Do You Regret Moving To Thailand?

[ding]

Recently I read a post on another forum that said that she asked many expats if they regretted moving.

Nearly unanomously, they said they only regret not having relocated sooner!

Is this the norm? Do you, or anyone you know, regret leaving your home country?

[warriors]

only got my retirement visa 6 months ago so too soon to tell at times I miss the company do not have any fharlang friends as such yet, my soon has been with me for the last 3 months and leaves next Sunday. Then I will start to feel what ever I feel. Sorry I can not help yet

Sorry I ment my Son has been with me for the last 3 months and I miss the company of other fharlanges not the Bar grazers type. Not meaning any thing wrong with them it is I am not really into the bar bull sh-t stuff.

[doctormann]

Recently I read a post on another forum that said that she asked many expats if they regretted moving.

Nearly unanomously, they said they only regret not having relocated sooner!

Is this the norm? Do you, or anyone you know, regret leaving your home country?

If I ever have any doubts I just remind myself of what life would be like back in Mr Blair's utopia!

Thailand is not a perfect paradise and we all, I hope, realise that, but taking everything on balance I would much sooner be here than there. The only thing that I really don't like here is the traffic and that's just because I'm in Pattaya. It wouldn't be any better in a large UK connnurbation I guess so I just accept it.

It would be nice to get residency, eventually. That way I could be sure of staying here if the GBP goes down the tubes relative to the THB.

DM

[GuestHouse]

I lived and worked in Thailand for 12 years (full expat deal with a major international corporation).

I left for greener pastures when my employers cut the deal and have not looked back on that decision with any thing but the knowledge that we did the right thing.

It's not what is good for me, it is also what is good for my wife, and she is thoroughly enjoying her life overseas. Opening her mind and view of the world.

We came back to Thailand for the first time in two years over Christmas, had a great time, visiting family and friends, spending time working on the land where we plan to retire. But it was when I met with old expat friends from the office that I realised how much life moves on.

You'll hear it said from time to time 'Guys who won't go home and guys who can't go home'. I met old (and not so old) friends like that, stuck in a what they regard as a comfort zone. Talking up the deal they are on, which I know is crap because I have a copy of the deal, and constantly jostling for position so as not to be the top of the demob list.

You want an expat job in Thailand? Think long and hard about it.

I love Thailand, we have some very good friends in Thailand (including I'm pleased to say one member and his wife here on Thai Visa). I thoroughly enjoyed most of my experiences working there, and we plan to retire in Thailand but my experience of Thailand was that of a professional expat, and there are aspects of professional expat life in Thailand that I don't like and I am very pleased to be away from.

Too often guys are too desperate to stay, and it is at that point things in Thailand turn for the worst.

Edited February 4, 2006 by GuestHouse

[sbk]

Interesting perspective GH. I, too have a different perspective having come here right out of university (well, worked 6 months in Taiwan first), fell in love, got married and pretty much stayed. It is kind of scary for me that I have spent nearly my entire adult life here, not just in Thailand but right here on this very same spot!

Regrets? Sure, wishing I could move back? Not often. That said, I do regret not being able to spend more time with my now aging parents, watching my niece and nephews grow up. But, that is probably about it.

I didn't flee my country because I hated it, nor did I leave to live my life overseas, my circumstances just kind of happened to me.

[OldAsiaHand]

....I didn't flee my country because I hated it, nor did I leave to live my life overseas, my circumstances just kind of happened to me.

Yes, thanks for that. I think the truth of it is that most of us can find ourselves in that description.

That's the reason I find the local Caucasian why-don't-you-pack-up-and-go-back-where-you-came-from-if-you-don't-love-Thailand crowd so terribly annoying. We don't all live in the place we do because it is so very wonderful. If real, actual life worked that way, we'd all be in Maui, wouldn't we?

[skylar]

Maui? I'd rather live in Bangkok, but due to my circumstances, I am staying in Sydney until my career has built up enough to go back. I didn't come to Thailand by choice, and I didn't leave by choice, but when I go back I will be able to choose to stay or go somewhere else. It's the one luxury I haven't managed to obtain quite yet! I miss England in some ways... and in others I don't. I've moved around too much to ponder about it for too long anyway.

