Aging Chiang Mai Expatriates In Trouble

[uptheos]

Is it true that a lot of morbidly obese fat arsed foreigeners are moving to CM for the cooler weather as they cannot handle the heat and sweat rashes anymore?

[cheeryble]

Forget all the scare stories about being away so you will be refused, its a load of rubbish.

I had read that after a certain time out of the country, you're refused all benefits and health care other than emergency medical cover which they will probably try to reclaim by stealing any assets you may have there. I had about thought how they would check if I went back for cancer or heart treatment on the NHS. I'm not sure my NI number is attached to my passport or tax (I'm a non UK tax domicile) details. Can you give more details about how to bypass this?

You will always be entitled to emergency treatment but nothing beyond that, unless:

1) you are of pensionable age and in reciept of your UK state pension, or,

2) you declare that you have returned to the UK on a settled basis which you may be asked to prove. The latter might include having proof that you've severed ties with the country you just left so sale of personal real estate perhaps. I think that if you have no tangible proof and you genuinely have returned for good, offering to relinquish your passport might do the trick or a cash bond to be held for xx months perhaps..

Chiangmai

I find your post important.

Your (1) seems to suggest you WILL get treatment BEYOND emergency, ie all treatment, if you are a pensioner. Capital is not mentioned so presumably it's provided regardless of funds.

Could you cite the source please as it would be important to me.

I feel hard done by that most taxes are paid during the healthy younger portion of life and it seems unfair to pull the rug out when one needs it.

I self insure and Im content to do so.....already paid for an operation here.....but would like to think if a financially onerous health problem came along I could go home as a backup.

Edited October 24, 2012 by cheeryble

[cmsally]

This might be relevant for some people from the UK and was an experience I had earlier this year.

I went to pick up a prescription for an elderly relation, handed it in and waited etc.

Then when it was ready it was actually her home address that they called , absolutely NO mention of the name until they double checked when you actually took it.

Glean from this what you may, but it seems having a registered address at your local clinic/GP could be one of the most important things.

[TwoDogz]

Is it true that a lot of morbidly obese fat arsed foreigeners are moving to CM for the cooler weather as they cannot handle the heat and sweat rashes anymore?

So is that a yes ?

[OZEMADE]

When they visited Thailand the first time. Like many, they made their mind up that this is the country they wanted to spend the rest of their lives in.

The exchange rate was good then and is not too bad today, the only ones that loose out a bit that I can see are the Brits, their Pound crashed dramatically, but has now settled again. Aussies and Yanks on a par.

It's your life and you made your mind up what you wanted to do when you moved here. If things have changed that dramatically go back home where you may feel safer, but you wont be able to live the life you chose here. It's all about CASH. Too expensive back home for everything.

[Mapguy]

Is it true that a lot of morbidly obese fat arsed foreigeners are moving to CM for the cooler weather as they cannot handle the heat and sweat rashes anymore?

[ataloss]

I hear you. There are 2 major problems with private insurance.

1) the biggest one, is that insurance companies do not want to pay any claims, any claims whatsoever!

I'm sorry but that is complete nonsense. Thai insurance companies are excellent at paying out claims. Much, much easier than anywhere else in the world I have been/lived. I have filed perhaps 12 insurance claims in Thailand (mostly against my child's health insurance policy) and never was a single claim scrutinized too closely or denied.

That is my experience too. Insurance in Thailand is not expensive and legitimate claims will be honored.

Hmmm....if you would please...Which exactly are the 'not expensive' insurance companies; with prices, and caveats if any. Mine comes up for renewal on the 1st of January. Would appreciate any constructive guidance. Cheers...

[TheVicar]

I don't know about the U.K. as I have never lived there but cable TV and Internet is indeed cheaper in other European countries than it is here.

WeTV is about 400bht a month ...... what cable TV can you get in Europe cheaper than that?

Hang on I'm behind the times BT Internet and TV .... 18UKP/month plus 11UKP line rental +20% VAT = 1,800bht/month Vs 1,000bht/month for the Thai internet + WeTV.

