11 Feb Anti-Thaksin Demonstration Thread

[tettyan]

When we talk about the "opposition", we have to remember that it is not by any means monolithic. I think there's a big difference between the parliamentary opposition (i.e. the Democrats) and the guys out on the street, like Sondhi and others. Even one of the speakers at the last rally (Sondhi) wondered out loud where the opposition lawmakers were - they were nowhere to be seen. I think the Democrats deliberately don't want their hands tied by what these loudmouths blurt out, while at the same time, the NGOs still distrust the Democrats because of their association with the IMF's "neo-liberal" restructuring programme.

To me, the funniest thing is that many of these activists and NGOs enthusiastically supported Thaksin when he was out of power in order to get rid of Chuan. And now a part of me thinks that they got exactly what they deserved, my disagreements with Mr. Thaksin aside. Unfortunately, it will be ordinary people who have to suffer in the end.

Colpyat, thanks for your comments. It seems to me that Thaksin is still popular upcountry, and he could very well win an election were he to call one tomorrow. But I doubt he could pull off a victory anywhere close to the same scale as he managed last February.

My 2 cents.

[ColPyat]

I think the Democrats deliberately don't want their hands tied by what these loudmouths blurt out, while at the same time, the NGOs still distrust the Democrats because of their association with the IMF's "neo-liberal" restructuring programme.

To me, the funniest thing is that many of these activists and NGOs enthusiastically supported Thaksin when he was out of power in order to get rid of Chuan. And now a part of me thinks that they got exactly what they deserved, my disagreements with Mr. Thaksin aside. Unfortunately, it will be ordinary people who have to suffer in the end.

Very true.

I do hope that the democrats will stay out of the present trouble, so that they can be an alternative one day again, when sanity returns. I may be a bit naive, but i feel that the new leadership of the democrats is promising.

Nevertheless, i fear that we will have to see a lot of unpleasant changes before that time comes. Unfortunately Thailand has not used the opportunity of the '97 crises to change the underlying soco-economical mechanics of a semi-feudal patron systhem with inherent corruption and social injustice, that have led to IMF domination. And as long as this necessary evolution will not happen from within Thai society, nothing will improve.

Neither "Thaksinomics" nor outdated nationalism/royalism as advocated by the non-parliamentary opposition is the answer.

The only somewhat good thing that came out of TRT rule is that at least now the powers are forced to adress the upcountry population's needs, and not just use them to get votes.Thaksin definately has politicised the villages.

[bulmercke]

ColPyat wrote:

"The problem i have with the nation is that their reporting is slightly slanted by wishful thinking, if not pure activism. This is not the role of journalism. Of course it is not the role of journalism either to obey government censorship.

Anyhow, i dare to predict that the TV channels now showing more of the protests will not sway the upcountry voters, might even achieve the opposite. Especially because during the speaches logic was replaced more often than not by blatant insults, such as sondhi's (rather funny) joke about samak and his dog DNA.

This is a very critical time for Thailand. Thaksin is rousing the support of the majority. Even if he can be convicted of his crimes, how safe will it be to oust him against the wishes of the vast majority of the Thai population? Do you want to risk major bloodshed in order to get rid of him?

I don't view the demonstrators as that decent. The attempts of violence against the two lone Thaksin supporters at the rallies do show a different picture. If they would not have been protected they would have been torn to pieces."

You make a good point about The Nation. In fact, I'm inclined to think nowadays that the publication is becoming more of a public relations firm for the anti-Thaksin lot, and less with each passing day, a balanced broadsheet reporting on events.

I subscribe to The Nation and to their credit they have done (and are continuing to do) an admirable job - and yes - there's no mistaking their stance on Thaksin.

A few months ago they really got behind Sondhi and the weekly rallies being held in Lumpini Park, then they appeared to get cold feet and it looked like they were distancing themselves from Sondhi, with little mention of the rallies - and much denunciation of Sondhi and commentary about his dubious past in business amd tie-up with Thaksin before. This was in keeping with the line being taken by other anti-Thaksin gropus at the time, who for some reason tended to see the whole Sondhi thing as a one man show - the ulterior motive being to benefit himself primarily. WHICH WASN'T.....AND ISN'T THE CASE AT ALL.

