Another Motocy Accident And Almost One More

[Neeranam]

Cha yen yen.

That's certainly going to confuse an angry Thai and defuse the the situation while it takes him 17 minutes to try and work out what's going on.

I agree - I've actually had some very negative results when telling Thais to calm down(jai yen yen) - they hate being told this by the 'jai ron' foreigners.

[tropo]

Actually, Thai can be translated precisely to English. You mean transliteration or transcription.

Yes, that is what I meant.

(However precise translations of languages are not always possible as one language can express ideas and emotions another language cannot quite grasp. The Bible is a pretty good example where 1000's of language scholars can never agree exactly on how to translate verses and many different versions are in existence. I don't speak Thai, but I can imagine the same type of problems exist)

[Tolley]

Actually, Thai can be translated precisely to English. You mean transliteration or transcription.

Yes, that is what I meant.

(However precise translations of languages are not always possible as one language can express ideas and emotions another language cannot quite grasp. The Bible is a pretty good example where 1000's of language scholars can never agree exactly on how to translate verses and many different versions are in existence. I don't speak Thai, but I can imagine the same type of problems exist)

Agree. It is impossible to translate some things from one language to another because they are culturally specific.

[tropo]

Agree. It is impossible to translate some things from one language to another because they are culturally specific.

Even English speakers from different countries have trouble with certain words and humour.

(Here's a good one. In the Philippines most regional languages don't have a word for "he" or "she", "his" or "hers", "him" or "her". If only English had a word for the Swedish word "siskon", meaning brother or sister)

[guzzi850m2]

This topic is derailed big time, it was about riding a motorbike in Pattaya if I am not mistaken.

[prestburypark]

Agree. It is impossible to translate some things from one language to another because they are culturally specific.

Even English speakers from different countries have trouble with certain words and humour.

(Here's a good one. In the Philippines most regional languages don't have a word for "he" or "she", "his" or "hers", "him" or "her". If only English had a word for the Swedish word "siskon", meaning brother or sister)

It does, sibling.

[tropo]

It does, sibling.

I'm aware of sibling, but it is not the same.

[marshbags]

I am an experienced bike rider and have riden a bike here for 4 years with no accidents (so far). It can get scary at times though even if you ride defensively. The main problem is that thais (and some farangs) are so unpredictable. They pull out of junctions without looking, run red lights, signal left but turn right etc it's probably only a question of time before i get zapped. It would be hard to manage without a bike though as they as so convenient just to get around town (and so cheap).

Firstly, thanks to everyone for their replies.

Chris2004 just about sums up my feelings and concerns.

I start my walk anywhere from 4am to 5am and walk from 2 to 3 hours. With regards to traffic, this is an interesting time of day. While the volume of traffic is low, there are 3 types on the road: Thai people setting up to sell their products larer in the day (some coming from the Naklua market with huge amounts of stuff hanging all over their motocy's), huge Tour buses and Tour Vans (seems like the tour vans are always a little late and speeding a bit) and motocys - some OK but, some with someone driving who is drunk, speeding and erratic.

Although this is not the time of day that I would like to use a motocy, it forms my impression of safety.

The Ruckus - now called Zoomer, was 49cc in the US (had to be under 50cc to use bycicle lane), now, apprently designed and manufactured in Thailand, 110cc.

My real concern, since my use would be very limited, in addition to those mentioned by Chris2004 are the teenagers speeding in and out of traffic, doing wheelies and the occasional motocy going very slowly and you can't figure out what the heck they are doing (texting while they are driving).

Oh, what to do? what to do?

Anyway, thanks again for the replies.

Seems to me you are doing well without the use of a motorbikeT7.

If you ever need to go a short trip there should be several forms of transport readily avialable and cheap without tempting fate accident wise ect.

Like you, I walk for around for longish periods of time and follow a very enjoyable daily routine.

I also have a bicyle that I can use for any ventures out once returning to base and always manage to find an alternative safe route to get from A-B were the traffic is at a minimum and especially in Pattaya there are plenty of off road alternatives.. ( legally )

Exercise if you are able to partake in it fitness wise and is the best investment anyone can make, costs are minimal and can add many quality years to your life.

I M/Bike would take it all away and make you become robotic / zombified and unable to enjoy what we have at present, along with potentially becoming an accident waiting to happen.