We TV firstly is ONLY available in central Chiang Mai (the old town and adjacent areas) which makes me wonder Tomo if you are really living in that bucolic state of nature you claim. Secondly, the only English language channel of any note that it has (if you can get the service) is the BBC. I believe that True TV's gold package (their only worthwhile one for farangs) is more than B 1,500 a month (plus installation and extra wire charges). I paid far less in JAPAN for maybe 3 times as many channels (more than 300). I do not know that one can even get the high speed internet you are talking about in countryside/rural areas and if you can, it and the price of TRUE will be significantly higher than B 2,000. So there goes your comparison with prices in the UK. And as other posters have pointed out, cable tv and internet is higher here than in their European countries. Ditto for the USA.

Edited October 25, 2012 by TheVicar

[Mapguy]

Do the topics of health care and health insurance bear revisiting?

First, if I'm not mistaken, there is some access to the Thai national health plan for expatriates. Basically, you have to work first (I believe one calendar year) to qualify. Additionally, I have heard that some foreigners are covered through marriage with Thai citizens. I am not certain about that. How many foreigners do you think are covered through Thailand's national health care plan? I'd wager very few.

Some expats are fortunate to have complete or partially-subsidised "lifetime" health coverage associated with prior employment (often union membership). These are very fortunate people --- so long as their plans don't go broke (and that's no joke)!

Common advice is to get insurance when you are young and healthy since you will, in almost all if not all cases, be refused coverage later due to advanced age. Then there's no or limited coverage for preexisting conditions, to be expected in the case of the elderly. There are other complications, as well, which lead to denial of coverage or limited coverage. Okay, getting health insurance when you are young and healthy seems like good advice and it may suffice --- for a while. Depends on how long you will live and what level of care you can afford. Check out health insurance policy and premium tables. They abound on the net. Premium increases with age will take your breath away. (Pun intended) So can an argument be made for self-insurance? Many argue it can, especially in a place like Chiang Mai with comparably moderate costs for excellent health care on offer --- so long as costs remain moderate and a person is self-disciplined. But here's the kicker. Both options are ultimately too expensive for too many expatriates.

I haven't the statistics, but I'd wager a few more bhat that better than 95% of the foreigners from North American and EU countries (as well as Australia/NZ and a few other countries) are covered at home, if they are back in their home countries. There's the example given of the UK above. Apparently, some national health plans apparently do provide benefits to their citizens abroad. ) It is true, of course, that there are some discontinuities in coverage until one's residential status is clarified if an expat returns home, but will emergency care be provided? Most likely. Are there other "safety net" options to assist the poor. Most likely both governmental as well as private. Is equivalent assistance available in Thailand?

Shuffling through the financial options, it appears that those expatriates in dire straights in Thailand from North American, EU, and Australia/New Zealand should pack it in and pack out for "home."

That leaves the existential question: How long do you want to live and with what quality of life --- and death? And do you want to become a burden on others? If so, whom? Family, friends? Tough questions.

[philo]

You can, of course, go the cheapo route and send the child to a Thai government school where he/she will be an automaton and will never be able to attend a decent higher school or university.

What a sad view on one's host country. Well, I guess ignorance is an international bliss:

( Source http://www.msnbc.msn...s/#.UIjZvGf_m7s )

Planned is a five-year, multimedia campaign called My Wonderful World that will target children 8 to 17. The goal is to motivate parents and educators to expand geographic offerings in school, at home and in their communities.

They will have their task cut out for them, judging by the results of the survey of 510 people interviewed in December and January.

Among the findings:

• One-third of respondents couldn’t pinpoint Louisiana on a map and 48 percent were unable to locate Mississippi.
  
• Fewer than three in 10 think it important to know the locations of countries in the news and just 14 percent believe speaking another language is a necessary skill.
  
• Two-thirds didn’t know that the earthquake that killed 70,000 people in October 2005 occurred in Pakistan.
  
• Six in 10 could not find Iraq on a map of the Middle East.
  
• While the outsourcing of jobs to India has been a major U.S. business story, 47 percent could not find the Indian subcontinent on a map of Asia.
  
