Getting Sick Of Dogooders

[redroo]

Not many pick ups that are over 1 million Baht that I have seen. They also will be hocked up to the eyeballs and then some so can honestly play the poor Thai as they pay every Satang they earn for the truck.

I presume English isn't your first, second or third language ?

haha , like you can write! not !

[David006]

Around the world,Poverty and Religeon often go hand in hand!

I don't appreciate that. Around the world, communism and poverty often go hand in hand, and they are athiests for a large part. See N. Korea vs LOS. Most Western countries are primarily of some religion. In the ME, it's Islam but many are wealthy with oil. I could go on, but you have no right denigrating those who are religious. Such comments can only be divisive.

Don't think he is denigrating the religious so much as the dogma and religious power. Although this is not a political/religious topic I think that the question comes up as to why the catholic church for example is extremely rich and powerful in countries where there are areas of greatest poverty. Go into any church in rural Mexico...poor people giving their pennies to buy candles in a church adorned with gold....rule by fear ...you will go to hell if you don't give type teachings have been around for centuries....And they are not taxed or independently audited ....so they are free to leech from those who can least afford it....rant over...

Edited October 22, 2012 by David006

[jamescollister]

There have been some good replies to this topic, very interesting. It is my birthday and the wife has bought me a bottle of whiskey and I am drunk. Tomorrow I will tell the story of the NGO who built a fish pond out this way. Jim

Hey Buddy Why don,t you go over and see how the Charcoal Makers live in your Issan Idyll.

Don't follow, we make charcoal at the back of the house, as do many of the neighbors. Something bad about charcoal making. Jim

[transam]

There have been some good replies to this topic, very interesting. It is my birthday and the wife has bought me a bottle of whiskey and I am drunk. Tomorrow I will tell the story of the NGO who built a fish pond out this way. Jim

Hey Buddy Why don,t you go over and see how the Charcoal Makers live in your Issan Idyll.

Don't follow, we make charcoal at the back of the house, as do many of the neighbors. Something bad about charcoal making. Jim

Yeh, if l lived next door.

[theslime]

There have been some good replies to this topic, very interesting. It is my birthday and the wife has bought me a bottle of whiskey and I am drunk. Tomorrow I will tell the story of the NGO who built a fish pond out this way. Jim

Hey Buddy Why don,t you go over and see how the Charcoal Makers live in your Issan Idyll.

Don't follow, we make charcoal at the back of the house, as do many of the neighbors. Something bad about charcoal making. Jim

Not much Money making Charcoal Jim, Perhaps as an Exercise, you could pop along to the Charcoal Makers, and see their Wirlie with its cross flow ventilation. (who needs Aircon) and Wonder how many People are all sharing one clapped out Bike, (Helping the Enviroment). The Water Resevoir, down east of the Korat Railway Station not so far from town should open your Heart ,

[David006]

There have been some good replies to this topic, very interesting. It is my birthday and the wife has bought me a bottle of whiskey and I am drunk. Tomorrow I will tell the story of the NGO who built a fish pond out this way. Jim

Hey Buddy Why don,t you go over and see how the Charcoal Makers live in your Issan Idyll.

Don't follow, we make charcoal at the back of the house, as do many of the neighbors. Something bad about charcoal making. Jim

Not much Money making Charcoal Jim, Perhaps as an Exercise, you could pop along to the Charcoal Makers, and see their Wirlie with its cross flow ventilation. (who needs Aircon) and Wonder how many People are all sharing one clapped out Bike, (Helping the Enviroment). The Water Resevoir, down east of the Korat Railway Station not so far from town should open your Heart ,

Not sure what your point is? Have you thought about the value add of speculators , banks ,middle men et al all exploiting people and the environment.?......lots of money maybe but without the the people that actually produce the necessities of life on a daily basis many of us would die off by natural selection........maybe one day.....then hopefully all rich and famous hypercritics can all go sit on a cloud and die of boredom.

[jamescollister]

There have been some good replies to this topic, very interesting. It is my birthday and the wife has bought me a bottle of whiskey and I am drunk. Tomorrow I will tell the story of the NGO who built a fish pond out this way. Jim

Hey Buddy Why don,t you go over and see how the Charcoal Makers live in your Issan Idyll.

