Obama Likely To Win Another Presidential Term: Gallup Poll

[Jingthing]

He will be haunted for the rest of his life by his multitude of failure's such as not closing Guantanamo, an order he signed on his first day as President and couldn't follow through on......how embarrassing...........and he won't be at to sleep at night as the Ghosts of the innocents killed by drones will spiral around him.

Main reason not to support Obama.

Not sure what you are on about. Do you think Romney will close Guatmo or end the drone program?

[Jingthing]

Romneycare was a great accomplishment of Romney. Too bad he did a 180 degree on his former suggestion that it be federalized. Romney is practical alright. So practical that having core values isn't necessary for him.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[theblether]

A newly elected second term president is not a lame duck!

A lame duck is an elected official who is approaching the end of his or her tenure,

and especially an official whose successor has already been elected.

wiki

Quack. Quack.

Obama will most likely set a record for being the earliest lame duck President in history......if he thinks it's tough now, just wait until the mid term elections, after that he's finished.......and I think you know it JT.

[theblether]

Romneycare was a great accomplishment of Romney. Too bad he did a 180 degree on his former suggestion that it be federalized.

What works for a State isn't always suitable for the Nation......this is the reason why you have State legislatures in the US. It's to allow people to do what's right for them in their own locale.

The figures involved on a national level are terrifying.......

Incidentally......I am avowedly and unashamedly pro-American, I had the privilege of working alongside the US forces for 5 years and it was a life enriching experience for me. I do worry though about your country........my biggest single worry is the debt level. The forecast growth in debt is quite simply terrifying for everyone that looks to the US for leadership. Terrifying.

[Jingthing]

A newly elected second term president is not a lame duck!

A lame duck is an elected official who is approaching the end of his or her tenure,

and especially an official whose successor has already been elected.

wiki

Quack. Quack.

Obama will most likely set a record for being the earliest lame duck President in history......if he thinks it's tough now, just wait until the mid term elections, after that he's finished.......and I think you know it JT.

ANY president in the last two years of his second term is less relevant. It has nothing to do with Obama. And you have no idea about the midterms. My prediction is with the recovery that has already started it will be well developed by the midterms and the democrats will do very well in them.

[Jingthing]

Romneycare was a great accomplishment of Romney. Too bad he did a 180 degree on his former suggestion that it be federalized.

What works for a State isn't always suitable for the Nation......this is the reason why you have State legislatures in the US. It's to allow people to do what's right for them in their own locale.

The figures involved on a national level are terrifying.......

Incidentally......I am avowedly and unashamedly pro-American, I had the privilege of working alongside the US forces for 5 years and it was a life enriching experience for me. I do worry though about your country........my biggest single worry is the debt level. The forecast growth in debt is quite simply terrifying for everyone that looks to the US for leadership. Terrifying.

I am pro American too. I want for Americans what Europeans have for Europeans. Health care access for ALL citizens. Again, Romney was totally FOR federalization of Romneycare UNTIL Obama was elected and made the idea a democratic program. It's all politics for him and his radical right wing party, and people's lives are at stake.

BTW, the U.S. states have NOT addressed the problem! A few perhaps including Massachusetts, yes, but that's not good enough and they've had decades to do that if that was really going to ever happen or work. It didn't happen. How many decades do Americans have to wait?!? Federalization was the ONLY option. Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of Americans are dead prematurely WAITING for this to be fixed?

In Scotland, you have national health, yes? If so, how can you begin to understand the health care access situation faced by Americans, which has been a national disgrace?

OK, I see that you do:

http://www.nhsnss.org/

You know, this makes me wonder, how would you feel if I suggested all Scots don't deserve access to basic health care, and it's OK for a massive percentage of Scots to have no such access.

I reckon Scots probably take that for granted.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[GiHadOrange]

He will be haunted for the rest of his life by his multitude of failure's such as not closing Guantanamo, an order he signed on his first day as President and couldn't follow through on......how embarrassing...........and he won't be at to sleep at night as the Ghosts of the innocents killed by drones will spiral around him.