• While Israeli-Palestinian strife has been in the news for the entire lives of the respondents, 75 percent were unable to locate Israel on a map of the Middle East.
  
• Nearly three-quarters incorrectly named English as the most widely spoken native language.
  
• Six in 10 did not know the border between North and South Korea is the most heavily fortified in the world. Thirty percent thought the most heavily fortified border was between the United States and Mexico.
  

I guess my children will easily attain this knowledge level eating Somtam with Somchai in Somdet ...

[TommoPhysicist]

How do you take so much time on the internet away from weeding your garden ?!

I am curious about your qualifications as a teacher. What are they?

Farming only takes up about 3 months work a year (we do mainly 1 crop of corn).

B.Sc. + PGCE + member GTC + 10 Years experience in comprehensive school.

We TV firstly is ONLY available in central Chiang Mai (the old town and adjacent areas) which makes me wonder Tomo if you are really living in that bucolic state of nature you claim.

I never claimed to have WeTV, you brought up cable Tv, I told you the price. I only have Thai channels and what I download (all free) on the farm. But when I stay in CM (about 1 week a month now) the place I stay has it (but I don't pay for that). WeTV goes out as far as Hang Dong and Jet Yot as far as I know, not just the center.

Don't know about True, you never mentioned satellite Tv before. I don't have it.

@philo

Is that a survey of American schoolchildren?

Most Americans have no idea about geography outside America.

Wasn't it VP Dan Quail who thought they spoke Latin in Latin America?

Wasn't it president George Bush who couldn't spell 'tomato' on American Tv?

Edited October 25, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Semper]

Why all this talk about which school one should send their kids to? The topic was about old Farangs in Chiang Mai. Why on earth would an old (let's say 60) expat get any children in the first place? I'll bet they wouldn't do this in their home country.

[TommoPhysicist]

Why all this talk about which school one should send their kids to? The topic was about old Farangs in Chiang Mai. Why on earth would an old (let's say 60) expat get any children in the first place? I'll bet they wouldn't do this in their home country.

More like wouldn't have the opportunity!

[Mapguy]

Why all this talk about which school one should send their kids to? The topic was about old Farangs in Chiang Mai. Why on earth would an old (let's say 60) expat get any children in the first place? I'll bet they wouldn't do this in their home country.

But they do "get children," their own and sometimes marry women or have girl friends who already have children. This can potentially pose a financial strain. Can be a big problem if they take their parenting seriously.

[TheVicar]

You can, of course, go the cheapo route and send the child to a Thai government school where he/she will be an automaton and will never be able to attend a decent higher school or university.

What a sad view on one's host country. Well, I guess ignorance is an international bliss:

( Source http://www.msnbc.msn...s/#.UIjZvGf_m7s )

Planned is a five-year, multimedia campaign called My Wonderful World that will target children 8 to 17. The goal is to motivate parents and educators to expand geographic offerings in school, at home and in their communities.

They will have their task cut out for them, judging by the results of the survey of 510 people interviewed in December and January.

Among the findings:

• One-third of respondents couldn’t pinpoint Louisiana on a map and 48 percent were unable to locate Mississippi.
  
• Fewer than three in 10 think it important to know the locations of countries in the news and just 14 percent believe speaking another language is a necessary skill.
  
• Two-thirds didn’t know that the earthquake that killed 70,000 people in October 2005 occurred in Pakistan.
  
• Six in 10 could not find Iraq on a map of the Middle East.
  
• While the outsourcing of jobs to India has been a major U.S. business story, 47 percent could not find the Indian subcontinent on a map of Asia.
  
• While Israeli-Palestinian strife has been in the news for the entire lives of the respondents, 75 percent were unable to locate Israel on a map of the Middle East.
  
• Nearly three-quarters incorrectly named English as the most widely spoken native language.
  
• Six in 10 did not know the border between North and South Korea is the most heavily fortified in the world. Thirty percent thought the most heavily fortified border was between the United States and Mexico.
  

I guess my children will easily attain this knowledge level eating Somtam with Somchai in Somdet ...

