What's The Big Deal About Marrying A Girl You Met In A Bar ?

[chiangmaikelly]

Its no big deal at all until you come on a forum whining how the bitch took everything you got.

How many posts like that are there here?

[rattler]

Its no big deal at all until you come on a forum whining how the bitch took everything you got.

How many posts like that are there here?

how long have u got?

[pmem]

Here is Something to think about; The Thailand sex industry came of age during the Vietnam War employing thousands and thousands of women over a 15 year period. Many of these women made a lot of money as customers were plentiful. Now, many of this ladies eventually married local men allied to the trade and have lived a middle class life ever since. They left their past behind, married had children and set about giving them the education they could not obtain. Along come our median and middle aged white nights and marry the daughters and some sons. I forgot to mention, their ladies lost her virginity riding a boys bicycle. So before all you you condescending bigots start throwing stones in your glass houses, do a little background checking you maybe quite surprised.

Furthermore, it is clear their Madonna's are the ones with something to hide - bag the BG is the easiest line of defense.

Edited October 31, 2012 by ozall

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Here is Something to think about; The Thailand sex industry came of age during the Vietnam War employing thousands and thousands of women over a 15 year period. Many of these women made a lot of money as customers were plentiful. Now, many of this ladies eventually married local men allied to the trade and have lived a middle class life ever since. They left their past behind, married had children and set about giving them the education they could not obtain. Along come our median and middle aged white nights and marry the daughters and some sons. I forgot to mention, their ladies lost her virginity riding a boys bicycle. So before all you you condescending bigots start throwing stones in your glass houses, do a little background checking you maybe quite surprised.

Furthermore, it is clear their Madonna's are the ones with something to hide - bag the BG is the easiest line of defense.

I don't think I'll bother parsing all this to try to understand all of your intended meaning, but just make sure you understand that the sex industry existed long before any foreigners arrived in Thailand, and at no point has the foreign-targeted segment of it been any more than a statistically insignificant niche market.

[pmem]

Here is Something to think about; The Thailand sex industry came of age during the Vietnam War employing thousands and thousands of women over a 15 year period. Many of these women made a lot of money as customers were plentiful. Now, many of this ladies eventually married local men allied to the trade and have lived a middle class life ever since. They left their past behind, married had children and set about giving them the education they could not obtain. Along come our median and middle aged white nights and marry the daughters and some sons. I forgot to mention, their ladies lost her virginity riding a boys bicycle. So before all you you condescending bigots start throwing stones in your glass houses, do a little background checking you maybe quite surprised.

Furthermore, it is clear their Madonna's are the ones with something to hide - bag the BG is the easiest line of defense.

I don't think I'll bother parsing all this to try to understand all of your intended meaning, but just make sure you understand that the sex industry existed long before any foreigners arrived in Thailand, and at no point has the foreign-targeted segment of it been any more than a statistically insignificant niche market.

And how old are you? Spent a lot of time in Bangkok in the 70's maybe I got to know a lot of your Ladies Mothers and Grandmothers! Edited October 31, 2012 by ozall

[BigJohnnyBKK]

And how old are you?

What's that got to do with the price of bread.

I completely concede the point that Thailand's sex industry was most likely pretty invisible and unavailable to foreigners before the Vietnam era.

That doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Of course historically the upper classes didn't need to actually pay cash directly any more than slave owners back home, but transactional arrangements for sex have existed right back to the stone age in every part of the world, that's why they call it the oldest profession, the evidence shows it existed long before any concept of long-term monogamy.

Trying to claim that foreigners introduced prostitution to Thailand is laughably and obviously false, if you really are trying to argue that I won't bother pursuing it, I thought it was just a writing error on your part.

Edited October 31, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[chiangmaikelly]

Here is Something to think about; The Thailand sex industry came of age during the Vietnam War employing thousands and thousands of women over a 15 year period. Many of these women made a lot of money as customers were plentiful. Now, many of this ladies eventually married local men allied to the trade and have lived a middle class life ever since. They left their past behind, married had children and set about giving them the education they could not obtain. Along come our median and middle aged white nights and marry the daughters and some sons. I forgot to mention, their ladies lost her virginity riding a boys bicycle. So before all you you condescending bigots start throwing stones in your glass houses, do a little background checking you maybe quite surprised.

