Condominium Act 100% Foreigner Ownership

[wisi]

Hi

I am an owner of a condo in Pattaya and I believe our aggregate unit space is shared 80% Foreigners and 20% Thai. In Pattaya is a special Condominium Act in place, which says

“The new Act allows that aliens or alien juristic persons (majority foreign-owned companies) can own up to 100% of the aggregate unit space registered in a condominium up to 27th April 2004.

What will be the impact for Foreigners and Thais after 27th April 2004, can I still sale my Condo to a foreigner our do I have to wait until a Thai consider the purchase?

[Digger]

Hi

I am an owner of a condo in Pattaya and I believe our aggregate unit space is shared 80% Foreigners and 20% Thai. In Pattaya is a special Condominium Act in place, which says

“The new Act allows that aliens or alien juristic persons (majority foreign-owned companies) can own up to 100% of the aggregate unit space registered in a condominium up to 27th April 2004.

What will be the impact for Foreigners and Thais after 27th April 2004, can I still sale my Condo to a foreigner our do I have to wait until a Thai consider the purchase?

Seemingly this law has been changed THIS WEEK and not waiting until April as is commonly understood. I understand it does not impact current owners with full title deeds however does impact anyone buying a condo in the future. You should check the exact position with your lawyer pronto if your thinking about selling as the inference is that they may need to set up a company to own the condo. The xample I heard today was concerning a new condo building which has not yet issued out the title deeds and they have about 90% foreign owners, and a large proportion of them look like having to go down the company owned route or putting in their Thai partners name.

[Maverick]

Hi

I am an owner of a condo in Pattaya and I believe our aggregate unit space is shared 80% Foreigners and 20% Thai. In Pattaya is a special Condominium Act in place, which says

“The new Act allows that aliens or alien juristic persons (majority foreign-owned companies) can own up to 100% of the aggregate unit space registered in a condominium up to 27th April 2004.

What will be the impact for Foreigners and Thais after 27th April 2004, can I still sale my Condo to a foreigner our do I have to wait until a Thai consider the purchase?

Seemingly this law has been changed THIS WEEK and not waiting until April as is commonly understood. I understand it does not impact current owners with full title deeds however does impact anyone buying a condo in the future. You should check the exact position with your lawyer pronto if your thinking about selling as the inference is that they may need to set up a company to own the condo. The xample I heard today was concerning a new condo building which has not yet issued out the title deeds and they have about 90% foreign owners, and a large proportion of them look like having to go down the company owned route or putting in their Thai partners name.

No where else have I heard that the potential visa changes in April 2004 affect condo ownership transfer at all - Digger where do you get yr information from (this site certainly does not contain any reference to these supposed changes under buying condos). Please provide evidence of yr sources.

[edh]

Dear all,

I have signed a deal to buy a condo at the Chateau Dale lowrise condominium.

Yesterday I got an alarming e-mail from the owner where they explain that

We are pleased to inform you that we are now ready to transfer

ownership to

you. . As now upon instructions from the Pattaya Land Office,

Chateaudale

low rise condominium will no longer be available as a 100% foreign

ownership development as originally understood by all parties. This

ruling

also affects many other condo developments in Pattaya and around

Thailand.

This means ownership will now have to be split 49% foreigners / 51%

Thais.

We have addressed the situation and after careful consideration and

deep

regret, we can see that the only way to resolve the matter fairly is to

offer the 49% to the customers who paid their deposits and signed

contracts

on the earliest dates in each building.

I have problems understanding what the really mean. The original contract states that I am to be the sole owner of the condo. Do they mean 49% ownership of the condo or is it the land where the project is built on??

The contract was checked by a lawyer before signing and everything then looked ok (abt. 2 years ago) but now??

Should I contact a lawyer again to review the contract or?

Anyone with good suggestions in what to do in this for me very important matter?

Confused/tricked farang?

(Also posted in Pattaya general topics)

Best Regards

EDH

[lopburi3]

The original contract states that I am to be the sole owner of the condo. Do they mean 49% ownership of the condo or is it the land where the project is built on??

From the fact you received the letter it seems to mean you were not among the first 49% and thus no longer have a contract to buy. The 49% means that if there are 100 units for sale only 49 can be sold to foreigners.

