Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum

[theblether]

I think Scotland should have a border with big fences and barbed wire,and Scottish citizens should pay for a visa to enter England.

We'll pay double to get back out.....don't worry about it.

The trap for the UK government is that they look petty by not asking what would happen in the event of the vote being yes. They would be far better and far more grown up about it to ask, then provide the information as received.

The battle now is on two fronts, one being the actual fact of the matter, and the other being the Tories refusing to ask for advice. The tories should know better by now

[osiboy]

Is Scotland financially able to sustain itself as an independent country?

i think that all depends on wheather they will be granted all or only some of the north sea oil and gas , if the claim that it belongs ONLY to scotland , then england will suffer more than the scots ..........thats how i understand it , a few £ billion is big bucks to 5m people,... not so much to 58 million !

[nontabury]

Is Scotland financially able to sustain itself as an independent country?

i think that all depends on wheather they will be granted all or only some of the north sea oil and gas , if the claim that it belongs ONLY to scotland , then england will suffer more than the scots ..........thats how i understand it , a few £ billion is big bucks to 5m people,... not so much to 58 million !

Yes, may suffer from the dwindling supply of oil,but that doesn't mean England will suffer overall Financially,as shown by posters here.

My take on it,there are some Scots who are living a romantic dream,others will base their decision on what they perceive to be correct or incorrect facts,only time will tell.

While the English, have, and are increasingly basing their judgement on their growing dislike for people who have made a national sport, out of moaning, even when they are already receiving preferential treatment and a larger share of the national cake, relative to the

Size of their population.Other English people are also basing their judgement on facts that only time will tell are correct or not.

[nontabury]

To answer your question, the Labour Party will put forward the most socialist policies.

So your prepared to put the future of the Scottish people in the hands of a Scottish Labour party,who in all likelihood will put forward, even more socialist policies,than they did Under Blair/ Brown.You can nearly take it for certain that the Labour party will form the first government when they have an election after a yes vote.

Meanwhile down in England we will be guaranteed successive Conservative governments,so you lose out,we lose out.That's the British for you.

Edited November 1, 2012 by nontabury

[folium]

Political genius Alex Salmond strikes again.............

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20155813

Listen to David Cameron sing..........

" I'm caught in a trap, I can't get out "

He's just played straight into the SNP's hands.

Alex Salmond political genius? More like Alex Salmond typical political animal, more than capable of being "economical" with the truth when thought appropriate, as the BBC article highlights in the second half of the piece. This more balanced viewpoint on Salmond's status is reinforced by this recent piece from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20083993

The quote from Brian Taylor half way down on the right hand side highlights that while this may be a storm in proverbial container the question of trustworthiness and Mr Salmond still has to be reconciled....

On a different point but connected with EU membership, it is noteworthy that the Spanish government has gone on record as opposing automatic membership for an independent Scotland. Why? Because separatism is a powder keg in many EU nations, namely Spain, Belgium, Italy, Cyprus & France.

While not my usual source of information to put it mildly, here's a different take on separatism in Europe and Scotland in particular. While obviously slanted it is worth a read given the fact that the SNP wraps itself in fluffy socialist ideology (notwithstanding the fact that Salmond was on oil analyst for the Royal Bank of Scotland' s investment banking arm).

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/oct2012/pers-o30.shtml

[7by7]

As the UK's contribution the the EU budget is very much in the news, I wonder how Scottish independence will effect it.

When the budget is agreed it will be set until 2020; so will not be reviewed until after Scotland becomes independent (if it does).

Will an independent Scotland accept it's share of that budget, or will Salmond, or whoever, say that as Scotland is no longer part of the UK they are no longer responsible for any share of the UK's contribution to the EU?

I suspect Salmond will say the latter, and Brussels will agree as they can then set a budget for Scotland and so get even more money.

I doubt that Salmond will mind, though, as he doubtless reckons a Scotland without it's current financial subsidy from England will qualify for so many EU grants that it will get back more money than it contributes.

