Asia's Archaic Sex Work Laws

[chiangmaikelly]

I think it is better because it is work. People should not get arrested because of working. A sex worker is not the same a bank robber. Some countries treat them the same. Call it what it is. It is work. Love is love and sex work is work. Big difference.

I think within some social groups they could also refer to Bank Robbery as work as that is what they do for a living but that is not the point. The point is that if you choose to prostitute yourself by providing sexual favour for money then it is prostitution by definition. Calling it sex worker it simply a sub definition promoted to lessen the impact of the perceived stigma associated to prostitutes, and as I said before nothing changes. I think that people living in Asia have less of a stigmatisation with regard to prostitution owing to a variety of factors.

Furthermore, there are no countries outside th Middle East tat I know of where prostitution is treated in the same jurisprudence as Bank Robbery. Perhaps or difference on this is akin to one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

I think you can go to jail in most States in America for prostitution.

[Beetlejuice]

Particularly in Thailand since there are no laws are on the books for men who like to get off and make babies are hunted down and forced to pay financal support..'Unlike the west where large percentage a man's salary may be attached or thrown in Jail if they fail to financially support children whom he help foster into theworld, there-by putting the total weight & financial burden 100% percent on the woman, what alternatives does she have in light of and in view of total lack of education and the necessary skills to be a productive individual in a society which is governed irresponsible and imature men.Until more women get into grass root politics and obtain political clout to change the rules of the game...NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE.

A man would never get away with that kind of crap in the western countires, especially in the U.SA.

and periodically the man would be taken to court by the woman for increases in child support based on a record of his salary increases if any, usually win.

Although this has nothing to do with the theme of this thread, I’ll answer you anyway.

The problem is that the rules regarding the rights of wives/girlfriends in the West has gone way over the top to almost Fascist proportions in favour of the women:

Here are some facts regarding the feminist rights of Western women:

The woman controls whether the male partner has sex or not. She controls whether she gets pregnant or not. She determines whether to have an abortion or not (even if the man or husband wants the child). She has the option to divorce her husband at any point during the marriage, just on the grounds that she no longer wishes to remain with her partner and if there are children involved, in 99.99% of cases, she gets the family home and the kids, even if there is a new partner on the scene, plus child support and alimony. The woman gets paid even if she is the partner that dissolved the marriage and still gets paid even if the male partner and her don't legally marry.

I know of some men that had been completely destroyed under these Draconian Laws where their spouses with the full force and support of the legal system behind them, have literally picked the bones clean from their male partners until there was nothing left. Totally unfair as there appears to be no compromise clauses within the legal system in favour of male partners regarding divorce, separations and the custody of children.

These days in the West, one can be classified as a pervert for even looking at a woman. The laws of women’s rights has been taken to the extremes and in many cases the women are in a no lose situation and will abuse and take full advantage of these laws to work in their favour so that they may live their preferred lifestyle without any consideration for the rights of the male partners or fathers of the couples children.

As for prostitution, there will always be women wanting and willing to become sex workers, no matter from what walks of life they come from and men wanting to use their services. The way forward and best method to resolve archaic sex work laws is to completely legalise prostitution and other services within the sex industries. This has already been done in some States of Australia, America and in some European countries. This way the sex industries become regulated under Government legislation with imposed guidelines for both the protection of the sex workers and the customers.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[Tywais]

Way back during the late 60's in Olongapo City, Philippines, just outside the main gate

to the US Naval Station Subic Bay, all the "sex workers" were required to carry one of

two "cards"...kinda thick paper issued by the health department. One card was green,

the other was Red and it was a law that the "sex workers" have either card on their

person at all times plus the "establishment" that employed said workers would be

closed down if said workers who carried Green Cards were in fact supposed to be

carrying Red Cards...and it was the establishments responsibility to ensure said

workers went to the local government clinics twice a week for chech-ups.

Actually that was the same in Thailand a few decades ago. They were required to

have a card with health clearance for STDs shown in it.

[sunshine51]

Way back during the late 60's in Olongapo City, Philippines, just outside the main gate

to the US Naval Station Subic Bay, all the "sex workers" were required to carry one of

two "cards"...kinda thick paper issued by the health department. One card was green,

the other was Red and it was a law that the "sex workers" have either card on their

person at all times plus the "establishment" that employed said workers would be

closed down if said workers who carried Green Cards were in fact supposed to be

carrying Red Cards...and it was the establishments responsibility to ensure said

workers went to the local government clinics twice a week for chech-ups.