Furthermore, it is clear their Madonna's are the ones with something to hide - bag the BG is the easiest line of defense.

I believe Thailand's sex industry came of age during the 16th century. Seafaring men have been telling stories about Thailand for centuries. Some are in the log books. Before Vietnam was Klong Toey and Mosquito bar. Actually what the Vietnam war did was fund the Thai infrastructure as 50,000 Americans were stationed in Thailand for 10 years building roads, harbors, airports and all the other things necessary to support the war.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Actually what the Vietnam war did was fund the Thai infrastructure as 50,000 Americans were stationed in Thailand for 10 years building roads, harbors, airports and all the other things necessary to support the war.

WRT the current state of the mainstream catering-to-foreigners explicit sex trade: go-go's, in-the-open beer bars etc., as well as the huge but less explicit informal catch-a-farang scene and its subsequent use of the Internet, I think it's fair to say that all wouldn't have happened at least to the extent we see without the Vietnam war.

My point was just trying to correct the misperception that those particular scenes are Thailand's sex industry - in fact they are just a relatively tiny niche sector of the bigger total.

As a side point, the sex workers in that niche market have much incomes and better working conditions than those in the local-only one. In many cases much better than what is provided for imported English teachers. . .

[TwoDogz]

I'm glad my tattoos make me low class despite the three college degrees and a multi-million baht salary.

Personally I don't judge anyone until I get to know them.

Not directed at you, but some of the worst scum bags on earth inhabit the high rise suites of Wall Street, have multiple degrees, huge salaries and wear suits, and I have no idea if they have tats.

Many of them are women and I'd take a bar girl in Pattaya over any one of them. Just sayin'.

like you would have a choice.

And you would of course. Perhaps your home is best with the bar girl? Perhaps you never get any you don't pay for? Perhaps that's why you're banished to what you've become?

Perhaps.

[DLock]

Am I to understand that every member who posted with shock and horror at blokes hooking up with BG's married virgin nuns. Come on you lot, be it they worked in a bar, did tricks to pay for their Uni degree or belonged to the hosties mile high club what bloody difference does it make. If it is only the BG's that are the bad girls, their is a lot of female public servants, politicians and the like with skeletons in the closet. Maybe all the ex bar girls should have their foreheads tattooed so the high moralized element amongst us can truly recognise them instead of making unjustified presumptions based on looks, body art or clothing. I have heard it a million times over the past 40 years - my wife was the cook or the cashier or worked hard to put herself through Uni. Never the brush, just the broom handle. I don't know what makes me pewk more, your self bloody righteous or your bullshit. Get over it and get on with living.

Given that bargirls are maybe 5% of the Thai female population (source : my guess), then there is 95% of the female Thai population that are not bargirls.

Why do you talk about guys marrying the "cook" or the "cashier" instead of the whore?

You do realize that there is more to Thailand female population than just bar workers, right?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Given that bargirls are maybe 5% of the Thai female population

That's way high and a total insult to the country. Now if you count all the coffee-shop, barber-shop, massage-shop, streetwalkers, brothel workers well then maybe, probably have to toss in some mia nois and office girls servicing the boss etc to get past 5%

And out of that, maybe 5% have anything to do with farang.

Source - my wild-ass guessing.

[pmem]

My point in replies to this topic is that all the prima donnas out there are quick to bag the BG or anyone they believe do not measure up to their own so called moral standard and then have hubby post their misdirected and discriminate unfounded views on TV.

Re: Vietnam War, other than just Americans posted in Thailand there were other farang nationalities here and Bangkok was the R&R capital during the era, attracting hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of serviceman for 7 days at a time. My point was that many of the Mothers and Grandmothers of today's so called educated ladies (whom you all wish us to believe were vestal virgins when you married them) were more than likely associated in some way with earnings from the sex industry during the Vietnam conflict. We are not talking about a niche market we are talking about a massive change in the Thai's income and the countries overall prosperity. The majority of the wealth was accumulated in Bangkok by Bangkok families.

Why even bother to reply to my post if you cannot be bothered to read it in its entirety.

I married a nurse in 1971 (deceased) and am now married to an ex bar girl. The difference between the two - Jack Shit Gentlemen.