Main reason not to support Obama.

Not sure what you are on about. Do you think Romney will close Guatmo or end the drone program?

I am not talking about Romney. I am talking about Obama and I don't like him.

[Jingthing]

He will be haunted for the rest of his life by his multitude of failure's such as not closing Guantanamo, an order he signed on his first day as President and couldn't follow through on......how embarrassing...........and he won't be at to sleep at night as the Ghosts of the innocents killed by drones will spiral around him.

Main reason not to support Obama.

Not sure what you are on about. Do you think Romney will close Guatmo or end the drone program?

I am not talking about Romney. I am talking about Obama and I don't like him.

In this election, we get one or the other.

[theblether]

Romneycare was a great accomplishment of Romney. Too bad he did a 180 degree on his former suggestion that it be federalized.

What works for a State isn't always suitable for the Nation......this is the reason why you have State legislatures in the US. It's to allow people to do what's right for them in their own locale.

The figures involved on a national level are terrifying.......

Incidentally......I am avowedly and unashamedly pro-American, I had the privilege of working alongside the US forces for 5 years and it was a life enriching experience for me. I do worry though about your country........my biggest single worry is the debt level. The forecast growth in debt is quite simply terrifying for everyone that looks to the US for leadership. Terrifying.

I am pro American too. I want for Americans what Europeans have for Europeans. Health care access for ALL citizens. Again, Romney was totally FOR federalization of Romneycare UNTIL Obama was elected and made the idea a democratic program. It's all politics for him and his radical right wing party, and people's lives are at stake.

BTW, the U.S. states have NOT solved the problem! One or two, yes, but that's not good enough and they've had decades to do that if that was really going to work. It didn't work. Federalization was the ONLY option. Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of Americans are dead prematurely WAITING for this to be fixed?

In Scotland, you have national health, yes? If so, how can you begin to understand the health care access situation faced by Americans, which has been a national disgrace?

OK, I see that you do:

http://www.nhsnss.org/

You know, this makes me wonder, how would you feel if I suggested all Scots don't deserve access to basic health care, and it's OK for a massive percentage of Scots to have no such access.

I reckon Scots probably take that for granted.

I'm fully aware of all your points JT and I accept them all in principle, the problem is that you are going to re-run the same problems that we had with our National Health System and your going to end up with the same problems, only in your case the costs are going to be astronomical beyond belief.

Am I in favour of Universal Healthcare for Americans?........you better believe it

In the current circumstances can it be done?.............sorry, the price is too high.

How can I say that?........as you have pointed out we have been through it already, and at nothing like the scale that the US will face. Once the genie is out of the bottle it will eventually bankrupt your country.

[Chicog]

Is there a winner already?

Because Fox are already bitching about "International observers" even though the whole point of them being there is so America can say "You can trust them because we do".

But no, f*ckwit Murdoch and the idiots at Fox are making out like it's a factor in the election result.

They all deserve a bloody good slap frankly,

[Jingthing]

Funny. Canada did it. And Canadians are now richer per capita than Americans. I never said COPY Scotland. I don't think there is any choice in the long run but to have some form of universal USA health care. It's more expensive NOT to do it. Yes it SHOULD have started back when FDR first advocated for it, in the 1940's. But we can't turn back the clock. Obama made a first effort in the right direction. Sorry, but as a proud American I'm not about to accept a lecture from a European that we can't do something for our people that CANADIANS can do! I know Americans can do this, and afford it, its a matter of political priorities.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[smokie36]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

[theblether]

Nobody has a problem the scale of yours JT.............the biggest single problem with the Scottish / UK system is that there is an inexhaustible demand for treatments...........the only way, and I do worry it wouldn't work, that the US could do it would be to proscribe at the very beginning what would be covered and that's it.

here's the problem though.....every time there is an election the new battle cry will be......" and I will expand the treatments available"

Politicians can't help themselves, they will promise the world with someone else's money.......and leave the bill to the next generation.

You know that as well as I do.