Don't follow, we make charcoal at the back of the house, as do many of the neighbors. Something bad about charcoal making. Jim

Not much Money making Charcoal Jim, Perhaps as an Exercise, you could pop along to the Charcoal Makers, and see their Wirlie with its cross flow ventilation. (who needs Aircon) and Wonder how many People are all sharing one clapped out Bike, (Helping the Enviroment). The Water Resevoir, down east of the Korat Railway Station not so far from town should open your Heart ,

Don't think you and me are on the same page here, I am talking about people who come to rural Issan to save the starving farmers in this hell hole. You then bring up slums in BKK, refugees and charcoal makers.

Agree that some jobs are not nice and I have done low paid dirty work in the west, but that has nothing to do with Issan farmers and dogooders. Imagine illegal Mexican farm workers in the US don't have it all that good either, but it is not the topic. Jim

[MAJIC]

Around the world,Poverty and Religeon often go hand in hand!

I don't appreciate that. Around the world, communism and poverty often go hand in hand, and they are athiests for a large part. See N. Korea vs LOS. Most Western countries are primarily of some religion. In the ME, it's Islam but many are wealthy with oil. I could go on, but you have no right denigrating those who are religious. Such comments can only be divisive.

Don't think he is denigrating the religious so much as the dogma and religious power. Although this is not a political/religious topic I think that the question comes up as to why the catholic church for example is extremely rich and powerful in countries where there are areas of greatest poverty. Go into any church in rural Mexico...poor people giving their pennies to buy candles in a church adorned with gold....rule by fear ...you will go to hell if you don't give type teachings have been around for centuries....And they are not taxed or independently audited ....so they are free to leech from those who can least afford it....rant over...

Bang on the nail! David.

[swissie]

It's paradise. After reading through those posts, I can only isolate minor problems. Real problems only arise, when the Farang HAS to return back home. Once past the age of 45 it's basically immpossible to land a job anymore in the so called "West". The bridges are knowingly or unknowingly burnt.

So lets all cope with the minor problems that daily life has to offer in Thailand and be as happy as we can.

Cheers.

[songhklasid]

Tell the yanks to go home, next they'll be wanting to open a Mckraps,next to the rice paddy,I agree with james collister they live a stress free existence where comradery, respect are present, something sadly dissapearing in the west,What amuses me in my travels in isaan, laos is the makeshift abodes with a 3 metre satellite dish costing much more than the house, one thing they love their thai soap operas, slapstick childish quiz shows, I'm sure my girlfriend is using her present life to get as much television hours in as possible,in case she can't enjoy in her next life. ha-ha.

regards songhklasid.

[IsaanAussie]

Time to be a nitpicker. It isnt the making of the charcoal that presents the big problem, it is the health risk in using it in the kitchen.

[mikhill]

I read this and keep thinking about things I could say. Then I have another beer and forget my theme. I've just remembered a comment from my wife's sister last April. She's married to e\an englishman and lives in Hounslow. She has been there about 10 years. She said at Songran when she went Thailand was poor and the Uk was rich. Now she thinks the UK is poor and Thailand is rich (she's from Isaan).

[downtown]

slight exaggeration

[transam]

slight exaggeration

Perhaps not. I know a Thai lady using the UK system that is in deep doo doo cos she did not understand the UK cost of living.

[downtown]

yes, thailand's gdp is much higher than the UK. thailand will never match the likes of south korea, japan, singapore because of the incompetence, laziness and corruption

[IsaanAussie]

Getting back on topic, check this out.

http://www.crowdfundingfacilities.com/

Raise funds to build a peace research centre in the middle east. All sorts of library shelfs and cupboards to store bombs in?

[theslime]

Dogooders as opposed to Baddoer,s, Hmm let me think. Dogooders who try and aleviate the terrible Poverty and Ignorence/ Try and provide Cleaner Water/Sanitation, better schooling and or Christian Religious Instruction are a waste of space in Issan, as the Farmers are seemingly Contented with their Lot and seem to be Doing quite well. The Broken/ Abbused/ Drug Addicted/Landless Peasant /Gypo,s are all Uncomplaining, so Dogooders need not Apply versus the BadDoer,s. eg Loansharks/Family members who steal the Crop and leave their Parents in Poverty . I suppose a lot of Happy Issan People are Rich from lying on their Backs, but as they are taught not to Complain, then I guess we will never know if the Old Drunk that lives in a Hovel is well cared, for as he won,t complain. I have seen a 15 girl co-erced by her Parents to go with any Farang that liked kids but who needs Dogooders? Right.

