Sukampol Approves Decision To Strip Abhisit Of Military Rank

[webfact]

RT@tulsathit: Abhisit admits his being stripped of Army rank might complicate his MP status and thus the opposition's censure motion.

RT@tulsathit: Abhisit: There's always an attempt to take me out of politics for good.

[OzMick]

Sow the whirlwind, reap the hurricane.

........storm in a teacup.

[Sing_Sling]

"The attempt to remove my military rank is improper and politically motivated. The allegations against me do not involve my actions - they concern invalid documents.

Indeed . . . and these invalid documents relate directly to your rank and benefits

Abhisit said the move to strip him of his rank demonstrated a double standard, because others who had been sentenced to jail and had their assets confiscated had retained their ranks.

Hardly a valid defense . . .

Good, let him be stripped of something he doesn't deserve. At least one 'wrong' is 'righted' - and those who cry on about political motives . . . suck it up, it happens every time the government changes.

This is Thailand . . .

[Nickymaster]

RT@tulsathit: Abhisit admits his being stripped of Army rank might complicate his MP status and thus the opposition's censure motion.

RT@tulsathit: Abhisit: There's always an attempt to take me out of politics for good.

More fuel on the Pithak Siam fire. Viva democracy.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Nickymaster

[Nickymaster]

"The attempt to remove my military rank is improper and politically motivated. The allegations against me do not involve my actions - they concern invalid documents.

Indeed . . . and these invalid documents relate directly to your rank and benefits

Abhisit said the move to strip him of his rank demonstrated a double standard, because others who had been sentenced to jail and had their assets confiscated had retained their ranks.

Hardly a valid defense . . .

Good, let him be stripped of something he doesn't deserve. At least one 'wrong' is 'righted' - and those who cry on about political motives . . . suck it up, it happens every time the government changes.

This is Thailand . . .

And for those who cry when a few hundred thousand people take to the streets because they are fed up with this corrupt government, SUCK IT UP!

This is thailand...

Edited November 9, 2012 by Nickymaster

[jayboy]

Sow the whirlwind, reap the hurricane.

........storm in a teacup.

Possibly and this kind of draft dodging is very common among the well off in Thailand.In the overall scheme of things I agree with you it's not that important.And yet and yet... it may serve a purpose in reminding the privileged that they remain accountable.It also gives Abhisit a flavour of the political motivation that he dislikes so much when applied to himself.

[carra]

this thread is about abhisit so rather than play the deflection game with you I will discuss abhisit.

There is no correlation between this case and others with the scenarios he mentions. he is talking about people with criminal convictions not having their ranks removed, Of course if the law states that ranks should be removed after a conviction then he would have a point, however in this matter there is no conviction, there is a simple a man that has a rank that was not qualified to hold that rank in the first place, either by his wrongdoing or by someone else. The rank should be removed but salary should not be paid back as he actually worked for that salary.

Does anyone know if the law states that once convicted of a criminal offence ranks should be removed from and individual?

You should be careful when contravening the official party line. If, as you say, he is entitled to his salary as he adequately carried out the task of military lecturer, then obviously he has carried out his national service commitment and is not a draft dodger as claimed by the committee.

This makes them look both petty and spiteful, and the whole brouhaha a political ruse to discredit an opponent. But we knew that, didn't we?

Could you be any more tedious??

I tow the official party line do I?

in fact forget it, I will just report your post

[klubex99]

When are they all gonna grow up and stop playing these stupid games and actually start governing this country properly and fairly?

Because enough evidence exists to suggest that monkeys are incapable of governing a country, however they are more than capable of fighting with other monkeys.

It's all horses for courses really.

[carra]

There is no correlation between this case and others with the scenarios he mentions.

The correlation is obvious and to with who warrants being stripped of a rank and who doesn't. Just because the case for him being stripped isn't the same as the case for others, doesn't mean they don't all have relevance in this discussion.

Do you think, no matter what the law says, but in principle, convicted criminals should be allowed to retain their ranks? If the answer is no, which i think it would be for most normal people, well then, is it really any wonder that Abhisit, who has just been passed judgement on by a committee set up by Thaksin's government, would make mention of Thaksin's own situation with regards rank (by rank i mean his status not how gross he is), and have a jolly good right to do so?