[NedKelly]

Gees that all sounds dodgy !! I know bugger all about buuying condos but what I thought was that it realted to an individual owning more than a certain percentage of the condo spaces........NOT a group of individuals if you lknow what I mean.

If it is aimed at the later......it is yet another example of how to screw the foreigner !! Why on earth would they be bothered by foreigenrs owning all the condos in a block ? I guess it could set a precedent for the future development and sale of condos to foreigenrs, but gees, how many would be built....nmot too many Iwould imagine. It seems they go out of their way to make life difficult for any foreigner living here. meanwhile rich Thai can buy condos off the plan in places like Australia without a worry. they can go there and drive around and buy whatever they want to buy !!

[Bobcat]

Lopburi's interpretation is correct.

[lopburi3]

Why on earth would they be bothered by foreigenrs owning all the condos in a block ?

Because the law says foreigners can not own land. The Condo owns land. If foreigners control the condo they have defacto land ownership.

[NedKelly]

Well if thats the case why the <deleted>> would any foreigner buy a condo ? If 51% is controlled by Thais you can be assured that any potential for your condo to gain value will be lost.

[iwan]

they can go there and drive around and buy whatever they want to buy !!

Actually you can now buy up to 10 rai of land in Thailand with the Elite Card (http://www.thailandelite.com/), terms and conditions apply.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

they can go there and drive around and buy whatever they want to buy !!

Actually you can now buy up to 10 rai of land in Thailand with the Elite Card (http://www.thailandelite.com/), terms and conditions apply.

Do you still believe in fairies as well ? Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

[Up2U]

they can go there and drive around and buy whatever they want to buy !!

Actually you can now buy up to 10 rai of land in Thailand with the Elite Card (http://www.thailandelite.com/), terms and conditions apply.

Do you still believe in fairies as well ? Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

The Terms and Conditions state that you still can't own the land.

The people who sell the Elite Card will 'hold the land in trust' for you.

And Santa Claus will visit my condo tonight.

[lopburi3]

Actually you can now buy up to 10 rai of land in Thailand with the Elite Card (http://www.thailandelite.com/), terms and conditions apply. 

The condition being: you can't.

[Chaz]

Yes, the land ownership rights granted by the elite card are worthless. As has been pointed out on this forum before it is illegal for a Thai individual or company to aid a foreigner in circumventing the law so as to enable that foreigner to acquire something they are by law not entitled to (i.e.land). In other word the elite card company is saying it will hold the land for you (and allow you to build a house on it) until such time that the law is changed and allow you own the land outright. But then agin even if the law was changed and said in big, bold letters that farangs could own land in the fascist state of Thailand I wouldn't trust them!

[Bobcat]

Can't wait for my Thai citizenship to get approved!! Maybe then they'll let me into the Grand Palace for free as well! The door bitch at the GP is one tough cookie. Nothing short of a Thai ID card will satisfy. I've tried the "I'm only coming here to tum boon" line and that doesn't even work. I asked about PR, and they just laughed and said come back when you're Thai. Sorry, I must have unresolved issues of anger about this

[marquess]

Pay rent, or invest your money elsewhere!

[Yohan]

The example I heard today was concerning a new condo building which has not yet issued out the title deeds and they have about 90% foreign owners, and a large proportion of them look like having to go down the company owned route or putting in their Thai partners name.

Can you tell us, which company, which condominium?

Thank you,

Johann

[Digger]

The example I heard today was concerning a new condo building which has not yet issued out the title deeds and they have about 90% foreign owners, and a large proportion of them look like having to go down the company owned route or putting in their Thai partners name.

Can you tell us, which company, which condominium?

Thank you,

Johann

View Talay codo - although I am not sure which one,but it must be one of the new ones. The source was my lawyer in Pattaya who was handling about 20 transfers for that property.

Funny enough I saw him yesterday and he is still stressed about about the whole thing and its not resolved.

Hope this helps

[Yohan]

Thank you for your information, View Talay Condo, yes, this is the new one, where I also own two units, was not open yet in December 2003 and still under almost finished construction, we were inside, and all was very normal there at that time.

They told me about the 27th April, and told me also, that this deadline is no problem for me, as I fully paid already everything. So even after that date, transfer of ownership would be no problem.

I will be there again in April 10 - 24, 2004...... and will see what is going on.