[Gary A]

I originally came to Thailand for the work. Then I went back to the US. I came back to Thailand because I wanted to. It is now my home and I don't intend to leave.

[gurkle]

....I didn't flee my country because I hated it, nor did I leave to live my life overseas, my circumstances just kind of happened to me.

If real, actual life worked that way, we'd all be in Maui, wouldn't we?

Good to know that we in Thailand are lucky enough to be your second choice

[Misplaced]

Regrets? Sure, wishing I could move back? Not often. That said, I do regret not being able to spend more time with my now aging parents, watching my niece and nephews grow up.

Been here living in the US for the past 28 years, I've always have "the need" to go back to LOS. Am I dumb?, my family think so. To me, there's seems to be somthing missing. For years I've been planning a move to LOS; sellling off my assets, drain all my accounts, go back and buy a decent house and live happily everafter. However, the 1 thing that always keep coming back to me is exactly what SBK says "regret not being able to spend more time with my now aging parents, brother & sisters watching my niece and nephews grow up". That alone summed-up my thoughts. Scary to think I wouldn't see any of them for years at a time, and when they need my help, whose going to be there?

Thank goodness for Thaivisa, I'm finally have a place to vent my thoughts

As Hamlet once said "to move or not to move that is the question"

[chownah]

I'd suggest that anyone who isn't living in a place that they think is a wonderful place should start looking for that wonderful place and once you've found it....move. Where I live in Thailand is an absolutely wonderful place for me and frankly I can't hardly imagine a better place for me. Someday I may change and then I'll have to go looking for that better place...but I doubt it.

About people regreting having moved here....probably most people who regret moving here have left.

[Tippaporn]

Having spent most of my life in the U.S. I decided to move to Thailand not out of a dissatisfaction of where I was at but because the ambience of Thailand seemed to agree more with the essence of who I am. In that sense, and due to the vast difference between east and west, Thailand seemed to offer the closest thing to dying and being reborn again. Not that I felt a need to shed a past life; just that a new and fresh life seemed to blossom for me here. I felt like a kid all over again, where the entire world was once more so much eye candy with endless avenues at exploring new and amazing things. That, I believe, will last me the rest of my life.

I must admit that the U.S., while I will always remain fond of it, no longer holds my interest. Sort of like leaving the place where you were reared upon reaching adulthood. It's nostalgic to a degree when you go back but you wouldn't want to return permanently.

[autonomous_unit]

...

I didn't flee my country because I hated it, nor did I leave to live my life overseas, my circumstances just kind of happened to me.

This is the closest to my situation so far, with one twist. We are really here out of necessity and not out of desire. I think I mentioned before that my wife was one of those "sponsored" overseas scholars, so our story is like sbk's except my wife was contractually obligated to return to Thailand. Barring that, we would be living sbk's story where my wife went to the US and accidentally fell in love and decided to stay. I never travelled to Thailand as a tourist; I came here once to meet the future in-laws and the second time when we made our quasi-permanent relocation. I do not require all that much of my environment, as I tend to carry my own world around with me inside my head... My biggest problem with Thailand is that I frustratingly cannot read nor speak in Thai yet, so I feel pretty isolated at times.

So, I do not regret it per se, as I made the choice to stay with my wife. Frequently enough, I wish things were different, but not so much that I regret meeting her! If not for her sponsored education, we would never have met. My home now is wherever she is. I would prefer that she was in a nice alpine setting with thin dry air, dark blue skies, and cool temperatures to offset the blazing sun. BKK will have to do for now.

[greenwanderer108]

Do you regret moving to Thailand?

No.

Do I know others who do regret moving here?? Not personally...

You'd probably have better luck finding these types if you surveyed Bang Kwang prison. Sure you'll find a lot of farangs there full of regret.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE

Do you regret moving to Thailand?

No, but sometimes that I left my chosen career as a petroleum engineer, to become an Engish teacher. Although it was better in many ways, financially it certainly wasn't.

[Thetyim]

Came here 12 years ago and have never gone back to Blighty.

I love it here

LOS is not for everyone. It isn't paradise but it is much better than UK.

I don't think you will find many dissenters here.

If you have left LOS with bad feelings you are not likely to be spending much time on TV

[OldAsiaHand]

....I didn't flee my country because I hated it, nor did I leave to live my life overseas, my circumstances just kind of happened to me.

