Face Value...........

[theblether]

Which one ( or more ) of the following statements do you agree with?

1. Face is extraordinarily important in Thailand, more so than any other country.

2. Causing a Thai to lose Face can have very serious consequences.

3. Every time you cause a Thai to lose Face it will have serious consequences.

4. I regularly take things at face value.

5. I am guilty of reacting to things that I take at face value.

6. I am guilty of getting things totally wrong because I take things at face value.

7. I am guilty of compounding my mistake because I cannot admit I got things wrong when I took them at face value.

8. I would be a better person if I learned not to take things at face value.

9. I never take things at face value.

10. The concept of Face in Thailand is over-rated and nonsense.

So how goes it? How many of the above statements did you agree with? Or did you read them at face value then dismiss them? Do you walk on eggshells in Thailand or are you oblivious to the concept of Face?

Just askin'

[Semper]

I like a pretty face.

[trainman34014]

I like a pretty face.

So do I...providing it's on a woman !

[theblether]

I like a pretty face.

So you're not on good terms with your mirror then eh?

[villagefarang]

Pretty face, face in the mirror, same same.

[mania]

I admit I have heard about it but cannot say it has affected how I think.

All this face savings I mean

But I will admit it crossed my mind the other day when I was parking at the mall.

I saw this guy putting on his sun shade.

He kept looking at it & looking at it wondering why it has only one loop & why not two

as in one to loop over each mirror to hold it. Then to make things worse the wind kept flapping

one side over onto the other.

I wanted to go & say hey buddy lemme help you & that thing goes inside your car not outside but,,

That face thing did cross my mind.

So Instead I sat in my truck & took a pic after he gave up & went into the mall

My wife kept laughing & telling me, go help him. She was laughing so hard when I told her no you go because I

am not going to make him lose face

[meom]

As a natural diplomat, easy going and hansom the whole concept of face doesn't apply to me.

In other words I don't have a clue what you're on about.

[mogandave]

I like getting face...

[TommoPhysicist]

Too many lines in the OP.

I gave up half way through.

[mauGR1]

TB, not sure i understand the concept " At face value "

I walk on shells, yep but is really not difficult for me, most of the times i am just flying ( metaphorically speaking )... I gave up the rat race long ago, and i'm working on my false ego and try to make it as aerodinamic as i can.

Just saying ..

[h90]

9 and 10

[theblether]

TB, not sure i understand the concept " At face value "

I walk on shells, yep but is really not difficult for me, most of the times i am just flying ( metaphorically speaking )... I gave up the rat race long ago, and i'm working on my false ego and try to make it as aerodinamic as i can.

Just saying ..

Just sayin' you say eh?

You're Italian so to explain the concept of face value, it's basically the same as first impression. We get it quite a lot on Thaivisa, someone goes firing into a debate with all guns blazing not realizing that their first impression is totally wrong.

There's a highly entertaining thread running just now that some people are taking very seriously and others are treating as light entertainment, as on first impression it would get people's blood boiling, but when you know it's a p*ss take, it's good for a giggle.

The statements / questions in the OP are valid though.........some people will be reading it and nodding in self recognition.

@villagefarang..............that must be a mighty expensive mirror if it makes you look good

[Vale Tudo]

Face is an Asian concept,it's exactly the same in Cambodia,Indonesia etc.

[breadbin]

I'd rather look at a pretty face than a face that looks like a smacked arse!!!

[villagefarang]

@villagefarang..............that must be a mighty expensive mirror if it makes you look good

Not expensive, the trick is to use a very small mirror.

[CharlieH]

I have experienced it more when working in a region China. You had to think very carefully how to handle some situations so as not to cause offense

Particularly when dealing with people in official positions. It is similar in Thailand but not quite so prominent.

I have found in Thailand that some situations need to be approached or worded differently than you would in the west.

I'll try and give a simple example, in the west you might ask or even demand to know why something isnt working or wasnt done.

Here you ask for their help and assistance to solve a problem you have even though they may have created it.