Actually that was the same in Thailand a few decades ago. They were required to

have a card with health clearance for STDs shown in it.

Too true Tywais...I just remember the sheer joy of green card holding PI bargirls

more than the more reserved, but just as nice mind you, attitude of the BG's in

BKK during R & R stints there. It does appear that by the mid 80's the cards

were no longer a must have though...at least not for the girls in Thermae!

[warfie]

Particularly in Thailand since there are no laws are on the books for men who like to get off and make babies are hunted down and forced to pay financal support..'Unlike the west where large percentage a man's salary may be attached or thrown in Jail if they fail to financially support children whom he help foster into theworld, there-by putting the total weight & financial burden 100% percent on the woman, what alternatives does she have in light of and in view of total lack of education and the necessary skills to be a productive individual in a society which is governed irresponsible and imature men.Until more women get into grass root politics and obtain political clout to change the rules of the game...NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE.

A man would never get away with that kind of crap in the western countires, especially in the U.SA.

and periodically the man would be taken to court by the woman for increases in child support based on a record of his salary increases if any, usually win.

Which has exactly what to do with the topic at hand?

Asia's Archaic Sex Work Laws

[softgeorge]

Particularly in Thailand since there are no laws are on the books for men who like to get off and make babies are hunted down and forced to pay financal support..'Unlike the west where large percentage a man's salary may be attached or thrown in Jail if they fail to financially support children whom he help foster into theworld, there-by putting the total weight & financial burden 100% percent on the woman, what alternatives does she have in light of and in view of total lack of education and the necessary skills to be a productive individual in a society which is governed irresponsible and imature men.Until more women get into grass root politics and obtain political clout to change the rules of the game...NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE.

A man would never get away with that kind of crap in the western countires, especially in the U.SA.

and periodically the man would be taken to court by the woman for increases in child support based on a record of his salary increases if any, usually win.

Which has exactly what to do with the topic at hand?

Asia's Archaic Sex Work Laws

I was thinking the same, the very first reply to the topic and it was way off and had absolutely nothing to do with the subject. He probably was responding to something else and forgot he switched screens. It can happen and an honest error.

[TommoPhysicist]

That is a problem about proof, not about the law. (There was a case in germany where a woman had multiple sex partners, in that case 3 or 5. All had to undergo DNA testing and the father was determined and made to pay).

Now try that game with a Pattaya hooker doing 100 guys a month.

Who would pay for all the testing, how would they track the guys down.

I know, compulsory DNA testing and database of every foreign male entering Thailand.

[softgeorge]

That is a problem about proof, not about the law. (There was a case in germany where a woman had multiple sex partners, in that case 3 or 5. All had to undergo DNA testing and the father was determined and made to pay).

Now try that game with a Pattaya hooker doing 100 guys a month.

Who would pay for all the testing, how would they track the guys down.

I know, compulsory DNA testing and database of every foreign male entering Thailand.

Geez I think some of the sex tourists and the odd expats would have a few kids running around Thailand that they do not know about. yep but conpulsory DNA samples from all males entering the Kingdom would be the only way to link the fathers to the prostitutes and thier offspring.

[55Jay]

Way back during the late 60's in Olongapo City, Philippines, just outside the main gate

to the US Naval Station Subic Bay, all the "sex workers" were required to carry one of

two "cards"...kinda thick paper issued by the health department. One card was green,

the other was Red and it was a law that the "sex workers" have either card on their

person at all times plus the "establishment" that employed said workers would be

closed down if said workers who carried Green Cards were in fact supposed to be

carrying Red Cards...and it was the establishments responsibility to ensure said

workers went to the local government clinics twice a week for chech-ups.

This all came about when the clap and syph got outta hand and a lotta Sailors

and Marines contracted the STD's while on "shore leave" so the Navy and the

Government of the PI got together and set up the card scheme. The scheme

ran from around the late 60's until the US bases in the PI closed in 1992.

