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Friendly Thailand stares down the barrel of rising gun crime

By Amy Sawitta Lefevre

Browning SFS. File photo, Source: Wikipedia

BANGKOK: -- (Reuters) - Twenty schoolchildren surround a city bus in central Bangkok. Some get on to confront a 16-year-old from a rival school and, within moments, he is shot dead.

Similar altercations have become a focus of public attention, with shootings affecting seemingly ordinary folk.

In one incident at a busy intersection, a computer repairman shot dead two people and took a third hostage. Witnesses said it resembled a scene from a Hollywood blockbuster.

A tourist haven and regional base for multinational companies, Thailand has the highest number of guns in civilian hands in Southeast Asia -- almost four times more than the Philippines, a country notorious for violent gun crime.

Some blame the rise in gun crime on political instability that has gripped Thailand since a 2006 coup that removed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Unrest culminated in a two-month stand-off in 2010 between government troops and "red shirt" protesters backing Thaksin and clashes that killed 91 people.

Others say that the seeming impunity enjoyed by the wealthy has prompted some to take the law into their own hands.

"Thailand has become a Wild West movie," says politician Chuwit Kamolvisit, a former massage-parlor tycoon who says he used to pay off local police to run his seedy businesses. "People pull out their guns at a moment's notice."

Full story: http://www.reuters.c...E89K0GE20121021

-- REUTERS 2012-10-22

[petedk]

"Thailand has become a Wild West movie," says politician Chuwit Kamolvisit,

I have been thinking this for some time now but without the guns.

I have seen and experienced so many situations recently where people have taken the law into their own hands. Not serious issues but enough to remind me of the Wild West.

If guns become more and more common in crime then I fear for the future of Thailand.

[MEL1]

Thailand has a self-imposed impression that it is a first world standards country.

It doesn't realise it is still a third world country.

It is 80 years behind everywhere else it likes to compare itself to.

Those reasons alone, despite the widespread corruption, that it also likes to believe is ineffectual in the long term aspects of events, are evident of a gun-toting lot that is only just beginning.

When Thailand wakes up and realises that laws are there for reasons, and laws have to be imposed, then there's a possibility of some developments which may permit Thailand to start to take control of its own real assets.

Until then, things will just deteriorate - as they have been for the last 10 years.

Sad - but true.

-mel.

Edited October 22, 2012 by MEL1

[lizardtongue]

Most Thai's have access to hand guns, although I have personally seen young Thai's with pistols tucked in their waist bands, the danger is not normally at the time of an altercation but after, when one or both of the parties involved leave and return with a gun, obviously the amount of drugs/alcohol consumed is a factor, as is the 'loss of face' thing.

[lizardtongue]

Thailand has a self-imposed impression that it is a first world standards country.

It doesn't realise it is still a third world country.

It is 80 years behind everywhere else it likes to compare itself to.

Those reasons alone, despite the widespread corruption, that it also likes to believe is ineffectual in the long term aspects of events, are evident of a gun-toting lot that is only just beginning.

When Thailand wakes up and realises that laws are there for reasons, and laws have to be imposed, then there's a possibility of some developments which may permit Thailand to start to take control of its own real assets.

Until then, things will just deteriorate - as they have been for the last 10 years.

Sad - but true.

-mel.

It doesn't realize it is still a third world country.

It is actually a developing country! Developing into a third world country!

[BookMan]

When money talks and can be used to avoid arrest and detention it should not be surprising that some people will see the law as not applying to themselves.

A few people get guns to intimidate and rob, so then more people get guns to protect themselves. More criminals get guns to keep up with other criminals who already have guns and then even more people get guns to protect themselves against the people who got guns to protect themselves and the criminals. And on it goes...

[TheWalkingMan]

I thought this was common knowledge.

[Thai at Heart]

4 times more than the Philippines?

Wow

[hanuman2543]

A gun in hand makes a coward think he is a hero. Way too many cowards in this country.

[slapout]

You need maturity and logical reasoning to drive a motor vehicle, have access to a firearm, and contribute to society. It is fairly obvious what is lacking in the LOS.

[noitom]

In a country where corruption, bribery, and routine payoffs are rampant in all aspects of society, government, police, military, you can expect substantial movement of weapons and other military ordnance to move freely through the country. You can also expect bribery and manipulation in import customs where weapons can easily slide by a broken system if there is a temporary bottleneck or they can't be obtained through traditional law enforcement and military sources.

Edited October 22, 2012 by noitom

[MEL1]

When money talks and can be used to avoid arrest and detention it should not be surprising that some people will see the law as not applying to themselves.

A few people get guns to intimidate and rob, so then more people get guns to protect themselves. More criminals get guns to keep up with other criminals who already have guns and then even more people get guns to protect themselves against the people who got guns to protect themselves and the criminals. And on it goes...