My commentary on the Thai educational system sadly enough is accurate: if you attend any school you'll see little but rote "learning". As for the examples you give, they're cute but ask any Thai where, for example, Austria is. They think it is Australia. They know about the USA, England (because of football; but they're also uncertain of what is meant by the U.K. and Britain is also a shadowy concept), Germany, France and Spain. Outside of that, most Thais have little or no idea about where anything is, nor do they care. Even in Asia. And as for history, even their own history, they are clueless. Even on the subject of Buddhism, most have only the sketchiest of ideas and most of those are wrong or in direction opposition to the real teaching of the Buddha. Like fortune telling in the temples!

Most farangs who have been here any length of time know this and that is why there is a brisk business in international schools and why they can charge so much. That is why the upper crust Thais also do not send their children to either public lower schools or universities in Thailand. Sad but true. Look at their political leaders: Abhasit went to Oxford, Taksin went to the U. of Texas in Dallas, I think. That is the norm for well-off families in Thailand. What is even sadder: I've spent a lot of time in the educational system of various countries including this one and I'm convinced the host country doesn't really want to improve education for the masses. Their attitude is that real education results in people who question authority and make trouble (and they are doubtlessly right about that). They want people who take orders, work in factories without grumbling regardless of the conditions, know their "place" in society, and so on. And what is pertinent in Tomo's situation is that foreign educational systems and leaders know about the situation in Thailand so anyone who applies from a Thai local school or government school is very unlikely to be admitted to a good foreign university. I've even heard this comment from a high school principal in the USA: "Thai students? They're the worst exchange students we ever get and basically we don't like having them. They don't want to follow the rules, they cheat on tests and on their papers, they're nothing but trouble. The Vietnamese are the brightest along with the Chinese and the Koreans; but the Thais? Nope."

There are many wonderful things about Thailand but the educational system is not among them. Ask any Thai and they will pretty much admit it.

Edited October 25, 2012 by TheVicar

[circusman]

I don't know about the U.K. as I have never lived there but cable TV and Internet is indeed cheaper in other European countries than it is here.

WeTV is about 400bht a month ...... what cable TV can you get in Europe cheaper than that?

Hang on I'm behind the times BT Internet and TV .... 18UKP/month plus 11UKP line rental +20% VAT = 1,800bht/month Vs 1,000bht/month for the Thai internet + WeTV.

We TV firstly is ONLY available in central Chiang Mai (the old town and adjacent areas) which makes me wonder Tomo if you are really living in that bucolic state of nature you claim. Secondly, the only English language channel of any note that it has (if you can get the service) is the BBC. I believe that True TV's gold package (their only worthwhile one for farangs) is more than B 1,500 a month (plus installation and extra wire charges). I paid far less in JAPAN for maybe 3 times as many channels (more than 300). I do not know that one can even get the high speed internet you are talking about in countryside/rural areas and if you can, it and the price of TRUE will be significantly higher than B 2,000. So there goes your comparison with prices in the UK. And as other posters have pointed out, cable tv and internet is higher here than in their European countries. Ditto for the USA.

I just got True Visions Gold.. No charge for installing - I will pay just under 2000 baht a month and that includes the special box for receiving HD. Which by the way is spectacular.

[trainman34014]

I don't know about the U.K. as I have never lived there but cable TV and Internet is indeed cheaper in other European countries than it is here.

WeTV is about 400bht a month ...... what cable TV can you get in Europe cheaper than that?

Hang on I'm behind the times BT Internet and TV .... 18UKP/month plus 11UKP line rental +20% VAT = 1,800bht/month Vs 1,000bht/month for the Thai internet + WeTV.

We TV firstly is ONLY available in central Chiang Mai (the old town and adjacent areas) which makes me wonder Tomo if you are really living in that bucolic state of nature you claim. Secondly, the only English language channel of any note that it has (if you can get the service) is the BBC. I believe that True TV's gold package (their only worthwhile one for farangs) is more than B 1,500 a month (plus installation and extra wire charges). I paid far less in JAPAN for maybe 3 times as many channels (more than 300). I do not know that one can even get the high speed internet you are talking about in countryside/rural areas and if you can, it and the price of TRUE will be significantly higher than B 2,000. So there goes your comparison with prices in the UK. And as other posters have pointed out, cable tv and internet is higher here than in their European countries. Ditto for the USA.