After closure and with the advent of HIV/AIDS many bar owners along with

the government kept the scheme going issuing the "sex workers" a credit

card looking smart card device that could be swiped almost anywhere it

needed to be swiped...say upon the levy of an "escort fee" to the mamasan

at whatever "establishment" the "sex worker" was employed. As for freelancers

they also had to abide by the laws and carry their cards or face long prison

sentences.

The hell with trying to be 21st century politically correct....back in the day

the girls in the bars were very happy to wave their green card in your face.

The girls with red cards were a bit more reserved in their exhuberance but

nevertheless quite happy if one could wait till their next checkup showed

they could get their green card back.

The result...a dramatic drop in the transmission of STD's and both the Navy,

the PI & Olongapo Governments and the girls families were very happy.

Thailand could implement a similar programme also however I reckon

that dam_n face thing would rear it's ugly head and mess matters up

plus clinics would be open to receiving relatively large sums of money

for fraudulently issuing Clean/STD Negative chops on the cards.

It's worth a try though....IMHO...

As far as pregnancy's go...it's the girl's responsibility to use birth control

and the man's responsibility to use a condom or get a vasectomy....

shit happens and when it does somebody has to bear the brunt of the

brat.

Sunshine, you post brought back memories of Po-City. Times were a bit different back then before HIV/AIDS though.

The "Doc" checks and card program brought about a false sense of security for the girl and to pass that illusion along to the prospective punters. Wave the card, "see, I'm safe, I'm clean" but nothing to say the guy yesterday didn't pass something along to her but not detected until the next checkup, and bare back was the norm in those earlier days.

However, your post is valid to OP in a programmatic sense. Acknowledge it, organize, educate, and try to control it.

PI and USN were successful because they were two organizations cooperating in a relatively small area. They got over or at least shoved aside their own societal and religious morales, accepted things as were, and that it would continue with or without them. At least they had a go at it. It was, however, a selfish goal for the USN in protecting their own. Benefit to the local population was a by-product.

You are right, Thailand would be different but it could work (rose tinted glasses on). The hurdle will be Thai Government and politicians going it alone to implement such a thing, which by default acknowledges the whole thing exists. That's not an easy pill to swallow.

[chiangmaikelly]

That is a problem about proof, not about the law. (There was a case in germany where a woman had multiple sex partners, in that case 3 or 5. All had to undergo DNA testing and the father was determined and made to pay).

Now try that game with a Pattaya hooker doing 100 guys a month.

Who would pay for all the testing, how would they track the guys down.

I know, compulsory DNA testing and database of every foreign male entering Thailand.

Geez I think some of the sex tourists and the odd expats would have a few kids running around Thailand that they do not know about. yep but conpulsory DNA samples from all males entering the Kingdom would be the only way to link the fathers to the prostitutes and thier offspring.

Do you know how many Aussies and Yanks were stationed in Thailand from 1965 to 1975?

[SteeleJoe]

That is a problem about proof, not about the law. (There was a case in germany where a woman had multiple sex partners, in that case 3 or 5. All had to undergo DNA testing and the father was determined and made to pay).

Now try that game with a Pattaya hooker doing 100 guys a month.

Who would pay for all the testing, how would they track the guys down.

I know, compulsory DNA testing and database of every foreign male entering Thailand.

Geez I think some of the sex tourists and the odd expats would have a few kids running around Thailand that they do not know about. yep but conpulsory DNA samples from all males entering the Kingdom would be the only way to link the fathers to the prostitutes and thier offspring.

Do you know how many Aussies and Yanks were stationed in Thailand from 1965 to 1975?

I have a pretty good idea (and even have the actual numbers somewhere around here -- this is my field!).

Why?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chiangmaikelly]

Now try that game with a Pattaya hooker doing 100 guys a month.

Who would pay for all the testing, how would they track the guys down.

I know, compulsory DNA testing and database of every foreign male entering Thailand.

Geez I think some of the sex tourists and the odd expats would have a few kids running around Thailand that they do not know about. yep but conpulsory DNA samples from all males entering the Kingdom would be the only way to link the fathers to the prostitutes and thier offspring.

Do you know how many Aussies and Yanks were stationed in Thailand from 1965 to 1975?

I have a pretty good idea (and even have the actual numbers somewhere around here -- this is my field!).

