Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum

[nurofiend]

if i was campaigning for this, i'd just put braveheart on repeat on a public access channel in scotland

[smokie36]

if i was campaigning for this, i'd just put braveheart on repeat on a public access channel in scotland

I've never seen the film.

Some tasty baiting posts gents but I'm not hungry at the moment.

[StreetCowboy]

I was out for a few beers with a friend of mine, a very senior consultant based in Scotland; although he's lived all his life in Scotland, and never considered moving overseas, he was not sure that he would not move to England if we gained independence. His description of Mr Salmond was "a dangerous tin-pot dictator"; I doubt we get the same calibre of Scots in Holyrood as we get in the bigger stage at Westminster.

He was doubting whether the Diminished United Kingdom would still place defence contracts in Scotland, for example; I suggested perhaps in return, we could contract out our independent government to Westminster, and get rid of the Holyrood establishment...

SC

[nurofiend]

if i was campaigning for this, i'd just put braveheart on repeat on a public access channel in scotland

I've never seen the film.

Some tasty baiting posts gents but I'm not hungry at the moment.

it was meant as a harmless joke, take it however which way you like.

btw i haven't even read this thread, so how you consider my post to be baiting you, i have no idea.....certainly no politics or agenda involved from my angle.

just a joke, maybe lighten up a little.

[smokie36]

I was out for a few beers with a friend of mine, a very senior consultant based in Scotland; although he's lived all his life in Scotland, and never considered moving overseas, he was not sure that he would not move to England if we gained independence. His description of Mr Salmond was "a dangerous tin-pot dictator"; I doubt we get the same calibre of Scots in Holyrood as we get in the bigger stage at Westminster.

He was doubting whether the Diminished United Kingdom would still place defence contracts in Scotland, for example; I suggested perhaps in return, we could contract out our independent government to Westminster, and get rid of the Holyrood establishment...

SC

Given the shambles that Edinburgh has managed to create out of a tram system nothing would surprise me. Have you seen the parliament building? Jeez....perhaps one day it will become a five a side football arena or some such.

[smokie36]

if i was campaigning for this, i'd just put braveheart on repeat on a public access channel in scotland

I've never seen the film.

Some tasty baiting posts gents but I'm not hungry at the moment.

it was meant as a harmless joke, take it however which way you like.

btw i haven't even read this thread, so how you consider my post to be baiting you, i have no idea.....certainly no politics or agenda involved from my angle.

just a joke, maybe lighten up a little.

T'was taken as intended....sorry I forgot to add my...

[StreetCowboy]

I was out for a few beers with a friend of mine, a very senior consultant based in Scotland; although he's lived all his life in Scotland, and never considered moving overseas, he was not sure that he would not move to England if we gained independence. His description of Mr Salmond was "a dangerous tin-pot dictator"; I doubt we get the same calibre of Scots in Holyrood as we get in the bigger stage at Westminster.

He was doubting whether the Diminished United Kingdom would still place defence contracts in Scotland, for example; I suggested perhaps in return, we could contract out our independent government to Westminster, and get rid of the Holyrood establishment...

SC

Given the shambles that Edinburgh has managed to create out of a tram system nothing would surprise me. Have you seen the parliament building? Jeez....perhaps one day it will become a five a side football arena or some such.

I feel the quality of debate would not have been worsened by meeting in a church hall,

I expect the tram has benefited from close oversight by politicians... I'm told they're fairly zipping along with the works now that the dispute has been settled in favour of the contractor.

SC

[nontabury]

I was out for a few beers with a friend of mine, a very senior consultant based in Scotland; although he's lived all his life in Scotland, and never considered moving overseas, he was not sure that he would not move to England if we gained independence. His description of Mr Salmond was "a dangerous tin-pot dictator"; I doubt we get the same calibre of Scots in Holyrood as we get in the bigger stage at Westminster.

He was doubting whether the Diminished United Kingdom would still place defence contracts in Scotland, for example; I suggested perhaps in return, we could contract out our independent government to Westminster, and get rid of the Holyrood establishment...