Then, after the Shin sell-off they appeared to change tact again....and really got behind Sondhi and the growing anti-Thaksin movement and sentiment. Obviously an important editorial decision had been taken behind closed doors. Now they're firing on all guns. And giving it their all.

I think, to an extent, they've now committed themselves to being absolutely a fefacto part of the anti-Thaksin alliance.....and there's no going back for them. They're in there for the long run.

And I, personally, applaud them for this and respect the courage and committment of the paper.

In fact, if Thaksin escapes this crisis, i wouldn't be surprised to see The Nation shut down or it's editorial independence compromised in some way. (A few months ago there was a move to take a controlling stake in the Nation group - which was successfully seen off.)

For The Nation, it's a question of sinking or swimming with the movement as they have allied themselves TOTALLY.

RE: Bloodshed in the future. Inevitable I think, although like everyone else I hope it cn be avoided at all cost. However, this is Thailand!

""""If they would not have been protected they would have been torn to pieces."""" I think this is a slight exageration on your behalf. Who knows? As a matter of interest, I don't think there has been one arrest at any of Sondhi's rallies. I have attended four to date, including last Saturday's, and I haven't seen for that matter any inappropriate behaviour.

This is certainly a crucial period in Thailand's recent political history. And for sure, things will have to get worse, a whole lot worse, before they get better.

Edited February 13, 2006 by bulmercke

[ColPyat]

You make a good point about The Nation. In fact, I'm inclined to think nowadays that the publication is becoming more of a public relations firm for the anti-Thaksin lot, and less with each passing day, a balanced broadsheet reporting on events.

I subscribe to The Nation and to their credit they have done (and are continuing to do) an admirable job - and yes - there's no mistaking their stance on Thaksin.

For The Nation, it's a question of sinking or swimming with the movement as they have allied themselves TOTALLY.

RE: Bloodshed in the future. Inevitable I think, although like everyone else I hope it cn be avoided at all cost. However, this is Thailand!

""""If they would not have been protected they would have been torn to pieces."""" I think this is a slight exageration on your behalf. Who knows? As a matter of interest, I don't think there has been one arrest at any of Sondhi's rallies. I have attended four to date, including last Saturday's, and I haven't seen for that matter any inappropriate behaviour.

This is certainly a crucial period in Thailand's recent political history. And for sure, things will have to get worse, a whole lot worse, before they get better.

I expect from a newspaper to be as impartial as possible.

I believe i can make up my own mind if given enough information. It appears to me that the nation has lost a lot by allying themselves with Sondhi's crowd. Just the complete exaggeration of the numbers of protesters, and headlines suggesting that the movement has a wide support are as much propaganda as the government uses.

There is no way that there were that many demonstrators. I have seen in my youth demonstartions with 100K demonstrators, and that is a whole lot more people than i have seen at the royal plaza. The number given to me by high ranked police officers during informal chats is far more believable - 30 something thousand at the 4th, and 23 thousand last saturday.

The violence againts the lone Thaksin supporters was not obvious unless you were directly next to the crowd following the ones leading them away. It were extremely tense moments. The one last saturday had to sprint with his protectors the last 100 meters to safety. On the way he was kicked, slapped and abused. Fortunately a very big bloke was shielding him.

[bulmercke]

I would love to see Taxin go for what he has done in the past, but the current opposition is not credible. At least with Taxin there are no more surprises. We know him. The opposition is a different beast in itself.

I see a lot of similarities between Chavez and Taxin. The "Elite" Venezualans with the help of the CIA pigs tried to "remove" Chavez. They failed. The day after Chavez disappeared, they were enforcing a curfew and shooting at protesters in the name of "democracy" and more "freedom". At the end Chavez returned after his loyal guards of his Palace took over security and chased after the "illegal" self proclaimed president. With a strong support base, the coup was missed.

I think in some extend, this is what happening here, except that the military so far has not been involved. But it took months of protests by the opposition in Venezuela to organize their "coup".

I don't think we are there yet, maybe in 6 months things will be even more different

Butterfly: This link to The Nation is relevant to your comment: "I think in some extend, this is what happening here, except that the military so far has not been involved. But it took months of protests by the opposition in Venezuela to organize their "coup".