A M/Bike can also take many years off life, reduce the quality of what you have now, plus time and convenience wise it can / could also make you a bit lazy were you would normally choose to walk these additional short distances.

People like you and I can also appreciate how it enables us to meet / enjoy an abundance of the social contact we get during our walk about.

Investing in your health is far more important IMHO and going by your OP I reckon you would agree.

So I,d offer the advice to do without and carry on the way you are now and enjoy what you already have.

marshbags

P.S.

I always wear a bicyle helmet, everytime without fail, when I use it.

Edited November 19, 2012 by marshbags

[guzzi850m2]

Seems to me you are doing well without the use of a motorbikeT7.

If you ever need to go a short trip there should be several forms of transport readily avialable and cheap without tempting fate accident wise ect.

Like you, I walk for around for longish periods of time and follow a very enjoyable daily routine.

I also have a bicyle that I can use for any ventures out once returning to base and always manage to find an alternative safe route to get from A-B were the traffic is at a minimum and especially in Pattaya there are plenty of off road alternatives.. ( legal )

Exercise if you are able to partake in it fitness wise and is the best investment anyone can make, costs are minimal and can add many quality years to your life.

I M/Bike would take it all away and make you become robotic / zombified and unable to enjoy what we have at present, along with potentially becoming an accident waiting to happen.

A M/Bike can also take many years off life, reduce the quality of what you have now, plus time and convenience wise it can / could also make you a bit lazy were you would normally choose to walk these additional short distances.

People like you and I can also appreciate how it enables us to meet / enjoy an abundance of the social contact we get during our walk about.

Investing in your health is far more important IMHO and going by your OP I reckon you would agree.

So I,d offer the advice to do without and carry on the way you are now and enjoy what you already have.

marshbags

Yes and no, since I live in a house I have quite a distance down to the beach, so I often take the bike and park somewhere down on Beach road, lock the bike and go walking. Another day I maybe want to walk on Jomtien beach so I take the bike out there and walk. Then I can do some shopping on the way home, perfect.

[Tolley]

I am an experienced bike rider and have riden a bike here for 4 years with no accidents (so far). It can get scary at times though even if you ride defensively. The main problem is that thais (and some farangs) are so unpredictable. They pull out of junctions without looking, run red lights, signal left but turn right etc it's probably only a question of time before i get zapped. It would be hard to manage without a bike though as they as so convenient just to get around town (and so cheap).

Firstly, thanks to everyone for their replies.

Chris2004 just about sums up my feelings and concerns.

I start my walk anywhere from 4am to 5am and walk from 2 to 3 hours. With regards to traffic, this is an interesting time of day. While the volume of traffic is low, there are 3 types on the road: Thai people setting up to sell their products larer in the day (some coming from the Naklua market with huge amounts of stuff hanging all over their motocy's), huge Tour buses and Tour Vans (seems like the tour vans are always a little late and speeding a bit) and motocys - some OK but, some with someone driving who is drunk, speeding and erratic.

Although this is not the time of day that I would like to use a motocy, it forms my impression of safety.

The Ruckus - now called Zoomer, was 49cc in the US (had to be under 50cc to use bycicle lane), now, apprently designed and manufactured in Thailand, 110cc.

My real concern, since my use would be very limited, in addition to those mentioned by Chris2004 are the teenagers speeding in and out of traffic, doing wheelies and the occasional motocy going very slowly and you can't figure out what the heck they are doing (texting while they are driving).

Oh, what to do? what to do?

Anyway, thanks again for the replies.

Seems to me you are doing well without the use of a motorbikeT7.

If you ever need to go a short trip there should be several forms of transport readily avialable and cheap without tempting fate accident wise ect.

Like you, I walk for around for longish periods of time and follow a very enjoyable daily routine.

I also have a bicyle that I can use for any ventures out once returning to base and always manage to find an alternative safe route to get from A-B were the traffic is at a minimum and especially in Pattaya there are plenty of off road alternatives.. ( legally )

Exercise if you are able to partake in it fitness wise and is the best investment anyone can make, costs are minimal and can add many quality years to your life.

I M/Bike would take it all away and make you become robotic / zombified and unable to enjoy what we have at present, along with potentially becoming an accident waiting to happen.

A M/Bike can also take many years off life, reduce the quality of what you have now, plus time and convenience wise it can / could also make you a bit lazy were you would normally choose to walk these additional short distances.

People like you and I can also appreciate how it enables us to meet / enjoy an abundance of the social contact we get during our walk about.