[jamescollister]

Dogooders as opposed to Baddoer,s, Hmm let me think. Dogooders who try and aleviate the terrible Poverty and Ignorence/ Try and provide Cleaner Water/Sanitation, better schooling and or Christian Religious Instruction are a waste of space in Issan, as the Farmers are seemingly Contented with their Lot and seem to be Doing quite well. The Broken/ Abbused/ Drug Addicted/Landless Peasant /Gypo,s are all Uncomplaining, so Dogooders need not Apply versus the BadDoer,s. eg Loansharks/Family members who steal the Crop and leave their Parents in Poverty . I suppose a lot of Happy Issan People are Rich from lying on their Backs, but as they are taught not to Complain, then I guess we will never know if the Old Drunk that lives in a Hovel is well cared, for as he won,t complain. I have seen a 15 girl co-erced by her Parents to go with any Farang that liked kids but who needs Dogooders? Right.

Sure you are not confusing Issan for Detroit or such city.

Please tell me where in Issan NGOs or god bothers have put in sanitation, or provided clean water supplies. In my little part of hell the Government drills wells and puts up village water tanks, tests the water regularly. District child nurse visits regularly to weight measure and check pre school children. School children are vaccinated [free] As for down and outs, willing to bet more people are feed at soup kitchens and sleep under bridges in the west, than Thais being fed by monks and the only time I see homeless people on bridges is during floods, not under them for shelter.

As to people selling their children to farangs, where is this happening in rural Issan, there a few farangs living in the sticks.

Don't know where you live, but I live in porbably the remotest place in Issan, a jungle border village, there are drunks, there are kids on yabba, just like anywhere in the world, but things can not be all that bad. I have not seen a waterbuffolow polwing rice fields in years, tractor are the go. Yesterday went for a ride in land from the mountains to the flat rice areas and saw not one person bent over harvesting rice. The rice was being harvested by machine.

As for christen religious instruction, the less of that the better, leave the locals to get on with there lives, they don't need to become mirror images of us.

I will await your reply to tell me what the dogooders have infact done here in Issan. Perhaps they could come here and clear some of the unexploded bombs that were dropped,

We don't need Sunday schools and we don't need a fish ponds dug to feed people, when every bit of water has fish and the Government has build dams everywhere and give free fingerlings out to those who want. Jim

[jamescollister]

Perhaps I should have explained something at the beginning, I am not a farang standing outside looking in on the lives of rural Issan farmers. I have no pension, shares, bank accounts, money or any thing in the west and very little in the bank in Thailand. We live off the land, every Baht we spend comes from the soil of Issan.

For many years we lived, on and off in a one room stilt house, all sleeping [wife kids and me ]on a mat, no running water, cold bucket showers. It was not that bad, we were happy as a family. Things have improved as the years went by and we have a house now, new car etc.

When I read or hear the dogooders telling the world that the place is full of downtrodden poverty stricken despair and we, yes me, need their help and guidance, it pisses me off.

I am for all intensive purposes a poor rural Issan farmer and live in a poor farming village, we, family and the village as a whole live happy stress free fun loving lives.

May not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's a long way from some hell hole in Africa. Jim

[canuckamuck]

Fascinating that the term do-gooder is considered derogatory. I am not sure what experiences you are having with outsiders Jim. Do have an issue with all charity applications in Thailand, or is there something specific that sets you off. Or is it just that you want to make the point that Thailand is Utopian to the point that no matter what your situation, every night is an adventure, like Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn playing hooky and floating down the Mississippi on a raft.

[jamescollister]

Fascinating that the term do-gooder is considered derogatory. I am not sure what experiences you are having with outsiders Jim. Do have an issue with all charity applications in Thailand, or is there something specific that sets you off. Or is it just that you want to make the point that Thailand is Utopian to the point that no matter what your situation, every night is an adventure, like Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn playing hooky and floating down the Mississippi on a raft.

Maybe I just don't like people, but I have issues with those that collect money from good hard working people on the grounds they are going to spend it on helping, Then spend it on first class plane tickets. luxury hotels, fine dinning, after which they take some pictures, write story's of poverty, that is not there and collect more money.