The Thai military have now involved themselves in the matter, albeit in an "apparently" small way.

Great to see Samak (the ex governor of Bangkok) go......another victory. His show should have been removed months ago. If Sodndhi's had to go.....then why on earth was his allowed to remain?

We all Know that one!

Samak made a big, big mistake criticising Prem Tinsulanonda. The man has TREMENDOUS respect amongst Thais, with the army, in particular, having great reverence for him.

Incidentally, I doubt Samak would have ever criticised the police whatever their shortcomings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/02/13...es_20000837.php

[bulmercke]

You make a good point about The Nation. In fact, I'm inclined to think nowadays that the publication is becoming more of a public relations firm for the anti-Thaksin lot, and less with each passing day, a balanced broadsheet reporting on events.

I subscribe to The Nation and to their credit they have done (and are continuing to do) an admirable job - and yes - there's no mistaking their stance on Thaksin.

For The Nation, it's a question of sinking or swimming with the movement as they have allied themselves TOTALLY.

RE: Bloodshed in the future. Inevitable I think, although like everyone else I hope it cn be avoided at all cost. However, this is Thailand!

""""If they would not have been protected they would have been torn to pieces."""" I think this is a slight exageration on your behalf. Who knows? As a matter of interest, I don't think there has been one arrest at any of Sondhi's rallies. I have attended four to date, including last Saturday's, and I haven't seen for that matter any inappropriate behaviour.

This is certainly a crucial period in Thailand's recent political history. And for sure, things will have to get worse, a whole lot worse, before they get better.

I expect from a newspaper to be as impartial as possible.

I believe i can make up my own mind if given enough information. It appears to me that the nation has lost a lot by allying themselves with Sondhi's crowd. Just the complete exaggeration of the numbers of protesters, and headlines suggesting that the movement has a wide support are as much propaganda as the government uses.

There is no way that there were that many demonstrators. I have seen in my youth demonstartions with 100K demonstrators, and that is a whole lot more people than i have seen at the royal plaza. The number given to me by high ranked police officers during informal chats is far more believable - 30 something thousand at the 4th, and 23 thousand last saturday.

The violence againts the lone Thaksin supporters was not obvious unless you were directly next to the crowd following the ones leading them away. It were extremely tense moments. The one last saturday had to sprint with his protectors the last 100 meters to safety. On the way he was kicked, slapped and abused. Fortunately a very big bloke was shielding him.

Yes....The Nation doesn't exercise much impartiality these days when it comes to all matters concerning Thaksin. Again, no problem for me, although in order to maintain a more balanced view of things I try to get information from others sources as well - The Post - Thaivisa - Bangkok Forums -

And yes....there were definitely fewer protesters at last Saturday's rally....but then again....not that many fewer. Difficult to estimate how many were there. I tried to liken the gathering to a football match. I reckon there were about twenty thousand present - difficult to say. No doubt, the government were looking at Google Earth again on Saturday!

Funnily enough, I noticed that there were considerable numbers of protesters turning up at the venue quite late in the evening. I saw a lot of folks with mobile phones, and I think a lot of people put off going to the plaza until they were reassured that the rally was definitely on and it was, indeed, safe to go there.

[tettyan]

I expect from a newspaper to be as impartial as possible. I believe i can make up my own mind if given enough information.

It's impossible for newspapers to be impartial - this isn't a phenomon specific to Thailand as you may know. Personally, I prefer media outlets to be upfront about their biases rather than really subtle (as many in the US are). At least you know what you're getting. If I read enough different media outlets with a full awareness of their bias, then I think I can make up my mind. Relying on a single media outlet, no matter how "impartial" it may appear, could be a risky proposition.

[chownah]

I think that the threats of violence against the two Toxin supporters who were ushered out of the rally are absolutely unimportant. Those two were being totally foolish and rude on top of it, in my opinion. Even if they would have been severly beaten it would not have been a great discredit to the rally.....these things will happen at any emotionally charged meeting of this sort whether its a demonstration or a rock festival. There are alway enough ill behaved people around for this to happen....it even happens in the Thai parliament from time to time. It's really a non-issue in my opinion.

