Accepting The Farang Status, And The Implications

[Tim207]

That is exactly my point, you would not do that.

But thais would do that, even if you have been with your partner for 10 years, your thai partner would still always think about the fact that you are farang. Meaning, you are different from her and the rest of the thai family.

Once again, if you had a thai wife, and you lived in a western country, the fact that she was dark skinned, would probably be less and less important (if it even was something of importance in the first place), the more the years would pass by.

Not the case for thais...

I find it odd that you extrapolate your experience to include all Thais. My ex wife's sister has been referring to me as her brother with no mention of my being a farang for years. It is actually pretty funny when I walk up and she introduces me to someone that had no idea that the brother she talks about is a farang. Since I have a Thai sounding name it doesn't occur to anyone and she doesn't bother to mention it.

[Naam]

ALL of the first gen Thais back home in California still refer to the caucasians around them as farang. And point out others based on their visual ethnicity. Never gonna change. And don't like to admit...but when in TL, you will always be a farang and not local. Simply put, the Thai paridym is not a blend of multi-ethnicity. Thai si Thai.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect App

At Sattahip Naval base they only let Thais in. I was driving with a car full of people from 6 different countries outside of Thailand and the Thai guards let everyone in except one guy from Cuba. They can't tell the difference. Lao, Khmer, Filipino, Korean, Japanese and Chinese. They all look the same to the guards at Sattahip.

Cuba is on a Thai goverment "hot" list as is Peru, don't ask me why.

don't know what you mean by "hotlist" but we had a visitor from Peru last week who got a 90 day visa on arrival. there was a delay because the immigration officer sent her to the health desk where they asked the lady for yellow fever vaccination. only when she proved that she is a resident of Germany she was allowed to enter Thailand.

[bermondburi]

Is this really different to how in the UK ( for example ) you see someone and say , " yeah the black buy over there " or " the fit Asian bird " or whoever . Then you meet the guy and find out his name etc and start buying your DVDs off of the Asian woman and then use her name.

[bermondburi]

I think the born again Thais,should ask themselves "Would you allow a Thai to call you a Farang in your own Country" ? Which I have heard many times in the UK.

Seeing how my ethnicity doesn't change as soon as I get on a plane then why not ?

[bermondburi]

I think the born again Thais,should ask themselves "Would you allow a Thai to call you a Farang in your own Country" ? Which I have heard many times in the UK.

I really don't get it, sure why not, I call them Thais or Asians here or there, doesn't matter if we're on Mars.

You missed the point,in your own Country,whether it's England or America, or Australia, you are entitled to be called English,Australian, or American.

Thais or Asians is perfectly acceptable,that is their Ethnicity!

England is so full of whiteys from all over the place , how can they tell you are English just by looking at you ?

[bermondburi]

I really don't get it, sure why not, I call them Thais or Asians here or there, doesn't matter if we're on Mars.

So for example, if you had a thai wife, and you were going to dinner with your family and your wife, and you were talking to a friend, you would say "I am going to dinner with my family and my wife, she is dark skinned"?

That is exactly what a thai would do, if you went with your thai wife and her family, and a family member would talk to another friend. She would say, "we are going to dinner, with the family and Lek and her husband, he is farang".

Not the same at all . All a farang is , is a westerner , the majority of who ( on thai shores ) have white skin . The point of ferang is that it tells you where someone comes from ( more or less ) . It doesn't refer to skin colour . An equivalent would be if you had said that your wife was Asian .

Thais will call black UK or USA people ferang so it's not about skin colour . More about point of origin.

[bermondburi]

I think the born again Thais,should ask themselves "Would you allow a Thai to call you a Farang in your own Country" ? Which I have heard many times in the UK.

When I was last in the UK, I was shopping by myself in a large shop, forget the name but great for cheap clothes, sunglasses etc.There was a Thai woman walking around whilst talking on the phone. I over heard her saying that she was " glua farang,". She got the shock of her life when I told her there was no need, there was nothing to be afraid of. I used the pronoun "mun" that she had used, walking around this very large dept store speaking at the top of her voice. She almost ran away from me.

