Pickup - Which Is The Most Comfortable Ride And Fuel Economy?

[thaicruze]

What say you?

After getting the Cruze, we're already thinking of going bigger.

There are rumors of a Honda crossover but I think that's going to be expensive.

My wife likes the Pajero Sport but I think the fuel economy is going to be bad and it's very expensive.

I think a good compromise is a truck; but my wife hates pickup trucks. I'm trying to get her to like them.

I'm thinking of a Triton because its the closest thing to a PJS.

Is it worth getting a diesel? I'm I going to be blowing Black Death out the tail pipe?

What about the D-Max? Is it a rebadged Colorado?

Are there any rumors of new models for 2015?

WHAT SAY YOU?

Edited October 19, 2012 by thaicruze

[hansnl]

Follow your heart, as they say.

And no, a D-Max is NOT a rebadged Colorado.

And your wife hating a pickup?

probably something to do with face.

Edited October 19, 2012 by hansnl

[stevenl]

My opinion: new Ranger and Mazda are the best ride, with Isuzu close behind them. Isuzu is probably best on fuel.

[funcat]

You say...want comfort in a pick up...hmmm,let me think....not such a thing.

If you want comfort in a bigger vehicle like an SUV...it will be CRV,Craptiva etc...and the rest PJS,Fortuner etc. are more like pick-ups anyway....

[anon210]

"Going bigger" for what exactly, if you cannot afford the additional gas consumption? And I think you like so much your car, that you might want to stick with it for a while (this reduces the total cost of ownership, BTW).

PJS is not that bad in fuel economy. Depending on where you drive (city/highway) and how you drive, you can get something like 12 km/l, which is about what you get with the Isuzu D-Max. It also depends of your use. Do you need to haul stuff? If not, then your Triton is liable to have a bouncing back which may come as a surprise when accustomed to driving a sedan.

Regarding diesel, it definitely is the way to go with a larger truck, as 1° it reduces your fuel cost; 2° the motors are, in general, stronger and very resisting.

As to the ride comfort, yes, the PPV are always pickups, but that also has some advantages, namely their resistance to Thai roads.

[IamNotaNumber]

I have a new diesel Triton. It is basically a Pajero without the boot.

I get about 13km/l in general use, though I dont use it much around town and I am a careful driver. I'm sure that on a long trip it would do 14-15km/l. I think the figures may increase with a pop-up lid fitted. I wouldn't even think about a petrol engine in such a large vehicle. One of my main reasons for buying this vehicle was the fuel economy.

I find it very easy to drive and very comfortable, though it doesnt like high-speed cornering very much (I got used to this quickly) and can be a little bouncy if you are alone with no baggage. It is more than fast and responsive enough for my needs, and I dont think I have ever exceeded 2000 rpm even when accelerating. It has a lot of torque at low revs.

Mitsu is Thailand's third-largest pick-up seller (apparently) and parts are quite cheap. The other advantage is that the prices/extras are very negotiable and delivery is just a week or so.

I dont know how well they maintain their value, but I dont really care as I expect to own it until I die or stop driving.

Would I buy another? Yes, I certainly would.

[thaicbr]

I have a new diesel Triton. It is basically a Pajero without the boot.

I get about 13km/l in general use, though I dont use it much around town and I am a careful driver. I'm sure that on a long trip it would do 14-15km/l. I think the figures may increase with a pop-up lid fitted. I wouldn't even think about a petrol engine in such a large vehicle. One of my main reasons for buying this vehicle was the fuel economy.

I find it very easy to drive and very comfortable, though it doesnt like high-speed cornering very much (I got used to this quickly) and can be a little bouncy if you are alone with no baggage. It is more than fast and responsive enough for my needs, and I dont think I have ever exceeded 2000 rpm even when accelerating. It has a lot of torque at low revs.

Mitsu is Thailand's third-largest pick-up seller (apparently) and parts are quite cheap. The other advantage is that the prices/extras are very negotiable and delivery is just a week or so.

I dont know how well they maintain their value, but I dont really care as I expect to own it until I die or stop driving.

Would I buy another? Yes, I certainly would.

But the Pajero has coil springs at the rear. Triton has leaf springs.

I also am surprised your thinking of going pickup after a sedan. .. unless you need to transport things a bit crazy really

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

[anon210]

I have a new diesel Triton. It is basically a Pajero without the boot.