[Jai Dee]

Survey on Valentine's Day indicated that Prime Minister Thaksin is the prime choice amongst famous figures to be given roses to

A survey on Valentine's Day has indicated that most people still place importance on the day, while Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was the prime choice of popular figures people would like to give roses to.

A poll by Ramkhamhaeng University surveyed 1,494 people in Bangkok on the topic of "Love: from young to old age". The poll found that when talking about love, 38.5% of respondents thought of the act of giving roses on the Valentine's Day. 30.4% thought of giving sympathy to living creatures. 23.6% thought of merit-making on the Magha Puja Day, and 7.6% thought of having sex with their loved ones. 70.2% cited their mothers as most lovable, followed by fathers at 52.9%, younger siblings at 15.5%, and elder siblings at 15.3%.

When asked which famous figure they would like to present roses to, 38.3% of respondents cited Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, 22.9% said they would like to give them to Opposition Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva (อภิสิทธิ์ เวชชาชีวะ), 19.5% cited Bangkok Governor Aphirak Kosayothin (อภิรักษ์ โกษะโยธิน), and 19.4% would prefer to hand them to anti-government demonstration leader Sonthi Limthongkul (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล).

Furthermore, 86.1% saw that the display of true love was for people to give knowledge to loved ones in order for them to be capable of sustaining themselves throughout life.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 13 Febuary 2006

[ColPyat]

Even if they would have been severly beaten it would not have been a great discredit to the rally.....

Legitimizing violent actions by people advocating democracy against people who have exercised their democratic right to disagree in a peaceful manner?

Sounds truly democratic...

[Bryan in Isaan]

Protesters call for Thai PM to quit, but rally turnout low

15,000 demonstrators down from 50,000 at the royal square a week ago

Make that 100,000 last week, and a good turnout this time also, despite many protesters being turned away by the police again.

But the low turnout is likely to be seen as indication that the anti-government movement is losing steam.

Repeat after Me : I believe everything I am told on government-controlled TV

Meanwhile, several pro-Thaksin rallies were held in the country's rural north and northeast, drawing several thousand people at each.

At our local one, the inducement was rumoured to be a free song-thaew ride into Chiang-Mai, 100 Baht in cash, and a free meal afterwards. Having driven past during the meeting, it looked sparsely-attended, to me. Perhaps because the payment is going down ?

As someone told me, who had been at last Saturday's rally, "We all go for free, and pay our own travel-costs, because we hate Thaksin. He has to pay people to go, or give away free cars & houses & money."

2006-02-12 AFP

What?!? only 100 baht?? Sondhi pays much better. A couple of relatives got paid well over 1000B and a ride to Khon Kaen from Kalasin. One of them got cold feet and came home, he had been told by the recruiter that he was going to a political meeting, not a protest. The other relative is continuing to travel with Sondhi's road show and making quite a good living. Good work if you can get it. Remember the footage of the 200 "anti-Thaksin" protestors from Kalasin? That was them. The regional organizers - those recruiting Mr. Sondhi's "anti-Thaksin" protesters from the villages are getting paid much, much more than that.

I would guess that Mr. Sondhi's group needs to create the appearance that he has supporters in Isaan, "grassroots supporters", as PM Thaksin has, and thus can put together these little paid "tours" to create TV footage. Propaganda.

Granted, I don't have all the details behind this, and who exactly is bankrolling all these "protestors", but it may be that both sides occasionally engage in this practice. TIT.

Bryan

Edited February 13, 2006 by Bryan in Isaan

[chownah]

Even if they would have been severly beaten it would not have been a great discredit to the rally.....

Legitimizing violent actions by people advocating democracy against people who have exercised their democratic right to disagree in a peaceful manner?

Sounds truly democratic...

I'm not legitimizing anything....I thought I clearly stated that it is my belief that any large emotionally charged gathering would have enough ill behaved people in the crowd who would want to react violently to people who are foolish enough to show up and blatantly show opposition to what is going on. This should not discredit the rally...it does discredit the people who act rudly and violently....a few bad people should not be used to discredit the hugely vast majority of the people there who were determined to meet peacefully. Perhaps I wasn't clear before....I hope I've clarified my feelilngs somewhat.

