4 Feb Anti-thaksin Demonstration Thread

[chownah]

I was just thinking about this claim that 19 million thais don't read the bangkok post.

yes. this may be true since many thais don't understand english. but it is hard to believe that the 19 million people who voted for thaksin don't read some newspaper. right?

my guess is that many of these people read the thai language newspaper. ..which means they are aware of the sondhi vs. thaksin issue through that newspaper.

am I incorrect in thinking this way?

I just can't believe that many people in thailand are illiterate.

From own observations - and not necessarily accurate – its only the people living in the main city conurbations have access to Thai newspapers, although even in the cities I think you will find there are many who never bother to read anything except maybe the lurid headlines and pics on the front pages of the Thai Rath. However, once you get out of the cities, (where most of the population still live), there are virtually no newspapers whatsoever, and absolutely no-one has access to, or reads newspapers – English language or Thai. All their information comes from government controlled T.V. and radio. I suspect many of them are barely aware of the Sondhi demonstrations, and certainly they will have little knowledge of what Thaksin and his cohorts have really been up to over the past few years. Of course they know the government is corrupt – but what government hasn’t been corrupt? It’s a way of life and they couldn’t care a less. Historically, all government protests have been championed by academics, students, unions, civil right activists and the educated middle classes who do read the newspapers. Not the majority of the 19 million that Thaksin is so proud of quoting

I don't know what Thailand you are talking about but in the Thailand where I live Thai language newspapers are available everywhere. How do you think people find out the winning lottery numbers!!! To say that the unavailability of newspapers is the cause of something is an idea from fantasy land....if people don't read newspapers its because they are not interested...newspapers are available everywhere!!!!! It seems like you are really grasping at straws to try to make your political point....maybe you are wrong.

[Jai Dee]

PM Thaksin: No more rally at the Royal Plaza

In regards to the protest led by the media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) scheduled to take place at the Royal Plaza, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said such rally should take place at some other place not the Royal plaza since the location is considered to be a Royal Precinct and the rally will increase traffic congestion.

Prime Minister Thaksin says the demonstration should proceed in peace and remain under laws and regulations.

Moreover, the premier would like those who have different perspectives and the media to discuss the issues with him but all parties are urged to be rational and think of the nation’s benefits.

PM Thaksin expressed confidence that the general public still have confidence in the government and insisted the demonstration on the 4th of February did not have any affect on the government.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 Febuary 2006

[chownah]

The kind of people that were there from the start of the tearing down of the Berlin wall, rather than the people that just turned up for the pop concert afterwards...

Excellent quote

Yeah, Sondhi knows all about this.....that's why he had a rock concert Feb 4.....if he scheduled it for after the downfall it would probably be years away.....or maybe I'm wrong and Toxin will be gone in a week......what do all of you sharp political analysts think? How long before Toxin is gone 5 days?...5 weeks?....5 months?.....5 years?....I don't think he'll last 5 decades but with the advances in modern medicine, who know?....with his money he certainly could afford the state of the art rejuvinators as soon as they are available....maybe he'll clone himself and we can look forward to 5 more centuries of his august presence!!!!

[Jai Dee]

The democratic spirit

Heroes or hooligans? Protestors demand change

Natnapa Praireanrom was cradling her seven-month-old baby girl in her arms as she and husband Vichai, an engineer, pushed their way across the crowd to get to a spot near the stage set up by organizers of the anti-government rally led by media firebrand Sondhi Limthongkul on Saturday.

“My aunt asked me not to bring her granddaughter to the rally,” Natnapa said. “Well, this is my baby and we are in this together, through thick and thin.”

Luckily for the infant, her first exposure to political activism was harmless, as the protest remained peaceful. The family’s participation in the rally signified the willingness of many Thais to put their lives on the line to express their disapproval of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s leadership, despite rumors and warnings that the rally would be marred by violence.

People from all walks of life converged on Bangkok’s Royal Plaza to join in calls for Thaksin to step down. Some came from the distant provinces.

Korn-uma Pongnoi arrived at the Royal Plaza at around 2pm along with six friends from Bonok, a village in Prachuap Khiri Khan. They began their journey at dawn on Saturday and felt lucky to have arrived ahead of their neighbors who were stalled by police at checkpoints.

“We took the train so no one stopped us,” Korn-uma said. “We have friends from our village who traveled by bus or car and were blocked by police on their way here.”

Korn-uma said she decided to join the rally because she could no longer stand the Thaksin government. “We are fed up with Thaksin. All the corruption and lies.”

Her group came prepared to stay at the Royal Plaza until the conclusion of the protest. “We steamed three sacks of sticky rice and cooked 40kg of salted pork to eat here,” Korn-uma said. “We also brought several bottles of water. We are ready.”

Sixty-six-year-old farmer Udom Kamphaken said he came by bus from Khon Kaen. “The police stopped our bus at three checkpoints including Sara Buri. We were questioned for about 10 minutes at each checkpoint.” Their village chief also advised them against joining the protest after receiving calls from district officials.

“But we made it here,” Udom beamed.

Bangkok’s middle class came. Pramarnlert Archariyapanyakul, a lawyer, distributed leaflets he had prepared about “suspicious legislative actions” by the Thaksin government. “I want the public to know that Thailand’s legislation process has been exploited by the Thaksin government. They have modified laws and regulations, including those concerning lèse-majesté, to serve their personal ends,” he said.

Pramarnlert, however, worried that many people may find the controversies fueling the protest difficult to understand. “I was in that [October 14, 1973] march, too. Then, we fought for democracy and against military dictators. Now, we are in a democracy, and we are fighting the prime minister and his government that favors the interests of a few families and friends.”

Some foreigners came to watch Thais express dissent against their government.