Again someone seems to be missing the point, there has to be a difference between those that legally earned their rank, and this case where the rank was achieved through dishonest means, you can not compare the two, so my point is wholly relevant.

It is like law, it is not legal to enter into an illegal contract, so law would void the contract, just like in this instance, his rank has been gained by illegal means so therefore he should not hold the rank.

Again i will ask, does the law state that when convicted of a criminal offence then rank must be removed? i really do not know the answer, my guess is no, it is based on individual cases. But in the case of Abhisit he should not have held the rank to start with so whether it is removed or not should not even be up for question, he did not deserve the rank so he should not hold the rank,

[Robbie Dye]

Don't worry, Obama is on the way, he'll sort them ALL out

[Johnnie99]

Rarely have I used the word 'gormless' so much as since I have been here. It's a good job they cannot really take a world view or they would cringe in embarrassment at how the world laughs at them or sniggers behind their backs.

[monkeycountry]

If I was Mr. Abhisit, I would go home, take a shower and go out and have a beer.

Who cares abut a silly military rank and some pocket change he may or may not have to pay back.

If PTP has a case and want something from Mr. Abhisit, then surely they will sue him. If not, then it will probably end with the loss of a rank that noone should care about. Indeed, considering the corrupt state of the Thai military, one should be proud NOT to have a rank there :-)

[rixalex]

Again someone seems to be missing the point, there has to be a difference between those that legally earned their rank, and this case where the rank was achieved through dishonest means, you can not compare the two, so my point is wholly relevant.

As i said, there are different reasons for why someone might be stripped of rank. One is that they may have used forged documents, another is that they may have broken the law and been convicted. Different reasons for the same action of stripping. Perfectly comparable. Uncomfortable comparison for some, of course yes.

Again i will ask, does the law state that when convicted of a criminal offence then rank must be removed? i really do not know the answer, my guess is no, it is based on individual cases. But in the case of Abhisit he should not have held the rank to start with so whether it is removed or not should not even be up for question, he did not deserve the rank so he should not hold the rank,

I am not certain either, but my guess is that with regards convicted felons, there is a military protocol rather than a law, that deems they lose their rank after being found guilty of an imprisonable offence. Those lower down the chain i would suggest would be quite certain to be stripped immediately. Those higher up who have friends remaining in service, can probably use their influence to make sure the necessary stripping paperwork gets put to the bottom of the tray and not dealt with... and have the matter continually delayed.. which i would suggest describes Thaksin's situation and why he has avoided stripping (i don't mean the Patpong sort of stripping, although i understand he is quite hard up these days).

As for your statement he did not deserve the rank so he should not hold the rank. How do you know that? Because the government set up committee told you so?

[khunken]

this thread is about abhisit so rather than play the deflection game with you I will discuss abhisit.

There is no correlation between this case and others with the scenarios he mentions. he is talking about people with criminal convictions not having their ranks removed, Of course if the law states that ranks should be removed after a conviction then he would have a point, however in this matter there is no conviction, there is a simple a man that has a rank that was not qualified to hold that rank in the first place, either by his wrongdoing or by someone else. The rank should be removed but salary should not be paid back as he actually worked for that salary.

Does anyone know if the law states that once convicted of a criminal offence ranks should be removed from and individual?

You should be careful when contravening the official party line. If, as you say, he is entitled to his salary as he adequately carried out the task of military lecturer, then obviously he has carried out his national service commitment and is not a draft dodger as claimed by the committee.

This makes them look both petty and spiteful, and the whole brouhaha a political ruse to discredit an opponent. But we knew that, didn't we?

Could you be any more tedious??

I tow the official party line do I?

in fact forget it, I will just report your post

Your last comment is a perfect example of 'shoot the messenger'. Congratulations on dragging this thread to a new low,

The whole 'investigation' is just nothing more than a sham, bent on trying to remove the opposition leader. Another good example of Thaksin's idea of democracy. Started by PT, 'investigated' by PT & no doubt all with judgemental power will be pressured to 'find' him guilty.

Actually PT may well shoot itself in the foot (not for the first time). If they manage to eliminate Abhisit, they may well get a less-mild far more rabid replacement along the lines of Chalerm.