Simply not true as far as WETV is concerned. I've got it out in the Boonies 10 miles South of the City. Several English language channels including BBC, Fox News, Aljazeera, Australian Network, Universal etc and two movie channels dedicated to English language. Just 350 Baht per month for 60 channels. Bargain.

[watcharacters]

I know of one group that on their website are claiming that it`s possible to retire in Thailand on $550 per month. Total rubbish.

Hmmmm, I seem to have retired to Thailand on $300 a month, have a car, m/c, big house, family and babies. Maybe I'm one of those guys with dementia, living in the 'impossible' dream.

And all the Thais families that live around me seem to do OK on less than $200 a month, they must be dreaming too.

I’m not prepared to give in-depth details of my private life and income on a public forum, but I will tell you, that I calculated my income in Thailand on being able to financially survive by receiving a bank exchange rate 30 baht = £1, so anything I receive over that amount from my foreign incomes is a bonus. All my incomes with exception of my Thai bank savings interest comes from abroad, so I am virtually taking nothing from Thailand towards my living expenses. I obtain most of my money from abroad and spend here in Thailand, in return I get to live a better lifestyle for cheaper, so it`s a happy compromise.

I have ample amounts in life savings and profits from the sale of home properties in the States and the UK to cover me for any medical emergency in Thailand, no worries or need for insurance, plus have no concerns if Immigration decide to increase the stakes required to obtain a non immigrant annual retirement visa, 800000 baht or few million baht, no problem. My son is a policeman here in Chiang Mai. Believe me, I was well investigated when my son applied the job, no problem.

Our land or I should say, my wife’s land was already owned by my now wife, inherited from her grandfather before I met her and the house we now live in was paid for by my wife from her earnings when she worked abroad as a pharmaceutical agent with back up paper work to prove the building was purchased with her money and now placed in the names of our children for my protection against her grabbing caring family if she kicks the bucket or decides to run off where she believes the grass is greener, so all completely legal and above board, My wife is fully covered financially for living expenses by my pension schemes and savings if I get the calling up to the pearly gates before her.

I never get involved, keep a low profile, keep my head down and have no needs to ever live outside the boundaries of the laws of Thailand. I am by no means rich according to Western standards, but I have planned my future well and although not asking for any medals or a round of applause, I’m still proud of myself for ensuring that I done things right and can live my life stress free where every financial decision is not a struggle and my future to remain in Thailand, unless the authorities decide to kick out all farangs regardless, is secured.

I have already written down and made clear to my wife and kids, that in the event I should ever become frail and not able to care for myself, than to bung me in a home somewhere, because I would not wish to become a burden to anybody because I have the funds to pay for good care in a proper registered facility if my health and mental faculties fail me.

Good luck to you Tommo, if you can manage on an income of $300 per month. Perhaps you have the common sense to know your limitations and budget yourself? But many do not, and in my case, I would never consider retiring to Thailand on that amount and strongly believe that others should not be encouraged to do so.

Good for you Juice...

[Mapguy]

You can, of course, go the cheapo route and send the child to a Thai government school where he/she will be an automaton and will never be able to attend a decent higher school or university.

What a sad view on one's host country. Well, I guess ignorance is an international bliss:

( Source http://www.msnbc.msn...s/#.UIjZvGf_m7s )

Planned is a five-year, multimedia campaign called My Wonderful World that will target children 8 to 17. The goal is to motivate parents and educators to expand geographic offerings in school, at home and in their communities.

They will have their task cut out for them, judging by the results of the survey of 510 people interviewed in December and January.

Among the findings:

• One-third of respondents couldn’t pinpoint Louisiana on a map and 48 percent were unable to locate Mississippi.
  
• Fewer than three in 10 think it important to know the locations of countries in the news and just 14 percent believe speaking another language is a necessary skill.
  