I get about 13km/l in general use, though I dont use it much around town and I am a careful driver. I'm sure that on a long trip it would do 14-15km/l. I think the figures may increase with a pop-up lid fitted. I wouldn't even think about a petrol engine in such a large vehicle. One of my main reasons for buying this vehicle was the fuel economy.

I find it very easy to drive and very comfortable, though it doesnt like high-speed cornering very much (I got used to this quickly) and can be a little bouncy if you are alone with no baggage. It is more than fast and responsive enough for my needs, and I dont think I have ever exceeded 2000 rpm even when accelerating. It has a lot of torque at low revs.

Mitsu is Thailand's third-largest pick-up seller (apparently) and parts are quite cheap. The other advantage is that the prices/extras are very negotiable and delivery is just a week or so.

I dont know how well they maintain their value, but I dont really care as I expect to own it until I die or stop driving.

Would I buy another? Yes, I certainly would.

But the Pajero has coil springs at the rear. Triton has leaf springs.

I also am surprised your thinking of going pickup after a sedan. .. unless you need to transport things a bit crazy really

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

Especially after considering a PJS before! Next we hear, he will be gone for the Porsche Cayman.

[transam]

I just love my 4x4 Vigo auto. Make up your mind, truck or SUV.

4x4 auto truck is OK in any LOS eye. ........ And can sell easy.

[eaustev]

And in terms of diesel and "black death" from the tail pipe it should be realized that this is based on a review of the original WHO classification from 1988 which was in relation to diesel in the mining, rail, and trucking sectors. The review in 2012 was to consider evidence from a 20 year study by the US National Cancer Institute which studied the effects of diesel on underground miners, and from this review diesel was clasified as carcinogenic to humans. Absolutely no relevence to diesel in vehicles, particularly modern diesel standards with significantly reduced particulates. Another thing the media seemed to omit in reporting this news is that gasoline is also classified as possibly carcinogenic. A bit off the main topic but I get a bit tired of hearing of diesel vehicles and the health risks.

Also agree with the above posts, unless you are looking at carting goods (or relatives) around in the tray, I don't see how a pickup will give you more space benefits than a sedan.

[thaicruze]

Follow your heart, as they say.

And no, a D-Max is NOT a rebadged Colorado.

And your wife hating a pickup?

probably something to do with face.

No. She doesn't care about that. She's been in pickups and says the ride is crap and they're loud. I'm trying to convince her to test drive a nice one, but I want to know which will give the nicest ride (for a pickup).

[thaicruze]

And in terms of diesel and "black death" from the tail pipe it should be realized that this is based on a review of the original WHO classification from 1988 which was in relation to diesel in the mining, rail, and trucking sectors. The review in 2012 was to consider evidence from a 20 year study by the US National Cancer Institute which studied the effects of diesel on underground miners, and from this review diesel was clasified as carcinogenic to humans. Absolutely no relevence to diesel in vehicles, particularly modern diesel standards with significantly reduced particulates. Another thing the media seemed to omit in reporting this news is that gasoline is also classified as possibly carcinogenic. A bit off the main topic but I get a bit tired of hearing of diesel vehicles and the health risks.

Also agree with the above posts, unless you are looking at carting goods (or relatives) around in the tray, I don't see how a pickup will give you more space benefits than a sedan.

Something a bit more flood proof.

[thaicruze]

I would never buy a CRV because they are just way too expensive for what they are. We really like the PJS, but didn't know if the Petrol version was worth it, if I had to get a diesel and if so; what kind of fuel economy was I looking at.

[Jitar]

If you want a big, cheap vehicle, pickups are unbeatable in Thailand. All the major brands have common rail diesel engines with good acceleration and fuel economy, particularly for the manual versions. They also hold their value very well, better than most cars. The lower range models are basic and do not have ABS and airbags etc so you need to get the higher models from 750,000 baht or so.

Common rail turbo diesels are the best choice for a large vehicles in Thailand because of the governments tax on large engines and petrol. Any big heavy car or pickup on petrol will use a lot of fuel. Diesels are much more efficient and the fuel is 20% cheaper. From this year all cars and pickups are supposed to comply with Euro 4 emissions standards. Neither petrol nor diesel is perfect, petrol emissions have more green house gasses and diesels have more particulate and NOx but they are much closer than before.