Australian tourist David Niylor took a stroll at the plaza. “I came to observe the protest and I am quite surprised at how peaceful the people are. They are not radical or violent.”

Niylor, who is here on a vacation, said: “I think Thaksin’s actions are unethical and [he] has no integrity. He is similar to some leaders in other countries, like Italy, where leaders are more concerned about corporate benefits than the [national interest].”

A police officer on special duty at the Royal Plaza on Saturday went about his tasks with nary a worry that the gathering would turn violent.

Lt Cpl Worachai Sornnoi from the Nang Lueng Police Station was among 400-500 police officers from Bangkok’s nine police stations assigned to keep watch over the rally.

“There are about 500 of us on standby in case the crowd turns violent,” Worachai said as he distributed leaflets advising people to stay out of trouble. “But there seems to be a slim chance it will turn violent.”

But then, many didn’t come to participate in a bloody encounter like lawyer Jintana, who wore a bright yellow head scarf to the rally.

“I want Thaksin to realize that he has already damaged the country and the Thai people. This time, he should listen to the public and step down,” stressed Jintana, who asked that her last name not be used.

She looked at the crowd and said she was happy to join the anti-Thaksin event.

“I expected to see many people, and here they are, just as I hoped. If only Thaksin was here, I would tell him that he may be good at running his companies, but he is unfit to be the country’s leader.”

Source: ThaiDay - 6 February 2006 13:28

[Jai Dee]

Sondhi declares protest a victory

Sondhi Limthongkul yesterday morning proclaimed the anti-Thaksin rally a resounding success.

After a day of raising their voices in protest, more than 1,000 anti-government demonstrators rose with the sun yesterday morning following a night spent at the Royal Plaza.

At daybreak, the protest’s organizer, Sondhi Limthongkul, addressed his followers, who at the peak of Saturday’s rally numbered more than 100,000. Many of those at the plaza yesterday morning had slept there after a midnight candlelight vigil.

“The final victory belongs to every person who gathered here. We proved to the naysayers that we are civilized. We gathered in peace and did nothing to disturb the peace of society,” said Sondhi in a voice strained from several hours of speaking and leading chants of “Thaksin Get Out.”

The political commentator, who for the past eight months has waged a war of words with Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, claimed the peaceful protest a victory. He said not only had a petition appealing to HM the King to remove Thaksin been delivered, but the country’s leading general had arranged a late-night meeting with Sondhi to seemingly express his support.

On Saturday night, Sondhi led thousands of protestors – angered by perceived government corruption – to the Si Sao Theves house of Gen Prem Tinsulanonda, president of the Privy Council. Sondhi handed over to Gen Prem’s aide, Vice Admiral Pajul Traprateep, a petition intended for HM the King. Gen Prem was attending a funeral that evening in Nakon Ratchasima.

Sondhi said he had a “highly significant” meeting with army Commander-in-Chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratakalin at 1.30am yesterday.

Sondhi also thanked police for doing their part in keeping the peace and thanked rural teachers for attending. He called on teachers to tell their pupils about the “evils of Thaksin’s government.”

Many protestors, and even Sondhi himself, yesterday said they hoped Thaksin would resign by the end of the week.

Prapansak Kamolphet, a longtime activist, predicted the prime minister’s term in office would end by this afternoon. “But it is not important whether Thaksin’s future ends today or not, because we have won this fight. We won with democracy. We practiced our rights like civilized people perfectly,” Sondhi said. “[Thaksin’s] karma and retribution are approaching. If he goes this afternoon, it will be less painful, but let him suffer with these feelings for another week, let him be upset. Eventually he will go.”

Following Sondhi’s speech, Luang Poo Buddha Issara, the abbot at Wat Ornoi Dhamma Issara in Nakhon Pathom province. led 99 monks to receive morning alms. The abbot has been a vocal supporter of Sondhi, but has also urged him to negotiate with the government. The rally concluded with the playing of the King’s Anthem and one last round of “Thaksin Get Out” chants.

On Saturday, February 11 Sondhi and Sarosha Pornudomsak will host a special edition of Thailand This Week, at the Royal Plaza, despite earlier vows from Sondhi that the rally would be his “last act.”

Source: ThaiDay - 6 February 2006

[Maestro]

Sondhi said the facts that the Office of the His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary received a petition to His Majesty Saturday night after office hours and that Privy Council Chairman had his house open to Sondhi to submit a letter; and that the army chief received letter from the movement should be viewed as victories.

I think the loser was supposed to be Toxin, isn't that fairly obvious in the context?

If you say so. But how does the fact that three other persons behaved in a normal, civilised, correct manner make the Prime Minister a loser?

-----------------

Maestro

[womble]

Saturday's rally was very peaceful, I wonder if this will attract more people to the next rally as many may have been put off think things could turn ugly.

What do you think?

[thedude]

good grief people, why can't you accept that thaksin is still the prefered leader by the majority of voters in this country? they came, they partied, they left. general Prem was not even around to accept the petition. if HM really wanted to get rid of the PM, don't you think he would have made Prem present to receive the petition? the 1.40 a.m. delivery to the army general was definitely not the original plan and was a last resort face-saving solution. read between the lines people.

the monarchy has placed importance on the setting up of a democratic constitution. the drafting of the present constitution was chaired by Khun Anand after the 92 coup attempt. it is a balanced and well-drafted document. i don't think HM would want to intervene and reverse so much progress unless the government is really shooting people in the streets.

this is a democratically elected government that won by a landslide barely 12 months ago. if you read Sonthi's 5 point petition without bias, you would realise that its based entirely on opinion and conjecture, how can a democratically elected government be replaced by a list of accusations such as this? it would be a dark day in history when something as ludicrous as this is allowed to happen.

a bangkokian anti-thaksin friend of mine decided not to turn up after seeing the type of protesters turning up on t.v. were not the middle-class/university types she saw marching in 1992, when things were truly serious. she even commented on how they appear to have had to make up the numbers.

i have made the point repeatedly on this forum that everything you read about Thaksin is cooked up by the media, bent on revenge and paranoid of being gagged by the government. professional standards of objective news reporting are totally lacking in this country. reporters act like spoilt brats spinning up scandals and blowing up stories. the present unhappiness is really amongst those who can read the news but can't discern between truth and spin.

i hope things will stabalise and we can continue with our lives. let the PM do his job and i can bet that thailand is not going to fall to pieces.