[DLock]

My point in replies to this topic is that all the prima donnas out there are quick to bag the BG or anyone they believe do not measure up to their own so called moral standard and then have hubby post their misdirected and discriminate unfounded views on TV.

Re: Vietnam War, other than just Americans posted in Thailand there were other farang nationalities here and Bangkok was the R&R capital during the era, attracting hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of serviceman for 7 days at a time. My point was that many of the Mothers and Grandmothers of today's so called educated ladies (whom you all wish us to believe were vestal virgins when you married them) were more than likely associated in some way with earnings from the sex industry during the Vietnam conflict. We are not talking about a niche market we are talking about a massive change in the Thai's income and the countries overall prosperity. The majority of the wealth was accumulated in Bangkok by Bangkok families.

Why even bother to reply to my post if you cannot be bothered to read it in its entirety.

I married a nurse in 1971 (deceased) and am now married to an ex bar girl. The difference between the two - Jack Shit Gentlemen.

So, you married a 5%er.

Congratulations.

I understand you point of view.

[noob7]

Here is Something to think about; The Thailand sex industry came of age during the Vietnam War employing thousands and thousands of women over a 15 year period.

You should read a bit about King Rama V, slavery in Thailand and the rights of men, to buy females as sex slaves.

Also you should think about, that foreigners are in statistics only about 10% of the 'visitors of prostitutes services in Thailand'.

The other 90% are the Thai males!

Also you should look in some rural areas, where the 'foreigner' is simple not available, as a customer, but still brothels are.

Like a friend of mine thinks, the 'foreigner' section of this business is the nicer part for all involved people.

The local part is a lot cheaper, and includes more pimps and sex mafia, as you probably can imagine!

A Thai man only marries a prostitute, to become her pimp!

Edited October 31, 2012 by noob7

[meom]

I married a nurse in 1971 (deceased) and am now married to an ex bar girl. The difference between the two - Jack Shit Gentlemen.

Main difference between the two is that you don't have to feel guilty when you cheat on the ex bar girl; just increase her allowance and off you go.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

My point in replies to this topic is that all the prima donnas out there are quick to bag the BG or anyone they believe do not measure up to their own so called moral standard and then have hubby post their misdirected and discriminate unfounded views on TV.

Re: Vietnam War, other than just Americans posted in Thailand there were other farang nationalities here and Bangkok was the R&R capital during the era, attracting hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of serviceman for 7 days at a time. My point was that many of the Mothers and Grandmothers of today's so called educated ladies (whom you all wish us to believe were vestal virgins when you married them) were more than likely associated in some way with earnings from the sex industry during the Vietnam conflict. We are not talking about a niche market we are talking about a massive change in the Thai's income and the countries overall prosperity. The majority of the wealth was accumulated in Bangkok by Bangkok families.

Why even bother to reply to my post if you cannot be bothered to read it in its entirety.

I married a nurse in 1971 (deceased) and am now married to an ex bar girl. The difference between the two - Jack Shit Gentlemen.

I cautiously believe I'm in agreement with your first-and-last mentioned overall point, and your overall message about universal hypocrisy is well taken.

However note that even back then the majority of the sex workers you mention were lower-class girls, most likely also from an upcountry peasant background. Given how stratified Thailand's economic class hierarchy is, I doubt if too many of those girls ended up marrying into the upper classes of Thai culture, which are largely still the only ones that get a decent education.

Now if you're talking about their families indirectly benefiting from the inflow of those dollars as landlords, recipients of backsheesh etc sure.

However, I think your opinion about the degree to which sex industry drove Thailand's development over the past fifty years is a bit exaggerated, even the much larger money spent on all the superset of all tourism industry dollars is a relatively small fraction of the total of direct investment from overseas in the more mainstream industries. Not to mention the overall growth of world trade through the globalization process that's affected all our countries, the sex trade is just a drop in the ocean IMO.

And BTW if your goal is for people to carefully read your entire posts, good luck with that. One tip - break your points up with some whitespace.

[pmem]

Here is Something to think about; The Thailand sex industry came of age during the Vietnam War employing thousands and thousands of women over a 15 year period.