If you think of a pickup as a big car you will be disappointed, there are compromises. Noise is OK if you don't rev them too much (which is not necessary any way) but they do not ride like a car. Truck brakes, tyres and suspensions are a compromise between cost, load carrying and performance. Trucks can cruise along the highway fine but drivers accustomed to a car will feel bumps more. Spring rates are set to deal with up to 1 tonne loads so the suspension is rough over bumps when unladen. They can be a bit tail happy in the wet or over bumps as well. The interior space for the standard 4 door models is a little bigger than a car like the Cruze, but a Carryboy or similar may be needed to protect stuff on the back from weather and thieves etc. Trucks are around 5m long with longer wheel base than most cars so they are not going to get in to a tight parking spot like a car.

The PPV type SUV's like Pajero Sport or Fortuner are better as passenger vehicles. They are not as smooth riding as a car but they do ride better than a truck. The interior is more versatile and there are 7 seats with safety belts, if passengers are inclined to use them. They are a little shorter so slightly more maneuverable. The auto trans on these drag fuel economy a bit. Our PJS and Furtuner diesels can get 10 - 11 km/L in mixed town and country driving but they are 4x4 versions.

The PPV SUV's cost ~250 - 500,000 baht more than a similar pickup. The base model 2WD PJS, MU and Everest are around 1M baht. If that is too expensive there is not much else available that is large and OK other than pickups and Thai Rung?

Edited October 19, 2012 by Jitar

[CharlieH]

Alot depends on what you "actually" intend using it for and perhaps more importantly what the roads are like where you are and where you travel.

Many sedan types would fall apart on some the Thai roads or break easily.

I agree with TransAm, I have a D4D Vigo, Toyota, 4 door, its basically a Fortuner with a bed on the back, Very quiet, comfortable and can take any road anywhere.

Had many different types over the years, this one is by far the best "all-rounder". Easy re-sale, holds value well.

Edited October 19, 2012 by CharlieH

[John 1]

Alot depends on what you "actually" intend using it for and perhaps more importantly what the roads are like where you are and where you travel.

Many sedan types would fall apart on some the Thai roads or break easily.

I agree with TransAm, I have a D4D Vigo, Toyota, 4 door, its basically a Fortuner with a bed on the back, Very quiet, comfortable and can take any road anywhere.

Had many different types over the years, this one is by far the best "all-rounder". Easy re-sale, holds value well.

A Vigo is not a Fortuner with a bed on the back. The Fortuner has a shorter wheel base and has real coil springs.

[guzzi850m2]

OP thaicruze I have same dilemma as you, I don't want to drive sedans anymore for 2 good reasons: Flooding, I almost "drowned" in my H. City once. Low, I fell very small in a sedan surrounded by trucks/suv's and I don't want to think about what happens if I get broadsided by a pick-up truck in a sedan.

I have tried the new Mazda BT-50 and it's a pleasure to drive, very comfortable (okay I only tested it for 10 km, so no expert), nice "top" view compared to a sedan.

I have a Ford Ranger 2.2WT on order for 4 month now and one Thaivisa poster was kind enough to let me have a good look at his as the Ford dealer in Pattaya don't have any.

Bluetooth, USB conn., can drive in 80cm of water, ABS, airbags, Auto wipers/lights, very safe "impact" cabin and the list goes on. Very cool looking doesn't matter either. The price on my Ford truck have gone up by 40k bath since I ordered it, but thankfully both Ford Thailand HQ and Pattaya branch have assured me that the price is "frozen" on the order date.

I am looking forward to get my Wildtrack next year and sell my tin can City 06.

[IamNotaNumber]

But the Pajero has coil springs at the rear. Triton has leaf springs.

And indeed this explains the bounciness. Not much of a problem for me though. It bounces a bit on bumps: big deal.

I also am surprised your thinking of going pickup after a sedan. .. unless you need to transport things a bit crazy really

I started my search with an open mind.

For economy/ecology I wanted a diesel engine (or possibly LPG but too many problems here with that). This rules out all small sedans. So it would have to be a big sedan. For the same price as a big sedan you get more car for your money if you buy a pickup. I also wanted to be well off the ground (flooding, potholes, ease of access with old knees) and even though I dont have 4WD I can go over rough roads without even thinking twice. I also think I may be slightly safer in a pickup than in a car, both in case of accidents and also as other drivers are probably more likely to respect a pickup and keep their distance.

