Aging Chiang Mai Expatriates In Trouble

[elektrified]

Learn how to sit in Black Canyon or a nearby Cafe for 5-6 hours during the hot season to save air-conditioning and wifi bills ....

This has to be a joke!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Learn how to sit in Black Canyon or a nearby Cafe for 5-6 hours during the hot season to save air-conditioning and wifi bills ....

This has to be a joke!

I thought finding the decent girl was the joke.

[LawrenceChee]

If you have planned well for your retirement, you will not be the joke :-) I still subscribe to the following budgets :

USD$4000 - Very Comfortable Living

USD$3000 - Comfortable Living

USD$2000 - Mid Class Living

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

As for the decent girl ;-) I want one ...not sure if anyone out there deliberately looks for a bad guy / girl...that may start another string altogether....

[onthedarkside]

If you have planned well for your retirement, you will not be the joke :-) I still subscribe to the following budgets :

USD$4000 - Very Comfortable Living

USD$3000 - Comfortable Living

USD$2000 - Mid Class Living

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

As for the decent girl ;-) I want one ...not sure if anyone out there deliberately looks for a bad guy / girl...that may start another string altogether....

I also subscribe to the above budget allocations. BUT ... add a lot more if you have a lady with expensive tastes in tow,

[Ulysses G.]

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

It just depend on what your needs are. I have recently gone mostly vegan and could live very comfortably on $1,000 a month without doing my own cooking, cleaning or laundry.

[Jingthing]

Each case is individual. For example someone who can spend 1K per month may own their home in Thailand, may have nothing appealing to "go home" back to. Go home for social programs? What if there aren't any? That 1K in Thailand could buy a quality of life similar to a 2K budget back home so staying may be very economically rational. People need to make their own decisions based on their own circumstances which only they can really know. In other words, I am making the case for not being so judgmental, not being so condescending towards lower wealth people as you can't walk in their shoes unless you are one of them, but I realize my words are in vain.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Jingthing

[Rasseru]

Yours is an interesting post, Mapguy. Or at least somewhat amusing. Maybe I missed the reason in there somewhere, but I am perplexed . . . am I supposed to care in any serious way about the 'problems' you so entertainingly describe?

[Cheesekraft]

Put me down for a 'found dead in bed'.

Sounds like the best way to go.

Even better 'found dead in 20yo gfs bed'

that might cause problems for the girlfriend

[cooked]

If you have planned well for your retirement, you will not be the joke :-) I still subscribe to the following budgets :

USD$4000 - Very Comfortable Living

USD$3000 - Comfortable Living

USD$2000 - Mid Class Living

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

As for the decent girl ;-) I want one ...not sure if anyone out there deliberately looks for a bad guy / girl...that may start another string altogether....

I have to agree, with hesitation to these suggestions. Everybody's situation is very different. My wife owns her house, but I spend money every month on renovating and extending it. At the end of the day I can always go back home and get health care from day one (Switzerland).

฿46 000.- a month does us nicely, fill up the freezer for ฿3000.-, buy veggies at the market or take from the garden. Health insurance dead cheap so I won't be refused treatment, otherwise self insurance - ฿8000.- a month, that leaves plenty for beer, car expenses and holidays I think.

[uptheos]

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

It just depend on what your needs are. I have recently gone mostly vegan and could live very comfortably on $1,000 a month without doing my own cooking, cleaning or laundry.

A lot of guys are incapable of doing their own cooking, cleaning or laundry. They want a combination of a 19 year old princess and 'mum', but usually end up with something entirely different and extremely costly.

[Fishenough]

There are several people providing aid and assistance to the 'Chiang Mai Expatriates' in trouble, and have been doing so for many years. These people do so only out of the goodness of their heart, and stay off the radar so to speak. They do so from donations or their own funds, and rarely have enough time, or money, to help all that need help.

Notice I don't say 'Aging', though most of those in need of assistance are aged, they help those that need it.