Investing in your health is far more important IMHO and going by your OP I reckon you would agree.

So I,d offer the advice to do without and carry on the way you are now and enjoy what you already have.

marshbags

P.S.

I always wear a bicyle helmet, everytime without fail, when I use it.

I refuse to ride a bike here because of safety reasons but I have to say it is dam_n inconvenient at times.

I can walk to a lot of places but even walking has it hazards especially crossing the road but many places are not easy to get to via a songtaew so if you dont use a bike it is time consuming and difficult to get to many places here.

[Rimmer]

A couple of off topic posts removed

[tropo]

Seems to me you are doing well without the use of a motorbikeT7.

If you ever need to go a short trip there should be several forms of transport readily avialable and cheap without tempting fate accident wise ect.

Like you, I walk for around for longish periods of time and follow a very enjoyable daily routine.

I also have a bicyle that I can use for any ventures out once returning to base and always manage to find an alternative safe route to get from A-B were the traffic is at a minimum and especially in Pattaya there are plenty of off road alternatives.. ( legally )

Exercise if you are able to partake in it fitness wise and is the best investment anyone can make, costs are minimal and can add many quality years to your life.

I M/Bike would take it all away and make you become robotic / zombified and unable to enjoy what we have at present, along with potentially becoming an accident waiting to happen.

A M/Bike can also take many years off life, reduce the quality of what you have now, plus time and convenience wise it can / could also make you a bit lazy were you would normally choose to walk these additional short distances.

People like you and I can also appreciate how it enables us to meet / enjoy an abundance of the social contact we get during our walk about.

Investing in your health is far more important IMHO and going by your OP I reckon you would agree.

So I,d offer the advice to do without and carry on the way you are now and enjoy what you already have.

marshbags

P.S.

I always wear a bicyle helmet, everytime without fail, when I use it.

That's a very dramatic assessment of motorcycle use.

A bicycle in Pattaya would be many times more dangerous than riding a motorcycle. I would never consider it a good form of exercise because of the dangers and pollution. As a way of getting around it's a non-starter.

I'm not lazy, but don't like walking just to get somewhere. I use a motorcycle to go to the gym, for example. It enhances my lifestyle.

[tropo]

I refuse to ride a bike here because of safety reasons but I have to say it is dam_n inconvenient at times.

I can walk to a lot of places but even walking has it hazards especially crossing the road but many places are not easy to get to via a songtaew so if you dont use a bike it is time consuming and difficult to get to many places here.

My landlord had an accident on his motorcycle last December. He totally messed up his knee (actually the surgeons did, but that's another story) and he vowed to never ride a motorcycle again. Let's see how long he keeps his vow. He's already saying that the traffic is worse than it has ever been. I told him that is to be expected if you're driving a car. If you're living in Central Pattaya a car is just impossible unless you're extremely patient.

To me a scooter is one of the risks I take want to live in Pattaya. If I couldn't use one I would be better off leaving. I take my hats off to people like you and Jingthing who must have the patience of saints. At least fully automatic scooters make it a lot safer than real motorcycles.

Edited November 19, 2012 by tropo

[Tiger7Moth]

This topic is derailed big time, it was about riding a motorbike in Pattaya if I am not mistaken.

I find thaivisa to be a great resource. Sadly, all too often people have their personal agendas and the topic discussion gets lost. My other personal disappointment with thaivisa is that a couple of participants will get involved in a personal conversation which could be handled by PMs.

But, it's not a perfect world and all in all, thaivisa is excellent.

[tropo]

This topic is derailed big time, it was about riding a motorbike in Pattaya if I am not mistaken.

I find thaivisa to be a great resource. Sadly, all too often people have their personal agendas and the topic discussion gets lost. My other personal disappointment with thaivisa is that a couple of participants will get involved in a personal conversation which could be handled by PMs.

But, it's not a perfect world and all in all, thaivisa is excellent.

LOL...If you think about it, your post here and the one you're replying to is doing the same thing you're complaining about - derailing the topic.

Internet forums are like this. There's no need to cry about it. Just ignore posts that upset you and stay on topic.

[antpet]

As a trained and very experienced motorcyclist [owner of large bikes]. European Tour rider and Advanced qualified I feel able to comment on riding botth in Pattaya and Thailand.

