Oh My Gawwwd

[chanchao]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/08Feb2006_news13.php

" Chiang Mai _ The cabinet yesterday gave the go-ahead for a feasibility study of the proposed tunnel under the northern mountain ridge to create a shortcut from Chiang Mai to Mae Hong Son province. The Ministry of Transport would be in charge of studying the viability and construction costs of the project, which would help shorten the route between Chiang Mai to Mae Hong Son by 60km, said government spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee.

There was still no estimated cost for the project, he said.

However, it was likely to be 20% more expensive than a normal road because of the costs of digging the tunnel through the mountain ridge. "

===============

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!! 20% more than a normal road???? Digging a *&@$*@$ TUNNEL under a mountain ridge?? 20%??????????

I don't know weather to laugh or cry at the people in government sometimes. I guess the former is better for my health, and have an extra drink.

cheers people.

[chownah]

Yeah, seems unlikely to be only 20% more......but....if you only had to build one short tunnel to save many miles of road building then they might be right....actually, from an engineering standpoint most tunnels are built because ultimately they save money.....otherwise why build one?.

[Ajarn]

What they said was that the total cost of the road project will likely be 20% higher, due to the tunnel construction. Only a pure guess because no feasibility study has been done yet. Nothing surprising about that to me.

And, hey, they built the Khuntan tunnel in 1918, so I'm pretty sure they could handle this project, which has been talked about for at least the last ten years.

[jomama]

And, hey, they built the Khuntan tunnel in 1918, so I'm pretty sure they could handle this project, which has been talked about for at least the last ten years.

Just as a matter of note, I belive the Khuntan Tunnel was built under German engineering management.

From the Thailand government national parks website:

"Khun Tan tunnel has another name called cemetery of laborers as it is said that over 1,000 workers died while constructing the tunnel because of the suffocation, accidents, malaria, tigers, and fighting amongst themselves. The workers were mostly from the northeast of Thailand and many of them were (gioven) opium addition to wages. Emil Eisenhofer, a German railroad engineer was assigned in building the tunnel. A monument in front of the tunnel contains Eisenhofer’s ashes is dedicated to him and all the workers who died while building this tunnel."

[Ajarn]

Not just the tunnel, either. Emil Eisenhofer was involved in construction on the whole of the Northern Railway line. The German Embassy still takes care of his memorial at Khuntan

[chanchao]

Still, it begs the question: WHHHYYYY !!? WHAT is in Mae Hong Son that it needs stellar access from Chiang Mai or anywhere else? Even tourism-wise, the attraction *IS* the relative remoteness. If you want to build really great highways then I can think of some places that are in far more desperate need of a proper highway connection. (Bangkok - Nakhon Sawan for starters, or Chiang Mai - Chiang Rai on a road that doesn't thunder straight through Mae Khachan, Wiang Pa Pao etc etc.). Or even Chiang Rai --> China. ANYTHING!

BTW, in countries like Germany and France when they want to burn money and build a great highway through mountainous terrain, they build BRIDGES, so traffic can go straight rather than wind down one mountain and then up the next.

As for cost, go ask the Brits & French what the canal tunnel cost, then apply the cost per kilometer to the distance Chiang mai - Mae Hong Son.

[davidgtr]

It's totally amazing that this request has been accepted, & is even being considered.

If I’m right this idea was originally proposed by the MHS Chamber of Commerce early? last year & the absolute fantasy was that it would be a short cut from MHS – Chiang Mai via Wat Chan & Samoeng.

Now it remains to be seen if this is exactly what they are still aiming for, but for me it would be a total waste of money if they thought they would cut the travel time from Cnx – MHS this way. They might cut the distance, but I don’t think there is any way they could cut the travel time, unless they made it all a 4-lane super highway & just think of the expense (& kick backs) involved in that.

Right now

Chiang Mai – Samoeng = 50 minutes

Samoeng – Wat Chan = 1 hr

Wat Chan – Huay Poo Ling – MHS = 3-4 hrs

Total = approximately 5 hrs if you’re lucky & know what you’re doing.

I can already get to MHS in 4 hrs fast non-stop via Pai, & if they just spent a fraction of the tunnel money on R1095 (Mae Malai – Pai – MHS) & turned it into a 4-lane motorway (most of the way) then I’m sure you could get to MHS in 3 hrs, maybe less. The distance is only 240 kms. You would almost never be able to do this going to MHS via Samoeng – Wat Chan – Huay Poo Ling.

So what we have is just another job for the boys, that is feasible but highly expensive, will need constant work & kick backs so ”we” are all making (wasting?) money, constantly. Good for business & some people’s bank accounts, but not good for the environment & or a worthwhile investment.

If you’ve never been on the MHS – Wat Chan track, then it is probably the last “wilderness area in North Thai, with fantastic forest. And I reckon that’s why the need to build a new highway thru there – take out the trees & make money. Someone wants the timber.

I hope I’m barking up the wrong tree, as they would be destroying the very thing that people like most about Mae Hong Son – the forest, natural environment & the road there!

[cmsally]

And I reckon that’s why the need to build a new highway thru there – take out the trees & make money. Someone wants the timber.

You've hit the nail on the head! I've seen it being done with local roads. Routing the road so the biggest trees can be felled.