If real, actual life worked that way, we'd all be in Maui, wouldn't we?

Good to know that we in Thailand are lucky enough to be your second choice

Second choice? Oh no, man. Not even close.

[ding]

So many thoughtful replies -thanks!

For me, I'm not a partier nor running from anything. I've been in the same area all my life (mid 40's)

I've seen the US take a drastic turn recently, however, and it's very depressing and sad.

I've been visiting Thailand for 12 years but didn't come to Thailand to see Thailand, I was heading on but got stuck and fell in love with LOS. It was a great fit for me. I love the people and the weather. Not to mention the beautiful beaches and ladies.

Now I think of Thailand often. I've known I'd retire here for years, but now would like to move early if possible. I'm a single dad and that is a challenge beyond not being independantly wealthy. I can retire early in 8 years, then wait for my US$36/day Social Security to kick in 7 years later. I am speculating that things will take a tumble in the US and am selling my home of 25 years this Spring. Sad.

So, wanting to make lemonade from lemons for my kid, if not myself -I want to move as soon as feasible.

Edited February 5, 2006 by ding

[Soju]

I lived and worked in Thailand for 12 years (full expat deal with a major international corporation).

...

You want an expat job in Thailand? Think long and hard about it.

...

I thoroughly enjoyed most of my experiences working there, and we plan to retire in Thailand but my experience of Thailand was that of a professional expat, and there are aspects of professional expat life in Thailand that I don't like and I am very pleased to be away from.

I've been working outside of my home country (USA) for most of my adult life as a professional expat. I'm hoping to soon move to Bangkok to continue my same career with a major international corporation, working in management with everyone under me being Thai. So I'm quite curious what are the aspects of professional expat life in Thailand that you don't like? I've lived in many countries in Asia and find pet peeves in each country that can annoy me at times, but never anything to drive me back to my home country. I'm especially curious about things unique to Thailand that you didn't like or any other words of warning you have for someone looking to do what you've already done.

[greenwanderer108]

So many thoughtful replies -thanks!

For me, I'm not a partier nor running from anything. I've been in the same area all my life (mid 40's)

I've seen the US take a drastic turn recently, however, and it's very depressing and sad.

I've been visiting Thailand for 12 years but didn't come to Thailand to see Thailand, I was heading on but got stuck and fell in love with LOS. It was a great fit for me. I love the people and the weather. Not to mention the beautiful beaches and ladies.

Now I think of Thailand often. I've known I'd retire here for years, but now would like to move early if possible. I'm a single dad and that is a challenge beyond not being independantly wealthy. I can retire early in 8 years, then wait for my US$36/day Social Security to kick in 7 years later. I am speculating that things will take a tumble in the US and am selling my home of 25 years this Spring. Sad.

So, wanting to make lemonade from lemons for my kid, if not myself -I want to move as soon as feasible.

And how about your offspring?? Do you imply you will retire with them here or will they be past 18-on-your-own mark as goes the tradition?

[bwillis]

I lived and worked in Thailand for 12 years (full expat deal with a major international corporation).

...

You want an expat job in Thailand? Think long and hard about it.

...

I thoroughly enjoyed most of my experiences working there, and we plan to retire in Thailand but my experience of Thailand was that of a professional expat, and there are aspects of professional expat life in Thailand that I don't like and I am very pleased to be away from.

I've been working outside of my home country (USA) for most of my adult life as a professional expat. I'm hoping to soon move to Bangkok to continue my same career with a major international corporation, working in management with everyone under me being Thai. So I'm quite curious what are the aspects of professional expat life in Thailand that you don't like? I've lived in many countries in Asia and find pet peeves in each country that can annoy me at times, but never anything to drive me back to my home country. I'm especially curious about things unique to Thailand that you didn't like or any other words of warning you have for someone looking to do what you've already done.

Soju,

My experience may be out of date, as I worked here as an expat '90-95, but I speak passable Thai, and am married to one. The working part is typically more difficult than in many Asian countries (I've worked around Asia last 17yrs) due to the big cultural differences, lack of English language skills, work ethic, and general inefficiency of many staff. You'll need to learn some the culture (and language) and read up a bit so as not to make some big mistakes with staff at the outset. Do NOT underestimate the cultural differences, as a few unintended mistakes can foil you early on. You can still get things done, make changes, and be successful, but you'll need a fair amount of patience (Jai yen yen) with people. There are some good books now about Farang management in Thailand in the local stores.