[Thai at Heart]

RT@tulsathit: Abhisit admits his being stripped of Army rank might complicate his MP status and thus the opposition's censure motion.

RT@tulsathit: Abhisit: There's always an attempt to take me out of politics for good.

Well, could it cause him to be stripped of his MP's status? If that is the case, this opens a whole can of worms.

[Nickymaster]

this thread is about abhisit so rather than play the deflection game with you I will discuss abhisit.

There is no correlation between this case and others with the scenarios he mentions. he is talking about people with criminal convictions not having their ranks removed, Of course if the law states that ranks should be removed after a conviction then he would have a point, however in this matter there is no conviction, there is a simple a man that has a rank that was not qualified to hold that rank in the first place, either by his wrongdoing or by someone else. The rank should be removed but salary should not be paid back as he actually worked for that salary.

Does anyone know if the law states that once convicted of a criminal offence ranks should be removed from and individual?

You should be careful when contravening the official party line. If, as you say, he is entitled to his salary as he adequately carried out the task of military lecturer, then obviously he has carried out his national service commitment and is not a draft dodger as claimed by the committee.

This makes them look both petty and spiteful, and the whole brouhaha a political ruse to discredit an opponent. But we knew that, didn't we?

Could you be any more tedious??

I tow the official party line do I?

in fact forget it, I will just report your post

Your last comment is a perfect example of 'shoot the messenger'. Congratulations on dragging this thread to a new low,

The whole 'investigation' is just nothing more than a sham, bent on trying to remove the opposition leader. Another good example of Thaksin's idea of democracy. Started by PT, 'investigated' by PT & no doubt all with judgemental power will be pressured to 'find' him guilty.

Actually PT may well shoot itself in the foot (not for the first time). If they manage to eliminate Abhisit, they may well get a less-mild far more rabid replacement along the lines of Chalerm.

RT@tulsathit: Abhisit admits his being stripped of Army rank might complicate his MP status and thus the opposition's censure motion.

Could be Thaksin's strategy to protect his sister from being grilled.

[PhilipCook]

Its a farcical members only club that should be thinned out. Abhisit's case aside, if the government wants a balanced budget they need to privatize the State Railways of Thailand and drastically reduce the active-honorary-fake military crowd to what the country actually needs to defend itself. Thaksin's team should be more than willing to give these devils a big haircut.

[Thai at Heart]

this thread is about abhisit so rather than play the deflection game with you I will discuss abhisit.

There is no correlation between this case and others with the scenarios he mentions. he is talking about people with criminal convictions not having their ranks removed, Of course if the law states that ranks should be removed after a conviction then he would have a point, however in this matter there is no conviction, there is a simple a man that has a rank that was not qualified to hold that rank in the first place, either by his wrongdoing or by someone else. The rank should be removed but salary should not be paid back as he actually worked for that salary.

Does anyone know if the law states that once convicted of a criminal offence ranks should be removed from and individual?

You should be careful when contravening the official party line. If, as you say, he is entitled to his salary as he adequately carried out the task of military lecturer, then obviously he has carried out his national service commitment and is not a draft dodger as claimed by the committee.

This makes them look both petty and spiteful, and the whole brouhaha a political ruse to discredit an opponent. But we knew that, didn't we?

Could you be any more tedious??

I tow the official party line do I?

in fact forget it, I will just report your post

Your last comment is a perfect example of 'shoot the messenger'. Congratulations on dragging this thread to a new low,

The whole 'investigation' is just nothing more than a sham, bent on trying to remove the opposition leader. Another good example of Thaksin's idea of democracy. Started by PT, 'investigated' by PT & no doubt all with judgemental power will be pressured to 'find' him guilty.

Actually PT may well shoot itself in the foot (not for the first time). If they manage to eliminate Abhisit, they may well get a less-mild far more rabid replacement along the lines of Chalerm.

Well, as I mentioned somewhere else, the ALL have some skeletons in their closet. We can say however, that they have had to hold Abhisit to a pretty high level to get something on him, but apparently they have. Politics in Thailand is an extremely dirty game and it isn't "nice" that they got him on something like this. Maybe it sets a nice precedent, and they will find that hundreds of them in the parliament did the same thing, so it might catch out Chalerm or someone on the PTP side too.