Maybe.....

However, money talks in the UK too. I don't see the UK public at large all running around buying guns for the reasons you give?

In fact, I see quite the opposite.

-mel.

[maprao]

4 times more than the Philippines?

Wow

They may have 4 times more guns but the PI is way ahead on murder rates. Google the statistics and you will see.

[marshbags]

" Others say that the seeming impunity enjoyed by the wealthy has prompted some to take the law into their own hands."

Make no mistake the impunity of not only the wealthy but those in those in positions of authority who are forever in the headlines re ownership of an abundance of weaponry at their disposal and do not hesitate to use them.

Governmental officials are forever misusing their positions and do not hesitate to use the gun when their power is questioned and in many cases their reputations are threatened by exposure of unlawfull misuse of authority.

How easy it is and increasing become more so to silence indiscretions and competitors for everyone who is lacking integrity, basic human decency and values.

The police are forever in the headlines for intimidating the public with their guns and again would not hesitate to use them indiscriminately when they wish to show authority / exert and display their power.

Many intoxicated and unable / incapable of restraint, especially when loss of face is involved.

The going rate 20 years ago for a hired assasin was 2-5000 baht and you can get one today for the same prices with many assasinations left undetected or the perpetrators being brought to justice and account.

Anyone and everyone can purchase a gun anywhere and they can be illegally bought without any of the legally required conditions being fullfilled.

Percentage wise how many offenders are arrested, charged and convicted of their evil cold blooded crimes as against those who get away to kill again and again repeatedly.

Sadly overwelming differences are well and truly in favour of the latter due to the indifference of the all who have the authority to challenge these alarming statistics and indeed are part of the ingrained Thai culture that it is seemingly ok to use a gun indiscriminately for whatever reasons.....legal and otherwise ???

Is it a wonder then that the public and the young are convinced it is ok to not only own a gun, but to use it in situations referred to in the OP,s article, without any concerns or considerations for the consequences of their actions when the supposed role models of society are oblivious and unrepentant for theirs.

Is it not time for some common sense rethink on the horrendous statistics, accountability from the top down and implementation of deterents and penalities that are applicable and enforcable to everyone.

As for the police and other authorities who are allowed to carry a gun, they should implement guidelines and rules as to when a gun can be carried and all should prove they are of a required level of sanity and discipline and control in stressful situations before being allowed to posses one.

Gun crime is most certainly on the increase...big time and no wonder when even many of priviliged elite and governmental authorities with their actions send out a message that it is seemingly permissable to use them for whatever reasons to assert their power.

marshbags

Edited October 22, 2012 by marshbags

[uptheos]

Yep, loss of face in The Land of Smiles.......a real good reason to kill.

[kiniyow]

Surprised it is not Much worse considering all the Guns that are stolen from the Army and the ease of getting a gun from Cambodia...

[EarthAlien]

""Thailand has become a Wild West movie," says politician Chuwit Kamolvisit"

The Good, The Bad, and The Stupid!

[topt]

When money talks and can be used to avoid arrest and detention it should not be surprising that some people will see the law as not applying to themselves.

A few people get guns to intimidate and rob, so then more people get guns to protect themselves. More criminals get guns to keep up with other criminals who already have guns and then even more people get guns to protect themselves against the people who got guns to protect themselves and the criminals. And on it goes...

Maybe.....

However, money talks in the UK too. I don't see the UK public at large all running around buying guns for the reasons you give?

In fact, I see quite the opposite.

-mel.

Can you elaborate on that - I wasn't aware bribing your way out of a legal problem in the UK was as common as it appears in LOS or are you referring to some specific example I have missed recently?

[Nickymaster]

Just give the kids a tablet and let's move on.

[davejones]

When money talks and can be used to avoid arrest and detention it should not be surprising that some people will see the law as not applying to themselves.

A few people get guns to intimidate and rob, so then more people get guns to protect themselves. More criminals get guns to keep up with other criminals who already have guns and then even more people get guns to protect themselves against the people who got guns to protect themselves and the criminals. And on it goes...

Maybe.....

However, money talks in the UK too. I don't see the UK public at large all running around buying guns for the reasons you give?

In fact, I see quite the opposite.

-mel.

Can you elaborate on that - I wasn't aware bribing your way out of a legal problem in the UK was as common as it appears in LOS or are you referring to some specific example I have missed recently?

I think he means that if you are rich, then the law is less likely to apply to you. Just look at all the MPs caught fraudulently claiming expenses. Ordinary citizens are routinely sent to jail, but the politicians got let off. All the rich bankers who committed fraud are still out and about. Money certainly talks in the UK.

[topt]

When money talks and can be used to avoid arrest and detention it should not be surprising that some people will see the law as not applying to themselves.

