Dating A Thai Woman, Cultural-Sexual Issues

[thenoilif]

OP,

I come from a family like your girlfriend's but I was born and raised in the US by my mother. Upon coming to Thailand to spend time with and get to know my father I experienced a major cultural clash with my Chinese-Thai family because their ultra conservative views didn't jive with my western free living ideals.

These are just some of the cultural ideals that my family has bestowed upon me since my arrival:

1. Cannot spend the night with a woman until marriage

2. Do not date below your social circle i.e. the woman has to be college educated Masters degree preferable, have a above average job (typical office girl is not good enough), come from a upper middle class or higher family

3. I live at home with parents until I marry.

4. Curfew of 2am

5. If I eventually find a woman that I want to be in a serious relationship with she must be approved by the entire family

6. The woman should a friend of the family

7. Highly preferred that she be also Chinese-Thai

I lived under these rules for about a year even though I had the means to get my own place right from the get go. I did it in order to try and become more ingrained in society and culture. I tired very hard to adapt to this new culture but found it too difficult and moved out. It caused a bit of a rift but things have settled now. I appreciate the family first ideals that Thai culture embodies so I've tried to meet it 1/2 way but this overbearing style also has a lot of negatives and can create a very nieve mentality especially towards sex, and relationships.

I have dated inside and outside of the limited range that my family set forth and I will say that no two thai women are alike. I have met women very much like your gf who were for a lack of a better term "prudish" but I have noticed that all you have to do is meet the mother to determine if this is the kind of girl you have. If the mother is very rigid and proper in her mannerisms then the daughter will more than likely be the same. But not all girls that come from these types of families are like this. If they have spent a decent amount of time in the west either travelling or studying or have financial independence then they may be a bit more open sexually. I have also found that the younger generations, women in their early to mid twenties are more sexually active. They still may live at home and may not be able to spend the night but they will still be eager whenever the opportunity presents itself. I believe that Thailand is starting to experience a sexual and cultural revolution much akin to what happened in the US in the 60's.

Like others have said, if you find that you really like this woman as a companion but the sex-life is less than desirable and it's not going to change you can always have another woman on the side. Most Thai men who are in your predicament may marry a woman because of here social status and background in order to appease the family but will have "giks" on the side to full fill their other needs. Or of course you could just find another woman who meets all of your needs, it's not too difficult.

[DrTuner]

The mia noi tradition is well supported by government, too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3255350.stm

""To have a mia noi is an individual's right. There should be no problem as long as the politician causes no trouble to his family or society," one MP, Thirachai Sirikhan, told The Nation."

Imagine some politician doing that in the west. The feminists would rip his limbs off Roman style.

[davejones]

You should read Thai Fever. It is available at bookstores all over and is an excellent read about East/West relationships. The book features both Thai and English so you and your girlfriend can read it together. It covers some of the questions you raise.

I thought that book was pretty rubbish. The Western things they talked about were mostly a load of tosh. I asked a few Thai people about the Thai side, and they said most was tosh as well.

[tolsti]

I know of a quiet lonely bridge that you can adopt as your own. You can live in peace under this bridge and collect t®olls from every one who passes. Not sure about the sex 3 times a month though.... Hiso generally have enough money to pay..... In your dreams pal.

[Naam]

I think you should keep going exactly the way you are, while negotiating some 'give and take' on all issues, not just sex. By give and take, I mean identifying the cultural differences and the personal differences - they are not the same.

As to sex, at face value right now, you two don't seem to be sexually compatible regarding frequency. If that is truly the case, it will cause major issues as time goes by. Btw, average couples do NOT have sexy 3-4 times a week...it's far less than that. If you think she's going to change from 3 times a month to 3 times a week after marriage, you are dreaming.

Even if you think sex is an important part of a relationship, maybe she doesn't and the fact that you love her changes none of that. I don't think you are seeing this clearly and that you are expecting her to change toward what you want.

Question: can you live with sex 3-4 times a month? If the answer is no, or even a qualified no, you need to think about moving on regardless of your feelings. For example, I'm an American, healthy, balanced, etc., and sex 3-4 times a month with the woman I love would be, and always has been.....beautiful.

3-4 times a month? for people who are in their 30s? must be a strange far away planet you hail from

[TommoPhysicist]

Question: can you live with sex 3-4 times a month? If the answer is no, or even a qualified no, you need to think about moving on regardless of your feelings. For example, I'm an American, healthy, balanced, etc., and sex 3-4 times a month with the woman I love would be, and always has been.....beautiful.