[TAWP]

On the contrary, that is exactly what is happening. It all going to pieces. But not perhaps in the areas you care for. So you spit at everyone that voice their opinion, just like Taksin.

Relative of yours?

[womble]

good grief people, why can't you accept that thaksin is still the prefered leader by the majority of voters in this country? they came, they partied, they left. general Prem was not even around to accept the petition. if HM really wanted to get rid of the PM, don't you think he would have made Prem present to receive the petition? the 1.40 a.m. delivery to the army general was definitely not the original plan and was a last resort face-saving solution. read between the lines people.

the monarchy has placed importance on the setting up of a democratic constitution. the drafting of the present constitution was chaired by Khun Anand after the 92 coup attempt. it is a balanced and well-drafted document. i don't think HM would want to intervene and reverse so much progress unless the government is really shooting people in the streets.

this is a democratically elected government that won by a landslide barely 12 months ago. if you read Sonthi's 5 point petition without bias, you would realise that its based entirely on opinion and conjecture, how can a democratically elected government be replaced by a list of accusations such as this? it would be a dark day in history when something as ludicrous as this is allowed to happen.

a bangkokian anti-thaksin friend of mine decided not to turn up after seeing the type of protesters turning up on t.v. were not the middle-class/university types she saw marching in 1992, when things were truly serious. she even commented on how they appear to have had to make up the numbers.

i have made the point repeatedly on this forum that everything you read about Thaksin is cooked up by the media, bent on revenge and paranoid of being gagged by the government. professional standards of objective news reporting are totally lacking in this country. reporters act like spoilt brats spinning up scandals and blowing up stories. the present unhappiness is really amongst those who can read the news but can't discern between truth and spin.

i hope things will stabalise and we can continue with our lives. let the PM do his job and i can bet that thailand is not going to fall to pieces.

Your absolutley right, I couldn't agree more.

The CTX scandal was all fabricated, how could there be any corruption in such a transparent project, especially when the current administration has been so honest and open about all similar projects.

And as for the Asset concealment case a few years back, well that was an honest mistake, just like the wrong box that was ticked on a multi billion baht contract a couple of weeks ago.

And how could anyone think that ammendments to foriegn ownership % quota's in telecoms could be anything more than a simple coincedence in timing.

"i have made the point repeatedly on this forum that everything you read about Thaksin is cooked up by the media"

Glad someone agrees with me.

[sierra01]

Did Mr T plan his visit/ mobile cabinet meeting/ freebie give away session in CM to coincide with the rally over the weekend?

He's a CM good ole boy and has a lot of support there, just what he needs to massage his ego and soothe the hurt feelings caused by that nasty Mr Sondhi

[womble]

I have a feeling that banning the rally at Royal Plaza may be a very bad tactical move, this will only increase peoples interest as it makes it look like there's something to hide, especially after having it stopped at Suan Luang too.

There's plenty of places to hold a Rally, and i'm sure the organisers will come up with something which will be worse for the government than having it at the same location again.

One thing for sure, the International media is following this. I have seen more coverage on CNN and BBC World than on Thai TV, ok only a short piece, but the fact it is making worldwide news is significant in itself.

And not good for investor confidence, especially at a time when the PM is looking for big time foriegn investment in mega projects.

It's looking like the 3 main cores of the previous election's manifesto are very much off track.

1.) Privitisation of State owned Industries

2.) US FTA

3.) Mega Projects

also not forgetting the UN Secretary General position which is just not gonna happen.

[thedude]

good grief people, why can't you accept that thaksin is still the prefered leader by the majority of voters in this country? they came, they partied, they left. general Prem was not even around to accept the petition. if HM really wanted to get rid of the PM, don't you think he would have made Prem present to receive the petition? the 1.40 a.m. delivery to the army general was definitely not the original plan and was a last resort face-saving solution. read between the lines people.

the monarchy has placed importance on the setting up of a democratic constitution. the drafting of the present constitution was chaired by Khun Anand after the 92 coup attempt. it is a balanced and well-drafted document. i don't think HM would want to intervene and reverse so much progress unless the government is really shooting people in the streets.

this is a democratically elected government that won by a landslide barely 12 months ago. if you read Sonthi's 5 point petition without bias, you would realise that its based entirely on opinion and conjecture, how can a democratically elected government be replaced by a list of accusations such as this? it would be a dark day in history when something as ludicrous as this is allowed to happen.

a bangkokian anti-thaksin friend of mine decided not to turn up after seeing the type of protesters turning up on t.v. were not the middle-class/university types she saw marching in 1992, when things were truly serious. she even commented on how they appear to have had to make up the numbers.

i have made the point repeatedly on this forum that everything you read about Thaksin is cooked up by the media, bent on revenge and paranoid of being gagged by the government. professional standards of objective news reporting are totally lacking in this country. reporters act like spoilt brats spinning up scandals and blowing up stories. the present unhappiness is really amongst those who can read the news but can't discern between truth and spin.

i hope things will stabalise and we can continue with our lives. let the PM do his job and i can bet that thailand is not going to fall to pieces.

Your absolutley right, I couldn't agree more.

The CTX scandal was all fabricated, how could there be any corruption in such a transparent project, especially when the current administration has been so honest and open about all similar projects.