Think about it - Thais say ,talking about animals for example,

dogs, 'mun' .......

farang, 'mun'....... "mun' means they, BTW

Thais say

Khon Yeepoon, 'khao'........ 'khao' maens they BTW

Khon Jeen (Chinese) , 'khao'..........

Kaek, 'khao' ........

All other races/nationalities get 'khao' which is the proper pronoun for people.

Oh, I forgot, black people get 'mun' as well.

If you allow Thais to call you farang or worse call yourself farang you are condoning rascism.

If you don't believe me, go ask your girlfriend or wife the pronoun they use for different races.

Actually 'man' is more like it . a bit of a low class pronoun for people . Not everyone would do that , and if they did I don't think they would racially separate people . Any guess what , Thais even use 'man' for other Thai people so that kind of blows your argument out of the water.

[bermondburi]

That is exactly my point, you would not do that.

But thais would do that, even if you have been with your partner for 10 years, your thai partner would still always think about the fact that you are farang. Meaning, you are different from her and the rest of the thai family.

Once again, if you had a thai wife, and you lived in a western country, the fact that she was dark skinned, would probably be less and less important (if it even was something of importance in the first place), the more the years would pass by.

Not the case for thais...

I find it odd that you extrapolate your experience to include all Thais. My ex wife's sister has been referring to me as her brother with no mention of my being a farang for years. It is actually pretty funny when I walk up and she introduces me to someone that had no idea that the brother she talks about is a farang. Since I have a Thai sounding name it doesn't occur to anyone and she doesn't bother to mention it.

I have a similar thing in that if you change my name just slightly it is a Thai name . can be quite funny sometimes.

[NeverSure]

I think the born again Thais,should ask themselves "Would you allow a Thai to call you a Farang in your own Country" ? Which I have heard many times in the UK.

I really don't get it, sure why not, I call them Thais or Asians here or there, doesn't matter if we're on Mars.

You missed the point,in your own Country,whether it's England or America, or Australia, you are entitled to be called English,Australian, or American.

Thais or Asians is perfectly acceptable,that is their Ethnicity!

England is so full of whiteys from all over the place , how can they tell you are English just by looking at you ?

Because everyone who isn't a Brit is Hansum Ma'?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Not the same at all . All a farang is , is a westerner , the majority of who ( on thai shores ) have white skin . The point of ferang is that it tells you where someone comes from ( more or less ) . It doesn't refer to skin colour . An equivalent would be if you had said that your wife was Asian .

Thais will call black UK or USA people ferang so it's not about skin colour . More about point of origin.

Sorry but I'm quite sure you're wrong, the term has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with Thai perceptions of race. The three broad categories are white "farang", black "dahm" and near-middle-eastern, arabic/indian/iranian etc - "khaek" while within Asia they tend to be more familiar or interested in distinguishing by actual country of origin.

The less educated/worldly ones get confused if you try to tell them that black Americans for example are just as much Americans as the white ones, but they'll continue to see that as "kon dahm", never farang.

A white-complexioned Indian or Iranian may well be called a farang at first, and a dark-complexioned farang, say from southern Europe may well be called "khaek", until corrected in which case they'll refer to them as farang to their face but usually just to be polite, in their heart they'll still feel 'he's not really a farang is he' based on the skin color.

The more educated worldly ones, (that say know more international geography than the average American) will also learn what we foreigners consider acceptable and not in conversation and modify their speech with us accordingly, just as an educated Thai will claim not to believe in ghosts once they learn that most of us will think less of him for that belief.

None of which changes how they think feel and speak amongst themselves, and although I'm not saying it's right I realize it's none of my business.

[bermondburi]

I've heard Thais call black Americans ferang many times . Not everyone does the same thing .