What was difficult for me at the time: Thais did not want to take responsibility for anything. Afraid to speak up. Had to do many lower level things myself. Had to closely follow up on everything to ensure it was really done. Corruption in everything. (I worked for a transportation company) My job meant spending a lot of time in the car - really sucked, even with a driver. I suspect the staff in a major corp will be better qualified than in a smaller company, so that should help. Also, computerization will have helped a lot since I worked here.

You might get sick of the traffic/pollution/noise/maddening inefficiency, so take holidays to more sane environments, and take short trips out more often. If you're married, well, good luck avoiding the ladies. It's not easy...

That's the nutshell version.

Good luck

[Tippaporn]

<snip>

There are some good books now about Farang management in Thailand in the local stores.

<snip>

Any recommendations? I'd be most interested.

[Soju]

bwillis,

Thanks a lot for those pointers. Right now I'm in Korea and the work ethic of Koreans can sometimes be amazing. When push comes to shove and something needs to be done yesterday, it isn't hard to motivate them and get them to work all night, weekends, and holidays without any extra pay! I already figured that Thais would be no where near this motivated and that I'm going to need to figure on everything taking at least two or three times longer to accomplish. Based on things I've already read on this forum I was sort of expecting that lack of taking responsibility will be a problem. But I already have to do a lot of low-level stuff in my current job as even in Korea that is very often a problem finding people who can do something or are willing to take responsibility for low-level decision making. So I think I can handle that without much adjustment.

I do have a Thai wife, and she's been teaching me Thai but I'm still hardly past square one, so I know I'm going to have to concentrate on that, even though the entire staff will be able to speak decent English. As to avoiding the ladies, I think I have some pretty strong willpower, and just hope it's enough. My time will be spent almost exclusively in the office, so thankfully I won't have much concerns over traffic.

I'll have a look at the bookstores for some books about Farang managment of Thais. Any titles you can recommend off the top of your head? As you say, it's easy to get off on the wrong foot. And then extremely difficult if not impossible to ever recover fully. I've already been reading as much as I can about Thai culture, but need to get more information, particularly as it relates to the workplace.

Thanks again for the advice.

[skylar]

My father told me that his staff on occasion came to work late, drunk or not at all and had to put up with a multitude of excuses every time and had to fire someone once (he says he hated doing it, too). However it didn't happen often because they were employees of a foreign company, and also because they liked my father. He said they always do better for those they like than those they don't like and his business unit was profitable for the years it was in operation (up until the Asian Economic Crisis, that is).

[meadish_sweetball]

bwillis,

Thanks a lot for those pointers. Right now I'm in Korea and the work ethic of Koreans can sometimes be amazing. When push comes to shove and something needs to be done yesterday, it isn't hard to motivate them and get them to work all night, weekends, and holidays without any extra pay! I already figured that Thais would be no where near this motivated and that I'm going to need to figure on everything taking at least two or three times longer to accomplish. Based on things I've already read on this forum I was sort of expecting that lack of taking responsibility will be a problem. But I already have to do a lot of low-level stuff in my current job as even in Korea that is very often a problem finding people who can do something or are willing to take responsibility for low-level decision making. So I think I can handle that without much adjustment.

I do have a Thai wife, and she's been teaching me Thai but I'm still hardly past square one, so I know I'm going to have to concentrate on that, even though the entire staff will be able to speak decent English. As to avoiding the ladies, I think I have some pretty strong willpower, and just hope it's enough. My time will be spent almost exclusively in the office, so thankfully I won't have much concerns over traffic.

I'll have a look at the bookstores for some books about Farang managment of Thais. Any titles you can recommend off the top of your head? As you say, it's easy to get off on the wrong foot. And then extremely difficult if not impossible to ever recover fully. I've already been reading as much as I can about Thai culture, but need to get more information, particularly as it relates to the workplace.

Thanks again for the advice.

Korea seem to be a completely different cup of tea.

Those management books will be a good introduction -

Working with the Thais / Culture Shock Thailand and / Thai Ways + More Thai Ways will probably set you off to the right start.