I was here during the tsunami, farangs from all over Thailand loaded pick ups with water and tinned food, helped clear roads recover bodies, did their best to help. NGOs booked 5 star rooms and made lists.

As for Thailand being Utopia, it's not, people are generally poorer than the west, but they are not starving.

What if a Thai charity started collecting money to go to Canada to help Indians, posted pictures of them sleeping in the streets, starving on reservations and Canadians hunting them in the forests, would you be offended.

Live is an adventure, like Huck Finn, when the adventure stops, time to die. Jim

[TommoPhysicist]

I am for all intensive purposes a poor rural Issan farmer and live in a poor farming village, we, family and the village as a whole live happy stress free fun loving lives.

May not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's a long way from some hell hole in Africa. Jim

Me too (but not in Issan)!

[Pormax]

I am for all intensive purposes a poor rural Issan farmer and live in a poor farming village, we, family and the village as a whole live happy stress free fun loving lives.

May not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's a long way from some hell hole in Africa. Jim

Me too (but not in Issan)!

Me Too and I do live in Isaan

[citizen33]

But have those who live in villages actually seen any professional 'do-gooders'? I only live in Isaan for a few months a year but I can't say that I have. I've heard about the odd Royal irrigation project, and also about a university project aimed at reducing salt content on the land. I think there are probably a few voluntary agency projects in the HIV/AIDS field, though I've never encountered one first hand. I did have two senior teachers from a Thai Christian school knock on my door a few years ago to ask if I would do some teaching (which I politely declined as I had a full time job already). Other than that I don't see many outsiders roaming around. I accept that there are many media reports that contain stereotypes of Isaan life but that is a different topic.

Edited October 24, 2012 by citizen33

[IsaanAussie]

Perhaps I can add something here. The point is most Isaan folk are self sufficient within their own circle of family and friends, they do not need to be rescued. Will they accept something for nothing, why not, if it was ever offered to me, I would. I think I would sum Jim's position up by saying, life is what you make of your circumstances, but is always only of value if you enjoy it. A true do it to yourself commodity.

White Knights and horses need not apply...

Edited October 24, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[canuckamuck]

Fascinating that the term do-gooder is considered derogatory. I am not sure what experiences you are having with outsiders Jim. Do have an issue with all charity applications in Thailand, or is there something specific that sets you off. Or is it just that you want to make the point that Thailand is Utopian to the point that no matter what your situation, every night is an adventure, like Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn playing hooky and floating down the Mississippi on a raft.

Maybe I just don't like people, but I have issues with those that collect money from good hard working people on the grounds they are going to spend it on helping, Then spend it on first class plane tickets. luxury hotels, fine dinning, after which they take some pictures, write story's of poverty, that is not there and collect more money.

I was here during the tsunami, farangs from all over Thailand loaded pick ups with water and tinned food, helped clear roads recover bodies, did their best to help. NGOs booked 5 star rooms and made lists.

As for Thailand being Utopia, it's not, people are generally poorer than the west, but they are not starving.

What if a Thai charity started collecting money to go to Canada to help Indians, posted pictures of them sleeping in the streets, starving on reservations and Canadians hunting them in the forests, would you be offended.

Live is an adventure, like Huck Finn, when the adventure stops, time to die. Jim

Well I won't say it doesn't happen James, charity can be abused and, it is, but there is good being done just the same. Perhaps Thailand is the best place to be poor, I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. My wife and I help people who need it. We know people who are desperately poor, and others who are sick. There is a elderly widow across the street, my wife makes her food sometimes. She has six kids but they don't come around much. And we have taken in kids who were abandoned. We don't belong to any organization, but if we did that wouldn't make us bad.

You and I have some things in common. I live in a stilt house too just like you, an hour and a half from the nearest city, not far from the Burma border. Except I have renovated it and it is pretty nice now. I was at the tsunami as well, my friends and I hauled bodies around at the morgue.

About the Indians, you wouldn't do well calling them Indians in Canada. We refer to them as First Nations people officially, and it wouldn't be hard to take pictures of them sleeping on the streets or starving on reservations, as that is reality for many of them. We don't hunt them in the forests though, That was the Americans.

There are many organizations involved with First Nations people in the way you suggested, so no I would not be offended

[NeverSure]

About the Indians, you wouldn't do well calling them Indians in Canada. We don't hunt them in the forests though, That was the Americans.