And as for the Asset concealment case a few years back, well that was an honest mistake, just like the wrong box that was ticked on a multi billion baht contract a couple of weeks ago.

And how could anyone think that ammendments to foriegn ownership % quota's in telecoms could be anything more than a simple coincedence in timing.

"i have made the point repeatedly on this forum that everything you read about Thaksin is cooked up by the media"

Glad someone agrees with me.

i don't think even the media was suggesting that Thaksin was personally on the take for the CTX scandal. this is thailand, what is so special about there being corrupt officials in government? why is everyone so shocked that government officials were on the take for the airport project? i'm just glad the airport is finally being built after 40 years of talk by previous governments. there was so much vested interest by government coalitions in the past, that they couldn't even get past deciding on the location of the airport, let alone getting it built.

the telecom industry is liberalising under the CAT, this means that 49% ownership will apply across the board. this is part of the continuing trend of liberalisation seen in the telecommunications industry in countries all across the globe. international companies will not seriously consider coming in with a 25% cap on ownership, because they will lose management control too easily. my impression is that far from "changing the rules", Thaksin was merely aware of the changing environment, and cleverly cashed in like the opportunist businessman that he is. that he sold his business a couple of days after the rules changed is just very good business planning in my books. it was a private business deal that has nothing to do with compromising national interests.

[womble]

I wasn't implying Thaksin directly profited from CTX, I said "The current administration",

What he is guilty of though is failing to repremand or even seriously investigate those suspected, whilst at the same time waging a so called war on corruption.

"International companies will not seriously consider coming in with a 25% cap on ownership"

Exactly you said it, so it seems a bit of a coincidence that as soon as another Telecom Giant is looking like taking on foriegn investment he lowers the cap, whilst just a few days before the Shin sale it is raised back up to 49%.

Does this not strike you as a little odd?

Or is it another unluckily timed coinceidence.

There seems to be a lot!

[marquess]

I have just seen a live interview on CNN with Sondhi. The caption underneath said that Thaksin had banned any protests near the Royal Palace. Sondhi was saying that, though Thaksin had received thev votes of 19 million peope, he went on to say that most of those people were poor and had little education, and really didn't know what was going on in government. I doubt whether any of that interview will be aired on gov controlled Thai TV. Nice though that it is getting international coverage.

[womble]

Media blackouts, baning the rally at Royal Plaza, all points to a very paranoid regime!

If Sondhi is being interviwed live on CNN then it's pretty obvious that it's being taken very seriously by media outside of Thailand.

When you censor news and keep the truth from people, you have to be prepared for a large backlash when the truth finally gets out.

We're not at that point yet, but you can be sure international news teams will be at this Saturdays rally.

Edited February 6, 2006 by womble

[tettyan]

I was just thinking about this claim that 19 million thais don't read the bangkok post.

yes. this may be true since many thais don't understand english. but it is hard to believe that the 19 million people who voted for thaksin don't read some newspaper. right?

my guess is that many of these people read the thai language newspaper. ..which means they are aware of the sondhi vs. thaksin issue through that newspaper.

am I incorrect in thinking this way?

I just can't believe that many people in thailand are illiterate.

From own observations - and not necessarily accurate – its only the people living in the main city conurbations have access to Thai newspapers, although even in the cities I think you will find there are many who never bother to read anything except maybe the lurid headlines and pics on the front pages of the Thai Rath. However, once you get out of the cities, (where most of the population still live), there are virtually no newspapers whatsoever, and absolutely no-one has access to, or reads newspapers – English language or Thai. All their information comes from government controlled T.V. and radio. I suspect many of them are barely aware of the Sondhi demonstrations, and certainly they will have little knowledge of what Thaksin and his cohorts have really been up to over the past few years. Of course they know the government is corrupt – but what government hasn’t been corrupt? It’s a way of life and they couldn’t care a less. Historically, all government protests have been championed by academics, students, unions, civil right activists and the educated middle classes who do read the newspapers. Not the majority of the 19 million that Thaksin is so proud of quoting

I don't know what Thailand you are talking about but in the Thailand where I live Thai language newspapers are available everywhere. How do you think people find out the winning lottery numbers!!! To say that the unavailability of newspapers is the cause of something is an idea from fantasy land....if people don't read newspapers its because they are not interested...newspapers are available everywhere!!!!! It seems like you are really grasping at straws to try to make your political point....maybe you are wrong.

Dear Chownah and Haha,

Let me give you a brief overview about the Thai media.

Most Thais (over 80%) rely on terrestrial TV as their primary source of news. That means Channels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and ITV. Channel 9 is run by MCOT, a gov't-owned enterprise, Channel 11 is run by the PR Dept of the Prime Ministers' Office, Channel 5 is run by the Army, Channel 3 is run by the Maleenont family, who are members of TRT (a member of their family sits in Thaksin's cabinet) and ITV is run by Shin Corp. Channel 7 is run by a private company, but since they operate the station under concession from the Army, they're on a pretty short leash.

Someone mentioned the Nation Channel as one that covered anti-gov't news pretty well. Well, Nation Channel is not a terrestrial station, it is availible only in Bangkok over the MMDS frequency (which requires a special antenna) and in Chiangmai for WeTV cable customers. Nation Channel used to be broadcast over UBC Cable, but UBC is owned by the CP Group (supporters of Thaksin) and Nation Channel was kicked off of UBC during Thaksin's first term.

About 10-15% of Thais rely on newspapers primarily for their news. These people are likely concentrated in the capital, since Bangkok accounts for the majority of all newspaper circulation in Thailand. Furthermore, out in the provinces, readers have much less choice. The only newspapers that you can count on reaching every corner of every amphoe in the country are "Thai Rath" and "Daily News", which are basically tabloids heavy on sensationalist crime and entertainment news and light on substance.