If you would like to help these giving souls, contact your consulate and ask whom they call when a Expat is in desperate need of help, help of the type that the consulate cannot assist. Mental, legal, health, personal, etc, troubles. These too few people receive several phone calls a months, from various consulates and other agencies, and will try and help those who need it. Even the smallest amounts help with these volunteers efforts.

Do not ask me for any contact information please, as one friends efforts are between the people he helps and himself only. Obviously privacy is important to both, in some cases more than others.

[anselpixel]

Granted, I'm not the most materialistic guy around, but I have to say there's absolutely no reason any US citizen should even think about taking their $1K and going home to see what services are available.

I have more, but can comfortably live off that amount of money in Thailand, and even less.

In the US, a person with that level of income is on a sleigh ride to hell.

Perhaps it would work if one lived in the old family home, and enjoyed a very low tax rate, but it's out of the question for most.

At $1K per month, most US retirees will spend at least a quarter of that for realistic medical insurance supplements to the "national" health program. Half would go to rent a tiny apartment in a secure neighborhood. Transportation independence would be impossible, as would access to cable television and broadband internet. Government assistance would be necessary to maintain any semblance of a healthy diet.

This is the reality that drives so many "first world" seniors onto the international market.

Fortunately for me, there are no dependents involved in my life, but even if there were, I think the Thai government has a pretty good idea of what it takes when they set the requirement at $2K per month. Anyone who can't live within that sort of budget might want to reconsider moving to Thailand. No need to go slumming when you can very well afford to live a reasonable lifestyle at home.

[Jingthing]

What percentage of people in the world live on less than 1K USD per month not to mention 1 USD per day? I know it's massive.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

What percentage of people in the world live on less than 1K USD per month not to mention 1 USD per day? I know it's massive.

If you increase that to 2 USD a day then it's probably about half the worlds population. When I worked in the UK I was astonished to learn that if you paid higher rate UK tax you were in the top 5% of the UK population for income! I knew a number of people in London who paid higher rate tax but couldn't even afford a haircut! What the people further down lived off god only knows! The number of poor people in the world is a sobering and depressing thought.

[TheVicar]

Unregistered help organisation/groups are not the answer as this leave elderly ex-pats vulerable to scams and exploitation.

The solutions are to make things much more difficult for Westerners to stay in Thailand for the long term.

Presently, farangs can enter and exit the Kingdom at will, with virtually no questions asked. Many seem to forget to go home and end up rooting themselves here without hardly a thought on how they intend to support themselves, perhaps hoping to earn an income by working illegally or charitable hand outs.

My point is that the authorities should not portray Thailand as an appealing retirement destination for people without wealth. Why not bring the Immigration regulations on par with Malaysia or Singapore? Otherwise Thailand will rapidly become a grazing ground for Western economic refugees, which can only bring problems to the Thai authorities and other ex-pats already living here.

While the present laid-back Immigration laws remain in force, these economic refugees will continue to come here, creating an influx of aging problematic farangs with no where to go, no future, begging for help and maybe to die destitute and alone.

As the wise man says; prevention is better than cure.

I agree with most of your post only I'm not sure about Malaysia and Singapore. You can get into Malaysia and stay very easily for 3 months. that's one more month than a tourist visa for Thailand.

I've lived in Thailand for more than 2 decades and have noticed of late a large influx of people here who really do not have money. That was not the case so long ago and doubtless might be due to the world economic crisis. In the past year alone, I've been hit on by a Frenchman who tells me his pension is too small to pay for his current wife and two ex-wifes (yet he insists he needs wine and cheese every day!). He asked for 2,000 euros and I told him to shove it. This man is 67 years old. When I told him if he has no money, maybe he should move back to his home country he said his country has changed so much it is no longer home! He also complains about North Africans living off the system in France (which it seems to me he is trying to do here). Cry me a river. This man is a con artist and has approached some of my friends for money too.