Now the latter could also be used in the west but usually isnt. So I suppose its just a case of slowing it down, losing the forceful or dominant posture we have come to adopt in the west to get anything done and generally being more polite and cool and things work much smoother here. If you try any sort of aggression or temper here they will close down on you and almost ignore you, you can see it in their face and body language. Although I must say for me its not aggression its usually frustration at not being able to communicate and understand as well as I would like, but I'm working on that too.

All makes for an interesting and varied experience dependent on your attitude, and that's what its all about "attitude". Taking things or people or situations at face value can often be all about your own attitude and temperament at the time. How you perceive something is not necessarily how it is and by being slower to react it allows you to evaluate things more and perhaps see it as it was intended.

[WilliaminBKK]

I have experienced it more when working in a region China. You had to think very carefully how to handle some situations so as not to cause offense

Particularly when dealing with people in official positions. It is similar in Thailand but not quite so prominent.

I have found in Thailand that some situations need to be approached or worded differently than you would in the west.

I'll try and give a simple example, in the west you might ask or even demand to know why something isnt working or wasnt done.

Here you ask for their help and assistance to solve a problem you have even though they may have created it.

Now the latter could also be used in the west but usually isnt. So I suppose its just a case of slowing it down, losing the forceful or dominant posture we have come to adopt in the west to get anything done and generally being more polite and cool and things work much smoother here. If you try any sort of aggression or temper here they will close down on you and almost ignore you, you can see it in their face and body language. Although I must say for me its not aggression its usually frustration at not being able to communicate and understand as well as I would like, but I'm working on that too.

All makes for an interesting and varied experience dependent on your attitude, and that's what its all about "attitude". Taking things or people or situations at face value can often be all about your own attitude and temperament at the time. How you perceive something is not necessarily how it is and by being slower to react it allows you to evaluate things more and perhaps see it as it was intended.

I think you nailed it on the head, great post.

[Kilgore Trout]

Lets face facts; the problem is that what Thais consider "losing face" is quite different from what (in my opinion) most of the rest of the world considers it to be.

In my experience, if I am making a mistake and someone points it out with the intention of helping me or for the greater good; I have no call to be upset with them. I can only be upset with myself for making the mistake, I will then try to learn from that so I don't make the same mistake again.

Thais on the other hand (again in my experience) will never accept responsibility, and will consider face to be lost when someone points out their mistake; regardless of the intentions or the greater good or benefit for other people.

I feel very lucky and proud to be from a culture that encourages humility and the idea of learning from our mistakes.

Although I love Thailand, I feel very sorry for people who are unable to do this.

[Rooo]

So nothing to do with " Egg On The Face " ?

[mjj]

The value of my face is quite high because its quite big.

[poanoi]

The issue with face is they can't scam anyone else if you expose them.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The concept of face is much more strongly and widely important here but exists to some extent in all countries, more or less depending on the social-economic context. Try "dissing" a cocky young black guy in front of his friends on the streets of Harlem and see how accepting he is of the insult. . .

And I doubt if Thailand's that much different in degree from many other non-Western cultures.

When I described my perception of the phenomenon to my mum, who grew up in small-town bourgeois Germany, she said it very much reminded her of home, and that it drove her crazy there as well, one of the aspects she liked most about American culture is its directness and seeing the challenge of authority as a healthy thing.

I think the West's disparaging of this cultural more comes from the Christian emphasis on pride as a sin, humility as a virtue. Plus of course liberal democratic capitalism's valuing of efficiency and logic above all else.

If you're trying to "fit in" here for whatever reasons it certainly behooves you to be more sensitive of others' feelings than you need to be in most Western contexts, especially for those with the power to give you whatever it is you're trying to get from them.

If you are self-sufficient and content to remain an outsider culturally then you can continue to run roughshod as you like, and it will only occasionally put your life and limb in danger.

[theblether]

Excellent posts there........and many salient points.

How often have you cringed when you see a farang shouting at, being aggressive, or confrontational with a Thai?

[Payboy]

I like a pretty face.

So do I...providing it's on a woman !

Me too, and I tend to give them free facials.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Payboy