SC

Perhaps Mr Salmonds would prefer to be a big fish in a small pond ,rather than a little fish in a big pond.

[phuketjock]

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

And that is exactly what England has left Scotland with Nothing left to lose.

and for everyones information Scotland actually voted against entering the

EEC ( 51% no vote ) but the English, oops, British government of the day took

us in anyway.

[JimShortz]

If this goes ahead it should at least create a good bunch of building jobs for a few years fixing up the old wall...

[7by7]

and for everyones information Scotland actually voted against entering the

EEC ( 51% no vote ) but the English, oops, British government of the day took

us in anyway.

Really?

Faced with the referendum question, "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" Britons voted "Yes" in most of the 68 administrative counties, regions and Northern Ireland. Only Shetland and the Western Isles voted against the EEC.

(Source)

Scotland; Yes 58.4%; No 41.6% (Source)

[nontabury]

And that is exactly what England has left Scotland with Nothing left to lose.

and for everyones information Scotland actually voted against entering the

EEC ( 51% no vote ) but the English, oops, British government of the day took

us in anyway.[/quote

///////////:::://///////

P.M of the British government Edward Heath, English

However a No of his cabinet were not English,including the deputy P.M. W. Whitelaw,Scottish

At least 4 Welshmen.1 Anglo Irish.

One of the Scottish ministers. G Campbell was responsibly for the negotiation regarding the

British fishing fleet, he did such a good job it dissipated the Scottish fishing fleet,and completely destroyed the two largest deep sea fishing ports in Europe,Hull and Grimsby.

But I don't blame the Scots as a people for what he/they did, many people were misled

Including a sizeable proportion of the Scottish electorate.

[onionluke]

I look forward to the debate preceding the referendum , I may not have a vote in , and anyhow , don't vote it only encourages them !!

[rgs2001uk]

The why is that we have a different set of priorities from England, our social structure is different and our economy is different, to name but three examples. One prime example......a lot of us remember the mortgage rate being raised to 15%, that policy was put in place to cool some of the financial stresses that were affecting the South East, such as the housing boom back at the time.

The thing was, we didn't have the same boom in Scotland, and we didn't have the same stresses. We woke up one morning to find the mortgage had gone through the roof due to a localized South East England problem. I bet you there are guys from all over England reading this and saying, "That's right, it happened to my area too".

"One prime example......a lot of us remember the mortgage rate being raised to 15%, that policy was put in place to cool some of the financial stresses that were affecting the South East, such as the housing boom back at the time."

Nothing whatsoever to do with a housing boom, it was to do with the ERM fiasco which set the Pound at DM 2.95, however the UKs economic performance made it unsustainable. I believe George Soros made a fortune from it.

Britain eventually had to withdraw, and yes I remeber my mortgae payments more than doubling, this was the time when every man and his dog were applying for mortages, and houses were increasing by on average 1,000 pounds per month in some areas.

[folium]

The why is that we have a different set of priorities from England, our social structure is different and our economy is different, to name but three examples. One prime example......a lot of us remember the mortgage rate being raised to 15%, that policy was put in place to cool some of the financial stresses that were affecting the South East, such as the housing boom back at the time.

The thing was, we didn't have the same boom in Scotland, and we didn't have the same stresses. We woke up one morning to find the mortgage had gone through the roof due to a localized South East England problem. I bet you there are guys from all over England reading this and saying, "That's right, it happened to my area too".

"One prime example......a lot of us remember the mortgage rate being raised to 15%, that policy was put in place to cool some of the financial stresses that were affecting the South East, such as the housing boom back at the time."

Nothing whatsoever to do with a housing boom, it was to do with the ERM fiasco which set the Pound at DM 2.95, however the UKs economic performance made it unsustainable. I believe George Soros made a fortune from it.

Britain eventually had to withdraw, and yes I remeber my mortgae payments more than doubling, this was the time when every man and his dog were applying for mortages, and houses were increasing by on average 1,000 pounds per month in some areas.