I also do want to make it perfectly clear that I think that anyone going to the rally and making blatant statements in support of Toxin was acting foolishly at best and was trying to provoke violence otherwise....never mind free speach....large emotionally charged gatherings tend to bring out the bully in many....you may get some free speach in but you should expect that there will be some there who will express themselves physically against you.....I don't condone it but it is a fact of life....at least from what I have observed in life.

[tettyan]

I would guess that Mr. Sondhi's group needs to create the appearance that he has supporters in Isaan, "grassroots supporters", as PM Thaksin has, and thus can put together these little paid "tours".

Granted, I don't have all the details behind this, and who exactly is bankrolling all these "protestors", but it may be that both sides occasionally engage in this practice. TIT.

Bryan

Interesting. I really wonder who is bankrolling all this. As far as I know, Sondhi's company is still "under rehabilitation" according to the Stock Exchange of Thailand, though I remember he formally exited bankruptcy 2-3 years back. Anyone out there have any ideas?

[Butterfly]

I wouldn't be surprised if PICNIC was paying the bills

Sondhi is a fraud and a right wing nationalist. No wonder his petition to the King are going nowhere. He is not being taken seriously by the institutions.

[Bryan in Isaan]

I would guess that Mr. Sondhi's group needs to create the appearance that he has supporters in Isaan, "grassroots supporters", as PM Thaksin has, and thus can put together these little paid "tours".

Granted, I don't have all the details behind this, and who exactly is bankrolling all these "protestors", but it may be that both sides occasionally engage in this practice. TIT.

Bryan

Interesting. I really wonder who is bankrolling all this. As far as I know, Sondhi's company is still "under rehabilitation" according to the Stock Exchange of Thailand, though I remember he formally exited bankruptcy 2-3 years back. Anyone out there have any ideas?

I don't have the answer, but the amounts would be relatively small, maybe a few million for a protestor group like those from Kalasin. So, a few TV spots like this from either side would be cheap. As a previous poster said "the opposition is not monolithic". Neither side is. Support could be coming from anywhere.

Bryan

[chownah]

It's all Thai politics and all the people running Thai politics have money....or....I should say that their families all have money because the first thing you do when you officially enter politics is to transfer all your wealth to your family....that solves the conflict of interest problem. Any wealthy Thai person who goes through bankruptcy hides their wealth first and then shrugs their shoulders at their creditors. I personally know of a Thai educator who is from a wealthy Thai political family and he has no money of his own but his wife owns a house in Bangkok and his sister has a really nice one in Nong Khai and the last time I saw him he said he was going to build a house of his own.....but he doesn't have a job that pays him...so where is the money coming from? its all a scam....that's why it doesn't phase me that Toxin is doing it...they ALL do it.

[sriracha john]

Hello everyone. Just got back from camping for 3 days. Did I miss anything from Friday onwards?

[Heng]

Any wealthy Thai person who goes through bankruptcy hides their wealth first and then shrugs their shoulders at their creditors. snip ...so where is the money coming from? snip

There are a legion of lawyers in the US that help folks go through Chapter 11 (I often confuse Chapter 7 and Chapter 11... whichever one is for normal folks) who do EXACTLY the same thing.

As for where the dosh is coming from.... gong sri. Family funds and high rates of savings from all family members, both well to do and not. When you want to make a capital purchase or make an investment, you go to the family bank first. It beats paying interest to other folks. It's an alien concept to many foreign folks.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Heng

[Jai Dee]

Thai Rak Thai party will hold a special meeting today to find ways to respond to protest leaders.

Thai Rak Thai party prepares a special meeting to find ways to respond to speeches made by protest leaders, while legal experts have been instructed to watch tapes of speeches made on February 4 and 11, before lawsuits are filed.

Deputy spokesperson of the Thai Rak Thai party, Pimuk Simaroj (ภิมุข สิมะโรจน์) said that the meeting today is a special meeting, as MPs from the provinces, who have heard about the speeches attacking Prime Minister Thaksin Shinnawat by protest leaders, were upset about the speeches and want to discuss with other members about the issue. He said that the MPs want to find out facts so that they can inform locals in their constituencies, adding that if the charges are not true, the party can find appropriate response to those insults.

