Still No Sign Of Bt16Bn As Hong Kong, Singapore Deny Freezing Funds

[webfact]

Still no sign of Bt16 bn as HK, S'pore deny freezing funds

Piyanut Tamnukasetchai

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Anti-money laundering agencies in Hong Kong and Singapore have denied freezing the Bt16 billion that was allegedly transferred from Thailand, Anti-Money Laundering Office secretary-general Sihanart Prayoonrat said yesterday, adding that this money was probably still in the Kingdom in the form of cash.

Earlier this month, AMLO and relevant agencies were asked to find out if the Hong Kong anti-graft agency had frozen Bt16 billion that an anti-corruption group claimed had been transferred by corrupt politicians via the underground banking system, known locally as "poay guan".

In the press conference, Sihanart said Hong Kong topped the list of destinations for illegal money transfers from Thailand both in terms of frequency and value.

It is believed that illegal transfers via "poay guan" gangs in Asia usually involve Singapore, Malaysia, Laos, Myanmar and Australia.

Between 2008 and 2012, AMLO discovered that there were 14,470 "poay guan" transactions to and from Thailand. During that time, about Bt193 million is said to have arrived in the Kingdom and about Bt345 million is said to have left the country. The money is believed to have come from European cities such as Amsterdam, South European nations like Turkey, from the Middle East like Dubai, South Asia like India as well as China, Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong, he said.

However, Sihanart said it was getting difficult to make these illegal money transfers because the laws were getting quite strict. Even moving cash from casinos in Macau was tough, he said.

"If there is a lot of illegal money, it will most probably be kept in the form of cash rather than gold because cash is more liquid. Also, gold shops need to report all suspicious transactions to AMLO," Sihanart said.

"Poay guan" is a financial system used by both legal and illegal businesses to avoid auditing. It is allegedly popular among tourism agencies, black market currency exchange, gold shops and unregistered firms. AMLO working on new rules to cover and regulate these businesses, he said.

Under the "poay guan" system, a middleman is given the cash and the person at the other end can claim this money in exchange for a ticket, he explained.

"During the time of our grandmothers, middlemen carried money for their family in China and charged 5 to 7 per cent in fees. However, 'poay guan' is not popular anymore because there are other quicker and less detectable ways of making money transfers nowadays," Sihanart said.

However, it is believed that this system is still used by migrant workers.

There are some 10 "poay guan" gangs in Thailand, with many working out of Yaowarat and Saphan Khwai areas. These gangs usually move the money out of the country as soon as they get it and usually pick up cash delivered by gambling businesses in neighbouring nations in Tak, Chiang Mai, Nakhon Phanom or Nong Khai, he said.

Sihanart added that it would be difficult to find out if there were corrupt politicians involved in this case because they must have used nominees to launder the money on their behalf.

-- The Nation 2012-10-27

[Thai at Heart]

This article has so many factual differences from the original story from a week or so ago.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

After Thailand signs the new Anti-Money Launderings law, International Anti-Money Launderings Agencies will have their hands full of the Thai politicians laundry cases.

[asiawatcher]

A centuries old 'tradition' is not going to stop under any circumstances but carrying money internationally is very easy even for the average traveller. Being tech-savvy with a computer and a few badges will not help either. Banks are a party to laundering as well and have no idea they are. There are ways which of course cannot be mentioned here, where one can legally deposit funds and withdraw internationally and the bank makes the commission similar to the 6% as mentioned the gangs charge. You just have to know how and you can bet there are a few politicians here and a crim in Dubai who already know that.

[rubl]

Anti-money laundering agencies in Hong Kong and Singapore have denied freezing the Bt16 billion that was allegedly transferred from Thailand, Anti-Money Laundering Office secretary-general Sihanart Prayoonrat said yesterday, adding that this money was probably still in the Kingdom in the form of cash.

Is that a positive denial ?

[OzMick]

Both deny freezing funds. Neither deny that transfers are taking place. Most re-assuring.

[isaanpaul]

How big has a room to be,to store 16 billion baht cash?

Any answers please,I have some space left.

Isaanpaul

[slapout]

Give a percentage of the dirty money transfers found, to the rat. Find the potential rat/s with the knowledge and one of two things will occurr.

Thailand can bring billions back into the countries coffers

Someone will get rid of the rat/s and the avenues of transfer are decreased.

Either way, you creat more distrust in the corrupt world of Thai government

[KhunMoo]

How big has a room to be,to store 16 billion baht cash?

Any answers please,I have some space left.

Isaanpaul

Bht 16bn, is 24m3'ish....

[HUAHIN62]

Please note the money (B345 mil or bn? some reports state bn) left Thailand since 2008. If my memory serves me right that is the time when the Dems was in power. Also interesting that during their time in power one didn't hear anything about this money leaving the country. Maybe they were in power but not in control or maybe they knew and kept quiet or maybe some dirty ex MP's.