The budget to develop historical Chiang Mai in a previous post is a joke, as the route being taken at the moment seems to be bent on destruction. Zero interest in preserving ancient buildings, zero control over building regulations within the old town. Maybe zero brain power at work. It doesn't need a genius to realise most of these things. And I don't believe all the Thais want to see modern Disneylands when they travel. If they did why do Thai friends of mine (of many age groups and backgrounds) enjoy travelling to such places as Luang Prabang and Hanoi. They like to see the old buildings and culture. None of them said they went there for the 4 lane highways or Starbucks cafes!

[mobile69]

Wat Chan – Huay Poo Ling – MHS = 3-4 hrs

Total = approximately 5 hrs if you’re lucky & know what you’re doing.

David, is the Wat Chan to MHS via Huay Poo Ling drivable in a pickup or is it just for bikes? Seen the track on your map of the mhs loop & it looks interesting. Also any chance of getting it as a track plot file to load on my Garmin GPS. Better still, have you ever considered publishing the map in garmin format?

[p1p]

Wat Chan – Huay Poo Ling – MHS = 3-4 hrs

Total = approximately 5 hrs if you’re lucky & know what you’re doing.

David, is the Wat Chan to MHS via Huay Poo Ling drivable in a pickup or is it just for bikes? Seen the track on your map of the mhs loop & it looks interesting. Also any chance of getting it as a track plot file to load on my Garmin GPS. Better still, have you ever considered publishing the map in garmin format?

Definitely dooable and a nice days drive. Need 4 wheel drive in the wet.

[davidgtr]

Wat Chan – Huay Poo Ling – MHS = 3-4 hrs

Total = approximately 5 hrs if you’re lucky & know what you’re doing.

David, is the Wat Chan to MHS via Huay Poo Ling drivable in a pickup or is it just for bikes? Seen the track on your map of the mhs loop & it looks interesting. Also any chance of getting it as a track plot file to load on my Garmin GPS. Better still, have you ever considered publishing the map in garmin format?

Mobile69

Yeah it's do-able in a 4WD, provided you’re half decent in the steep rough stuff & you've got good ground clearance, or a Hmong cabbage pick-up driver. If you’re not experienced off-road then my advice is to give it a miss or you’ll be asking for trouble.

Sorry no chance of any give away GPS tracks, unless you've got some that I don't have & your tracking nodes are done at 20 metre intervals. “Unfortunately” the same goes for a Garmin / GPS map for everyone to swap share - no chance - as I survive "just" on hard copy maps.

Take a look at The MHS Loop: Checking Dirt Roads & Trails if you want to see some pix of the roads & trails on the MHS Loop.

[p1p]

We went with a Lisu friend in a new(ish) Toyota 4 door puckup. It was jacked up but only 2 wheel drive. Yes, some places were quite hairy, but it was an enjoyable, if long and bumpy, days journey.

[sabaijai]

I've driven the Samoeng - Wat Chan road and see the same thing, seal it and you don't gain all that much time.

Meanwhile they're almost finished with a new four-lane bypass that cuts over to the Mae Hong Sons road before you reach Mae Malai. Looks like it might shave all of 10-12 minutes off the drive time from Chiang Mai to Pai. But it will also ease traffic in the Mae Malai market area around that 3-way junction, and will improve the lives of those living in Mae Malai a bit. (Wish they'd cut a bypass around Sanpatong as that 's a much worse bottleneck on the Chiang Mai - Hot route.)

But I don't understand exactly where they're talking about putting this tunnel in relation to the Wat Chan road. Seems to me it must deviate from the Wat Chan road somewhere and forma separate route, no? If so maybe it will be a time-saver.

Still I think David is on the money guessing it's all about kickbacks and getting at the big trees in that relatively unspoiled area. Even if the project's not about that, it will certainly make it a lot easier for timber poachers to access the area and take out larger quantities of timber than they do now.

[p1p]

What can we expect. Persons of power and influence have the right to "Gin Muang". Don't they?

[chanchao]

> As for cost, go ask the Brits & French what the canal tunnel cost,

> then apply the cost per kilometer to the distance Chiang mai -

> Mae Hong Son.

...And, as for a time estimate: Check how long the tunnels on the ring roads took/are taking, then apply the time per meter to the distance Chiang Mai - Mae Hong Son. :D Chances are many of us won't live to see it completed.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Finish the current projects first please. I saw 6 people working on the superhighway today!

[skylar]

Starbucks cafes!

Too late, it's called Trung Nguyen. And they have over 400 franchises in Vietnam.

[mobile69]

Wat Chan – Huay Poo Ling – MHS = 3-4 hrs

Total = approximately 5 hrs if you’re lucky & know what you’re doing.

Sorry no chance of any give away GPS tracks, unless you've got some that I don't have & your tracking nodes are done at 20 metre intervals. “Unfortunately” the same goes for a Garmin / GPS map for everyone to swap share - no chance - as I survive "just" on hard copy maps.

If you don't ask, you don't get, even a rejection. Appreciate your response, kind of expected it. Not sure it's possible to have tracklog you don't have, you seem to have been pretty much everywhere. Got quite a collection of tracks, but obviously, only where I've been. Not as adventurous as in my time when working in pre GPS days, making topo maps of Yemen, and later on criss crossing the Empty Quarter & Graeat Nafud deserts in Saudi, but like to do the occasional dry dirt road trip here in Thailand. Did the road from Mae Wang up onto Inthanon today. Nice little run, great views of east slopes of the mountain. Surprised at lack of tour groups at the waterfalls coming down from Khun Klang - have they stopped going there due to 200bt entrance fees? Waterfall near Mae Sapok on Mae Wang packed out with about half a dozen minibuses full of foreign tourists.