[theblether]

Yes I'm aware of all that stuff, I'm amused that Nontabury is putting forward an argument for Scotland to stay that reads along the lines of "please don't go, save us from ourselves".

Setting that to the side, I am aware that the first period of government in Scotland after the split is liable to be Socialist, that does concern me, I've thought for a while that will be part of the birthing pains of the nation. It won't last though......reality will kick home and the latent Scottish conservatism will kick in.

[onionluke]

Yes I'm aware of all that stuff, I'm amused that Nontabury is putting forward an argument for Scotland to stay that reads along the lines of "please don't go, save us from ourselves".

Setting that to the side, I am aware that the first period of government in Scotland after the split is liable to be Socialist, that does concern me, I've thought for a while that will be part of the birthing pains of the nation. It won't last though......reality will kick home and the latent Scottish conservatism will kick in.

Surely you jest ?

[bigbamboo]

THEBLETHER

You do realize that the housing benefit budget is larger than the defence budget don't you? Billions are being poured down a black hole in a story fit for a Shakespearen tragedy.

The 2002 Budget will go down in history as the day the UK committed financial suicide. Most of you don't know why.....go check it out.

I'm not trying to be smart or demeaning, there's a limit as to how much I can post here, some of the questions I'm being asked deserve 10,000 word answers. I have studied world politics, British politics and British history for years.

I can safely say that the last Labour government caused more deliberate damage to our country than any other in British history, ever........and it was deliberate, they have admitted it already.

I revile Tony Blair for his megalomaniacal weakness, but I hold Gordon Brown responsible. From literally day one he worked against Tony Blair and used the Treasury as a weapon against him. Blair was a weak little boy, Brown was and still is, a damaged, unstable tyrant.......he has caused more damage to our country than any other Prime Minister since Stanley Baldwin, another clown of the first order.

///////////////////////------------//////////////////

Oh,this is getting embarrassing,again I agree with you. I just wish you'd have mentioned

That Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are both Scottish.as we're a disproportional number in their cabinet's also in the numbers of Scottish Labour M.P,s in the then ruling party.What makes you think that a independent Scotland,governed by Scott's will be any different.

You seem to be making a sound reason why Scotland should remain in the Union.Will you please stop this,as you know, I along with many English people, want our independence,for which we have been cruelly denied for 305yrs. We are now relying on you, and like minded Scotsmen to grant us our wish,don't disappoint us.

What was the exact saying by a German General who said something like = the British soldier's are like lion's sent into battle by idiot's.

General Ludendorff.

He was reported to have likened the British soldiers as lions being led by donkeys.... although he may have meant asses and it was lost in translation!

Edited November 1, 2012 by bigbamboo

[StreetCowboy]

Yes I'm aware of all that stuff, I'm amused that Nontabury is putting forward an argument for Scotland to stay that reads along the lines of "please don't go, save us from ourselves".

Setting that to the side, I am aware that the first period of government in Scotland after the split is liable to be Socialist, that does concern me, I've thought for a while that will be part of the birthing pains of the nation. It won't last though......reality will kick home and the latent Scottish conservatism will kick in.

Surely you jest ?

He is a wag, is he not?

SC

[onionluke]

Yes I'm aware of all that stuff, I'm amused that Nontabury is putting forward an argument for Scotland to stay that reads along the lines of "please don't go, save us from ourselves".

Setting that to the side, I am aware that the first period of government in Scotland after the split is liable to be Socialist, that does concern me, I've thought for a while that will be part of the birthing pains of the nation. It won't last though......reality will kick home and the latent Scottish conservatism will kick in.

Surely you jest ?

He is a wag, is he not?

SC

Topper .

[StreetCowboy]

Yes I'm aware of all that stuff, I'm amused that Nontabury is putting forward an argument for Scotland to stay that reads along the lines of "please don't go, save us from ourselves".