[rubl]

Please note the money (B345 mil or bn? some reports state bn) left Thailand since 2008. If my memory serves me right that is the time when the Dems was in power. Also interesting that during their time in power one didn't hear anything about this money leaving the country. Maybe they were in power but not in control or maybe they knew and kept quiet or maybe some dirty ex MP's.

Corruption and related money flow has always been a problem in Thailand. It just seems that recently there has been a tremendous escalation which might be related to the enormous projects this government is undertaking, like 120bn ad-hoc flood recovery, 350bn long term flood prevention, 400bn price pledging. Compared with that the 2008-2012 193mn in, 345mn out seems peanuts.

The AMLO site seems to have more data, but in Thai, their English website version seems an empty framework only ( http://www.amlo.go.th/ )

[kimamey]

How big has a room to be,to store 16 billion baht cash?

Any answers please,I have some space left.

Isaanpaul

Bht 16bn, is 24m3'ish....

Maybe time to move that rice out then?

[GeorgeO]

Please note the money (B345 mil or bn? some reports state bn) left Thailand since 2008. If my memory serves me right that is the time when the Dems was in power. Also interesting that during their time in power one didn't hear anything about this money leaving the country. Maybe they were in power but not in control or maybe they knew and kept quiet or maybe some dirty ex MP's.

I would suggest that it is irrelevant who happens to be in power at the time. What this case is about is all sorts of businesses engaging in money laundering; their activities are not brought to a halt by a change of government.

[FOODLOVER]

Look under the cushions.

[Buchholz]

Please note the money (B345 mil or bn? some reports state bn) left Thailand since 2008. If my memory serves me right that is the time when the Dems was in power. Also interesting that during their time in power one didn't hear anything about this money leaving the country.

345 Billion Baht smuggled out of the country since 2008, indeed... it is a lengthy list beginning with

Samak Sundaravej

25th Prime Minister of Thailand

In office

29 January 2008 – 9 September 2008

and then,

Somchai Wongsawat

26th Prime Minister of Thailand

In office

18 September 2008 – 2 December 2008

and so forth,

.

[GentlemanJim]

Instead of the Chief of Police assigning 13 senior officers to discover if Democrats have actually said slanderous things about a fugitive criminal in Dubai, how about those 13 are reassigned to discover what has happened to 16 Billion baht? Seems a much better use of tax payers money and valuable Police resources.

[smutcakes]

Instead of the Chief of Police assigning 13 senior officers to discover if Democrats have actually said slanderous things about a fugitive criminal in Dubai, how about those 13 are reassigned to discover what has happened to 16 Billion baht? Seems a much better use of tax payers money and valuable Police resources.

Good idea, because 13 police officers will have the necessary knowledge and experience to track complicated financial dealings.

[rubl]

Instead of the Chief of Police assigning 13 senior officers to discover if Democrats have actually said slanderous things about a fugitive criminal in Dubai, how about those 13 are reassigned to discover what has happened to 16 Billion baht? Seems a much better use of tax payers money and valuable Police resources.

Good idea, because 13 police officers will have the necessary knowledge and experience to track complicated financial dealings.

Far be it from me to even vaguely suggest that the officer put on the case of the allegedly slandered criminal fugitive, the Pol Maj-General Anuchai Lekbamrung has any extensive knowledge of financing, still I wonder what type of car his chauffeur drives him around in

[smutcakes]

Instead of the Chief of Police assigning 13 senior officers to discover if Democrats have actually said slanderous things about a fugitive criminal in Dubai, how about those 13 are reassigned to discover what has happened to 16 Billion baht? Seems a much better use of tax payers money and valuable Police resources.

Good idea, because 13 police officers will have the necessary knowledge and experience to track complicated financial dealings.

Far be it from me to even vaguely suggest that the officer put on the case of the allegedly slandered criminal fugitive, the Pol Maj-General Anuchai Lekbamrung has any extensive knowledge of financing, still I wonder what type of car his chauffeur drives him around in

I have no idea what you are referring to or talking about, or trying to imply. (if anything)

[Replogle]

Is there a reason why this is even remotely newsworthy? What are we talkin' about here, $500 million dollars transferred out? Peanuts, when compared to the grand scheme of things. A big whoop-dee-do over nothing.

Underground banking will get aplenty more popular if/when stricter currency controls come into play. What's the point of using an inhibited currency? Not only that, who wouldn't want to recast some of that tong tang into weightlifting equipment, or even into an old front bumper for a '91 Hilux. "Twenty years I've owned that truck and it's still blowing cold!"

Edited October 30, 2012 by Replogle

[Buchholz]

Is there a reason why this is even remotely newsworthy? What are we talkin' about here, $500 million dollars transferred out? Peanuts, when compared to the grand scheme of things. A big whoop-dee-do over nothing.

The money laundering has been expanded to a somewhat larger amount..