Shhh.....don't let facts get in the way of a good story of victim hood and oppression!

[theblether]

The why is that we have a different set of priorities from England, our social structure is different and our economy is different, to name but three examples. One prime example......a lot of us remember the mortgage rate being raised to 15%, that policy was put in place to cool some of the financial stresses that were affecting the South East, such as the housing boom back at the time.

The thing was, we didn't have the same boom in Scotland, and we didn't have the same stresses. We woke up one morning to find the mortgage had gone through the roof due to a localized South East England problem. I bet you there are guys from all over England reading this and saying, "That's right, it happened to my area too".

"One prime example......a lot of us remember the mortgage rate being raised to 15%, that policy was put in place to cool some of the financial stresses that were affecting the South East, such as the housing boom back at the time."

Nothing whatsoever to do with a housing boom, it was to do with the ERM fiasco which set the Pound at DM 2.95, however the UKs economic performance made it unsustainable. I believe George Soros made a fortune from it.

Britain eventually had to withdraw, and yes I remeber my mortgae payments more than doubling, this was the time when every man and his dog were applying for mortages, and houses were increasing by on average 1,000 pounds per month in some areas.

Shhh.....don't let facts get in the way of a good story of victim hood and oppression!

Actually hands up.....you're right I was out of the country on one of my expat stints at the time of the ERM meltdown......mea culpa, sorry.

[endure]

The why is that we have a different set of priorities from England, our social structure is different and our economy is different, to name but three examples. One prime example......a lot of us remember the mortgage rate being raised to 15%, that policy was put in place to cool some of the financial stresses that were affecting the South East, such as the housing boom back at the time.

The thing was, we didn't have the same boom in Scotland, and we didn't have the same stresses. We woke up one morning to find the mortgage had gone through the roof due to a localized South East England problem. I bet you there are guys from all over England reading this and saying, "That's right, it happened to my area too".

"One prime example......a lot of us remember the mortgage rate being raised to 15%, that policy was put in place to cool some of the financial stresses that were affecting the South East, such as the housing boom back at the time."

Nothing whatsoever to do with a housing boom, it was to do with the ERM fiasco which set the Pound at DM 2.95, however the UKs economic performance made it unsustainable. I believe George Soros made a fortune from it.

Britain eventually had to withdraw, and yes I remeber my mortgae payments more than doubling, this was the time when every man and his dog were applying for mortages, and houses were increasing by on average 1,000 pounds per month in some areas.

Shhh.....don't let facts get in the way of a good story of victim hood and oppression!

Actually hands up.....you're right I was out of the country on one of my expat stints at the time of the ERM meltdown......mea culpa, sorry.

The interest rate never actually hit 15% anyway. The highest it went was to 12% and that only for one day.

[SimonD]

Bringing the Welsh into it now are we boyo? You incomers need a lesson in manners, so you do. Indeed to goodness...

On these points we are all agreed. Crikey....all we need is a Welshman to clean the loos and the Union is safe.

That's very kind of but we're not interested all the same. Thanks for the offer though. Clean your own bogs...

Have you seen the parliament building? Jeez....perhaps one day it will become a five a side football arena or some such.

The Prestatyn Second XV quite liked it. Better than the windswept wasteland that is Prince's Street. Who was responsible for that?

Dragging centuries old grievances into the present just causes more grief than necessary.

Oh, I don't know. All adds to the fun, doesn't it? Mind you, the Cymry are still waiting for the bloody lot of you to leave our land. Only came over from Frisia because the Romans made a cock of it, what with all their meddling and tomfoolery.

Go on now, boyos, be off with you. Leave the Union and don't look back. Only leaves us original inhabitants of these isles with the English to be rid of. It's taking a while, so it is, and there's a lot of them, mind.

Nothing but misery now the last pit's closed, so there isn't...

Edited October 28, 2012 by SimonD

[theblether]

I need to withdraw my mea culpa......I was right again, the interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90, in response to the Lawson Boom and overheating in the South East housing market.

This introduced the phrase"negative equity" to the British public.