Setting that to the side, I am aware that the first period of government in Scotland after the split is liable to be Socialist, that does concern me, I've thought for a while that will be part of the birthing pains of the nation. It won't last though......reality will kick home and the latent Scottish conservatism will kick in.

Surely you jest ?

He is a wag, is he not?

SC

Topper .

We're all off to Aberdeen for a bit of tupping later in the month, after the rugby

SC

[folium]

Yes I'm aware of all that stuff, I'm amused that Nontabury is putting forward an argument for Scotland to stay that reads along the lines of "please don't go, save us from ourselves".

Setting that to the side, I am aware that the first period of government in Scotland after the split is liable to be Socialist, that does concern me, I've thought for a while that will be part of the birthing pains of the nation. It won't last though......reality will kick home and the latent Scottish conservatism will kick in.

Surely you jest ?

He is a wag, is he not?

SC

Topper .

Now, now. I won't let you upset my friend Blether, I'm sure he was talking about conservatism with a very small c.

Long gone are the 30 years of Unionist Party pre-eminence and as this was based on protectionism, protestantism and the Empire, I would be surprised to see it happening again anytime soon.

It just underlines my earlier question, which of the following will happen first?

1. Independence for Scotland

2. Scotland qualifying for the World Cup Finals.

3. The Tories winning 5 seats in Scotland

4. Steely Dan converts to Islam.

Personally I reckon none of the above will happen in the forseeable future. Though re #4 he has just publicly agreed with me, so miracles may yet happen!

[onionluke]

[theblether]

Yes I'm aware of all that stuff, I'm amused that Nontabury is putting forward an argument for Scotland to stay that reads along the lines of "please don't go, save us from ourselves".

Setting that to the side, I am aware that the first period of government in Scotland after the split is liable to be Socialist, that does concern me, I've thought for a while that will be part of the birthing pains of the nation. It won't last though......reality will kick home and the latent Scottish conservatism will kick in.

Surely you jest ?

No.

[theblether]

Aha Folium.......you spotted it!!

I get amazed, and I mean amazed at how many of my fellow Scots don't know their recent history...........and by that in our lifetimes. I know I was alive when the sea change, the suicide note from hell, was signed and inflicted by the English Tory party on their colleagues in Scotland.They were warned, but nope, they wouldn't listen, and look what happened next.

Edited November 1, 2012 by theblether

[onionluke]

Yes I'm aware of all that stuff, I'm amused that Nontabury is putting forward an argument for Scotland to stay that reads along the lines of "please don't go, save us from ourselves".

Setting that to the side, I am aware that the first period of government in Scotland after the split is liable to be Socialist, that does concern me, I've thought for a while that will be part of the birthing pains of the nation. It won't last though......reality will kick home and the latent Scottish conservatism will kick in.

Surely you jest ?

No.

It never lasts , reality ......Margret delivering the milk to school children , Mark introducing lollipops to Iraq , Norman winning the milk race , Arbroath smokies becoming a Macdonalds shake 'n taste , apples falling from trees , allotments for pensioners , pubs that don't have space invader machines , young managers that have yet to work a day , songs without dances , pacifist soldiers , houses close to sea bridges where men change into their britches , nationalism afor rock and rollism , mandoliners afor gibsoners ... I can't go on any more , thank the big fly wheel in the sky controller of your choice for this fashion statement .

[theblether]

I'll thank him when he answers the contradictions.

[smokie36]

We're all off to Aberdeen for a bit of tupping later in the month, after the rugby

SC

Just beware the locals trying to tap you up...

[smokie36]

Arbroath smokies becoming a Macdonalds shake 'n taste ,

Good healthy grub that is. Not that I'm biased in any way of course.

Hang on...what's a shake n taste....surely not some Pattaya special....??