A few people get guns to intimidate and rob, so then more people get guns to protect themselves. More criminals get guns to keep up with other criminals who already have guns and then even more people get guns to protect themselves against the people who got guns to protect themselves and the criminals. And on it goes...

Maybe.....

However, money talks in the UK too. I don't see the UK public at large all running around buying guns for the reasons you give?

In fact, I see quite the opposite.

-mel.

Can you elaborate on that - I wasn't aware bribing your way out of a legal problem in the UK was as common as it appears in LOS or are you referring to some specific example I have missed recently?

I think he means that if you are rich, then the law is less likely to apply to you. Just look at all the MPs caught fraudulently claiming expenses. Ordinary citizens are routinely sent to jail, but the politicians got let off. All the rich bankers who committed fraud are still out and about. Money certainly talks in the UK.

Using that generalisation then means you could probably apply it anywhere in the world.

[theajarn]

Gaddamn... what an eye-opening, jaw-dropping report THAT was! Higher than the Philippines??? I am somewhat glad I really don't get out often (or at all) here in Bangkok!

[tragickingdom]

Can anyone use a gun to get rid of Chuwit or simply lock this former pimp up for a while. Chuwit should publicly apologize to all the children he forcibly put into prostitution. THe courts should take all of his money away so his mouth would become a bit smaller and distribute the money over all of the people who lost their future working in Chuwit's brothels. Chuwit is loved by the Nation Newspaper, the reason is probably because the Mafia is always looking out for their own. Stop uing Chuwit as an example unless it is a bad example. We are talking about a child trafficker here.

[BookMan]

When money talks and can be used to avoid arrest and detention it should not be surprising that some people will see the law as not applying to themselves.

A few people get guns to intimidate and rob, so then more people get guns to protect themselves. More criminals get guns to keep up with other criminals who already have guns and then even more people get guns to protect themselves against the people who got guns to protect themselves and the criminals. And on it goes...

Maybe.....

However, money talks in the UK too. I don't see the UK public at large all running around buying guns for the reasons you give?

In fact, I see quite the opposite.

-mel.

I would assume availability of hand guns and ownership laws are far stricter in the UK. Just a guess

[madmitch]

It can't help to see guns in use every night in peak viewing on the soap operas. Every one, without exception. And these are supposed to be about ordinary, albeit hi-so, families.

I'm not normally a believer in copycat crime by the masses; if you see something on TV then generally people aren't going to replicate the act. But when the impression is given that firing a gun at someone is less serious than the "crime" of smoking then something is wrong.

[Markaew]

"Thailand has become a Wild West movie," says politician Chuwit Kamolvisit,

I have been thinking this for some time now but without the guns.

I have seen and experienced so many situations recently where people have taken the law into their own hands. Not serious issues but enough to remind me of the Wild West.

If guns become more and more common in crime then I fear for the future of Thailand.

If you are a foreigner, you need to fear for yourself.

[anon467367354]

crimes with or without guns, drug use, teenage pregnancy, alcoholism are all trademarks of a society that flaunts inequality.

The fact that crimes with guns is up, look at the amount of drugs in news these days, is all part of the "normal" process of

class separation where the rich get richer and the poor begin to realize they have no where to go.

Unfortunately I don't see any sign from anyone in the government that sees this needs to change for the good

of Thailand. There is no future for Thailand because "tomorrow" never comes here. There is absolutely no concept

of consequence to these people. Very sad indeed.

[Markaew]

From the OP "Others say that the seeming impunity enjoyed by the wealthy has prompted some to take the law into their own hands."

This statement is just scratching the surface. I believe that the average person is frustrated with the aggression of other people and the police refuse to do anything about it. I have been down this road as well. You have to pay the the police just to listen to you and yet they may do nothing. Police don't want to be bothered with their job except only in cases of profit. If you push the police too much to act on a situation, then you take the risk of being arrested yourself for bothering them. People have to take the situation into their own hands because there is no alternative.

[fstarbkk]

Can anyone use a gun to get rid of Chuwit or simply lock this former pimp up for a while. Chuwit should publicly apologize to all the children he forcibly put into prostitution. THe courts should take all of his money away so his mouth would become a bit smaller and distribute the money over all of the people who lost their future working in Chuwit's brothels. Chuwit is loved by the Nation Newspaper, the reason is probably because the Mafia is always looking out for their own. Stop uing Chuwit as an example unless it is a bad example. We are talking about a child trafficker here.

I'm not aware of direct evidence that K. Chuwit forced children into prostitution. Could you or anyone enlighten me here? Or re we just speculating on the basis that he once owned massage parlours, where prostitution is likely to have taken place?

[Jim walker]

Bangkok or Baghdad all the same now with guns so freely available LOS land of shootings