So now it's your turn to apologize. Who's first?

[SimonD]

I need to withdraw my mea culpa......I was right again, the interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90, in response to the Lawson Boom and overheating in the South East housing market.

This introduced the phrase"negative equity" to the British public.

So now it's your turn to apologize. Who's first?

Smartarse!

No, wait a minute....

What has this got to do with....whatever the thread was about? That's what I'd like to know!

Edited October 28, 2012 by SimonD

[rgs2001uk]

I need to withdraw my mea culpa......I was right again, the interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90, in response to the Lawson Boom and overheating in the South East housing market.

This introduced the phrase"negative equity" to the British public.

So now it's your turn to apologize. Who's first?

Well heres my source,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

"interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90"

Sorry my records for that period I no longer keep, but I am fairly confident the interest rates were never 15% for that length of time, perhaps you could provide a source only to satisfy my curiousity.

From what I remember of that period the boom was pre 1988, 1989 made have seen a peak, but by 1990 there was no boom, in fact in many areas house prices had dropped back, hence the negative equity to which you refer.

I remember people walking out of houses and tossing the keys through the letter boxes.

I remember houses were virtually unsellable.

Strange but in some areas houses are worth at least 3 if not 4 times what they were worth back then.

I go back to my original statement, it was to do with the ERM fiasco and nothing whatsover to do with a housing boom, the housing boom came to an abrupt end as the cost of borrowing kept rising.

[theblether]

I need to withdraw my mea culpa......I was right again, the interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90, in response to the Lawson Boom and overheating in the South East housing market.

This introduced the phrase"negative equity" to the British public.

So now it's your turn to apologize. Who's first?

Well heres my source,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

"interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90"

Sorry my records for that period I no longer keep, but I am fairly confident the interest rates were never 15% for that length of time, perhaps you could provide a source only to satisfy my curiousity.

From what I remember of that period the boom was pre 1988, 1989 made have seen a peak, but by 1990 there was no boom, in fact in many areas house prices had dropped back, hence the negative equity to which you refer.

I remember people walking out of houses and tossing the keys through the letter boxes.

I remember houses were virtually unsellable.

Strange but in some areas houses are worth at least 3 if not 4 times what they were worth back then.

I go back to my original statement, it was to do with the ERM fiasco and nothing whatsover to do with a housing boom, the housing boom came to an abrupt end as the cost of borrowing kept rising.

Your source refers to the interest rate being 15%.......also it was you that brought the erm up, I mentioned the interest rate going up in response to local overheating in the South East and it turns out I was correct. When I get to my laptop I'll send links.

[theblether]

I need to withdraw my mea culpa......I was right again, the interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90, in response to the Lawson Boom and overheating in the South East housing market.

This introduced the phrase"negative equity" to the British public.

So now it's your turn to apologize. Who's first?

Smartarse!

No, wait a minute....

What has this got to do with....whatever the thread was about? That's what I'd like to know!

We were discussing earlier how policies put in place to benefit the South East market conditions had a dire effect on other parts of the UK.

Scotland and many other places didn't have the extraordinary house boom of the 1980's. We still got hammered by the 15% rate though, and that caused resentment. Issues like these fed into the psyche at the time that Thatcher wasn't interested in Scotland and it was Thatchers government that poisoned the Well. The idea of the UK being one nation died under her, and using Scotland as the guinea pig for the hated Poll Tax was the final straw for many.

[rgs2001uk]

I need to withdraw my mea culpa......I was right again, the interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90, in response to the Lawson Boom and overheating in the South East housing market.

This introduced the phrase"negative equity" to the British public.

So now it's your turn to apologize. Who's first?

Well heres my source,

http://en.wikipedia....Black_Wednesday

"interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90"

Sorry my records for that period I no longer keep, but I am fairly confident the interest rates were never 15% for that length of time, perhaps you could provide a source only to satisfy my curiousity.

From what I remember of that period the boom was pre 1988, 1989 made have seen a peak, but by 1990 there was no boom, in fact in many areas house prices had dropped back, hence the negative equity to which you refer.