More recently, I've been the mark of an older Irishman (probably in his 70's) who has been complaining that he doesn't have enough money left from his small pension to make his visa run to Laos. He too is asking for money and will get the same answer. Sorry, I'm not a bank. But at least he is more honorable than the Frenchman; he's also very, very old and has trouble even walking about. To my knowledge, he has no one to look after him. That's sad. He's a decent fellow but you have to wonder: why did you come here exactly?

I think that Thailand will be forced to tighten its immigration procedures because of people like these. They will become a burden on the local system when their health gets worse. Too many farangs come here with the notion that they an easily get work (they cannot) and live the good life. If you don't have money in Thailand, life here is shit and everyone who has lived here knows you need far more money than the locals to stay alive. I doubt that many people can live on $1,000 a month here, either, because your costs will be far higher than locals in rent, transport, food etc. Only if you go local, can you do that and my experience is that 90% of farangs cannot go local and need the type of food of their nation (that means expensive farang restaurants and bars) and a house with aircon (make that 100% for Brits). Electricity is not cheap in Thailand either nor are internet and cable t.v. services. Even if you go local, that means you will have Thai friends who will expect you to pick up the bills and Thai loved ones who will do the same.

In fact, I think that food, electricity and cable are all cheaper in the USA. Milk, for instance, is 43 baht for less than 1 liter; that is roughly $1.33 for less than a liter of milk. The cheapest drinkable bottle of wine you can get here is about 400 baht, that is roughly $13. If you live outside the old city, you will need transport and that means minimally a motorbike which will cost more here than abroad. Cars are outrageously expensive in Thailand, maybe triple the amount you pay in the States. Cheese, bread, wine, beer are all expensive in this country and most farangs cannot live without them. And in some cases housing is also cheaper abroad (but that depends on where you live; not in big cities) especially safe/burglar free housing. Check the prices in gated communities here and you will find they are not cheap. Most people living in nongated housing will have their homes burglarized.

I knew a man who was Brazilian and had worked in Germany and came to live in Thailand but left after 2 months because he couldn't afford to live here. He's living somewhere in S. America now. Another person had similar problems and decided to move to Cambodia. I think living here is far less rosy than most people will admit.

Edited October 23, 2012 by TheVicar

[TheVicar]

I agree with Beetle for once....plan well for your retirement...personally I am not sure how anyone can quote $300 or $550 a month to live on.

I personally dont plan to live here for less than $2000 a month, I came here to retire in style, maximise my lifestyle and although that amount wont give me much of anything in my own country, in CM, it's a very healthy amount to live and enjoy the golden years.

At that amount, it's better to hike home and use every last dime / resource of social benefits in your own country for the years of taxes you have paid.

Anyone that has laughed at your accountant or financial planner before...learn to regret it...those ridiculous sums and worksheets are true...you really do need this much money to retire ! Get realistic....

anyone thathas not planned and is now trying to live on $300 regreatably if you are truthful. you wished you have done better planning and saved more.

Very true and wise words. And a good antidote to all of those "feel good" "I live here like a king on $1,000 a month" posts.

I am shocked and amazed at the number of poor farangs who have appeared in Thailand in the past few years. Most of these people did little or no financial planning in their lives. Some had lived abroad for a long time and where shocked to find out (it should come as no surprise) that their country of origin excludes them from retirement systems or gives them only small benefits.

In fact, many things here are far more expensive than they are abroad: bread, milk, cheese, wine, beer, cars, electricity, cable t.v., internet service, medical care for advanced problems (not the simple stuff which is excellent in Thailand) etc. etc. Housing can be cheaper but to be signficantly cheaper you have to live like a local and 90% of foreigners, in my experience (make that 100% for Brits and the Dutch) cannot. Going local means living in a one or two room hovel with no aircon and screaming Thai children next door; using only a motorbike for transport (motorbikes cost more here too than they do in most Western countries); and, eating the local food. But if you go local, that means you will have Thai friends who will expect you to pick up the tab (because you are a farang) and that goes for Thai loved ones as well. The price for Thai girl/boyfriends is very, very high and they will know ingenious means to extract money from you by hook or crook. The only way to go local and avoid this is to have no friends and that is not possible and desirable for most people. If you don't pick up the tab for most Thais, that means you're not worth associating with. And if you do go local, it means you are still a target for unscrupulous Thais and very likely will have your place broken into or your bike stolen. Most people I've known who have lived in Thailand for any length of time have had their houses/apartments/dwelling burglarized; numerous others have had their motorbikes stolen. This is particularly true in the North because we are near Burma and the mafia has a premium on used motorbikes. Nor are there any discounts for being a senior citizen (unlike most Western countries).