[Chicog]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

I think that's crap. Free universal healthcare is a very good concept generally ruined by people that want to screw what they can out of it (and that includes providers and customers).

"People need to take responsibility for their health"?

Oh please, not that old chestnut.

[theblether]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

Totally right Smokie.......the system is raped and abused on a daily basis. The US should be very very careful about this.

[theblether]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

I think that's crap. Free universal healthcare is a very good concept generally ruined by people that want to screw what they can out of it (and that includes providers and customers).

"People need to take responsibility for their health"?

Oh please, not that old chestnut.

You just beat your own argument within the same sentence...............that was very impressive

So tell me Sir, how do you stop people abusing the system? Hmm, hmm?

[Jingthing]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

Canadians love their system and they would never trade it for the American disaster. It isn't only about your provincial history. America can learn from the successes and failures of the many civilized countries with full access systems and create a system tailored to that knowledge and the American environment. In ways, a fresh start American system could have an advantage knowing what usually works and what usually doesn't work.

BTW, the USA already has large national health: Medicaid / Medicare / Veterans Care but only limited populations. So lots of experience domestically to draw upon as well.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[smokie36]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

I think that's crap. Free universal healthcare is a very good concept generally ruined by people that want to screw what they can out of it (and that includes providers and customers).

"People need to take responsibility for their health"?

Oh please, not that old chestnut.

Suit yourself chicog but the fastest growing business now in my game is Bariatric surgery...and yes that's the UK not the US.

Each patient costs the NHS a fortune.

Keep on dreaming pal....anyway don't you have something better to do right now?

[Jingthing]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

Totally right Smokie.......the system is raped and abused on a daily basis. The US should be very very careful about this.

In any case, Obamacare is nothing like national health. It mandates everyone outside Medicaid/Medicare/Veterans have (PAY FOR) private insurance and expands poverty Medicaid for those not poor enough for current Medicaid and not monied enough to pay private insurance. It allows access for people with preexisting conditions, which is a HUGE issue in the USA.

It is a middle way. A very conservative PRO BUSINESS, PRO PROFIT middle way, about as socialistic as Donald Trump.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[smokie36]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

Canadians love their system and they would never trade it for the American disaster. It isn't only about your provincial history. America can learn from the successes and failures of the many civilized countries with full access systems and create a system tailored to that knowledge and the American environment. In ways, a fresh start American system could have an advantage knowing what usually works and what usually doesn't work.

BTW, the USA already has large national health: Medicaid / Medicare / Veterans Care but only limited populations. So lots of experience domestically to draw upon as well.

Yes JT its politically favourable but financially a disaster. Also just encourages laziness amongst those predisposed.

I must be becoming more right wing in my views of this....kindly excuse me...my patients today were rather large!

Edited November 6, 2012 by smokie36

[theblether]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

Totally right Smokie.......the system is raped and abused on a daily basis. The US should be very very careful about this.

In any case, Obamacare is nothing like national health. It mandates everyone outside Medicaid/Medicare/Veterans have (PAY FOR) private insurance and expands poverty Medicaid for those not poor enough for current Medicaid and not monied enough to pay private insurance. It allows access for people with preexisting conditions, which is a HUGE issue in the USA.

I'm aware of that, with the threat of a $10,000 fine for non compliance?

Anyway JT.......that's a conversation for another day, it's General Election day today and whatever happens I wish the US well.......your country is important to all of us.

[GiHadOrange]

I am pro American too. I want for Americans what Europeans have for Europeans. ...

Sorry, but as a proud American I'm not about to accept a lecture from a European that we can't do something for our people that CANADIANS can do! ...

arguments on the internets

[Jingthing]

If you are visiting the USA ... don't get sick.

[smokie36]

If you are visiting the USA ... don't get sick.

Its very true. One of the issues is liability insurance premiums....you should google how much a US doctor pays per year for this. Its absolutely ridiculous!

[theblether]

Free universal healthcare is a disaster. People need to take responsibility for their health. Partial free healthcare is a sensible option.

From a long time UK NHS worker....