If you think sex 3-4 times a month is normal and healthy ..... you need a Thai wife, trust me on this one.

[slapout]

A old song poped into my head as I reviewed the last few posts. Can not remember the title, but it went something like this. 'Once a day every day, all day long.'

[Razzler1973]

It sounds like even though you are boyfriend/girlfriend she is still in the 'getting to know you' phase whereas you are in the 'this is my g/f phase'.

Maybe she doesn't consider this a full blown relationship as yet so isn't going sexually insane for you? I can understand the not touching in public but as said above there are ways she will find to just touch you if she wants to. I also agree with what someone else said here that no matter what happens and you may live happily ever after but I doubt she'll go from 3 times a month to 3 times a week or something.

Also, you were introduced via friends, is she used to the whole farang way of things? Perhaps sex with you is not comfortable or she likes specific things. Need to talk with her 'I really like spending time alone with you' and things like that.

[personchester]

It sounds like even though you are boyfriend/girlfriend she is still in the 'getting to know you' phase whereas you are in the 'this is my g/f phase'.

Maybe she doesn't consider this a full blown relationship as yet so isn't going sexually insane for you? I can understand the not touching in public but as said above there are ways she will find to just touch you if she wants to. I also agree with what someone else said here that no matter what happens and you may live happily ever after but I doubt she'll go from 3 times a month to 3 times a week or something.

Also, you were introduced via friends, is she used to the whole farang way of things? Perhaps sex with you is not comfortable or she likes specific things. Need to talk with her 'I really like spending time alone with you' and things like that.

The proposed talk that you suggested would not be effective, because SHE might think that he wants is to play cards with her, he should talk to her clearly, precisely, and direct to the point in order to clarify their sexual relationship.

Thus he should say ... darling I like to make love to you consistently, her response will then clarify his relationship with her, if her response is negative, then he should leave her and look for a new gf.

[LawrenceChee]

I have dated a few Thai good girls and would say I agree with Tommo...if a Thai woman loves you, she would find every opportunity to touch you in public, mostly not sexual, but a light touch on the arm, leaning aginst you etc, and having their hands on yours when you are seated in a restaurant etc.

They are not keen to be outlandish in public or be seen as a cheap sl** but they cetainly want to want the giks, mia nois who are lurking around to know this one is well and truly taken.

Most Thai girls from a conservative background I have met are really into sex, forbidden fruit maybe ? So if sex is a big deal for you for the marriage and this girl is your soulmate, speak with her, above all they want to please ...so if this is the deal breaker, I am sure if she loves you just as much, she will respond to your needs or it is a good opportunity to walk away before discovering it is too late.

Culturally, the close family ties will either endear you to the family or be a sore point later in the marriage / relationship. Asian cultural family ties are just deep and assisting often means it defies logic...

[thenoilif]

I have dated a few Thai good girls and would say I agree with Tommo...if a Thai woman loves you, she would find every opportunity to touch you in public, mostly not sexual, but a light touch on the arm, leaning aginst you etc, and having their hands on yours when you are seated in a restaurant etc.

They are not keen to be outlandish in public or be seen as a cheap sl** but they cetainly want to want the giks, mia nois who are lurking around to know this one is well and truly taken.

Most Thai girls from a conservative background I have met are really into sex, forbidden fruit maybe ? So if sex is a big deal for you for the marriage and this girl is your soulmate, speak with her, above all they want to please ...so if this is the deal breaker, I am sure if she loves you just as much, she will respond to your needs or it is a good opportunity to walk away before discovering it is too late.

Culturally, the close family ties will either endear you to the family or be a sore point later in the marriage / relationship. Asian cultural family ties are just deep and assisting often means it defies logic...

I have highlighted a few key points that I will disagree with based on my experiences and given that you are using broad generalities I will stick with the thai female population as a whole.

As I stated previous I'm part thai so I have dated Thai women from both a farang and a Thai point of view. I have also observed other dating situations from both sides and found that the OP's problem is a cultural/social issue.

Public displays of affection are not common place in thai relationships especially in middle class or upper class society. This is easily displayed wherever you go. It is very rare to see a thai couple touching each other, even lightly, and the ones that do show p.d.a are usually of the younger generations. Holding hands is even a rarer sight. When it does happen, look around and you will see older Thai's staring with a bit of a disgusted look on their face.