Meanwhile, Thai Rak Thai party’s legal expert and MP Wichit Plangsrikul (วิชิต ปลั่งศรีสกุล) revealed that the legal experts are reviewing tapes of Mr. Sondhi Limthorngkul’s (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) speeches on February 4 and 11, before filing lawsuits on all cases that Mr. Sondhi mentioned. He said that the hostile remarks tarnished the image of the party and the premier.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 Febuary 2006

[Jai Dee]

PM prolongs political game by playing golf

Army Commander-in-Chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratakalin, left, and Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra appear to have put politics and their cares behind them as they play golf at the Lakewood golf course on the Bang Na-Trat highway.

Embattled Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday denied there was any political significance behind the surprise round of golf he played with the military top brass, despite perceptions by political observers that it may have been designed to shore up his sagging political standing.

“There is no special political significance,” Thaksin told newsmen at the Lakewood golf course on the Bang Na-Trat highway. “The armed forces commanders had asked to play a round of golf, and so, since we are all free today, we decided to get together to do it. The various ministers are here just to help entertain the [military] guests.”

All the senior top brass were present, including Supreme Commander Gen Ruangroj Mahasaranont, Army Commander-in-Chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratakalin, Navy Commander-in-Chief Admiral Sathiraphan Keyanont, Air Force Commander-in-Chief ACM Chalit Pukpasuk and National Police Chief Pol Gen Kovit Watthana. Among the ministers present were Defense Minister Gen Thammarak Isarangura Na Ayutthaya and Transport Minister Pongsak Raktapongpaisal.

Thaksin said that there was no discussion with the military commanders yesterday on a Cabinet reshuffle, but he added that a large-scale reshuffle would likely take place after the Senate elections in April.

The looming round of Cabinet changes has been ostensibly prompted by the recent resignations of Culture Minister Uraiwan Thienthong and Information and Communication Technology Minister Sora-at Klinpratoom.

Commenting on mounting calls by political and activist groups for constitutional amendments to usher in a new round of political reforms, Thaksin said the government is willing to initiate constitutional changes if the majority of the people wish it.

The government’s latest game plan is to assign the Election Commission to use the same occasion of the Senate election in April to gauge public opinion on constitutional changes. Voters will be asked, on top of choosing their senators, whether they wish to amend the constitution.

Thaksin said the form will have just one question: whether the voter wants the charter to be amended. “If most people say they want to change [the charter], we will have to oblige. That will then kick-start the process of addressing which articles of the constitution should be amended, how and by whom. But first, we have to ask the basic question,” Thaksin said.

Asked how long the process will take, Thaksin said the process can begin right away if there is a national consensus to amend the charter.

The prime minister is scheduled to chair a special Thai Rak Thai party meeting today, at which he is expected to clarify to party members the accusations that have been hurled at him over the past week, as well as the mounting calls for him to step down. He will also likely tell party members to visit constituents, to ensure continuing support for the government at the grassroots levels.

Source: ThaiDay - 14 February 2006

[chownah]

PM prolongs political game by playing golf

".........................

Thaksin said the form will have just one question: whether the voter wants the charter to be amended. “If most people say they want to change [the charter], we will have to oblige. That will then kick-start the process of addressing which articles of the constitution should be amended, how and by whom. But first, we have to ask the basic question,” Thaksin said.

...................."

Source: ThaiDay - 14 February 2006

Wasn't it Ijustwannateach that predicted this 4 or 6 days ago.....I think it was but whoever it was GOOD WORK....I think you should get the Thaivisa Prognosticator of the week award!!!!!

[tettyan]

Any wealthy Thai person who goes through bankruptcy hides their wealth first and then shrugs their shoulders at their creditors. snip ...so where is the money coming from? snip

There are a legion of lawyers in the US that help folks go through Chapter 11 (I often confuse Chapter 7 and Chapter 11... whichever one is for normal folks) who do EXACTLY the same thing.

As for where the dosh is coming from.... gong sri. Family funds and high rates of savings from all family members, both well to do and not. When you want to make a capital purchase or make an investment, you go to the family bank first. It beats paying interest to other folks. It's an alien concept to many foreign folks.