[Thai at Heart]

Its a farcical members only club that should be thinned out. Abhisit's case aside, if the government wants a balanced budget they need to privatize the State Railways of Thailand and drastically reduce the active-honorary-fake military crowd to what the country actually needs to defend itself. Thaksin's team should be more than willing to give these devils a big haircut.

You think that any Thai politician is ever going to really deal with the overpopulation at the top of the ranks of the Thai army? That would spark a coup just by the time they finished the sentence announcing it.

[technologybytes]

I'm a little confused here.. he's a politician why would he be surprised (or even upset) that judgements are politically motivated..

Actually, I couldn't care less about the politics of Thailand. When they start to play like grown-ups instead of a bunch of spoiled brats, then I'll care and pay attention.

[julemanden]

When are they all gonna grow up and stop playing these stupid games and actually start governing this country properly and fairly?

Easy to answer.... NEVER !!!

[RogueLeader]

Little men and their little battles. When will Thailand produce its first great political statesman? None are in evidence here.

[orang37]

an independently put together committee

This concept cannot be translated into Thai.

~o:37;

Edited November 9, 2012 by orang37

[Soi Sauce]

I wouldn't worry. Case will be wiped off the records when the amnesty for politically motivated convictions is given, coz this action certainly is.

Really though, this is beyond pathetic.

Also, didn't the convicted runaway say that cheating was not a problem and part of Thai culture when his son was caught cheating in his uni exams.Did he have his qualification revoked?

Surely then Thaksin will admire Abhisit for demonstrating true Thai character, so SEc Def should leave him alone.

If not, more nazi double standards.

[MahaYellow]

Every polititian in every country, repeat every country,

has a skeleton in the closet awaiting to be discovered.

Thailand is no different.

[Sing_Sling]

"The attempt to remove my military rank is improper and politically motivated. The allegations against me do not involve my actions - they concern invalid documents.

Indeed . . . and these invalid documents relate directly to your rank and benefits

Abhisit said the move to strip him of his rank demonstrated a double standard, because others who had been sentenced to jail and had their assets confiscated had retained their ranks.

Hardly a valid defense . . .

Good, let him be stripped of something he doesn't deserve. At least one 'wrong' is 'righted' - and those who cry on about political motives . . . suck it up, it happens every time the government changes.

This is Thailand . . .

And for those who cry when a few hundred thousand people take to the streets because they are fed up with this corrupt government, SUCK IT UP!

This is thailand...

You don't see any irony in paid demonstrators taking to the streets to decry corruption? You don't see both sides doing it? Are you one-eyed to the extreme?

Again, refer to my last post: "and those who cry on about political motives . . . suck it up, it happens every time the government changes.

This is Thailand . . ."

There is no right or wrong, there just IS in its many guises

[Sydebolle]

The whole world is having a good laugh about the planet's biggest kindergarten called "Thailand". IMHO there are much bigger fish to fry and should be attended to without any further delay before Thailand goes down completely! Pathetic indeed.

[Jawnie]

Hahaha.....great.

ABSOLUTELY <deleted>' GREAT.

Love it!!!

[rubl]

Just a reminder on how grave, urgent and possibly National Security threatening this particular case is:

"The ministry said that Abhisit's document stated he was exempted from military service and was enlisted as a reserve officer on April 8, 1988, but that in the records at the Conscription Registrar's Office, the date of enlistment was stated as July 4, 1986."

Rather than further rehashing all which was said, stated, speculated before, may I point to two topics on this

2012-07-21

Fake Document Got Abhisit His Military Job, Defence Ministry Says

http://www.thaivisa....-ministry-says/

2012-07-24

Thai Defence Minister Sukampol Cancels Press Conference On Abhisit Conscription Case

http://www.thaivisa....e/#entry5512712

[unanimosity]

Having spent 2 years of my life wearing green, it would be most disconcerting to me if some ministry paper-pusher said there was a typo on a document, and therefore it never happened.

Is that what it was, a typo? In your lexicon, forged documents equate to a typo? My, my. It is one thing to wear green; quite another to have honor, mate.