Having been a resident of Pattaya for many years I never rode a motorcycle there. The reason was that it was simply unsafe. Thais have their own approach to riding and great tollerance of what we would perceive to be errors, arrogance and intimidation by other road users. The commonly accepted norms of not going against the flow of traffic, under taking, u-turning, cutting in, are not applied here.

Hence, you are at risk, unable to predict actions logically and also the effect of defensive riding is diminished. Frankly, you are an accident waiting to happen and in pattaya they come along like taxis: don't worry, you'll see another in a minute. Add to the mix that motorcyclists do not wear protective clothing, shoes, gloves or helmets. The plastic bowls sold as 'helmets' meet no safety standards.

You only need to look at the knees of any bar girl to see a road map of scars acquired since she was a child. Worse, there are terrible and hideous injuries to be seen quite commonly. Beyond that there are the corpses. Most worryingly is the lack of medical response. Well meaming Thais throwing you [literally] into a pick up following an accident without applyinga neck brace or carrying out a simple examination - remember, they don't spek your language adequately to ask 'where does it hurt?' - lweaves you at risk of paralysis and most definately a worsenning of the original injury.

Financially, you are vulnerable because the Thai attitude to an accident is to seek compensation immediately. The Police also respond in this manner and demand that you pay on the spot. This is despite you being the victim and not at fault.

Just to add the anecdotal examples to the full, i have known farangs killed through no fault of their own; brain damaged survivors; crippled survivors; walk away wounded; lucky unhurt.

You can not expect to be able to avoid injury when motorists do not have licenses; have never recieved training; are under age; are drunk; are on drugs; are simply incapable of ever ridinga motorbike safely.

Just to cheer you up further .................... I was once walking on a deserted Pattaya Soi. In the distance a motorcycle appeared heading at speed, say 70 kph, towards me. The underage 15 year old girl, panicked, lost control of the bike, fell off, yet the bike continued upright. It was coming straight at me. I chose to step to my left and the bike veered marginally to the right. It missed me by inches yet threw a hail of grit over me as it smashed into a tree.

The Polcie arrived and asked for 10 k baht. I called a lawyer. Two arrived. Despite this I was to be detained at the police station unless I paid compensation to the girl. A girl who got the bike the day before and had crashed it already. She was simply unfit to ride a motorbike. I paid 3k baht to avoid being locked up for taking a walk and witnessing the accident.

That is Pattaya.

Out of there and in the quieter regions known as 'up country' it is a marginally different matter. The roads are empty due to the rural poor not owning vehicles to any extent. Driving is safer due to reduced vehicles. Here I use a motor bike, tour and travel at a speed that can still negotiate and react to pot holes, emerging animals, slow moving farm trucks and the genrally poor driving seen everywhere. Defensive riding is much more effective due to reduced volumes of vehicles at all times.

In all honesty, ask yourself when you see good driving. If you can not assess that, then you should not be driving full stop. In my case I do not see the simple mirror, single, manouvre operation used by other road users. It is as basic as that. And without the most simplistic of methods being applied then the chances of accident are multiplied disproportionately.

You can not ride / drive and avoid these people. You are out numbered by them. The argument that speed can save you is an erroneous one as the fact is it will simply propel you towards a greater injury.

The general lack of standards and application of the law that prompts people to ask ' I can't ride a bike - should I get one?' deserves ridicule. By all means, go ahead. But accept the consequences. My good freind was wiped out - dead by broken neck - when a car emerged from a 'T' junction without stopping first. He never knew what hit him. Dead at 42. He'd popped out to Tops for some fried fish for dinner. Dead before he reached Sukhumvit Rd. The car driver wasn't drunk or drugged but he was Thai, without a licence and without due care.

He said that if the foreigner hadn't come to Thailand it wouldn't have happened. His own fault then.

[robblok]

I refuse to ride a bike here because of safety reasons but I have to say it is dam_n inconvenient at times.

I can walk to a lot of places but even walking has it hazards especially crossing the road but many places are not easy to get to via a songtaew so if you dont use a bike it is time consuming and difficult to get to many places here.

My landlord had an accident on his motorcycle last December. He totally messed up his knee (actually the surgeons did, but that's another story) and he vowed to never ride a motorcycle again. Let's see how long he keeps his vow. He's already saying that the traffic is worse than it has ever been. I told him that is to be expected if you're driving a car. If you're living in Central Pattaya a car is just impossible unless you're extremely patient.