What you say kind of proves my point to an extent. In the US and other developed countries, the rule of law prevails - people settle their disputes in court. Yes, bankrupt companies will hire an army of lawyers, but the creditors have an army of lawyers too. The system isn't perfect, but at least each side has a fair opportunity to present their case, and they can expect a decision from a judge who has no personal stake in the case. In Thailand, this is anything but so. Whoever has the better business or political connections always wins the day. So no, what happens here is NOT exactly the same thing as in the US, as you claim. If Thailand is ever to develop beyond the level of Latin America (it's not even that far yet), the country is going to need more rational-legal administration and ways of settling disputes.

You mention the role of gong sri (関係 - guanxi in Mandarin) in Thai finance. Quite frankly, guanxi (connections) is a rather euphamistic way of putting it. From a more cynical perspective, it's just plain, simple cronyism.

Edited February 14, 2006 by tettyan

[Heng]

Any wealthy Thai person who goes through bankruptcy hides their wealth first and then shrugs their shoulders at their creditors. snip ...so where is the money coming from? snip

There are a legion of lawyers in the US that help folks go through Chapter 11 (I often confuse Chapter 7 and Chapter 11... whichever one is for normal folks) who do EXACTLY the same thing.

As for where the dosh is coming from.... gong sri. Family funds and high rates of savings from all family members, both well to do and not. When you want to make a capital purchase or make an investment, you go to the family bank first. It beats paying interest to other folks. It's an alien concept to many foreign folks.

What you say kind of proves my point to an extent. In the US and other developed countries, the rule of law prevails - people settle their disputes in court. Yes, bankrupt companies will hire an army of lawyers, but the creditors have an army of lawyers too. The system isn't perfect, but at least each side has a fair opportunity to present their case, and they can expect a decision from a judge who has no personal stake in the case. In Thailand, this is anything but so. Whoever has the better business or political connections always wins the day. So no, what happens here is NOT exactly the same thing as in the US, as you claim. If Thailand is ever to develop beyond the level of Latin America (it's not even that far yet), the country is going to need more rational-legal administration and ways of settling disputes.

You mention the role of gong sri (関係 - guanxi in Mandarin) in Thai finance. Quite frankly, guanxi (connections) is a rather euphamistic way of putting it. From a more cynical perspective, it's just plain, simple cronyism.

I'm talking about individuals filing for bankruptcy. And yes, assets are hidden first, then bankruptcy is declared, when the creditors come a' collecting, it's already too late. And yes, it's the same as what's done in the US as I've known more than a few who have done it.

As for gong sri, you're confusing two entirely different concepts, perhaps just because they sound slightly similar (in different languages). Gong sri refers to family funds pooled together. It's one of the reason why some people may appear to be living beyond their means, but actually still well within the means of the pooled family assets.

[bulmercke]

Yep....in business here, and most other matters, the Thais make up the rules as they go along.

That is those Thais, as mentioned in an earlier post, that have the most financial and political clout.

BANANA REPUBLIC......the place's a "game".......

[sriracha john]

PM prolongs political game by playing golf

".........................

Thaksin said the form will have just one question: whether the voter wants the charter to be amended. “If most people say they want to change [the charter], we will have to oblige. That will then kick-start the process of addressing which articles of the constitution should be amended, how and by whom. But first, we have to ask the basic question,” Thaksin said.

...................."

Source: ThaiDay - 14 February 2006

Wasn't it Ijustwannateach that predicted this 4 or 6 days ago.....I think it was but whoever it was GOOD WORK....I think you should get the Thaivisa Prognosticator of the week award!!!!!

As are many things in Thailand... Easy Come, Easy Go.....

Sorry, but he'll have to hand back that award now...

Govt drops idea for a referendum

Too complex and not necessary, says Visanu

The government has decided to drop Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's proposal that a referendum be held on whether the constitution should be amended, Deputy Prime Minister Visanu Krue-ngam said yesterday. The reason was the government wanted to have it on April 19, the same day as the Senate election.

But having it that day fails to satisfy a constitutional requirement which specifies a 90-day lead-up to a referendum.

Instead, he said, the government would come up with another method of gathering opinions from the public, bypassing the method provided by the 1997 Constitution.

- Bangkok Post

[Jai Dee]

Discussion and news updates on the next anti-Thaksin rally continues in this thread.

/Closed.