• Two-thirds didn’t know that the earthquake that killed 70,000 people in October 2005 occurred in Pakistan.
  
• Six in 10 could not find Iraq on a map of the Middle East.
  
• While the outsourcing of jobs to India has been a major U.S. business story, 47 percent could not find the Indian subcontinent on a map of Asia.
  
• While Israeli-Palestinian strife has been in the news for the entire lives of the respondents, 75 percent were unable to locate Israel on a map of the Middle East.
  
• Nearly three-quarters incorrectly named English as the most widely spoken native language.
  
• Six in 10 did not know the border between North and South Korea is the most heavily fortified in the world. Thirty percent thought the most heavily fortified border was between the United States and Mexico.
  

I guess my children will easily attain this knowledge level eating Somtam with Somchai in Somdet ...

My commentary on the Thai educational system sadly enough is accurate: if you attend any school you'll see little but rote "learning". As for the examples you give, they're cute but ask any Thai where, for example, Austria is. They think it is Australia. They know about the USA, England (because of football; but they're also uncertain of what is meant by the U.K. and Britain is also a shadowy concept), Germany, France and Spain. Outside of that, most Thais have little or no idea about where anything is, nor do they care. Even in Asia. And as for history, even their own history, they are clueless. Even on the subject of Buddhism, most have only the sketchiest of ideas and most of those are wrong or in direction opposition to the real teaching of the Buddha. Like fortune telling in the temples!

Most farangs who have been here any length of time know this and that is why there is a brisk business in international schools and why they can charge so much. That is why the upper crust Thais also do not send their children to either public lower schools or universities in Thailand. Sad but true. Look at their political leaders: Abhasit went to Oxford, Taksin went to the U. of Texas in Dallas, I think. That is the norm for well-off families in Thailand. What is even sadder: I've spent a lot of time in the educational system of various countries including this one and I'm convinced the host country doesn't really want to improve education for the masses. Their attitude is that real education results in people who question authority and make trouble (and they are doubtlessly right about that). They want people who take orders, work in factories without grumbling regardless of the conditions, know their "place" in society, and so on. And what is pertinent in Tomo's situation is that foreign educational systems and leaders know about the situation in Thailand so anyone who applies from a Thai local school or government school is very unlikely to be admitted to a good foreign university. I've even heard this comment from a high school principal in the USA: "Thai students? They're the worst exchange students we ever get and basically we don't like having them. They don't want to follow the rules, they cheat on tests and on their papers, they're nothing but trouble. The Vietnamese are the brightest along with the Chinese and the Koreans; but the Thais? Nope."

There are many wonderful things about Thailand but the educational system is not among them. Ask any Thai and they will pretty much admit it.

I basically agree with TheVicar but (Wish the 'Off topic" icon didn't look so grumpy!

[binjalin]

I really am amazed anyone would consider living here on 10,000 baht a month 30,000 is ok but I would guess 50,000 is common?

[mamborobert]

I really am amazed anyone would consider living here on 10,000 baht a month 30,000 is ok but I would guess 50,000 is common?

But don't most retiree posters have a lot more per their visa requirements

[Jingthing]

I really am amazed anyone would consider living here on 10,000 baht a month 30,000 is ok but I would guess 50,000 is common?

But don't most retiree posters have a lot more per their visa requirements

Not exactly so relevant. Using the bank account method (800K baht) the income requirement is ZERO baht and the import annually to Thailand requirement is also ZERO baht. Retirees here are a diverse lot, financially speaking.

[Semper]

@ Mapguy.

and sometimes marry women or have girl friends who already have children.

Correct, but the schooling expense thing only apply to those who marry a 30 or so years younger woman.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Semper

[TommoPhysicist]

I really am amazed anyone would consider living here on 10,000 baht a month 30,000 is ok but I would guess 50,000 is common?

But don't most retiree posters have a lot more per their visa requirements

Not exactly so relevant. Using the bank account method (800K baht) the income requirement is ZERO baht and the import annually to Thailand requirement is also ZERO baht. Retirees here are a diverse lot, financially speaking.

What you have and what you spend are not the same thing.