Regarding sex, I would also say that conservative Chinese and Thai women are not as open sexually as you state. Sure, some will want to have sex but very few pursue it because of her undying respect for her family. In most conservative families a women who has sex before marriage is considered a whore plain and simple. A woman who gets pregnant before she is married causes a major loss of face for the family, especially if the man refuses to marry the woman. These women will be looked down upon and not just by their family but by people associated with the family. Even the small chance of this happening is enough for most to not have sex. There are hundreds of thousands of women in the country who will go through their entire lives not having sex because they never married and respect their family too much. Many relationships between men and conservative women fail because the men pressure the women too much about sex.

I'm sure that some women from a conservative family and some will have it more than others but the ones that do have sex will be much more like the OP is experiencing. Interestingly enough, the women who defy their family's wishes and have premarital sex are prone to go after a foreigner over a Thai because she can get outside of her social circle and keep it fairly secret thus her reputation can stay intact.

The thing that foreigners should understand is the women that are open to sexual or romantic relationships with us are not representative of thai women as a whole. A large portion of the women who pursue farangs are bar girls, women from very poor means, financially independent women, which there are few, and a small percentage of western educated women, which is a small group in itself. All but the last two do not come from "conservative families" or a least what Thai's consider conservative. I would wager that most of the women that forum members socialize with fall into these demographics which we can perceive as being a large part of the population especially if you only hang around farang areas.

Edited November 5, 2012 by thenoilif

[LawrenceChee]

agree with the Noilif. the ones I hang out with although are Chinese may not be rich enough to fall under that category.

My business exposes me to some of these elite families and the women are kept under wraps better than the middle eastern girls. Beautiful but untouchable unless you have the right family name.

There is hope for all of us as there are beautiful thai local woman who do not fall under the bar girl trade. I have met many and they have charmed the life out of me and enriched my experience there. Many are just curious about foreigners and if you start a friendship the way it should...not every relationship needs to go under the wraps

[tingtongtourist]

Many words and theories from the TV wiseguys but really all that western thinking dont mean zippo here...sound like a da_mn dear dorothy column

Truth is this girls family (and all others of the ilk) do teach the girl from an early age NOT to "give the benefit" out early.

Until they see some commitment ie marriage or at least a promise of, the father will not want her giving away any "benefits" and assume the lousy kid will do his business and then moove on to the next ..especially since the kid s a farang he will think like that.

And certainly if that happen there be no good in it for them. Father then has daughter "tainted" by the farang, he runs away to farang land and his daughter get stuck with the label of the farangs ex tart.

Of course this then ruin her good chance for marriage with someone respectable (in his thought)

Gauranteed the father will be constantly in her ear about "whats the boys plan?" while he checks out the kids job,status,money,dowry and prospect for the future,so they can gain a better situation for her.

It is possible this girl not such a prude and might even want to do the rhombo more often but also the mother would be in her other ear..if you give it away then no need for the boy to marry, he will just keep taking all you can eat buffet till he get bored and then will want to go eat at the new sushi joint down the road."

Believe me buddy,dont expect much more free nookie until theres talk of marriage, and even then it comes down to IF they accept you.

You could possibly get married,pay big dowry everythin set up real nice and find she fridgid and only want it 3 times a month

Everythin in lifes a gamble kid and for sure there aint no free lunches

[twinpin]

Jimison I am Much older than you, So is my wife, Been married 6 years we still enjoy sex at least once per week.

What is she like. does she enjoy it or does she go through the motions. In other words is she having sex only to please you. If that is the case move on mate it wont get better after maraige.

I would say it will be less frequent. If that is not compatable with you it wont work out long term Best find someone who is.

[Payboy]

OP hasn't shown up since his 1st post nearly 2 months ago. Guess he's got his rocks off by now.

[DaffyDuck]

I'll wager the OP will return in 6-8 months, now married, with the same complaints.

[Poo Ying FeFe]

Hiya, sorry if I'm repeating something, I haven't got enough time to read through all the replies yet...

Have you talked to her about what birth control she's using? If she's on the pill it an play havec with the hormones (libido) and emotions of course!! We ladies experience all types of horrible ugly side affects from these. Perhaps discussing something like ths with her will help you guys to pick something suitable.

Also, some skinny Thai girls take diet pills/ diet drinks and depending on which one, they destroy a woman's libido.

Hope this helps.

[Poo Ying FeFe]

OP hasn't shown up since his 1st post nearly 2 months ago. Guess he's got his rocks off by now.