You should read a bit about King Rama V, slavery in Thailand and the rights of men, to buy females as sex slaves.

Also you should think about, that foreigners are in statistics only about 10% of the 'visitors of prostitutes services in Thailand'.

The other 90% are the Thai males!

Also you should look in some rural areas, where the 'foreigner' is simple not available, as a customer, but still brothels are.

Like a friend of mine thinks, the 'foreigner' section of this business is the nicer part for all involved people.

The local part is a lot cheaper, and includes more pimps and sex mafia, as you probably can imagine!

A Thai man only marries a prostitute, to become her pimp!

Let me elaborate on my statement "coming of age" - Growing up and becoming far more affluent and prosperous.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Main difference between the two is that you don't have to feel guilty when you cheat on the ex bar girl; just increase her allowance and off you go.

Again with the over-generalizations.

IMO you only have to "feel guilty" - in fact it's only "cheating" - if you're not being open and honest, in which case you should indeed feel guilty for your dishonesty in either case.

It is not my experience that sex workers are more likely to agree to an open arrangement than those in other professions.

Nor that the other girls won't expect some sort of compensation for their willingness to agree, even if it's just a demonstration of a stronger commitment to their long-term security.

All this stuff depends a lot more on the individuals concerned than their choice of work.

Except in my experience the sex worker is more likely to resort to violence and threats when angry, so that's another factor to take into account.

Edited October 31, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[chiangmaikelly]

Its no big deal at all until you come on a forum whining how the bitch took everything you got.

How many posts like that are there here?

how long have u got?

I've been here since 2008 and have seen less than I can count on two hands. So start posting.

[brewsterbudgen]

Personally my point is to avoid any areas where there are any farang at all, only consider girls with zero level of English and as close to zero level of experience with men in general as possible.

This is really, really good advice. And it's what I've been trying to tell friends and acquaintances from the west seeking Thai girls. Sure, there are some Thai girls who speak English well and are honest and decent. But the percentages are much better among those who don't speak much English. And in much larger numbers. These guys who can't speak Thai have no idea what's really available out there. It's almost unfair. If you can speak Thai in Thailand, the world is your oyster.

What a BS with regards to English... the majority of younger (<30y) Thai women now speaks English as they learn it in school or learned it for their normal job either in restaurants, hotels, shopping centers etc., has nothing at all to do with the "hooking up with falang" and not being "honest and decent".

Stupid generalization from my point of view

Yes, a stupid post. There are plenty of women who speak English well for many reasons other than hanging around with farangs. As someone who coaches Thai students to pass IELTS/TOEFL, I can assure those whose only experience of English speaking Thais is through bars that this is not the case.

That said, I generally find many girls that do work in the bars, whether they can speak English or not, are also honest and decent.

[GreenSnapper]

I believe a definate maximum measured area covered with tattoos as the indication of a BG is needed. Perhaps the bidding starts at 9cm^2 ? (Yeah I know some savages still don't use SI units, google it).

The color also must matter. Scarlet is a dead giveaway, of course. In fact. aren't birthmarks just genetic tattoo's. I'm starting to get the idea behind the Coroner's Special porcelain skin.

But how then can you verify the lack of tramp stamps, as with a good girl you won't even be sleeping in the same room before married ? Oh the shame of it, finding a butterfly on the back in wedding night. Drives a man straight to his mia noi's, surely.

Very complex it is, this Asian culture, mmmmmm...

Yup......complex indeed.....here's my lady

Degree educated and working as a restaurant manager and ye gods!! ( well I suppose ye Buddha!! ) she has a tattoo on her left thigh !!!

Modern Thai women, just who do they think they are eh?

Sorry, Theblether, In 25 years of Thailand experience I've never come across a Thai girl with a tattoo on her leg like that, who at some time wasn't involved in the sex trade,although, to be fair I don't know if I've ever met this particular lady,so possibly she's the exception.

A Thai education Degree means nothing,unless it's from Chula or similar university,and then again some people don't

Rate those universities very high.

This is correct. That tattoo is not "westernized", but just lo-so. Listen to normal Thai women how they gossip about such girls.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This is correct. That tattoo is not "westernized", but just lo-so. Listen to normal Thai women how they gossip about such girls.

