're in ketosis or something. Going "crazy" and burning a few thousands cals in a set is definitely not impossible, you still need to eat some carbs after that to replenish your energy stores.

[tropo]

Thank you, that's the sort of info I was looking for. I have learned something new again.

This is a theory that Dr Mercola writes about. Some people are more efficient at using fat for fuel than others. The way to decide how efficient you are at burning fat is to see how well you do exercising before eating. A carb dependent person will run out of energy quickly as they cannot efficiently tap into their fat reserves. If you keep your carb consumption down to a minimal you'll become more efficient at burning fat.

[tropo]

I'm not being upset but thx for asking for permission first. lol

You didn't disprove what I said, just added more details.

Out of 200 cal from his example most would be burnt glycogen, if he goes crazy as in your example, perhaps a big part of it would be from fat stores.

Still I won't believe even you can go for very long without carbs unless you're in ketosis or something. Going "crazy" and burning a few thousands cals in a set is definitely not impossible, you still need to eat some carbs after that to replenish your energy stores.

Your body will continue quite well without carbs. It doesn't need carbs at all. Glycogen can be replenished from fat reserves and dietary fat and protein. I could eat a zero carb, high fat/high protein meal after burning 2000 calories and do fine. This is a great way to lose fat.

This isn't what I do now as I'm not trying to lose fat but rather build muscle. Now I eat a high carb meal after the gym to quickly replenish the muscle glycogen stores. I also enjoy eating carbs, so it's nice to be able to eat them without worrying about blood sugar spikes.

[robblok]

I'm not being upset but thx for asking for permission first. lol

You didn't disprove what I said, just added more details.

Out of 200 cal from his example most would be burnt glycogen, if he goes crazy as in your example, perhaps a big part of it would be from fat stores.

Still I won't believe even you can go for very long without carbs unless you're in ketosis or something. Going "crazy" and burning a few thousands cals in a set is definitely not impossible, you still need to eat some carbs after that to replenish your energy stores.

It largely depends on the intensity of the exercise what is used as fuel. I like what Tropo is saying but i don't think its 100% correct,because if he is right you don't have to count calories from protein. Because fat is burned before protein. I did read that testosterone injected or natural will reserve some of the proteins for syntheses. So the higher your testosterone the more of the protein is jot available as fuel.

Please correct me if im wrong i think this discussion is adding information for everyone of us.

[tropo]

I'm not being upset but thx for asking for permission first. lol

You didn't disprove what I said, just added more details.

Out of 200 cal from his example most would be burnt glycogen, if he goes crazy as in your example, perhaps a big part of it would be from fat stores.

Still I won't believe even you can go for very long without carbs unless you're in ketosis or something. Going "crazy" and burning a few thousands cals in a set is definitely not impossible, you still need to eat some carbs after that to replenish your energy stores.

It largely depends on the intensity of the exercise what is used as fuel. I like what Tropo is saying but i don't think its 100% correct,because if he is right you don't have to count calories from protein. Because fat is burned before protein. I did read that testosterone injected or natural will reserve some of the proteins for syntheses. So the higher your testosterone the more of the protein is jot available as fuel.

Please correct me if im wrong i think this discussion is adding information for everyone of us.

Yeah, we're coming back to the old calorie's aren't calories debate again.

I think if your body is efficiently using fat for fuel and you have good insulin sensitivity it's all about calories in vs calories out. If you have insulin resistance things change..

But if you come into exercise without eating you're going to force the body to use fat for fuel. This could be difficult for people who don't use fat efficiently.

That's the way I see it - but I'm guessing a bit here too.

[robblok]

I'm not being upset but thx for asking for permission first. lol

You didn't disprove what I said, just added more details.

Out of 200 cal from his example most would be burnt glycogen, if he goes crazy as in your example, perhaps a big part of it would be from fat stores.

Still I won't believe even you can go for very long without carbs unless you're in ketosis or something. Going "crazy" and burning a few thousands cals in a set is definitely not impossible, you still need to eat some carbs after that to replenish your energy stores.

It largely depends on the intensity of the exercise what is used as fuel. I like what Tropo is saying but i don't think its 100% correct,because if he is right you don't have to count calories from protein. Because fat is burned before protein. I did read that testosterone injected or natural will reserve some of the proteins for syntheses. So the higher your testosterone the more of the protein is jot available as fuel.

Please correct me if im wrong i think this discussion is adding information for everyone of us.

Yeah, we're coming back to the old calorie's aren't calories debate again.

I think if your body is efficiently using fat for fuel and you have good insulin sensitivity it's all about calories in vs calories out. If you have insulin resistance things change..

But if you come into exercise without eating you're going to force the body to use fat for fuel. This could be difficult for people who don't use fat efficiently.

That's the way I see it - but I'm guessing a bit here too.

There is one question that is bugging me. If testosterone reserves protein for syntyses (repair and growth of musclr) then i take it those calories cant be used as fuel. I dont think its a big number but im just curios.

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[tropo]

There is one question that is bugging me. If testosterone reserves protein for syntyses (repair and growth of musclr) then i take it those calories cant be used as fuel. I dont think its a big number but im just curios.

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The more you think about it the more complicated it becomes.

[laislica]

From personal experience:

As a 40 something, in an office job, not fit, fat but not obese.

At the w/e if I had work to do on the house, say clean the gutters.

I'd start before brekkie, get out the ladder, errect it. Get the tools, climb the ladder a few times, move it etc.

Very quickly, I became weak and wobbly and needed to eat to overcome it.

However, if I ignored the need for food and struggled on, after another ten or so mins, I was OK again and could continue for ages, at least until the job was done, more than an hour.

I believe that the body does all it can to conserve fat (blast it!!) but if you really have to go on, it will eventually switch to fat burning and help you.

Years later, about Tropo's age, I was fat and unfit. I started long evening walks and a reduced calorie diet.

Eventually, I walked/jogged for an hour, which eventually became 2 hours.

I did a veg juice diet for 6 weeks and banged off 20Kg, went to the gym at least once per working day.

As Tropo says, once your body sees that you will exercise so, it accommodates you, eating or not.

I think that the plateau happens because we tend to stay in a strategic exercise/eating routine and the body learns this.

So, how about every now and again, do things that your body is not expecting.

No exercise and pig out for a day.

Then back to the routine for some days.

Then zero carbs and exercise like hell.

Back to routine.

One day throw loads of coconut oil down the neck and eat less cos the oil fills you up.

OK so give it to me - I'm ready for the broadside lol