My first pieces of personal advice - Do not hold back on the fun. Arrange office parties and trips for your employees now and then, with the only objective of having fun and getting to know each other (dont do survival courses as some companies in the West have done lately, most office Thais would die from walking 2 hours in the wilderness without air conditioning.)

More importantly - make sure you *see* everybody. Remember their names, ask about their families, make sure you know of their birthdays and give them tokens of appreciation. If you have the ability to do so, help out anyone who is in trouble.

Do not criticise harshly in public, even when it would seem justified. Do it in private and make sure the message comes through.

If you do find somebody who works well independently, make sure you give them due appreciation, and do NOT lose them. They can facilitate your job beyond belief, and you wont notice until they are gone.

[Tippaporn]

bwillis,

Thanks a lot for those pointers. Right now I'm in Korea and the work ethic of Koreans can sometimes be amazing. When push comes to shove and something needs to be done yesterday, it isn't hard to motivate them and get them to work all night, weekends, and holidays without any extra pay! I already figured that Thais would be no where near this motivated and that I'm going to need to figure on everything taking at least two or three times longer to accomplish. Based on things I've already read on this forum I was sort of expecting that lack of taking responsibility will be a problem. But I already have to do a lot of low-level stuff in my current job as even in Korea that is very often a problem finding people who can do something or are willing to take responsibility for low-level decision making. So I think I can handle that without much adjustment.

I do have a Thai wife, and she's been teaching me Thai but I'm still hardly past square one, so I know I'm going to have to concentrate on that, even though the entire staff will be able to speak decent English. As to avoiding the ladies, I think I have some pretty strong willpower, and just hope it's enough. My time will be spent almost exclusively in the office, so thankfully I won't have much concerns over traffic.

I'll have a look at the bookstores for some books about Farang managment of Thais. Any titles you can recommend off the top of your head? As you say, it's easy to get off on the wrong foot. And then extremely difficult if not impossible to ever recover fully. I've already been reading as much as I can about Thai culture, but need to get more information, particularly as it relates to the workplace.

Thanks again for the advice.

FYI, bwillis, I started a separate topic to discuss this issue in much greater detail as it highly interests me.

[jing jing]

Having spent most of my life in the U.S. I decided to move to Thailand not out of a dissatisfaction of where I was at but because the ambience of Thailand seemed to agree more with the essence of who I am. In that sense, and due to the vast difference between east and west, Thailand seemed to offer the closest thing to dying and being reborn again. Not that I felt a need to shed a past life; just that a new and fresh life seemed to blossom for me here. I felt like a kid all over again, where the entire world was once more so much eye candy with endless avenues at exploring new and amazing things. That, I believe, will last me the rest of my life.

I must admit that the U.S., while I will always remain fond of it, no longer holds my interest. Sort of like leaving the place where you were reared upon reaching adulthood. It's nostalgic to a degree when you go back but you wouldn't want to return permanently.

Great post by Tippaporn (as usual)... eloquent and succint... reflects my feelings exactly.

[Tippaporn]

A humble "Khorpkhun khrup," jing jing.

[Thaipwriter]

Or do you know expats who regret moving?

No but there's plenty who sit around moaning like they do.

[GuestHouse]

So I'm quite curious what are the aspects of professional expat life in Thailand that you don't like?

I think I should state right up front, I have no problems with working with Thais in Thailand, or elsewhere for that matter. I thoroughly enjoyed working with our Thai staff, still do enjoy working with our Thai staff and contrary to the often negative views we hear about Thai workers I believe those I worked with to be professional and reliable.

I would put the team I worked with up against any team of workers in the same field anywhere – They do a great job, they do it on time, in budget and manage to have fun while doing so.

This cannot be said of many of the expats I have worked with in Thailand, their primary objective becomes justifying their existence. This includes running down Thai staff, who they are supposed to be training, and extends to some of the worst behavior I have witnessed anywhere.

I’m still an expat, but I’m now in Italy, and when I was asked to assemble a team to help on this project I jumped at the chance to invite three of my former Thai staff to join me. They are doing a great job, great ambassadors for themselves, Thailand and of course our company.

With very few exceptions I wouldn’t choose to work again with any of the Farangs I’ve worked with in Thailand – They are just not up to the job anymore and above all they lack the professionalism they were suposedly hired for.