But the whole point is that such preconceptions do not accurately translate to reality.

Some people actually think that such indicators of "lo-so" BS actually imply that she is or has been a sex worker.

In the case of this particular girl there's no way for anyone but her to know the truth for sure - and that's exactly the point.

The next question - are you someone who prefers to assume the worst or the best in people?

Or even better someone who doesn't judge based on appearances?

Or like me, and doesn't think there's anything wrong with sex work anyway!

Edited October 31, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[kblaze]

I believe a definate maximum measured area covered with tattoos as the indication of a BG is needed. Perhaps the bidding starts at 9cm^2 ? (Yeah I know some savages still don't use SI units, google it).

The color also must matter. Scarlet is a dead giveaway, of course. In fact. aren't birthmarks just genetic tattoo's. I'm starting to get the idea behind the Coroner's Special porcelain skin.

But how then can you verify the lack of tramp stamps, as with a good girl you won't even be sleeping in the same room before married ? Oh the shame of it, finding a butterfly on the back in wedding night. Drives a man straight to his mia noi's, surely.

Very complex it is, this Asian culture, mmmmmm...

Yup......complex indeed.....here's my lady

Degree educated and working as a restaurant manager and ye gods!! ( well I suppose ye Buddha!! ) she has a tattoo on her left thigh !!!

Modern Thai women, just who do they think they are eh?

Sorry, Theblether, In 25 years of Thailand experience I've never come across a Thai girl with a tattoo on her leg like that, who at some time wasn't involved in the sex trade,although, to be fair I don't know if I've ever met this particular lady,so possibly she's the exception.

A Thai education Degree means nothing,unless it's from Chula or similar university,and then again some people don't

Rate those universities very high.

This is correct. That tattoo is not "westernized", but just lo-so. Listen to normal Thai women how they gossip about such girls.

No, that is a terrible thing to recommend anyone to do.

[meom]

Main difference between the two is that you don't have to feel guilty when you cheat on the ex bar girl; just increase her allowance and off you go.

Again with the over-generalizations.

IMO you only have to "feel guilty" - in fact it's only "cheating" - if you're not being open and honest, in which case you should indeed feel guilty for your dishonesty in either case.

It is not my experience that sex workers are more likely to agree to an open arrangement than those in other professions.

Nor that the other girls won't expect some sort of compensation for their willingness to agree, even if it's just a demonstration of a stronger commitment to their long-term security.

All this stuff depends a lot more on the individuals concerned than their choice of work.

Except in my experience the sex worker is more likely to resort to violence and threats when angry, so that's another factor to take into account.

Of course it’s an overgeneralization and there’s different ways of looking at it I guess.

You can be open and honest before hand and tell your partner that you like to play around which she can accept or not. Some relations work this way but not many though.

If you feel guilty about it you can also be open and honest after the fact in order to clear your mind.

In my experience the latter don’t really work though and you end up running for cover or make other amends which in the case of ex BG more often than not would be of a financial nature.

Ofcourse non of the TV membership ever cheats so it's all cosmetic.

Edited October 31, 2012 by meom

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Yes, a stupid post. There are plenty of women who speak English well for many reasons other than hanging around with farangs. As someone who coaches Thai students to pass IELTS/TOEFL, I can assure those whose only experience of English speaking Thais is through bars that this is not the case.

That said, I generally find many girls that do work in the bars, whether they can speak English or not, are also honest and decent.

You may have lost track of what this poster was calling a stupid post - he's actually trying to defend the statement "most TGs under 30" (that's across the whole population, rich and poor, urban and rural!) have good English.

As fellow IELTS teacher (both IDP and BC) I hope you realize your students are 99% of the time coming from a very tiny percentage of the population that can afford to send their children overseas.

If you take say the top 20% families out of the equation - probably down to well under 10K per month income per household - and then look at the group "females under 30" within that group, and divide that into two groups "have experience in the farang-targeting sex industry" vs "no have", I hope you'd agree that the overall level of English (while still very low, maybe level 2-3 on the Speaking portion of the IELTS test) would be much higher in the former group than the latter overall. And I'd bet even in that higher-performing group it still wouldn't be a majority.

Right?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You can be open and honest before hand and tell your partner that you like to play around which she can accept or not. Some relations work this way but not many though.