Less than 5% of Thais rely on radio for news. These again are likely concentrated in BKK since there arn't very many radio stations to choose from upcountry, and the ones that are available are almost all run by gov't agencies.

So do you recognize a pattern here? Most Thais upcountry (unless they have internet access) cannot easily access independent sources of news or information. A friend says that anytime she mentions stuff that Thaksin has been accused of to her family (who read Thai Rath and don't get CATV) are completely clueless. And that family is pretty well-educated; I'd hate to see what those with less education might be aware (or not aware) of.

Edited February 6, 2006 by tettyan

[penzman]

I just saw it as well, I believe it was retransmitted on ASTV. He still had the raspy voice he got from the rally.

-Rural population and the poor don't really understand politics as they are misled through the majority of the media while others are told to shut up.

-About constitutional moves, he said that the PM won't change the constitution since he is often using it's loopholes.

I tried finding the interview on the CNN site but could not find it. It may be available through their video feeds though.

[Mobi]

I was just thinking about this claim that 19 million thais don't read the bangkok post.

yes. this may be true since many thais don't understand english. but it is hard to believe that the 19 million people who voted for thaksin don't read some newspaper. right?

my guess is that many of these people read the thai language newspaper. ..which means they are aware of the sondhi vs. thaksin issue through that newspaper.

am I incorrect in thinking this way?

I just can't believe that many people in thailand are illiterate.

I don't know what Thailand you are talking about but in the Thailand where I live Thai language newspapers are available everywhere. How do you think people find out the winning lottery numbers!!! To say that the unavailability of newspapers is the cause of something is an idea from fantasy land....if people don't read newspapers its because they are not interested...newspapers are available everywhere!!!!! It seems like you are really grasping at straws to try to make your political point....maybe you are wrong.

Maybe I am - But you try going to any village in the North East that is more than a kilometer or so from the nearest town and try to find a newspaper - you won't... they are simply not available everywhere!!!!! I have been there - I know. I am not trying to make a political point -it is a fact - whether you choose to believe it or not. I'd better sign off on this thread - there's too much misguided animosity here.

[dannishgung]

The Sondi guy from begining to end just shouting and conspiring to outst Thaksin. Does he or the opponent offer any better mandate or reform to the ordinary people to the society, that convince the ordinary people and the society that they can make the country and the poor ordinary people's life better than Thaksin's government???? No. Nothing at all except trying to creat a mess to conspire removing Thaksin through unconstitutional means.

I am no fan of this Thaksin or this absurd Thai nation, but I have know lots of ordinary Thai people's life are affected by Thaksin's policies. These ordinary Thais once never have the chance to go to hospital, waiting to die or waiting to heal naturally, now have the chance to see a docter in the public hospitals for 30 bahts across the country.

The millions of dirt poor moto taxi drivers do not have to be fear of the moto taxi mafias anymore. These guys before told me they had to pay something like 10000-20000 to get a jacket and then pay monthly like 1000 to the local moto taxi mafias. But Thaksin nearly got rid all of them. These guys for sure appreciste Thaksin, who did something no one can do for decades.

Thaksin also got rid of lots of outrageous loan sharks that ply on the dirt poors. These loan sharks charge up to 20-50 percent monthly interest to the most needed poors and when they fail to pay, the loan mafias take their lands, houses, motorbikes, TV, whatever, now my Thai friends told me these loan sharks still exist, but no longer can exploit the loaners like before with 20-50% monthly outrageous loans. Now its something like for 10000 bahts, pay 12000 bahts in 60-90 days. Thaksin did not eradicate the loan sharks but put them very tamed.

Thailand is still a nation of 90% in poverty. The best mandate for this nation is improve the life of the vast majority of poors before anything else. Because democracy can not feed the poors, when all the poors have things to eat, then democracy will come naturally.

Thasin is at least trying to do a few things for the country's poor majority, instead of the Sondi guy can only shout slogans. But comes to any better mandates than Thaksin to feed the poors, to improve the life of the poors, Sondi do not care or concern in any way except to conspire to tumble the government.

[Mobi]

I was just thinking about this claim that 19 million thais don't read the bangkok post.

yes. this may be true since many thais don't understand english. but it is hard to believe that the 19 million people who voted for thaksin don't read some newspaper. right?

my guess is that many of these people read the thai language newspaper. ..which means they are aware of the sondhi vs. thaksin issue through that newspaper.

am I incorrect in thinking this way?

I just can't believe that many people in thailand are illiterate.

From own observations - and not necessarily accurate – its only the people living in the main city conurbations have access to Thai newspapers, although even in the cities I think you will find there are many who never bother to read anything except maybe the lurid headlines and pics on the front pages of the Thai Rath. However, once you get out of the cities, (where most of the population still live), there are virtually no newspapers whatsoever, and absolutely no-one has access to, or reads newspapers – English language or Thai. All their information comes from government controlled T.V. and radio. I suspect many of them are barely aware of the Sondhi demonstrations, and certainly they will have little knowledge of what Thaksin and his cohorts have really been up to over the past few years. Of course they know the government is corrupt – but what government hasn’t been corrupt? It’s a way of life and they couldn’t care a less. Historically, all government protests have been championed by academics, students, unions, civil right activists and the educated middle classes who do read the newspapers. Not the majority of the 19 million that Thaksin is so proud of quoting

I don't know what Thailand you are talking about but in the Thailand where I live Thai language newspapers are available everywhere. How do you think people find out the winning lottery numbers!!! To say that the unavailability of newspapers is the cause of something is an idea from fantasy land....if people don't read newspapers its because they are not interested...newspapers are available everywhere!!!!! It seems like you are really grasping at straws to try to make your political point....maybe you are wrong.

Dear Chownah and Haha,

Let me give you a brief overview about the Thai media.