Let's face it , most foreigners visiting Thailand from the West are white . If a non-white foreigner from those same western countries is in Thailand then they will be called ferang at some point as well as other things .

[bermondburi]

I'm also pretty sure that most Thai people's perception of where ferang come from is the same . i.e. US /Europe / NZ / Australia / White SA . So that does tell you where people come from.

Rightly or wrongly that is what Thais seem to believe.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'm also pretty sure that most Thai people's perception of where ferang come from is the same . i.e. US /Europe / NZ / Australia / White SA . So that does tell you where people come from.

Rightly or wrongly that is what Thais seem to believe.

I don't know where you're getting your data, maybe you just mix with a different socio-economic class, but most Thais I meet have no idea about any international geography, couldn't find their own country on a globe, have no idea that France and Italy or NZ or Australia are separate countries and couldn't care less.

Probably about the same as the average American, and that's saying a lot.

[Jingthing]

...

Probably about the same as the average American, and that's saying a lot.

Hmm.

I guess most of the Americans I have known in my life must be some kind of rarefied elite then ...

OMG, they even have passports!

[bermondburi]

I'm also pretty sure that most Thai people's perception of where ferang come from is the same . i.e. US /Europe / NZ / Australia / White SA . So that does tell you where people come from.

Rightly or wrongly that is what Thais seem to believe.

I don't know where you're getting your data, maybe you just mix with a different socio-economic class, but most Thais I meet have no idea about any international geography, couldn't find their own country on a globe, have no idea that France and Italy or NZ or Australia are separate countries and couldn't care less.

Probably about the same as the average American, and that's saying a lot.

Exactly , and that is why we are ferang .

[bermondburi]

I do think that Thais do have a little bit of an idea that ferang come from a place called Europe or USA . They do watch TV and there is this thing called the internet these days .

[bermondburi]

And if you asked your average person in the West to tell the difference between a Thai / Cambo / Laos / Viet etc they wouldn't have a clue either .

Apples and oranges.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

@bermondburi, not disagreeing with any of your recent posts, just the bit about the meaning of the term "farang" not being related to skin color.

My point is that Thais often confuse the issues of nationality and ethnicity, not realizing for example that the current populations of NZ, Australia, Canada and America are nearly 100% recent immigrants and composed of all "races", in many areas whites being in the minority.

Hmm.

I guess most of the Americans I have known in my life must be some kind of rarefied elite then ...

OMG, they even have passports!

Which of course most don't, it's actually a very small number if you take out the ones that have one only as required to serve in the military. Recent article here

A bit tongue in cheek I admit, but how many truly average Americans - ones that have never left the country nor have any interest in doing so - have you actually spoken with? Of course any that actually do travel are indeed in a pretty small top "elite", and even out of those, probably a pretty high percentage don't know the difference between Austria and Australia.

Just a bit of googling turns up a fair bit - here's one.

[Neeranam]

I think the born again Thais,should ask themselves "Would you allow a Thai to call you a Farang in your own Country" ? Which I have heard many times in the UK.

When I was last in the UK, I was shopping by myself in a large shop, forget the name but great for cheap clothes, sunglasses etc.There was a Thai woman walking around whilst talking on the phone. I over heard her saying that she was " glua farang,". She got the shock of her life when I told her there was no need, there was nothing to be afraid of. I used the pronoun "mun" that she had used, walking around this very large dept store speaking at the top of her voice. She almost ran away from me.

Think about it - Thais say ,talking about animals for example,

dogs, 'mun' .......

farang, 'mun'....... "mun' means they, BTW

Thais say

Khon Yeepoon, 'khao'........ 'khao' maens they BTW

Khon Jeen (Chinese) , 'khao'..........

Kaek, 'khao' ........

All other races/nationalities get 'khao' which is the proper pronoun for people.

Oh, I forgot, black people get 'mun' as well.

If you allow Thais to call you farang or worse call yourself farang you are condoning rascism.