Either way, I'm very pleased with my choice.

[IamNotaNumber]

Especially after considering a PJS before! Next we hear, he will be gone for the Porsche Cayman.

At no point did I ever consider a PJS.

[thaicruze]

If you want a big, cheap vehicle, pickups are unbeatable in Thailand. All the major brands have common rail diesel engines with good acceleration and fuel economy, particularly for the manual versions. They also hold their value very well, better than most cars. The lower range models are basic and do not have ABS and airbags etc so you need to get the higher models from 750,000 baht or so.

Common rail turbo diesels are the best choice for a large vehicles in Thailand because of the governments tax on large engines and petrol. Any big heavy car or pickup on petrol will use a lot of fuel. Diesels are much more efficient and the fuel is 20% cheaper. From this year all cars and pickups are supposed to comply with Euro 4 emissions standards. Neither petrol nor diesel is perfect, petrol emissions have more green house gasses and diesels have more particulate and NOx but they are much closer than before.

If you think of a pickup as a big car you will be disappointed, there are compromises. Noise is OK if you don't rev them too much (which is not necessary any way) but they do not ride like a car. Truck brakes, tyres and suspensions are a compromise between cost, load carrying and performance. Trucks can cruise along the highway fine but drivers accustomed to a car will feel bumps more. Spring rates are set to deal with up to 1 tonne loads so the suspension is rough over bumps when unladen. They can be a bit tail happy in the wet or over bumps as well. The interior space for the standard 4 door models is a little bigger than a car like the Cruze, but a Carryboy or similar may be needed to protect stuff on the back from weather and thieves etc. Trucks are around 5m long with longer wheel base than most cars so they are not going to get in to a tight parking spot like a car.

The PPV type SUV's like Pajero Sport or Fortuner are better as passenger vehicles. They are not as smooth riding as a car but they do ride better than a truck. The interior is more versatile and there are 7 seats with safety belts, if passengers are inclined to use them. They are a little shorter so slightly more maneuverable. The auto trans on these drag fuel economy a bit. Our PJS and Furtuner diesels can get 10 - 11 km/L in mixed town and country driving but they are 4x4 versions.

The PPV SUV's cost ~250 - 500,000 baht more than a similar pickup. The base model 2WD PJS, MU and Everest are around 1M baht. If that is too expensive there is not much else available that is large and OK other than pickups and Thai Rung?

Thank you. Lots to think about.

Not anything ill do right away, unless the cruze turns into a Lemon.

I like the Cruze. We wanted to try something bigger than my Honda City. My original thought was to get something high with a lot of road presence. But we decided to get the Cruze. We like the car and all, but after a little over a year, I am having (inside not aloud) a bit of buyer's remorse. I still want a bigger vehicle for thailand most of my daily commute is on highway but where I live is next to the chao praya river and it floods. We also drive her mom places occasionally and I'm always having to leave or park the cruze in places that are too rough for it.

Also during the flood; I almost got stuck under a bridge that was flooded and had to put 50 sandbags in the back and thought my cruze was going to break. The wheel well was almost hitting the tires. I was like "SSHHOOOTTT. I SHOULD'VE GOTTEN A BIG ASS PICKUP".

Then as we were stuck inside our house, our neighbor was getting out through the waters in his Fortuner. And there I was inside my house. Trapped. Polishing the gay Cruze. dam_n.

So I think, for my next one, I want something with lots of road presence that is easy to drive. Easy on the wallet and that a woman can drive (they can't drive backwards) but that is tall and bigger. That can be abused and won't break. The Cruze isn't really a "man's car". It's like a car made by Apple.

So. Before we actually ordered the Cruze we were at the mall. I pinged out the PJS, she got in and it was love at first sight.

My mom never buys sedans anymore. She buys only SUVs. She has a Montero now.

This was the road in front of my house.

Before:

After:

That empty lot. Disappeared.

Higher than a pickup's bonnet.

Edited October 19, 2012 by thaicruze

[anon210]

Well, floods were also the reason I decided to have a SUV... Floods and also the risk incurred when you drive a sedan compared to a smaller car.