Why?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

DNA

That was 40 years ago. By now half of Thailand may be related to Australians or Americans.

40 years ago there was no HIV.

Things were a bit more relaxed.

Lets see, 50,000 troops rotating every year or two..... How many does that make in 10 years.

Edited October 24, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[softgeorge]

That is a problem about proof, not about the law. (There was a case in germany where a woman had multiple sex partners, in that case 3 or 5. All had to undergo DNA testing and the father was determined and made to pay).

Now try that game with a Pattaya hooker doing 100 guys a month.

Who would pay for all the testing, how would they track the guys down.

I know, compulsory DNA testing and database of every foreign male entering Thailand.

Geez I think some of the sex tourists and the odd expats would have a few kids running around Thailand that they do not know about. yep but conpulsory DNA samples from all males entering the Kingdom would be the only way to link the fathers to the prostitutes and thier offspring.

Do you know how many Aussies and Yanks were stationed in Thailand from 1965 to 1975?

60,000 aussies served b/w 1962 - 1972 and only small part would have spent time in Thailand over that 10 yrs.

[SteeleJoe]

DNA

That was 40 years ago. By now half of Thailand may be related to Australians or Americans.

40 years ago there was no HIV.

Things were a bit more relaxed.

Oh, I see (I think). A bit of an exaggeration of course but yes those that have DNA of Australian or US fathers/grandfathers (or S. Korean or Filipino of the same era and here for the same reason) would be more than just misbegotten offspring of sex tourists. Doubtless some of them would be children of members of this forum. However, DNA obviously doesn't delineate a nationality either, only a specific father...so...what are we talking about again?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[SteeleJoe]

How on earth is a thai prostitute going to know who the father is, she lays down with a dozen foreign sex tourists a day.

Uhmmm...are you unaware of the fact that "Thai prostitute" describes a huge number of women -- indeed the vast majority of said profession -- that do not service foreign sex tourists?

Just wondering...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chiangmaikelly]

Now try that game with a Pattaya hooker doing 100 guys a month.

Who would pay for all the testing, how would they track the guys down.

I know, compulsory DNA testing and database of every foreign male entering Thailand.

Geez I think some of the sex tourists and the odd expats would have a few kids running around Thailand that they do not know about. yep but conpulsory DNA samples from all males entering the Kingdom would be the only way to link the fathers to the prostitutes and thier offspring.

Do you know how many Aussies and Yanks were stationed in Thailand from 1965 to 1975?

60,000 aussies served b/w 1962 - 1972 and only small part would have spent time in Thailand over that 10 yrs.

I was told the Aussies were waiting all set up in the bars long before the Yanks got to Pattaya.

[chiangmaikelly]

Particularly in Thailand since there are no laws are on the books for men who like to get off and make babies are hunted down and forced to pay financal support..'Unlike the west where large percentage a man's salary may be attached or thrown in Jail if they fail to financially support children whom he help foster into theworld, there-by putting the total weight & financial burden 100% percent on the woman, what alternatives does she have in light of and in view of total lack of education and the necessary skills to be a productive individual in a society which is governed irresponsible and imature men.Until more women get into grass root politics and obtain political clout to change the rules of the game...NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE.

A man would never get away with that kind of crap in the western countires, especially in the U.SA.

and periodically the man would be taken to court by the woman for increases in child support based on a record of his salary increases if any, usually win.

Which has exactly what to do with the topic at hand?

Asia's Archaic Sex Work Laws

I was thinking the same, the very first reply to the topic and it was way off and had absolutely nothing to do with the subject. He probably was responding to something else and forgot he switched screens. It can happen and an honest error.

Just my opinion of course but I don't think anyone on Thai Visa with the possible exception of myself and one or two others wants to discuss Asia's archaic sex laws.

Just my opinion but I think that the people on Thai Visa think that anyone who engages in prostitution without wearing a hair shirt and flagellating themselves for at least 6 years is a bad person.

Just my opinion but I think this is especially true if the person is overweight, older and follicly challenged.

So far I think there have only been 9 out of 46 posts that were on topic.