Seems I need also a lawyer.....

Will see what they are doing with all these owners, who are no owners suddenly due to Thai laws, which are more than questionable... even do not keep the promised date...

If you know something more about that matter, which might cause problems to several hundreds of foreigners, please post it on this forum.

It is the first time for me to read about that problem. No information found anywhere about that on the internet.

I wonder what View Talay will do, if all foreigners request their money back...

Thank you

Johann

[Digger]

Thank you for your information, View Talay Condo, yes, this is the new one, where I also own two units, was not open yet in December 2003 and still under almost finished construction, we were inside, and all was very normal there at that time.

They told me about the 27th April, and told me also, that this deadline is no problem for me, as I fully paid already everything. So even after that date, transfer of ownership would be no problem.

I will be there again in April 10 - 24, 2004...... and will see what is going on.

Seems I need also a lawyer.....

Will see what they are doing with all these owners, who are no owners suddenly due to Thai laws, which are more than questionable... even do not keep the promised date...

If you know something more about that matter, which might cause problems to several hundreds of foreigners, please post it on this forum.

It is the first time for me to read about that problem. No information found anywhere about that on the internet.

I wonder what View Talay will do, if all foreigners request their money back...

Thank you

Johann

Sorry I do not know anything else as I do not have any condo investments. Suggest that you do get a lawyer to look into it for you pronto.

[edh]

We have addressed the situation and after careful consideration and deep regret, we can see that the only way to resolve the matter fairly is to offer the 49% to the customers who paid their deposits and signed contracts

on the earliest dates in each building.

We have addressed the situation and after careful consideration and deep regret, we can see that the only way to resolve the matter fairly is to offer the 49% to the customers who paid their deposits and signed contracts

I got another e-mail today explaining that I am one of the 49%....

So I guess I made it.

I wonder how it will be with the other 16% that have paid their deposits and now finding out that they can't buy their condo due to the change of ownership rules?

Probably have to sign their condo on to their girlfrien/wife names or maybe involve a lawyer?

EDH

[Yohan]

For EDH:

Thank you all for your postings.

May I ask you: When you made the contract, did you pay already the full amount, or did you pay only a deposit?

-----

We have some Thai friends around and we will make some phone and fax inquiry about my own case during the next days, and I will be in Thailand 10-24/april/2004

I will report then on this forum.

I do not have any Thai wife to change my contract, but when I fully paid it (not only a deposit) and when I checked it again in December 2003, they told me, it is no problem even with the deadline 27/april/2004, because I paid everything already.....But transfer is not possible yet, as it is not open, maybe starting from February 2004 on.

When I paid it, I saw the reservation list of all floors and this was clearly less than the half, which was sold at that time...They also told me, they cannot sell much more to foreigners, as they have to respect the 49 percent rule.

During all the years of View Talay Condominiums I never heard any complaint by buyers .....

We will see....

If anybody has a comment about please post it on this forum.

Thank you

Johann

[edh]

Hi Johann,

When I signed my contract I paid a deposit of 50k Baht and then monthly ( a tenth of the half price). The other half should be paid when transfer of ownership is due.

So I still have to to pay half the sum.

I guess that you have bought your unit in the View Talay complex that is just about to be completed? (The one on the other side of the intersection Thepprasit road - coming from south Pattaya).

I have a friend that have bought three units there and I have informed him about the current changes and I am still waiting for him to reply. I will post it here as well as soon as find something out.

The whole thing is a mess right now, I made it but I feel sorry for all other foreigners that have to claim their money back and so on, we all know how slow the system is - not only in Thailand but in all of Asia.

I can unfortunately not be back in Thailand until May but I have involved a friend to investigate more about it.

Good luck all!

EDH

[lopburi3]

I got another e-mail today explaining that I am one of the 49%....

So I guess I made it.

Or they are stalling for time. Be careful.

[Yohan]

for EDH

Thank you for your information, yes, this is the new View Talay building, exactly behind the construction office. Yes, the unit now is ready to move in.

I bought 2 rooms there, fully paid however.

I will contact the office this coming week, and anyway I will be there 10-24/april/2004 and will post the results on this forum.

Thanks a lot for your informations!

You made it? Are you sure? Maybe it is just to win more time to think about a solution. See the posting of LOPBURI3 - makes sense!

for LOPBURI3: Maybe you are right......