Like life in most countries for foreigners, life here for expats is more expensive than most would admit to. And it is not possible to find meaningful employment here (illegal work for pennies under the table yes but every day spent in fear of immigration; dead end teaching foreign language jobs, yes but you will regret taking such a job a week after you do so). Forget your dream of opening a small bar or guest house; 95% of them fail within a year, I know, because I have lots of friends who've done it and came begging for money because suddenly the Thai police appeared and demanded money, or bar staff ran off with assets etc. Just look at the wanted and you'll find lots of small business people eager to sell and try to get back some of the money they lost. A Russian guy is asking for almost $65,000 for "his" guest house and he only rents it! It's been on the market for over 2 years. People get trapped in their own economic dreams not realizing how hard it is to make it in your own business.

Visa runs are expensive over time too and more and more people are having trouble getting tourist visas (rightly so in my belief). There is also a much higher price to be paid for "authorities" and "people in uniform" here than in almost any Western country. It isn't the rosy life that so many people make it out to be and let's be frank, there are a hell of a lot of bitter, farang alcoholics in the bars because they know they made a big mistake coming here and now they are stuck and cannot go back.

Edited October 23, 2012 by TheVicar

[TommoPhysicist]

In fact, many things here are far more expensive than they are abroad: bread, milk, cheese, wine, beer, cars, electricity, cable t.v. etc. etc. Housing can be cheaper but to be signficantly cheaper you have to live like a local and 90% of foreigners, in my experience (make that 100 for Brits) cannot. Going local means living in a one or two room hovel with no aircon; using only a motorbike for transport (motorbikes cost more here too than they do in most Western countries) and eating the local food. But if you go local, that means you will have Thai friends who will expect you to pick up the tab (because you are a farang) and that goes for Thai loved ones as well. The only way to go local and avoid this is to have no friends and that is not possible and desirable for most people. And if you do go local, it means you are a target for unscrupulous Thais and very likely will have your place broken into or your bike stolen.

In your list of 'expensive things' you only have one necessity ....... electricity, I don't know which country you come from but Thai electricity is a fraction of the price of UK electricity. Fans are fine, nobody needs air-con.

None of the Thais around me expect handouts, neither do any of them steal, you need to mix with better quality locals.

PS. I'm a Brit so you need to reduce your 100%, I think you may have mixed up British with Americans. No insult to Americans but they do seem to love their air-con.

Edited October 23, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[TheVicar]

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

It just depend on what your needs are. I have recently gone mostly vegan and could live very comfortably on $1,000 a month without doing my own cooking, cleaning or laundry.

Good for you but how many people are willing to go vegan to live cheaply? Most farangs I know here cannot do without the type of food they were accustomed to eating for decades; and it is more expensive here than there. Beer, wine, cheese, bread, milk, are all more expensive in Thailand. So are cars, motorbikes, electricity the internet and cable t.v.

And the problem with people who are living on the edge (and I would include in that term anyone with less than $1,500 a month in income and little in the way of savings) is what do you do when a crisis happens? Like a serious motorcycle/car accident. Like having your house burglarized and your computer stolen with all your electronic goods. Like having the police visit your cozy little bar and asking for 50,000 baht in tea money. Like a major medical crisis. Like a major medical crisis for a loved one in the country you came from (think of the transport costs alone). And the list goes on. In most instances, people of little means would be better off in their home country where they have a support network and a government obligated to help them. Few realize that here until they get in trouble.