It is interesting to read "buyer's remorse" (but I'll admire the honesty on your side!) when you have been adamant in defense of the Cruze.

It is true that you do not put the blame as much on the car's mechanical qualities, but rather on its being inadapted for your style of life.

As for me, I have to confess having hesitated very strongly in favor of the Isuzu pickup... Which is probably excellent in itself. In the end, living in city, not having to haul stuff around, and having a dog, I preferred getting a SUV, and one that was strong and made for Thai roads. The pickup body means that I get to enjoy the structural strength of the pickup, while having more comfort available for passengers - although, the electronics of an Isuzu D-Max beat by far those of a PJS.

[jbrain]

I have a new diesel Triton. It is basically a Pajero without the boot.

I get about 13km/l in general use, though I dont use it much around town and I am a careful driver. I'm sure that on a long trip it would do 14-15km/l. I think the figures may increase with a pop-up lid fitted. I wouldn't even think about a petrol engine in such a large vehicle. One of my main reasons for buying this vehicle was the fuel economy.

I find it very easy to drive and very comfortable, though it doesnt like high-speed cornering very much (I got used to this quickly) and can be a little bouncy if you are alone with no baggage. It is more than fast and responsive enough for my needs, and I dont think I have ever exceeded 2000 rpm even when accelerating. It has a lot of torque at low revs.

Mitsu is Thailand's third-largest pick-up seller (apparently) and parts are quite cheap. The other advantage is that the prices/extras are very negotiable and delivery is just a week or so.

I dont know how well they maintain their value, but I dont really care as I expect to own it until I die or stop driving.

Would I buy another? Yes, I certainly would.

But the Pajero has coil springs at the rear. Triton has leaf springs.

I also am surprised your thinking of going pickup after a sedan. .. unless you need to transport things a bit crazy really

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

You say !

I have driven sedan's in Thailand for 10 years as I always considered pick ups too big for the roads and impracticable.

Then as I was getting tired of the increasing potholes in the roads, and I had a chance to buy a second hand Colorado at a good price, I made the change 4 years ago and I never looked back. I sold the Colorado after a year and bought a new pick up.

The uncountable potholes in the road don't feel anymore as if the frontwheel is gonna enter the car or I will have to check out my suspension every other day.

When I by mistake enter a dirt road I have no need to turn back.

If I buy something of bigger size I don't need to negotiate with crazy taxi drivers over a price, I just throw it in the back.

Oh and the biggest advantage.When I drove a sedan, I would have on average 6 accidents each year, 99% not my fault, but of course you always have to bring the car in for repairs and other discomforts.

Siince the day I swtched to a pick up, now 4 years ago, I haven't had 1 accident anymore. ( holding wood now ).

So you see, size matters

[thaicruze]

Well, floods were also the reason I decided to have a SUV... Floods and also the risk incurred when you drive a sedan compared to a smaller car.

It is interesting to read "buyer's remorse" (but I'll admire the honesty on your side!) when you have been adamant in defense of the Cruze.

It is true that you do not put the blame as much on the car's mechanical qualities, but rather on its being inadapted for your style of life.

As for me, I have to confess having hesitated very strongly in favor of the Isuzu pickup... Which is probably excellent in itself. In the end, living in city, not having to haul stuff around, and having a dog, I preferred getting a SUV, and one that was strong and made for Thai roads. The pickup body means that I get to enjoy the structural strength of the pickup, while having more comfort available for passengers - although, the electronics of an Isuzu D-Max beat by far those of a PJS.

Just that it's not a big pile of Junk. The only 1 issue I have with the cruze is a rear left noisy brake. Dealer has been working on fixing it.

Other than that, we like it. Looks nice. Hasn't failed or anything. It's pretty quiet.

Negatives are that I'm always worrying about it. Getting dinged and scratched and and obsessing about every little noise.

We want something bigger. Taller. And something that I can take anywhere and not be worried about it so much. Also that odd time when I say "dam_n. I wish we had a truck".

All we would need is a lid for the bed. Maybe a net.

Or take a longer loan and get a Pajero. But I really like the D-Max. Just that when we were looking for cars, she said definitely NO to pickups.

I'm trying to convince her to test drive the D-Max or the Triton. I just think she's never been inside a new model pickup.

Being a girl, we were discussing how much I hate the BT-50's look, but alas, she likes it. I would do a BT-50 even if I don't like it if she can put up with it.