This situation is not the fault of the construction companies - like View Talay -

they also must feel now pretty bad.... but as they are Thai and not the poor ones, they should find a solution out of that.

Johann

[Yohan]

Hi

I am an owner of a condo in Pattaya and I believe our aggregate unit space is shared 80% Foreigners and 20% Thai. In Pattaya is a special Condominium Act in place, which says

“The new Act allows that aliens or alien juristic persons (majority foreign-owned companies) can own up to 100% of the aggregate unit space registered in a condominium up to 27th April 2004.

Seemingly this law has been changed THIS WEEK and not waiting until April as is commonly understood.

This law should expires 28/April/2004.

Has anybody seen anything in written form, any official notice, from the government, that this was changed to expire earlier?

Despite an extensive search, I did not find anything......

No official information, no warnings by real estate brokers, no newspaper articles,

????

Johann

[edh]

Hi all!

Johann,

I got an answer from my frind who bought 3 units in View Talay..

He was forced to start a company to be able to buy his units..

He then has to pay 12000 baht in taxes each year on top of the yearly

fees. So I think you should contact the sales office ASAP and check that you

don't have been affected in the same way.

I am still awaiting confirmation if I can do the transfer of ownership in May.

If not, I maybe loose my "spot" among the 49% foreign owners and will have to do the same as my friend in View Talay.

Anyone else having the same difficulties??

EDH

[Yohan]

EDH,

Thank you for your information, my friend's wife, who is Thai, will call up by phone the sales office and her sister, who is living in Jomtien will go there directly this coming Monday.

Some questions to you:

Do you know, when your friend bought the 3 units?

Do you know, at what date did he pay the full amount for these 3 units?

Do you know, if he bought it directly, by visiting the sales office or did he just RESERVE it by using a broker?

My case is as follows:

I bought the 2 units on 28th July 2003

I paid the full amount by cheque issued by Siam Commerical Bank on behalf of View Talay and have the tor tor sam form of the bank confirming the full amount changed of foreign currency of the same date.

So everything was paid on 28th July 2003, also confirmed by ViewTalay receipt.

I saw the reservation list of all 18 floors, and for sure, less than the half was sold at that date. (sold = reserved, paid a deposit, it does not mean fully paid)

If they refuse me the foreign ownership, then I will claim my money back.

Fully paid, means that it belongs to me, and not to the View Talay anymore and they have to consider the date, where it was sold to me.....

The letter of View Talay requests me, to register for foreign ownership NOT later than 20th April 2004, what I will do. (20th April 2004 and not 27th April 2004)

We will see....yesterday I heard a rather different version from my friend here in Tokyo, who also has his condominium in Pattaya:

At the View Talay Sales Office some local brokers reserved a lot of units, for which they paid only the reservation fee, or some little deposit, without any documentation, who will buy that later on..

So these bookings were made for THAI ownership.

Then they promised to foreign overseas brokers, they can sell that to foreign owners. Of course with a huge price difference, and on the other side, not fully paid to View Talay.

View Talay is refusing now to accept such bookings for foreign ownership.

Something is indeed strange with the 51-49 ownership:

When I was interested to buy the 2 units of the other building behind last year, View Talay told me, that they have sold already 49 percent to foreign ownership and they sell the remaining empty units only to Thai.

So I made the contract for the new building, which is opening now.

They also told me, that local brokers make a business out of that, to buy their units as Thai ownership, then put some nice furniture inside and sell them to foreigners, making a transfer from Thai ownership to foreign ownership.

We will see, as I said, next week I will have some more informations and I will be in Thailand 10-24/april/2004

I am astonished however, how few people are showing up with that problem, and that there is no information at all available......

IF it is true, that View Talay and other condominium constructors are selling well over 49 percent to foreigners directly, there should be hundreds of foreigners coming out with that problem....

I was searching all internet....newspapers....nothing ....

Is there anybody here with same problems????

Please post here and share your informations...

Thank you,

Johann

[Digger]

EDH,

Thank you for your information, my friend's wife, who is Thai, will call up by phone the sales office and her sister, who is living in Jomtien will go there directly this coming Monday.

Some questions to you:

Do you know, when your friend bought the 3 units?

Do you know, at what date did he pay the full amount for these 3 units?