Or, he is a regular member who signed up with a new profile to post a thread which is rather personal. I respect if someone wants feedback and maintain anonymity.

I can think of a dozen reasons why some women are more prudish than others and these have nothing to do with being of any particular race. However, it doesnt help that Thailand doesn't allow their women to purchase sex toys (legally anyways). My advice to foreign guys... Bring your gal a nice little gift next time you're out of the country

Edited January 25, 2013 by Poo Ying FeFe

[Osiris]

All the various opinions not withstanding, the reality is that if you are not happy in the bedroom, man or woman, you look around for someone who will make you happy, for the most primal of reasons.

I suggest instead of having making love to her, you have sex with her. Tell her a sexy story and have the whole experience be about fun in a sexual way. After you have achieved "transference" in a sexual way, "<removed>" her like you don't care. When she can't walk straight and remembers what you said you may have something to build upon, because most women want to be submissive sexually. If she doesn't come running back for more, walk away, because you have different appetites.

If you need a mia noi, stay single, it's cheaper and you are not likely to get an appendage removed..

[shiroboi]

When I first met my thai wife, we would meet on the weekends and have sex an average of once a week. After getting married, we've had sex on average of once a week. Don't assume that more alone time means more sexytime. If she doesn't have the sex drive to have it every time you guys hang out, it probably isn't there.

[maturebrit]

i think your doing well,

her perents acording to you, still think she,s a vergin,

ie not having sex before married,

hahaha verging on the ridiclous you mean

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Lizard0]

OP,

I come from a family like your girlfriend's but I was born and raised in the US by my mother. Upon coming to Thailand to spend time with and get to know my father I experienced a major cultural clash with my Chinese-Thai family because their ultra conservative views didn't jive with my western free living ideals.

These are just some of the cultural ideals that my family has bestowed upon me since my arrival:

1. Cannot spend the night with a woman until marriage

2. Do not date below your social circle i.e. the woman has to be college educated Masters degree preferable, have a above average job (typical office girl is not good enough), come from a upper middle class or higher family

3. I live at home with parents until I marry.

4. Curfew of 2am

5. If I eventually find a woman that I want to be in a serious relationship with she must be approved by the entire family

6. The woman should a friend of the family

7. Highly preferred that she be also Chinese-Thai

I lived under these rules for about a year even though I had the means to get my own place right from the get go. I did it in order to try and become more ingrained in society and culture. I tired very hard to adapt to this new culture but found it too difficult and moved out. It caused a bit of a rift but things have settled now. I appreciate the family first ideals that Thai culture embodies so I've tried to meet it 1/2 way but this overbearing style also has a lot of negatives and can create a very nieve mentality especially towards sex, and relationships.

I have dated inside and outside of the limited range that my family set forth and I will say that no two thai women are alike. I have met women very much like your gf who were for a lack of a better term "prudish" but I have noticed that all you have to do is meet the mother to determine if this is the kind of girl you have. If the mother is very rigid and proper in her mannerisms then the daughter will more than likely be the same. But not all girls that come from these types of families are like this. If they have spent a decent amount of time in the west either travelling or studying or have financial independence then they may be a bit more open sexually. I have also found that the younger generations, women in their early to mid twenties are more sexually active. They still may live at home and may not be able to spend the night but they will still be eager whenever the opportunity presents itself. I believe that Thailand is starting to experience a sexual and cultural revolution much akin to what happened in the US in the 60's.

Like others have said, if you find that you really like this woman as a companion but the sex-life is less than desirable and it's not going to change you can always have another woman on the side. Most Thai men who are in your predicament may marry a woman because of here social status and background in order to appease the family but will have "giks" on the side to full fill their other needs. Or of course you could just find another woman who meets all of your needs, it's not too difficult.

This is exactly what I have experienced with my GF who is Chinese/Thai and from a upper-middle class family.

I think most Westerners don't end up meeting girls like this. I was lucky that she is a little modern with the Internet etc.

Also opposed to marrying a Thai since she did not like seeing her Mom have to deal with indiscretions, second wife in China etc etc etc

I'm a monogamous guy, even though its fighting my genes at every turn lol!

Girls like this are still ruled 100% by family, honor and the like. Its not really a matter of them not wanting to have sex, its having them chose you over their parents wishes for a pure bride on wedding day :/

Thought I would add my 2 satang lol

[poanoi]

You'll get a miserable life if she isnt horny like a mink,

discontinue and start over, but next time, dont waste your time too much