I remember people walking out of houses and tossing the keys through the letter boxes.

I remember houses were virtually unsellable.

Strange but in some areas houses are worth at least 3 if not 4 times what they were worth back then.

I go back to my original statement, it was to do with the ERM fiasco and nothing whatsover to do with a housing boom, the housing boom came to an abrupt end as the cost of borrowing kept rising.

Your source refers to the interest rate being 15%.......also it was you that brought the erm up, I mentioned the interest rate going up in response to local overheating in the South East and it turns out I was correct. When I get to my laptop I'll send links.

The reason I mentioned the ERM is based on my recollections of what was happening at the time, and also from what I have read since,

heres some further reading, the first one is heavy going, however a quick glance at pages 20-21, 34-35 and 38-39 give an insight.

http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/upldbook270pdf.pdf

From the BBC,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2259648.stm

Yet again from the BBC, I draw your attention to the following,

"Were there not frantic government attempts to keep us in the ERM?

Prime Minister John Major and Chancellor Norman Lamont raised interest rates during the day from 10% to 12% to 15% and authorised the spending of billions of pounds in a doomed effort to keep the pound within the range allowed by ERM."

sourced from here,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4249425.stm

Nowhere can I find any reference to rising house prices being the cause, I will conceed just because I cant find a reference doesnt mean some revisionists havent revisted the period and reinvented history to suit their own political agenda. or alos rising house prices did indeed play a part.

I still standby my initial point that interest rates were raised to keep the UK within ERM control limits, and house prices and interest rates were a symptom of gov't policy not the cause of it.

[theblether]

We're at cross purposes here, the rise in the interest rate to 15% pre-dated Black Wednesday by almost 3 years. So yes you are correct that the rise that day was all to do with protecting the Treasury from market speculation and nothing to do with house prices.

However that is irrelevant, I said earlier that the interest rate had risen due to the effects of Lawsons decisions, I am discussing the period 88/89/90. From memory I pointed out that I blamed Lawson for releasing the money supply, he certainly set us off on the path to economic destruction and Gordon Brown knew later that the money supply was out of control, and he failed to do anything about it.

So you are correct but you are off topic, I am correct, on topic, and very annoying.

Just sayin'

[transam]

You lot can forget about interest rates 30 years ago. We are now. What happens if Scotland is alone IS the major factor.

You might see horrendous increases in taxes etc, because you are alone.

Just my thoughts.

[StreetCowboy]

You lot can forget about interest rates 30 years ago. We are now. What happens if Scotland is alone IS the major factor.

You might see horrendous increases in taxes etc, because you are alone.

Just my thoughts.

Not because we're alone, but because we're daft socialists with a poor grip of economics in thrall to a demagogic megalomaniac

[transam]

You lot can forget about interest rates 30 years ago. We are now. What happens if Scotland is alone IS the major factor.

You might see horrendous increases in taxes etc, because you are alone.

Just my thoughts.

Not because we're alone, but because we're daft socialists with a poor grip of economics in thrall to a demagogic megalomaniac

You lot can forget about interest rates 30 years ago. We are now. What happens if Scotland is alone IS the major factor.

You might see horrendous increases in taxes etc, because you are alone.

Just my thoughts.

Not because we're alone, but because we're daft socialists with a poor grip of economics in thrall to a demagogic megalomaniac

Think l agree, but must lookup stuff in my dictionary.

[theblether]

The bad news is, SC is against Independence. The good news is, he's not got a vote anyway.

Happy days!!!

Sorry SC, I'll get my coat

[StreetCowboy]

The bad news is, SC is against Independence. The good news is, he's not got a vote anyway.

Happy days!!!

Sorry SC, I'll get my coat

Maybe I'll move back, just to spite you... only kidding, it's not that bad!

SC

EDIT: I suppose I should have registered to vote while the flat in Glasgow was empty, since I was paying the council tax on it anyway.

Looks like I'll be voting for the Apathy Party again....

Edited October 29, 2012 by StreetCowboy