[SteeleJoe]

Particularly in Thailand since there are no laws are on the books for men who like to get off and make babies are hunted down and forced to pay financal support..'Unlike the west where large percentage a man's salary may be attached or thrown in Jail if they fail to financially support children whom he help foster into theworld, there-by putting the total weight & financial burden 100% percent on the woman, what alternatives does she have in light of and in view of total lack of education and the necessary skills to be a productive individual in a society which is governed irresponsible and imature men.Until more women get into grass root politics and obtain political clout to change the rules of the game...NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE.

A man would never get away with that kind of crap in the western countires, especially in the U.SA.

and periodically the man would be taken to court by the woman for increases in child support based on a record of his salary increases if any, usually win.

Which has exactly what to do with the topic at hand?

Asia's Archaic Sex Work Laws

I was thinking the same, the very first reply to the topic and it was way off and had absolutely nothing to do with the subject. He probably was responding to something else and forgot he switched screens. It can happen and an honest error.

Just my opinion of course but I don't think anyone on Thai Visa with the possible exception of myself and one or two others wants to discuss Asia's archaic sex laws.

Just my opinion but I think that the people on Thai Visa think that anyone who engages in prostitution without wearing a hair shirt and flagellating themselves for at least 6 years is a bad person.

Just my opinion but I think this is especially true if the person is overweight, older and follicly challenged.

So far I think there have only been 9 out of 46 posts that were on topic.

Not that you were speaking to me or would/should care but for the record: my thinking on the sex industry and those who work in it or are consumers of it, is probably not typical and far more nuanced (and I daresay often more informed) than many people's. But once upon a time, in another place, I wrote a lot about it and am sort of burnt out so I didn't comment on the OP.

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Edited October 24, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[chiangmaikelly]

Which has exactly what to do with the topic at hand?

Asia's Archaic Sex Work Laws

I was thinking the same, the very first reply to the topic and it was way off and had absolutely nothing to do with the subject. He probably was responding to something else and forgot he switched screens. It can happen and an honest error.

Just my opinion of course but I don't think anyone on Thai Visa with the possible exception of myself and one or two others wants to discuss Asia's archaic sex laws.

Just my opinion but I think that the people on Thai Visa think that anyone who engages in prostitution without wearing a hair shirt and flagellating themselves for at least 6 years is a bad person.

Just my opinion but I think this is especially true if the person is overweight, older and follicly challenged.

So far I think there have only been 9 out of 46 posts that were on topic.

Not that you were speaking to me or would/should care but for the record: my thinking on the sex industry and those who work in it or are consumers of it, is probably not typical and far more nuanced (and I daresay often more informed) than many people's. But once upon a time, in another place, I wrote a lot about it and am sort of burnt out so I didn't comment on the OP.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

So what do you think, "In fact, just about every country’s approach does more harm than good, fueling stigma and discrimination, limiting access to sexual health services and condoms, and affecting the self-esteem of sex workers who may have no other avenue to earn income, according to a new United Nations report." Is the report correct? I mean we have a couple of posters above who even disagree with raising the sex workers self esteem by calling them sex workers.

[kirk0233]

Any ambitious change in laws regarding prostitution would require the cooperation of the police who currently control/make money from illegal prostitution. I don't believe anything like this will happen until Thailand takes care of the problem of law enforcement first.

[Jim walker]

I think the majority of prostitutes in Thailand are very sensible regarding them not having unprotected sex with clients, and I also think the prostitute’s western customers are also very educated and are aware of HIV and all the other STD’s that you can receive / give by having unprotected sex.

[chiangmaikelly]

I think the majority of prostitutes in Thailand are very sensible regarding them not having unprotected sex with clients, and I also think the prostitute’s western customers are also very educated and are aware of HIV and all the other STD’s that you can receive / give by having unprotected sex.

"Often, sex workers are portrayed as passive victims who need to be saved. Assuming that all workers are trafficked, denies the autonomy and [choice] of people who sell sex." Prostitutes "rescued" against their will often suffer an immediate and devastating loss of income. Their colleagues, also working voluntarily, then often hide from authorities and end up in worse conditions where they are exploited and more vulnerable to HIV infection, the report said.

[softgeorge]

Call them whatever you like, they are still what they are. They will still be prostituting themselves no matter what name you attach to them. Call a parrot a peacock it is still a parrot.