Well, every single one of mine over the last twenty five years has. If you're open and honest about this from the very start, then those that aren't willing to accept that are pre-filtered and don't waste your time. Like most of success in life, the key is knowing who you are and what you want from the get-go.

Problems in this area IMO come from unrealistic expectations and deceiving yourself.

Just depends on how much of a priority you give to honesty and integrity in relationships, as opposed to taking the easy route of going along with what other people say "should" be the "right" way.

[meom]

Like most of success in life, the key is knowing who you are and what you want from the get-go.

You must be living a very sheltered life then if you know from the get go who you are and what you want.

For me life is more like a work in progress meaning who I am and what I want is changing over time based on various positive and negative experiences.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You must be living a very sheltered life then if you know from the get go who you are and what you want.

For me life is more like a work in progress meaning who I am and what I want is changing over time based on various positive and negative experiences.

I didn't mean any predetermined mission in life overall, just before you embark on a project know what you want, be clear as to your goals, limits values etc and you greatly improve the chances of success.

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"

"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.

"I don’t much care where--" said Alice.

"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.

"--so long as I get SOMEWHERE," Alice added as an explanation.

"Oh, you’re sure to do that," said the Cat, "if you only walk long enough."

[Modem]

I believe a definate maximum measured area covered with tattoos as the indication of a BG is needed. Perhaps the bidding starts at 9cm^2 ? (Yeah I know some savages still don't use SI units, google it).

The color also must matter. Scarlet is a dead giveaway, of course. In fact. aren't birthmarks just genetic tattoo's. I'm starting to get the idea behind the Coroner's Special porcelain skin.

But how then can you verify the lack of tramp stamps, as with a good girl you won't even be sleeping in the same room before married ? Oh the shame of it, finding a butterfly on the back in wedding night. Drives a man straight to his mia noi's, surely.

Very complex it is, this Asian culture, mmmmmm...

Yup......complex indeed.....here's my lady

Degree educated and working as a restaurant manager and ye gods!! ( well I suppose ye Buddha!! ) she has a tattoo on her left thigh !!!

Modern Thai women, just who do they think they are eh?

Sorry, Theblether, In 25 years of Thailand experience I've never come across a Thai girl with a tattoo on her leg like that, who at some time wasn't involved in the sex trade,although, to be fair I don't know if I've ever met this particular lady,so possibly she's the exception.

A Thai education Degree means nothing,unless it's from Chula or similar university,and then again some people don't

Rate those universities very high.

This is correct. That tattoo is not "westernized", but just lo-so. Listen to normal Thai women how they gossip about such girls.

If I dated a Thai girl and she flashed a tattoo like that in public, I would consider it a very serious insult.

The girl in the photo is allowing herself to be perceived as a hooker. She know this. She must also know that her farang boyfriend will be perceived negatively.

This is abusive. The girl has psychological problems.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Modem

[brewsterbudgen]

Yes, a stupid post. There are plenty of women who speak English well for many reasons other than hanging around with farangs. As someone who coaches Thai students to pass IELTS/TOEFL, I can assure those whose only experience of English speaking Thais is through bars that this is not the case.

That said, I generally find many girls that do work in the bars, whether they can speak English or not, are also honest and decent.

You may have lost track of what this poster was calling a stupid post - he's actually trying to defend the statement "most TGs under 30" (that's across the whole population, rich and poor, urban and rural!) have good English.

As fellow IELTS teacher (both IDP and BC) I hope you realize your students are 99% of the time coming from a very tiny percentage of the population that can afford to send their children overseas.

If you take say the top 20% families out of the equation - probably down to well under 10K per month income per household - and then look at the group "females under 30" within that group, and divide that into two groups "have experience in the farang-targeting sex industry" vs "no have", I hope you'd agree that the overall level of English (while still very low, maybe level 2-3 on the Speaking portion of the IELTS test) would be much higher in the former group than the latter overall. And I'd bet even in that higher-performing group it still wouldn't be a majority.

Right?

Yes you're right. I guess I just spend far too much of my time with either elite IELTS students or bargirls! I'll get my most recent bar-squeeze to do an IELTS Part 2 Speaking (can you suggest a topic?) and let you know her score!