Most Thais (over 80%) rely on terrestrial TV as their primary source of news. That means Channels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and ITV. Channel 9 is run by MCOT, a gov't-owned enterprise, Channel 11 is run by the PR Dept of the Prime Ministers' Office, Channel 5 is run by the Army, Channel 3 is run by the Maleenont family, who are members of TRT (a member of their family sits in Thaksin's cabinet) and ITV is run by Shin Corp. Channel 7 is run by a private company, but since they operate the station under concession from the Army, they're on a pretty short leash.

Someone mentioned the Nation Channel as one that covered anti-gov't news pretty well. Well, Nation Channel is not a terrestrial station, it is availible only in Bangkok over the MMDS frequency (which requires a special antenna) and in Chiangmai for WeTV cable customers. Nation Channel used to be broadcast over UBC Cable, but UBC is owned by the CP Group (supporters of Thaksin) and Nation Channel was kicked off of UBC during Thaksin's first term.

About 10-15% of Thais rely on newspapers primarily for their news. These people are likely concentrated in the capital, since Bangkok accounts for the majority of all newspaper circulation in Thailand. Furthermore, out in the provinces, readers have much less choice. The only newspapers that you can count on reaching every corner of every amphoe in the country are "Thai Rath" and "Daily News", which are basically tabloids heavy on sensationalist crime and entertainment news and light on substance.

Less than 5% of Thais rely on radio for news. These again are likely concentrated in BKK since there arn't very many radio stations to choose from upcountry, and the ones that are available are almost all run by gov't agencies.

So do you recognize a pattern here? Most Thais upcountry (unless they have internet access) cannot easily access independent sources of news or information. A friend says that anytime she mentions stuff that Thaksin has been accused of to her family (who read Thai Rath and don't get CATV) are completely clueless. And that family is pretty well-educated; I'd hate to see what those with less education might be aware (or not aware) of.

THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH. I COMPLETELY AGREE. (THOUGHT I WAS GOING CRAZY) QED

[britmaveric]

Ok if you get rid of fearless leader what is the alternative? No one seems to know....?????

Edited February 6, 2006 by britmaveric

[penzman]

Ok if you get rid of fearless leader what is the alternative? No one seems to know....?????

If anyone has the power to know, I suggest you first run to get a lottery ticket and then give us the answer.

[womble]

Just because there is no obvious successor it does not mean that there isn't one. People often step up only when a situation arises that puts them in a strong position to lead.

Many argue that who-ever takes over could infact turn out to be even more corrupt, which may well turn out to be true, but that doesn't mean that a corrupt leader should be tolerated in any way shape or form.

Thailand will have to just keep dismissing those that prove through their actions they are unworthy of leading and keep trying and hoping to find someone that truly cares more for the people than for their own well being.

[chownah]

Dear Chownah and Haha,

Let me give you a brief overview about the Thai media.

Most Thais (over 80%) rely on terrestrial TV as their primary source of news. That means Channels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and ITV. Channel 9 is run by MCOT, a gov't-owned enterprise, Channel 11 is run by the PR Dept of the Prime Ministers' Office, Channel 5 is run by the Army, Channel 3 is run by the Maleenont family, who are members of TRT (a member of their family sits in Thaksin's cabinet) and ITV is run by Shin Corp. Channel 7 is run by a private company, but since they operate the station under concession from the Army, they're on a pretty short leash.

Someone mentioned the Nation Channel as one that covered anti-gov't news pretty well. Well, Nation Channel is not a terrestrial station, it is availible only in Bangkok over the MMDS frequency (which requires a special antenna) and in Chiangmai for WeTV cable customers. Nation Channel used to be broadcast over UBC Cable, but UBC is owned by the CP Group (supporters of Thaksin) and Nation Channel was kicked off of UBC during Thaksin's first term.

About 10-15% of Thais rely on newspapers primarily for their news. These people are likely concentrated in the capital, since Bangkok accounts for the majority of all newspaper circulation in Thailand. Furthermore, out in the provinces, readers have much less choice. The only newspapers that you can count on reaching every corner of every amphoe in the country are "Thai Rath" and "Daily News", which are basically tabloids heavy on sensationalist crime and entertainment news and light on substance.

Less than 5% of Thais rely on radio for news. These again are likely concentrated in BKK since there arn't very many radio stations to choose from upcountry, and the ones that are available are almost all run by gov't agencies.

So do you recognize a pattern here? Most Thais upcountry (unless they have internet access) cannot easily access independent sources of news or information. A friend says that anytime she mentions stuff that Thaksin has been accused of to her family (who read Thai Rath and don't get CATV) are completely clueless. And that family is pretty well-educated; I'd hate to see what those with less education might be aware (or not aware) of.

I don't appreciate your condescending attitutde towards me. I may be just a rice farmer in the north but I am aware of alot of what happens. Let me give you a brief overview about what life is like in a rural Thai village. People here have access to Thai newspapers. Most people here are not interested in keeping up on political news. Most people here know about corruption in the gov't because it pervades gov't at all levels....even at the level that we villagers deal with....we know who gets the contracts for build the pavement in our village and we know who they know and why they got the contract. We know why a political party will pay us to go to big events....We know why they will offer 10 times the amount for 'diesel money' for bringing your pickup full of friends to the rally.....We know why people run for Parliament...its to make money....we know that making money is the reason to go into politics and we know how much an MP's salary is and we know that after a few years they are rich and we know where the money comes from....these are not secrets. We know that all the politicians are corrupt and we know that includes Toxin......we have never experienced any other kind of gov't and we know that this is the Thai way for politics and we know that Thai ways are best so we don't really care that Toxin is corrupt because so is everyone else from Toxin right on down to the falang who pays the traffic cop for an infraction just like all sensible Thai people do.