Canadians love their system and they would never trade it for the American disaster. It isn't only about your provincial history. America can learn from the successes and failures of the many civilized countries with full access systems and create a system tailored to that knowledge and the American environment. In ways, a fresh start American system could have an advantage knowing what usually works and what usually doesn't work.

BTW, the USA already has large national health: Medicaid / Medicare / Veterans Care but only limited populations. So lots of experience domestically to draw upon as well.

Yes JT its politically favourable but financially a disaster. Also just encourages laziness amongst those predisposed.

I must be becoming more right wing in my views of this....kindly excuse me...my patients today were rather large!

It's all rooted in the 1870 Education Act, what happened then set the UK on a downward path............if I told the story here people would think I was nuts but seriously.......downward path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_Education_Act_1870

The fallacy of good intentions.

[Jingthing]

I'm aware of that, with the threat of a $10,000 fine for non compliance?

Anyway JT.......that's a conversation for another day, it's General Election day today and whatever happens I wish the US well.......your country is important to all of us.

That fine information is incorrect. You got that wildly wrong and that should be corrected:

So, basically, you're looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:

• 
  
  • Less than $9,500 income = $0
    
  • $9,500 - $37,000 income = $695
    
  • $50,000 income = $1,000
    
  • $75,000 income = $1,600
    
  • $100,000 income = $2,250
    
  • $125,000 income = $2,900
    
  • $150,000 income = $3,500
    
  • $175,000 income = $4,100
    
  • $200,000 income = $4,700
    
  • Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan
    

Read more: http://www.businessi...7#ixzz2BTSwdApV

Why wouldn't someone making 100,000 who could be able to buy insurance (preexisting conditions allowed) NOT buy insurance anyway! The fines are actually TOO SMALL. Like I said, Romneycare/Obamacare is a conservative idea all about personal responsibility.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[theblether]

So how much is a bronze insurance plan then?

ps I did add a question mark to my first mention of the fine......I picked up that figure from a BBC report the other day and I thought it was excessive.

ooops just read the link..........the fine will be between $12-16,000.

So I wasn't so wildly wrong after all eh?

Edited November 6, 2012 by theblether

[Jingthing]

So how much is a bronze insurance plan then?

You're talking about wealthy people who would almost all buy the insurance. I don't know and I don't care. If people that wealthy refuse to participate, I would think they deserve a massive penalty. They would be total fools just not to buy the insurance as opposed to the fine. In other words, for that wealth level, a non-issue. Bronze means the cheapest.

If you're talking about the cost of private insurance in general being too high. Yes, it is way too high. Access is addressed with Obamacare. Costs aren't. It's a huge issue and Obamacare is only a first step.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[theblether]

So how much is a bronze insurance plan then?

You're talking about wealthy people who would almost all buy the insurance. I don't know and I don't care. If people that wealthy refuse to participate, I would think they deserve a massive penalty. They would be total fools just not to buy the insurance as opposed to the fine. In other words, for that wealth level, a non-issue.

You just said I was wildly wrong, and the link you provided stated that my $10,000 figure was low-ball

I think you should apologize for doubting theblether.......I was right after all.

[Jingthing]

So how much is a bronze insurance plan then?

You're talking about wealthy people who would almost all buy the insurance. I don't know and I don't care. If people that wealthy refuse to participate, I would think they deserve a massive penalty. They would be total fools just not to buy the insurance as opposed to the fine. In other words, for that wealth level, a non-issue.

You just said I was wildly wrong, and the link you provided stated that my $10,000 figure was low-ball

I think you should apologize for doubting theblether.......I was right after all.

I have no idea what you are talking about now. A typical middle class income is 40,000 USD (penalty under 1,000). Where did you see 10,000 in that graphic?

To me, this isn't only about money, it's a huge humanitarian crisis in America that has been going on for decades now. BTW, I recall studies estimating the percentage of Americans who will be subject to penalties to be about one percent. You do see the NEED for penalties, YES?!? The idea is to try to persuade people not to wait until they are sick to buy the insurance. BTW, I never see any of your posted images in ANY of your posts.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Jingthing