Uh, well, as long as we're off topic... Canada didn't become a country until 1867, long after many of the Indian wars. In fact, it didn't become completely sovereign from the British until 30 years ago with the Canada Act!!!!!1 It was the Canadians' ancestors - the British and French who killed all of the Indians. The Americans had their revolution against the British 100 years earlier so we're dealing with a technicality here. If anyone really believes that the Europeans who became Canadians didn't slaughter Indians (as they were historically called) he's dreaming. Canada's land was taken from the Indians by force by Europeans who are now called Canadians.

Edited October 24, 2012 by NeverSure

[IsaanAussie]

CAM,

Well done. A perfect expression of the inner circles of family, friends and kind hearted neighbours that are the essence of Isaan village life. You are right, you have a lot in common with Jim, and with me. Enjoy!

[jamescollister]

Fascinating that the term do-gooder is considered derogatory. I am not sure what experiences you are having with outsiders Jim. Do have an issue with all charity applications in Thailand, or is there something specific that sets you off. Or is it just that you want to make the point that Thailand is Utopian to the point that no matter what your situation, every night is an adventure, like Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn playing hooky and floating down the Mississippi on a raft.

Maybe I just don't like people, but I have issues with those that collect money from good hard working people on the grounds they are going to spend it on helping, Then spend it on first class plane tickets. luxury hotels, fine dinning, after which they take some pictures, write story's of poverty, that is not there and collect more money.

I was here during the tsunami, farangs from all over Thailand loaded pick ups with water and tinned food, helped clear roads recover bodies, did their best to help. NGOs booked 5 star rooms and made lists.

As for Thailand being Utopia, it's not, people are generally poorer than the west, but they are not starving.

What if a Thai charity started collecting money to go to Canada to help Indians, posted pictures of them sleeping in the streets, starving on reservations and Canadians hunting them in the forests, would you be offended.

Live is an adventure, like Huck Finn, when the adventure stops, time to die. Jim

Well I won't say it doesn't happen James, charity can be abused and, it is, but there is good being done just the same. Perhaps Thailand is the best place to be poor, I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. My wife and I help people who need it. We know people who are desperately poor, and others who are sick. There is a elderly widow across the street, my wife makes her food sometimes. She has six kids but they don't come around much. And we have taken in kids who were abandoned. We don't belong to any organization, but if we did that wouldn't make us bad.

You and I have some things in common. I live in a stilt house too just like you, an hour and a half from the nearest city, not far from the Burma border. Except I have renovated it and it is pretty nice now. I was at the tsunami as well, my friends and I hauled bodies around at the morgue.

About the Indians, you wouldn't do well calling them Indians in Canada. We refer to them as First Nations people officially, and it wouldn't be hard to take pictures of them sleeping on the streets or starving on reservations, as that is reality for many of them. We don't hunt them in the forests though, That was the Americans.

There are many organizations involved with First Nations people in the way you suggested, so no I would not be offended

You sound like a good man, with a good heart and do what you can to help. As I try to do, there are poor in the riches countries and poor in Thailand. We or I often take the old or new yet to be born to hospital.

As for Native Americas, I spent my younger years in Pembertan, north of Whistler BC. My sister's god parents were Indian, and there was an Indian line in the bar, whites one side Indians the other. Old man was a bit of a rebel. Jim

[IsaanAussie]

About the Indians, you wouldn't do well calling them Indians in Canada. We don't hunt them in the forests though, That was the Americans.

Uh, well, as long as we're off topic... Canada didn't become a country until 1867, long after many of the Indian wars. In fact, it didn't become completely sovereign from the British until 20 years ago with the Canada Act!!!!!1 It was the Canadians' ancestors - the British and French who killed all of the Indians. The Americans had their revolution against the British 100 years earlier so we're dealing with a technicality here. If anyone really believes that the Europeans who became Canadians didn't slaughter Indians (as they were historically called) he's dreaming. Canada's land was taken from the Indians by force by Europeans.

So here we are. One thing Canada and Australia share, among indigenous populations destroyed by European precepts and other side issues is a commodity based currency. We both catch cold when China sneezes and walk when the Thai car industry gets flooded out. Another thing we share is a difference in values to Thailand. Excuse the spelling and language ignorance, Viva La Difference