[endure]

We're all off to Aberdeen for a bit of tupping later in the month, after the rugby

My first boss when I went to sea was an Aberdonian. When we left the Persian Gulf there was a perfectly serviceable 400W HF transmitter in the radio room which he decided to 'tune up' to run at maximum capacity. When we got to Wilhelmshaven it couldn't be heard at the other end of the radio room

I also learnt far more than was good for me about his wife's sexual habits

A very strange man indeed. Are they all like that in Aberdeen? If so independence can't come too soon

[smokie36]

We're all off to Aberdeen for a bit of tupping later in the month, after the rugby

My first boss when I went to sea was an Aberdonian. When we left the Persian Gulf there was a perfectly serviceable 400W HF transmitter in the radio room which he decided to 'tune up' to run at maximum capacity. When we got to Wilhelmshaven it couldn't be heard at the other end of the radio room

I also learnt far more than was good for me about his wife's sexual habits

A very strange man indeed. Are they all like that in Aberdeen? If so independence can't come too soon

They can't play football either endure. Why...a lovely fishing town down the coast once beat them 36-0....!

[endure]

We're all off to Aberdeen for a bit of tupping later in the month, after the rugby

My first boss when I went to sea was an Aberdonian. When we left the Persian Gulf there was a perfectly serviceable 400W HF transmitter in the radio room which he decided to 'tune up' to run at maximum capacity. When we got to Wilhelmshaven it couldn't be heard at the other end of the radio room

I also learnt far more than was good for me about his wife's sexual habits

A very strange man indeed. Are they all like that in Aberdeen? If so independence can't come too soon

They can't play football either endure. Why...a lovely fishing town down the coast once beat them 36-0....!

I have to admit I'm not overly familiar with manly games...

[theblether]

In my mission to annoy the life out of you by showing how smart I am I refer you to the following article...........

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/scottish-independence-vote-is-part-of-worrying-trend/2012/10/30/4c320fb2-1896-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_story.html

A quote

" some speculate that what remained of Britain could lose its seat on the U.N. Security Council."

...........and you doubted me........I'm still hurt to the quick.

[theblether]

Maybe if you send us some more subsidies we may agree to stay........but it better be a good offer.

[sabaijai]

Voting for Scottish independence!

[folium]

In my mission to annoy the life out of you by showing how smart I am I refer you to the following article...........

http://www.washingto...6a4b_story.html

A quote

" some speculate that what remained of Britain could lose its seat on the U.N. Security Council."

...........and you doubted me........I'm still hurt to the quick.

You'll survive.

Interested to see that the SNP has been quick to deride this piece from the WP.

Repeating a piece of speculation does not make it factual.

Perhaps a read up on G4, Uniting for Consensus and In Larger Freedom will illuminate the simple fact that permanent members of the UNSC with their veto can block any changes to the UN Charter(which governs the make up of the UNSC). Turkeys (with or without a few wing feathers) don't vote for Christmas....

[theblether]

Of course we'll survive..........you shouldn't assume that the UN is incapable of going the same way as the League of Nations........other countries will eventually get sick of the 1945 Status Quo and demand change, and quite frankly, they would be right to do so.

You know that as well as anybody.

[folium]

Of course we'll survive..........you shouldn't assume that the UN is incapable of going the same way as the League of Nations........other countries will eventually get sick of the 1945 Status Quo and demand change, and quite frankly, they would be right to do so.

You know that as well as anybody.

Reform of the UNSC and possibly the veto will eventually happen. No one knows quite how at this stage but the smart money is on enlargement, at the minimum G4, possibly plus African representation and (don't tell Steely Dan) a seat for a Muslim nation. The idea of a EU seat has somewhat faded in recent times!

The UK losing a fraction of its population and a chunk of nice scenery (in the unlikely event of independence for Caledonia) will have no material impact on reform negotiations.

Edited November 1, 2012 by folium

[theblether]

There's a degree of wishful thinking there, however at least we have now established there is a threat to the veto, many people didn't know that or the importance of it.