The sad fact is that most people are barely able to keep afloat but are sunk financially by such crises. I believe most people are WORSE off here than abroad for the reasons above. There is a huge group of alcoholic farangs living here and probably that is due to economic/personal problems.

Edited October 23, 2012 by TheVicar

[TheVicar]

In fact, many things here are far more expensive than they are abroad: bread, milk, cheese, wine, beer, cars, electricity, cable t.v. etc. etc. Housing can be cheaper but to be signficantly cheaper you have to live like a local and 90% of foreigners, in my experience (make that 100 for Brits) cannot. Going local means living in a one or two room hovel with no aircon; using only a motorbike for transport (motorbikes cost more here too than they do in most Western countries) and eating the local food. But if you go local, that means you will have Thai friends who will expect you to pick up the tab (because you are a farang) and that goes for Thai loved ones as well. The only way to go local and avoid this is to have no friends and that is not possible and desirable for most people. And if you do go local, it means you are a target for unscrupulous Thais and very likely will have your place broken into or your bike stolen.

In your list of 'expensive things' you only have one necessity ....... electricity, I don't know which country you come from but Thai electricity is a fraction of the price of UK electricity. Fans are fine, nobody needs air-con.

None of the Thais around me expect handouts, neither do any of them steal, you need to mix with better quality locals.

PS. I'm a Brit so you need to reduce your 100%, I think you may have mixed up British with Americans. No insult to Americans but they do seem to love their air-con.

You are right on the 100% but I stand by close to that amount, ESPECIALLY for most Brits I have known. One Londoner has to have his air con set at 18 degrees or he goes bonkers. Let's face it, most farangs expect and need air con especially in the hot months. And my point on the food is that most farangs absolutely need and crave the food of their home countries. Visit any number of local farang restaurants and you will see this; or go to Thai restaurants and see how many farangs eat "international". Or worse yet, drop into the fast food joints and see how many people are tucking into burgers and greasy chicken. I don't know any Brits who cannot live without their fish and chips. I challenge you to drop in to any British pub or restaurant and check to see what your countrymen are eating; in the main, it is not local food!

I think most people would also consider the cars/motorbikes, the internet and cable t.v. to also be minimal requirements for living abroad. I pay more here for them than I did in the USA, in S. Africa, in Japan, and in Vietnam. You are in a small, small minority regarding being able to eat the local food and not use what most people deem required nowdays (like aircon and the Internet which we are both using now). I think you're also unusually lucky on your Thai friends or haven't been hit up as of yet! The theft/burglary rate here is high by any standards. My Thai mechanic has warned me repeatedly about motorcycle thefts. I was living in CM yet for 2 months before a thief stole the rubber pads from my motorbike! I know of almost zero farangs living here long term who have not had their housing broken into if it is not in a gated community. How long have you been in Thailand?

Edited October 23, 2012 by TheVicar

[elektrified]

I can't think of any Thais I know anywhere in the country who don't have A/C. I have A/C but sometimes don't turn them on for days at a time.

Indeed wine, cheese, and other imported foods can be expensive here.

I might add that I've never had any of the problems the above poster mentioned; certainly no Thais mooching off me (most of my Thai friends insist on paying for my drinks or meals when meeting on their invitation). The g/f's family does not expect anything from me. That is not their style. Hint -- use better judgment when picking friends or family. Burglaries can happen anywhere in the world. That is not unique to Thailand.

Edited October 23, 2012 by elektrified

[TheVicar]

Regarding hospitals chasing unpaid fees, they are private companies " no pay no play" and whilst there might be exceptions, they have had enough cases of unpaid bills which is why they ask for money up front or an insurance card.

Most countries demand that retirees take out a minimum insurance plan, can be purchased from wherever but must be bought. Thailand, will inevitably follow this at some stage, and why shouldn't they? If the Thai government want to offer at a discount rate as being able to buy in bulk, that is something which would make sense.