Do you know, if he bought it directly, by visiting the sales office or did he just RESERVE it by using a broker?

My case is as follows:

I bought the 2 units on 28th July 2003

I paid the full amount by cheque issued by Siam Commerical Bank on behalf of View Talay and have the tor tor sam form of the bank confirming the full amount changed of foreign currency of the same date.

So everything was paid on 28th July 2003, also confirmed by ViewTalay receipt.

I saw the reservation list of all 18 floors, and for sure, less than the half was sold at that date. (sold = reserved, paid a deposit, it does not mean fully paid)

If they refuse me the foreign ownership, then I will claim my money back.

Fully paid, means that it belongs to me, and not to the View Talay anymore and they have to consider the date, where it was sold to me.....

The letter of View Talay requests me, to register for foreign ownership NOT later than 20th April 2004, what I will do. (20th April 2004 and not 27th April 2004)

We will see....yesterday I heard a rather different version from my friend here in Tokyo, who also has his condominium in Pattaya:

At the View Talay Sales Office some local brokers reserved a lot of units, for which they paid only the reservation fee, or some little deposit, without any documentation, who will buy that later on..

So these bookings were made for THAI ownership.

Then they promised to foreign overseas brokers, they can sell that to foreign owners. Of course with a huge price difference, and on the other side, not fully paid to View Talay.

View Talay is refusing now to accept such bookings for foreign ownership.

Something is indeed strange with the 51-49 ownership:

When I was interested to buy the 2 units of the other building behind last year, View Talay told me, that they have sold already 49 percent to foreign ownership and they sell the remaining empty units only to Thai.

So I made the contract for the new building, which is opening now.

They also told me, that local brokers make a business out of that, to buy their units as Thai ownership, then put some nice furniture inside and sell them to foreigners, making a transfer from Thai ownership to foreign ownership.

We will see, as I said, next week I will have some more informations and I will be in Thailand 10-24/april/2004

I am astonished however, how few people are showing up with that problem, and that there is no information at all available......

IF it is true, that View Talay and other condominium constructors are selling well over 49 percent to foreigners directly, there should be hundreds of foreigners coming out with that problem....

I was searching all internet....newspapers....nothing ....

Is there anybody here with same problems????

Please post here and share your informations...

Thank you,

Johann

Yohan, I have heard this before as well, in so far as brokers buy options on a lot of units and then furnish them and sell them on at a higher price. Most of these brokers are not just Thai. I recall their were 2 floors of View Talay being promoted as the executive floors by one agency. I guess they bought options on two entire floors of shells and then fitted them out and re-sold them as fully furnished units. The thing that always gets me with new condo's is that the developer never kits them out with floors, ceilings, painted walls etc but just leaves them as concrete shells. I am sure that is why there is this opprtunity for someone to come in and more money and also confuse the ownership situation even further.

[Yohan]

Yohan,  I have heard this before as well, in so far as brokers buy options on a lot of units and then furnish them and sell them on at a higher price.   Most of these brokers are not just Thai.

This is indeed true and a very risky point for the foreign buyer.

As far as I know:

passport/name and nationality

sales contract

foreign currency exchange form

fully paid receipt of the condo

All papers must match the same name, or foreign ownership will NOT be confirm by the land office.

A broker, Thai or foreign, cannot do that - so it is always first considered to be Thai - and sold from the developer to Thai ownership.

If the broker later on can change this into foreign ownership, is a big questionmark now with this 49-51 rule in units like View Talay, where brokers were confident to sell all remaining 51 units from Thai ownership to foreign ownership.

The broker, Thai or not-Thai, could stay on RENT to foreigners, but until the broker

does not pay the full amount for what he booked and buys the units on his own name, View Talay will not permit him to use these units for his business.

I can imagine, that some brokers are now in trouble.

Yes, new units are looking terrible, when sold from the developer. But I have time, not in a hurry at all, and like to do it myself later on.

OK, I will see if I can claim foreign ownership when in Thailand in the middle of April 2004, earlier to 20th April 2004.

I will post any information I get on this forum.

I still did not find any evidence, that the government changed to an earlier date of expire of that questionable part of the condominium law - it should expire on 28th April 2004.

There is no official notice, nothing in the newspapers...nothing ...nowhere...

Johann