Now I will repeat what I said in my previous post. It is very simple. The poster I was replying to tried to make it sound like newspapers are not avilable in most of Thailand outside Bangkok and I want to repeat that this is total rubbish...total and utter rubbish. Newspapers are available almost everywhere. Every soi in every village has little stores selling stuff to the neighborhood and many of them carry newspaper.....and if people wanted them to carry the Bangkok Post or the Nation then they would get them....but they don't care....they don't want them.....they have no problem with this gov't as far as I can see....so why would they want to waste their time an money dealing with something that is not a problem (their point of view as I see it) when they have plenty of things in their lives that are problems which is where they try to focus their resources.

This is what I see around me.....maybe it is not representative of every village in every region of Thailand...maybe I'm deluded....maybe not.

Chownah

PS Did I forget to say the the notion that newspapers are not available everywhere in Thailand is total and utter rubbish?....well it is.

Chownah

[Mobi]

. How do you think people find out the winning lottery numbers!!!

I forgot to tell you. They all crowd around the local village TV set and watch the draw on television. Takes hours, and they have endless fun Nothing else to do as no newspaers to read.

(The Kaman down theroad gets the results off his ipStar satellite connection - a free gift from his beloved leader.)

[penzman]

Maybe they're simply too busy trying to survive... (Chownah's farmers)

*post edited

Maybe you know more about what's going on in my village than I do. It seems to me that they simply don't care. There is a big party going on right now in the village....people aren't thinking about the gov't....they're getting drunk and listening to music and their friends sing. Toxin's gov't is not a big issue around here as far as I can tell and I've been looking for some bad feelings toward the gov't......of course maybe you know better about what's happening here.

Dear Chownah and Haha,

Let me give you a brief overview about the Thai media.

Most Thais (over 80%) rely on terrestrial TV as their primary source of news. That means Channels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and ITV. Channel 9 is run by MCOT, a gov't-owned enterprise, Channel 11 is run by the PR Dept of the Prime Ministers' Office, Channel 5 is run by the Army, Channel 3 is run by the Maleenont family, who are members of TRT (a member of their family sits in Thaksin's cabinet) and ITV is run by Shin Corp. Channel 7 is run by a private company, but since they operate the station under concession from the Army, they're on a pretty short leash.

Someone mentioned the Nation Channel as one that covered anti-gov't news pretty well. Well, Nation Channel is not a terrestrial station, it is availible only in Bangkok over the MMDS frequency (which requires a special antenna) and in Chiangmai for WeTV cable customers. Nation Channel used to be broadcast over UBC Cable, but UBC is owned by the CP Group (supporters of Thaksin) and Nation Channel was kicked off of UBC during Thaksin's first term.

About 10-15% of Thais rely on newspapers primarily for their news. These people are likely concentrated in the capital, since Bangkok accounts for the majority of all newspaper circulation in Thailand. Furthermore, out in the provinces, readers have much less choice. The only newspapers that you can count on reaching every corner of every amphoe in the country are "Thai Rath" and "Daily News", which are basically tabloids heavy on sensationalist crime and entertainment news and light on substance.

Less than 5% of Thais rely on radio for news. These again are likely concentrated in BKK since there arn't very many radio stations to choose from upcountry, and the ones that are available are almost all run by gov't agencies.

So do you recognize a pattern here? Most Thais upcountry (unless they have internet access) cannot easily access independent sources of news or information. A friend says that anytime she mentions stuff that Thaksin has been accused of to her family (who read Thai Rath and don't get CATV) are completely clueless. And that family is pretty well-educated; I'd hate to see what those with less education might be aware (or not aware) of.

I don't appreciate your condescending attitutde towards me. I may be just a rice farmer in the north but I am aware of alot of what happens. Let me give you a brief overview about what life is like in a rural Thai village. People here have access to Thai newspapers. Most people here are not interested in keeping up on political news. Most people here know about corruption in the gov't because it pervades gov't at all levels....even at the level that we villagers deal with....we know who gets the contracts for build the pavement in our village and we know who they know and why they got the contract. We know why a political party will pay us to go to big events....We know why they will offer 10 times the amount for 'diesel money' for bringing your pickup full of friends to the rally.....We know why people run for Parliament...its to make money....we know that making money is the reason to go into politics and we know how much an MP's salary is and we know that after a few years they are rich and we know where the money comes from....these are not secrets. We know that all the politicians are corrupt and we know that includes Toxin......we have never experienced any other kind of gov't and we know that this is the Thai way for politics and we know that Thai ways are best so we don't really care that Toxin is corrupt because so is everyone else from Toxin right on down to the falang who pays the traffic cop for an infraction just like all sensible Thai people do.

Now I will repeat what I said in my previous post. It is very simple. The poster I was replying to tried to make it sound like newspapers are not avilable in most of Thailand outside Bangkok and I want to repeat that this is total rubbish...total and utter rubbish. Newspapers are available almost everywhere. Every soi in every village has little stores selling stuff to the neighborhood and many of them carry newspaper.....and if people wanted them to carry the Bangkok Post or the Nation then they would get them....but they don't care....they don't want them.....they have no problem with this gov't as far as I can see.... so why would they want to waste their time an money dealing with something that is not a problem (their point of view as I see it) when they have plenty of things in their lives that are problems which is where they try to focus their resources

This is what I see around me.....maybe it is not representative of every village in every region of Thailand...maybe I'm deluded....maybe not.

Chownah

PS Did I forget to say the the notion that newspapers are not available everywhere in Thailand is total and utter rubbish?....well it is.

Chownah

They're simply too busy trying to survive...

Edited February 6, 2006 by penzman

[Heng]

Dear Chownah and Haha,

Let me give you a brief overview about the Thai media.