I think the best bet would be to look at a Triton. At least it looks similar to a Pajero Sport. And she's a girl. They don't know anything about coil vs leaf springs.

Does the Triton Plus White Pearl come with Leather Seats?

Edited October 19, 2012 by thaicruze

[IMHO]

If you really need a pickup, and can deal with the poorer ride quality, the BT-50 seems a little more compliant over the bumps than the Ranger, which only just edges out the D-Max, which feels a tad softer than the Colorado, which is very noticeably better than a Triton or Hilux, which both make the Navara feel very stiff

If you're just wanting something big and relatively cheap, and don't care about running costs, get the base PJS 2.4L gasoline 5MT for 915K - it's got about the same city manoeuvrability as the previous gen Civic, and better ride quality and noise suppression than a current gen Accord (though admittedly, that's not hard), and will far exceed any Thai market pickup truck on these criteria...

[thaicruze]

If you really need a pickup, and can deal with the poorer ride quality, the BT-50 seems a little more compliant over the bumps than the Ranger, which only just edges out the D-Max, which feels a tad softer than the Colorado, which is very noticeably better than a Triton or Hilux, which both make the Navara feel very stiff

If you're just wanting something big and relatively cheap, and don't care about running costs, get the base PJS 2.4L gasoline 5MT for 915K - it's got about the same city manoeuvrability as the previous gen Civic, and better ride quality and noise suppression than a current gen Accord (though admittedly, that's not hard), and will far exceed any Thai market pickup truck on these criteria...

Was looking at it. What gasoline do you put in there? What's the worst case fuel economy?

If the diesel gets 11 km/l combined and the gasoline is worse then I wouldn't get it. The one I would want us the 2.5 GLS which is 1,014,000. Yikes.

The Triton White Pearl - 845,000

Edited October 19, 2012 by thaicruze

[IMHO]

If you really need a pickup, and can deal with the poorer ride quality, the BT-50 seems a little more compliant over the bumps than the Ranger, which only just edges out the D-Max, which feels a tad softer than the Colorado, which is very noticeably better than a Triton or Hilux, which both make the Navara feel very stiff

If you're just wanting something big and relatively cheap, and don't care about running costs, get the base PJS 2.4L gasoline 5MT for 915K - it's got about the same city manoeuvrability as the previous gen Civic, and better ride quality and noise suppression than a current gen Accord (though admittedly, that's not hard), and will far exceed any Thai market pickup truck on these criteria...

Was looking at it. What gasoline do you put in there? What's the worst case fuel economy?

I don't put any engines into cars - I just do my best to make them wrench themselves off their mounts

The 2.4L is the same unit used in the lower model Tritons and according to Wikipedia has been used in plenty of different cars over the years: http://en.wikipedia....ius_engine#4G64

For memory, the 2.4L PJS gets around 8-9KM/L - like I said, not a good choice if you're concerned about running costs (for that, get the 2.5L diesel).

Edited October 19, 2012 by IMHO

[thaicruze]

What's the difference between a hi-lander and a VCross? Is it that the vCross is 4x4? Is it taller? I don't get it.

Can't get in the website because they insist on making car sites in Flash.

Edited October 19, 2012 by thaicruze

[IMHO]

What's the difference between a hi-lander and a VCross? Is it that the vCross is 4x4? Is it taller? I don't get it.

Can't get in the website because they insist on making car sites in Flash.

Hi-Lander is a RWD jacked up with 4WD ride height, while the V-Cross is an actual 4WD.

[thaicruze]

Hi-Lander 2.5 VGS Z?

VCross 2.5 VGS L?

Which would you rather?

The Hilander Prestige comes with Navigation. 896,000. That's the ticket if you want to get my wife into one of these.

Didn't see Triton with Navigation option. But the site is all in Thai so who knows.

I don't think I need 4WD. Just need it to be tall.

Edited October 19, 2012 by thaicruze

[IMHO]

I don't think I need 4WD. Just need it to be tall.

Simple then - go for the 2WD with higher equipment spec and cheaper running costs

If you want GPS in a Triton, either pressure the dealer to throw in a Garmin (or wait until they do another factory promotion that includes one standard), or if getting a 'plus' model with the Alpine touchscreen, add a Kamaz or Alpine navi black box to it...