[chiangmaikelly]

Call them whatever you like, they are still what they are. They will still be prostituting themselves no matter what name you attach to them. Call a parott a peacock it is still a parot.

You hit the nail on the head. The UN says there are people like you. See, the UN just thinks it is a job. Where as you think it is something dirty, or immoral.

[Jim walker]

I would say most of the prostitutes I have encountered in Thailand are working due to their own choice and are quite happy doing a job that brings them money and pleasure, I am in no doubt it is a lazy option for many of the girls rather than going out and getting a hard physical manual job. + the money is better than most menial jobs for the less educated girls.

[chiangmaikelly]

All us guys are here all smug and stuff. I wonder what we would do if a woman came up to us and offered a weeks wages to go to a bar and party for a night and end up in a classy hotel with room service steaks and wine and football on TV. Would I call the cops and have her arrested?

Edited October 24, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[Halion]

Don't you just love it when a group such as the UN Development Program start manipulating the English language, so it is now suggested that in view of political correctness we refer to such activities as sex workers. Changes nothing in my opinion and will have absolutely no impact on the attitudes of individuals on both sides of the fence. Do they really think that a sex worker in Thailand gives a dam as to whether Falangs call her a prostitute or a sex worker.. Hi Mum I would like you to meet Nong who is my gf I met in Pattaya. No , no she is not a prostitute she is a sex worker !!. As I said before ,changes nothing.

I think it is better because it is work. People should not get arrested because of working. A sex worker is not the same a bank robber. Some countries treat them the same. Call it what it is. It is work. Love is love and sex work is work. Big difference.

It is, I suppose work however, it is still prostitution. In some sections of society bank robbery could be considered as work as it is their chosen profession, illegal certainly but it is how they earn a living. I fail to see why we need to consider changes in the potential stigma associated with a specific profession. It is what it is. Furthermore in my experience, excluding the Middle East,bank robbery carries a significantly higher jurisprudence than prostitution. There is a myriad of terms used in Europe and the USA in order to deviate from the reality, such as Escort , Call Girl, Hooker, and they are all Sex Workers and by definition prostitutes. Changing the name does nothing to minimise the activity. Perhaps this is akin to , one mans terroist is another mans freedom fighter.

[softgeorge]

Call them whatever you like, they are still what they are. They will still be prostituting themselves no matter what name you attach to them. Call a parott a peacock it is still a parot.

You hit the nail on the head. The UN says there are people like you. See, the UN just thinks it is a job. Where as you think it is something dirty, or immoral.

Well I do have a personal opinion of bargirls and the things they do but I will not say what it is on here.

[chiangmaikelly]

Don't you just love it when a group such as the UN Development Program start manipulating the English language, so it is now suggested that in view of political correctness we refer to such activities as sex workers. Changes nothing in my opinion and will have absolutely no impact on the attitudes of individuals on both sides of the fence. Do they really think that a sex worker in Thailand gives a dam as to whether Falangs call her a prostitute or a sex worker.. Hi Mum I would like you to meet Nong who is my gf I met in Pattaya. No , no she is not a prostitute she is a sex worker !!. As I said before ,changes nothing.

I think it is better because it is work. People should not get arrested because of working. A sex worker is not the same a bank robber. Some countries treat them the same. Call it what it is. It is work. Love is love and sex work is work. Big difference.

It is, I suppose work however, it is still prostitution. In some sections of society bank robbery could be considered as work as it is their chosen profession, illegal certainly but it is how they earn a living. I fail to see why we need to consider changes in the potential stigma associated with a specific profession. It is what it is. Furthermore in my experience, excluding the Middle East,bank robbery carries a significantly higher jurisprudence than prostitution. There is a myriad of terms used in Europe and the USA in order to deviate from the reality, such as Escort , Call Girl, Hooker, and they are all Sex Workers and by definition prostitutes. Changing the name does nothing to minimise the activity. Perhaps this is akin to , one mans terroist is another mans freedom fighter.

I don't think the UN is suggesting calling bank robbery work. I do think they are calling prostitution work. They think it is work. Most people who are not stuck in the dark ages think of it as work. I think it was the last 4 thousand or so years convinced most people it was going to stay around for a while.

[Tywais]

Regarding the comparison of bank robbery to prostitution. Bank robbery is universally illegal, prostitution is not.