If you don't believe me, go ask your girlfriend or wife the pronoun they use for different races.

Actually 'man' is more like it . a bit of a low class pronoun for people . Not everyone would do that , and if they did I don't think they would racially separate people . Any guess what , Thais even use 'man' for other Thai people so that kind of blows your argument out of the water.

Actually I know what mun is. I've heard a hi-so friend who was educated abroad say 'farang mun.....' Nothing to do with class.

And guess what,Thais may call ONLY very close friends with this pronoun.

I'm not arguing, just stating facts.

[bermondburi]

you're just contradicting yourself . One minute it was for ferangs and dogs . Now it's for close friends . What is your point exactly ?

[mania]

Cant say I blame the Thai's for the one size fits all term Falang.

It is just for foreigners who are not Asian

I myself can readily tell Japanese from Chinese & Koreans so could

term/group them accurately

But the rest? No way sorry. Even if I hear them speak many times I do not know the difference based on

accent. So cant say I blame the Thais for not calling us Khon Angrit, Khon Amerigan, Khon Farangseet, Khon Yeeraman etc. etc.

Actually I am not called farang by family friends etc. So maybe the OP is talking about something else.

Lastly even if I was called farang by folks I do not know I would not care.

I don't need no stinkin country attached to define me :D

[hookedondhamma]

...

Probably about the same as the average American, and that's saying a lot.

Hmm.

I guess most of the Americans I have known in my life must be some kind of rarefied elite then ...

OMG, they even have passports!

Comments like this make me lol.

Some people will never get it, JT. Let the haters hate, otherwise they might have an aneurism and die.

Edited November 6, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Some people will never get it, JT. Let the haters hate, otherwise they might have an aneurism and die.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but if you think I'm a "hater" please point out how so, as that's certainly not my intention.

I feel it's important as a proud American, to only be proud of those aspects where my country's rightfully earned respect, but to be realistic about those where we fail to live up to our own expectations.

I'm pretty sure I'm right in stating that geographic literacy is one of the latter aspects.

Or do you believe in "my country right or wrong" style patriotism?

[Neeranam]

you're just contradicting yourself . One minute it was for ferangs and dogs . Now it's for close friends . What is your point exactly ?

No I'm not - you said that Thais call each other 'man' - I was just telling you that they only use this pronoun with very close friends - similar to me calling my close friend a f***** c***. Kinda like a joke.

Try learning Thai and you'll find out.

[bermondburi]

you're just contradicting yourself . One minute it was for ferangs and dogs . Now it's for close friends . What is your point exactly ?

No I'm not - you said that Thais call each other 'man' - I was just telling you that they only use this pronoun with very close friends - similar to me calling my close friend a f***** c***. Kinda like a joke.

Try learning Thai and you'll find out.

You sure you're not getting 'man' and 'mung' not ' mixed ' up . 'man' isn't really that much of an insult . Like I said before it just means it .

Now you're saying that they call all ferang f******* c***** kind of like a joke .

You're good for a laugh though !

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Now you're saying that they call all ferang f******* c***** kind of like a joke .

Actually you're the one putting words in people's mouth.

Maybe better to take this over to Thai Language, the whole pronoun thing deserves its own thread AFAIC the original topic was about we honkies using the word "farang" while speaking English.

[bermondburi]

alright ref.

[bermondburi]

bored at work , got to pass the time somehow .

[ayayay]

I find it odd that you extrapolate your experience to include all Thais.

Of course there will be exceptions every now and then, but I would say 99,8% of all Thais will do it.

Edited November 6, 2012 by ayayay

[ayayay]

Is this really different to how in the UK ( for example ) you see someone and say , " yeah the black buy over there " or " the fit Asian bird " or whoever . Then you meet the guy and find out his name etc and start buying your DVDs off of the Asian woman and then use her name.

This is mentioned and answered several times through the whole thread, read it.