345 Billion Baht smuggled out of the country since 2008, indeed... it is a lengthy list beginning with

Samak Sundaravej

25th Prime Minister of Thailand

In office

29 January 2008 – 9 September 2008

and then,

Somchai Wongsawat

26th Prime Minister of Thailand

In office

18 September 2008 – 2 December 2008

and so forth,

Edited October 30, 2012 by Buchholz

[smutcakes]

Is there a reason why this is even remotely newsworthy? What are we talkin' about here, $500 million dollars transferred out? Peanuts, when compared to the grand scheme of things. A big whoop-dee-do over nothing.

The money laundering has been expanded to a somewhat larger amount..

345 Billion Baht smuggled out of the country since 2008, indeed... it is a lengthy list beginning with

Samak Sundaravej

25th Prime Minister of Thailand

In office

29 January 2008 – 9 September 2008

and then,

Somchai Wongsawat

26th Prime Minister of Thailand

In office

18 September 2008 – 2 December 2008

and so forth,

Where is the 345 billion baht figure coming from?

[Buchholz]

Is there a reason why this is even remotely newsworthy? What are we talkin' about here, $500 million dollars transferred out? Peanuts, when compared to the grand scheme of things. A big whoop-dee-do over nothing.

The money laundering has been expanded to a somewhat larger amount..

345 Billion Baht smuggled out of the country since 2008, indeed... it is a lengthy list beginning with

Samak Sundaravej

25th Prime Minister of Thailand

In office

29 January 2008 – 9 September 2008

and then,

Somchai Wongsawat

26th Prime Minister of Thailand

In office

18 September 2008 – 2 December 2008

and so forth,

Where is the 345 billion baht figure coming from?

345 Billion Baht is the amount that Thailand's Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO) found was smuggled out in illegal money transfers in an article from the other paper three days ago.

.

[smutcakes]

Oh, so you did not read the article on the other paper where it clearly states million baht, the same as the nation paper and every other online article. Nice to see you are carrying on your tradition of not letting facts get in the way of a good lie.

[Buchholz]

Oh, so you did not read the article on the other paper where it clearly states million baht, the same as the nation paper and every other online article. Nice to see you are carrying on your tradition of not letting facts get in the way of a good lie.

The article I'm reading in front of me says Billion...

It's repeated in four other websites which have reprinted the Bangkok Post's now two articles stating Billion. With a "B". Anyone wishing to read the link, it's available by PM. Otherwise, it's simple enough to find it on your own with a simple google of spelling out the amount involved.

Nice to see your flaming continue in another ID.

.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Buchholz

[ballpoint]

Oh, so you did not read the article on the other paper where it clearly states million baht, the same as the nation paper and every other online article. Nice to see you are carrying on your tradition of not letting facts get in the way of a good lie.

Actually, the other paper did say over 345 billion in its report on the 27th. Can't link to it because of the rules, but google "thailand amlo 345 billion"

[smutcakes]

Oh, so you did not read the article on the other paper where it clearly states million baht, the same as the nation paper and every other online article. Nice to see you are carrying on your tradition of not letting facts get in the way of a good lie.

The article I'm reading in front of me says Billion...

It's repeated in four other websites which have reprinted the Bangkok Post's now two articles stating Billion. With a "B". Anyone wishing to read the link, it's available by PM. Otherwise, it's simple enough to find it on your own with a simple google of spelling out the amount involved.

Nice to see your flaming continue in another ID.

.

I will stand corrected if wrong, but if you read further than the headline, it quite clearly says million. Please can you PM me the link and I will happily concede I am wrong. All articles i have read have said million, the only place it mentions billion is in the headline of the other paper, and even in the actual report on that paper it says million,

[whybother]

With 345 million baht in and 193 million baht out in 14,470 transactions, makes it an average of a bit over 37,000 baht ($1200) per transaction.

I think it should be Billion.

[smutcakes]

Oh, so you did not read the article on the other paper where it clearly states million baht, the same as the nation paper and every other online article. Nice to see you are carrying on your tradition of not letting facts get in the way of a good lie.

Actually, the other paper did say over 345 billion in its report on the 27th. Can't link to it because of the rules, but google "thailand amlo 345 billion"

If it is billion, then surely it would be more of a news story, if my vague exchange calculation is correct then that is over 11 billion dollars?

[whybother]

Oh, so you did not read the article on the other paper where it clearly states million baht, the same as the nation paper and every other online article. Nice to see you are carrying on your tradition of not letting facts get in the way of a good lie.

Actually, the other paper did say over 345 billion in its report on the 27th. Can't link to it because of the rules, but google "thailand amlo 345 billion"

If it is billion, then surely it would be more of a news story, if my vague exchange calculation is correct then that is over 11 billion dollars?

Over 14000 transactions (both ways) ... Why would anyone bother illegally transferring $1000 (in many cases, probably much less)?