[Mapguy]

@ Mapguy.

and sometimes marry women or have girl friends who already have children.

Correct, but the schooling expense thing only apply to those who marry a 30 or so years younger woman.

Happens! Not necessarily 30. Or haven't you noticed ??!!! I recall that Picasso fathered a child when he was about 90. And that was before Viagra was invented !!!

Edited October 26, 2012 by Mapguy

[Jingthing]

I really am amazed anyone would consider living here on 10,000 baht a month 30,000 is ok but I would guess 50,000 is common?

But don't most retiree posters have a lot more per their visa requirements

Not exactly so relevant. Using the bank account method (800K baht) the income requirement is ZERO baht and the import annually to Thailand requirement is also ZERO baht. Retirees here are a diverse lot, financially speaking.

What you have and what you spend are not the same thing.

That is correct. But just because someone can afford to show 800K baht for three months every year doesn't indicate what level of monthly SPENDING they actually have the resources to afford. Maybe a very little, maybe quite a lot.

[Mapguy]

What's with all the pissing around comparing prices?! The big questions are how do you want to live and do you have the stash to do it! You have to work that out for yourself. It is clear that Chiang Mai is generally, to live a "comfortable western existence," clearly more expensive than some other places. Yes, you can do what Tommophysicist is apparently doing, but that won't suit a lot of people!

Currency exchange rates vary. Sometimes dramatically. Since 1999, we have seen awesome budget-busting changes for people who thought they were moving to Shangri La. Chiang Mai isn't Shangri La! The fruit doesn't just drop off the trees!

Judging from what I generally read on this forum, a lot of people are really hurting financially or cutting it very close to the bone. My original post was basically to ask what the hell to do about that and them !!! It is a problem for them and for the general community, and I am not talking about some sort of farang enclave. This is Thailand, not some island in Thailand.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Mapguy

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

What's with all the pissing around comparing prices?! The big questions are how do you want to live and do you have the stash to do it! You have to work that out for yourself. It is clear that Chiang Mai is generally, to live a "comfortable western existence," clearly more expensive than some other places. Yes, you can do what Tommophysicist is apparently doing, but that won't suit a lot of people!

Currency exchange rates vary. Sometimes dramatically. Since 1999, we have seen awesome budget-busting changes for people who thought they were moving to Shangri La. Chiang Mai isn't Shangri La! The fruit doesn't just drop off the trees!

Judging from what I generally read on this forum, a lot of people are really hurting financially or cutting it very close to the bone. My original post was basically to ask what the hell to do about that and them !!! It is a problem for them and for the general community, and I am not talking about some sort of farang enclave. This is Thailand, not some island in Thailand.

You have done a commendable job in drawing everyone's attention to a problem that is not just confined to Chiang Mai. There is no tidy answer and no one who has responsibility other than the individuals themselves. Each of us can play a part in being kind and helpful to those in difficulties who are known to us. There is a huge amount of collective wisdom on TV. We should all play our part in being prepared to give some of our time, energy and effort to help others. Perhaps the biggest difficulty is in knowing who exactly needs help at any point in time. Possibly we need to create some kind of referral agency? I would be more than happy to give up some of my time to help.

[LawrenceChee]

I am happy to share my financial planning experience as well...anyone keen...PM me. I agree everyone has their own standards on what is defined as "comfortable".

I have decided THB$90,000 is the minimum for me per month and that means an even THB1,100,000 per year with a bit of buffer.

This means USD$36,000 per year and if I retire for 25 years without work...it means I need USD$900,000. This may sound like a lot but if you come to CM at 55 and stop work relying only on your pension and pass out at 80....you can see why many are in the same situation as mapguy described.

Those scary sums from the financial planners are real !

[Semper]

@ Mapguy.

and sometimes marry women or have girl friends who already have children.

Correct, but the schooling expense thing only apply to those who marry a 30 or so years younger woman.

Happens! Not necessarily 30. Or haven't you noticed ??!!! I recall that Picasso fathered a child when he was about 90. And that was before Viagra was invented !!!

That's why I don't use it, better safe than sorry.