Enforcement of the financial regulations for retirees will come about, again inevitable, and will without doubt raise the limits. There are millions of rich Asians, Chinese in particular who can easily afford, and would be happy to move to Thailand for multiple reasons. It will happen sooner than you think. So expect the rents to rise over the coming years.

As I have said before the freeze on pension rises will remain, don't expect the British government to change that there is close to zero chance of that happening. Inflation is real, whether here or in UK, my prediction is it will reach 10% in the next 4 years ( hope I am around that long so I can be proved wrong ) but whatever the rate it most certainly will not be negative. Annuities are at record lows, and EU directive, means that they fall even further, QE will further erode and another round of that is coming. forex rates are another concern, but in my view the Baht is probably trading beyond its worth, and as manufacturers see large increase in minimum salaries, cheaper investments in other countries ( Cambodia, Vietnam, Bangladesh and soon to be Myanmar ) this will spell problems for Thailand and I believe rate will improve in 2-3 years.

Not planning for the future is fool-hearty, yet some will still take this path.

Do not expect the British consulate to give or even loan you money for an airfare home, they just will not do that. Sorry that is the way it is.

On the plus side, it is possible to live on a few hundred dollars a month, if you have to , millions of Thais do it every day of their lives, but do not expect to have a beer with the boys and retire to your 50 sq meter air con apartment after. Yes you can struggle by, the question is do you want to?

If you genuinely have enough for the financial requirements for visa, then at least you should have enough to return home to your native soil where you can survive.

If you do not, by the time you reach zero, unless you have friends or family to assist you are in serious problems

If you only have 800 dollars a month to live,l then you need to be spending only 700, not 800 and cadging drinks, that will only end in disaster.

Think about all teh costs, teh initial set up, daily, weekly, monthly and yearly as well as beyond (is that car or MC going to last till the end of your life? )

Very, very good advise! Well put. I do NOT think it is possible for the vast majority of farangs to live as the Thais do (remember, they usually live in large groups with multiple people making some income and sharing small housing). To do so means to live in a shabby, rental apartment with zero furniture and a tiny bathroom with a shower. It means crowded living conditions and noisy neighbors. It means droves of barking, noisy dogs. It means eletricity breaks downs at least once a week. It means no air con and buy your own fan.

I am shocked to see how many farangs are coming to Thailand with insufficient funds and then they get into the very situations you describe. They think life is cheap here (some things are cheap, many are more expensive), they think they can easily find work here (they cannot), they think they can profitably open a small bar/hotel (most go bankrupt) etc. And when a life crisis comes (an auto or car accident, far more prevalent here than in the West) they have insufficient funds. They end up trapped here attempting to cadge drinks off one another and to find some source of income. Increasingly, I've seen farang scam artists and con men here. That was not the case even 7-10 years ago. There is also a high level of alcoholism amongst the farang community here, higher than in most of their home countries, I would think.

Edited October 23, 2012 by TheVicar

[Jingthing]

Expats are not really "trapped" here. We have to get visa extensions periodically. Unless you are willing to defraud immigration (OK, some are but I think it is a minority) there is a weeding process constantly happening. To me, a lot of this chatter comes off as ragging on poorer people. OK, many will "feel" trapped because the options of leaving feel worse, and probably usually are, but in reality the trap goes as far as the airport.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

It just depend on what your needs are. I have recently gone mostly vegan and could live very comfortably on $1,000 a month without doing my own cooking, cleaning or laundry.

Good for you but how many people are willing to go vegan to live cheaply?

One does not have to go vegan. Regular Thai food is not much more in the cheaper places and many people are happy to eat it most of the time. Like I said, it depend on your needs.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[canuckamuck]

I can't think of any Thais I know anywhere in the country who don't have A/C. I have A/C but sometimes don't turn them on for days at a time.

I can assure you that you haven't made a full sampling of the population then.

I know of many villages where no one has air con, I know some that aren't even on the grid.