Most Thais (over 80%) rely on terrestrial TV as their primary source of news. That means Channels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and ITV. Channel 9 is run by MCOT, a gov't-owned enterprise, Channel 11 is run by the PR Dept of the Prime Ministers' Office, Channel 5 is run by the Army, Channel 3 is run by the Maleenont family, who are members of TRT (a member of their family sits in Thaksin's cabinet) and ITV is run by Shin Corp. Channel 7 is run by a private company, but since they operate the station under concession from the Army, they're on a pretty short leash.

Someone mentioned the Nation Channel as one that covered anti-gov't news pretty well. Well, Nation Channel is not a terrestrial station, it is availible only in Bangkok over the MMDS frequency (which requires a special antenna) and in Chiangmai for WeTV cable customers. Nation Channel used to be broadcast over UBC Cable, but UBC is owned by the CP Group (supporters of Thaksin) and Nation Channel was kicked off of UBC during Thaksin's first term.

About 10-15% of Thais rely on newspapers primarily for their news. These people are likely concentrated in the capital, since Bangkok accounts for the majority of all newspaper circulation in Thailand. Furthermore, out in the provinces, readers have much less choice. The only newspapers that you can count on reaching every corner of every amphoe in the country are "Thai Rath" and "Daily News", which are basically tabloids heavy on sensationalist crime and entertainment news and light on substance.

Less than 5% of Thais rely on radio for news. These again are likely concentrated in BKK since there arn't very many radio stations to choose from upcountry, and the ones that are available are almost all run by gov't agencies.

So do you recognize a pattern here? Most Thais upcountry (unless they have internet access) cannot easily access independent sources of news or information. A friend says that anytime she mentions stuff that Thaksin has been accused of to her family (who read Thai Rath and don't get CATV) are completely clueless. And that family is pretty well-educated; I'd hate to see what those with less education might be aware (or not aware) of.

I don't appreciate your condescending attitutde towards me. I may be just a rice farmer in the north but I am aware of alot of what happens. Let me give you a brief overview about what life is like in a rural Thai village. People here have access to Thai newspapers. Most people here are not interested in keeping up on political news. Most people here know about corruption in the gov't because it pervades gov't at all levels....even at the level that we villagers deal with....we know who gets the contracts for build the pavement in our village and we know who they know and why they got the contract. We know why a political party will pay us to go to big events....We know why they will offer 10 times the amount for 'diesel money' for bringing your pickup full of friends to the rally.....We know why people run for Parliament...its to make money....we know that making money is the reason to go into politics and we know how much an MP's salary is and we know that after a few years they are rich and we know where the money comes from....these are not secrets. We know that all the politicians are corrupt and we know that includes Toxin......we have never experienced any other kind of gov't and we know that this is the Thai way for politics and we know that Thai ways are best so we don't really care that Toxin is corrupt because so is everyone else from Toxin right on down to the falang who pays the traffic cop for an infraction just like all sensible Thai people do.

Now I will repeat what I said in my previous post. It is very simple. The poster I was replying to tried to make it sound like newspapers are not avilable in most of Thailand outside Bangkok and I want to repeat that this is total rubbish...total and utter rubbish. Newspapers are available almost everywhere. Every soi in every village has little stores selling stuff to the neighborhood and many of them carry newspaper.....and if people wanted them to carry the Bangkok Post or the Nation then they would get them....but they don't care....they don't want them.....they have no problem with this gov't as far as I can see....so why would they want to waste their time an money dealing with something that is not a problem (their point of view as I see it) when they have plenty of things in their lives that are problems which is where they try to focus their resources.

This is what I see around me.....maybe it is not representative of every village in every region of Thailand...maybe I'm deluded....maybe not.

Chownah

PS Did I forget to say the the notion that newspapers are not available everywhere in Thailand is total and utter rubbish?....well it is.

Chownah

Pretty good points, Chownah. Also agree that the reach/distribution of the major papers is fairly complete (not to say that there surely must be some places that it'd be hard to find one with daily delivery.... places without 7-11's and without the local yi puo Chinese general goods seller equivalent).

[sriracha john]

if HM really wanted to get rid of the PM, don't you think he would have made Prem present to receive the petition? the 1.40 a.m. delivery to the army general was definitely not the original plan and was a last resort face-saving solution. read between the lines people.

the monarchy has placed importance on the setting up of a democratic constitution. the drafting of the present constitution was chaired by Khun Anand after the 92 coup attempt. it is a balanced and well-drafted document. i don't think HM would want to intervene and reverse so much progress unless the government is really shooting people in the streets.

Any speculation about what the His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej is or is not thinking or any actions He does or does not take is grossly inappropriate and has no place in this discussion.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Edited February 6, 2006 by sriracha john

[womble]

Snoh puts challenge to Thaksin

Published on Feb 06 , 2006

Wang Nam Yen faction leader Snoh Thienthong challenged Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra Monday to expel all of his faction members following the resignation of two ministers who belong to the faction.

Snoh moved after Information Technology and Communication Minister Sora-at Klinpratoom and Culture Minister Uraiwan Thienthong - his wife - stepped down last week.

Snoh denied reports that Sora-at resigned in return for favours he owed to Snoh. Sora-at had stood down for ideological reasons, he said. "Everyone volunteers to work for the country and should return the gratitude to the land and the people by sticking to the righteousness."

Snoh said that in his long years in politics he had never known a situation when a respected national figure who always bestows degrees for major universities would ask a "particular man" to quit. He was referring to a meeting at the PM's house last week when the premier was allegedly advised to stand down.

Thaksin insisted on Saturday he would resign only if His Majesty the King told him so.

Snoh said if Thakin expelled him, he would make all Wang Nam Yen faction members resign with him - then seek justice with the Constitution Court.

He refused to say how many MPs would follow him. He said he would join with Wang Nam Yom faction to call for a change to the Constitution.

Nation