Edited October 23, 2012 by canuckamuck

[TheVicar]

I guess we can pontificate about this for ever but one thing really does come to the forefront. That is the matter of health insurance.

Without going into the details of I have xxx in the bank or not as the case may be, it is a fact that the demographic of the farang population coming to live here is swung into the direction of the retired. In fact, encouraged by the not so stringent visa requirements.

That having being said, it is the case that health insurance for that age group is near enough impossible to get.

It's a bit difficult to know who to blame but if the government wants to encourage retirement here, then something workable and affordable should be put into place.

To a certain extent the blame sits on both sides but certainly if promoting Thailand as a retirement destination then it would border on the negligent not to have something set up.

This shouldn't be a problem for the younger of us who can easily get health insurance and work to pay for it, but it should be place for the older.

I'm not saying this should be a requirement but it should be an affordable option.

I hear you. There are 2 major problems with private insurance.

1) the biggest one, is that insurance companies do not want to pay any claims, any claims whatsoever! So they will find ways to exclude coverage (pre existing condition; condition not declared when taking out insurance; inadequate notice to company etc. etc. So to think that private insurance is a way out of anything is simply nonsense. Most people who have such insurance think they are covered; until they have a major problem and find out they are not.

2) why should Thailand set up an insurance scheme for farangs? Does any Western country do this for aliens? Nope. Nor will the Thais. What is nice here regarding medical treatment is that you really don't need insurance because the costs are so low. You can have major surgery (which would cost you your house in America) for a few thousand bucks. But that may change in time and the people this thread is concerned with don't have a few thousand bucks. They have pretty much nada.

Edited October 23, 2012 by TheVicar

[TheVicar]

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

It just depend on what your needs are. I have recently gone mostly vegan and could live very comfortably on $1,000 a month without doing my own cooking, cleaning or laundry.

Good for you but how many people are willing to go vegan to live cheaply?

One does not have to go vegan. Regular Thai food is not much more in the cheaper places and many people are happy to eat it most of the time. Like I said, it depend on your needs.

Yes, but you're forgetting the excessively high cost of used books here too!

[elektrified]

I can't think of any Thais I know anywhere in the country who don't have A/C. I have A/C but sometimes don't turn them on for days at a time.

I can assure you that you haven't made a full sampling of the population then.

I know of many villages where no one has air con, I know some that aren't even on the grid.

I am talking about Thai friends or family; people that I know personally, from here all the way down to Hat Yai. Every one has A/C.

I was not making a sampling of the population.

[TheVicar]

Expats are not really "trapped" here. We have to get visa extensions periodically. Unless you are willing to defraud immigration (OK, some are but I think it is a minority) there is a weeding process constantly happening. To me, a lot of this chatter comes off as ragging on poorer people. OK, many will "feel" trapped because the options of leaving feel worse, and probably usually are, but in reality the trap goes as far as the airport.

I hear you but many of the people I have met (including the Irishman and the French man) do not even have enough in savings to buy a ticket home! They really are trapped, especially after a life crisis (a major accident; major health problem) occurs. The Irishman I used as an example--a real person I know--is even having trouble scrapping enough money together for his visa run! And he must be in his 70's. One can understand that farangs like this pose problems to Thailand and Thailand will get stricter and tougher on all of us as a result.

Edited October 23, 2012 by TheVicar

[Howzitbro]

OP:

A. Where did you get this information?

B. Why do you care?

[Semper]

USD$1000 and below - GO HOME and see what social programs are available ; you may be happier @ home

It just depend on what your needs are. I have recently gone mostly vegan and could live very comfortably on $1,000 a month without doing my own cooking, cleaning or laundry.

A lot of guys are incapable of doing their own cooking, cleaning or laundry. They want a combination of a 19 year old princess and 'mum', but usually end up with something entirely different and extremely costly.

We do all the cooking at home, wife makes the cleaning and laundry stuff. Unfortunately, she's more of a "mum" than a 19 year old.