To me a scooter is one of the risks I take want to live in Pattaya. If I couldn't use one I would be better off leaving. I take my hats off to people like you and Jingthing who must have the patience of saints. At least fully automatic scooters make it a lot safer than real motorcycles.

I agree 100% its a risk that makes life in Thailand better. I know there is a risk, but there is a risk with everything we do.

You have to decide for yourself if its worth the risk. To me it certainly is and i don't tink its a huge risk. This can of course be debated.

I take the car when needed like when i go to Makro or shops like that. The bike for when its busy.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App

[Tolley]

As a trained and very experienced motorcyclist [owner of large bikes]. European Tour rider and Advanced qualified I feel able to comment on riding botth in Pattaya and Thailand.

Having been a resident of Pattaya for many years I never rode a motorcycle there. The reason was that it was simply unsafe. Thais have their own approach to riding and great tollerance of what we would perceive to be errors, arrogance and intimidation by other road users. The commonly accepted norms of not going against the flow of traffic, under taking, u-turning, cutting in, are not applied here.

Hence, you are at risk, unable to predict actions logically and also the effect of defensive riding is diminished. Frankly, you are an accident waiting to happen and in pattaya they come along like taxis: don't worry, you'll see another in a minute. Add to the mix that motorcyclists do not wear protective clothing, shoes, gloves or helmets. The plastic bowls sold as 'helmets' meet no safety standards.

You only need to look at the knees of any bar girl to see a road map of scars acquired since she was a child. Worse, there are terrible and hideous injuries to be seen quite commonly. Beyond that there are the corpses. Most worryingly is the lack of medical response. Well meaming Thais throwing you [literally] into a pick up following an accident without applyinga neck brace or carrying out a simple examination - remember, they don't spek your language adequately to ask 'where does it hurt?' - lweaves you at risk of paralysis and most definately a worsenning of the original injury.

Financially, you are vulnerable because the Thai attitude to an accident is to seek compensation immediately. The Police also respond in this manner and demand that you pay on the spot. This is despite you being the victim and not at fault.

Just to add the anecdotal examples to the full, i have known farangs killed through no fault of their own; brain damaged survivors; crippled survivors; walk away wounded; lucky unhurt.

You can not expect to be able to avoid injury when motorists do not have licenses; have never recieved training; are under age; are drunk; are on drugs; are simply incapable of ever ridinga motorbike safely.

Just to cheer you up further .................... I was once walking on a deserted Pattaya Soi. In the distance a motorcycle appeared heading at speed, say 70 kph, towards me. The underage 15 year old girl, panicked, lost control of the bike, fell off, yet the bike continued upright. It was coming straight at me. I chose to step to my left and the bike veered marginally to the right. It missed me by inches yet threw a hail of grit over me as it smashed into a tree.

The Polcie arrived and asked for 10 k baht. I called a lawyer. Two arrived. Despite this I was to be detained at the police station unless I paid compensation to the girl. A girl who got the bike the day before and had crashed it already. She was simply unfit to ride a motorbike. I paid 3k baht to avoid being locked up for taking a walk and witnessing the accident.

That is Pattaya.

Out of there and in the quieter regions known as 'up country' it is a marginally different matter. The roads are empty due to the rural poor not owning vehicles to any extent. Driving is safer due to reduced vehicles. Here I use a motor bike, tour and travel at a speed that can still negotiate and react to pot holes, emerging animals, slow moving farm trucks and the genrally poor driving seen everywhere. Defensive riding is much more effective due to reduced volumes of vehicles at all times.

In all honesty, ask yourself when you see good driving. If you can not assess that, then you should not be driving full stop. In my case I do not see the simple mirror, single, manouvre operation used by other road users. It is as basic as that. And without the most simplistic of methods being applied then the chances of accident are multiplied disproportionately.

You can not ride / drive and avoid these people. You are out numbered by them. The argument that speed can save you is an erroneous one as the fact is it will simply propel you towards a greater injury.

The general lack of standards and application of the law that prompts people to ask ' I can't ride a bike - should I get one?' deserves ridicule. By all means, go ahead. But accept the consequences. My good freind was wiped out - dead by broken neck - when a car emerged from a 'T' junction without stopping first. He never knew what hit him. Dead at 42. He'd popped out to Tops for some fried fish for dinner. Dead before he reached Sukhumvit Rd. The car driver wasn't drunk or drugged but he was Thai, without a licence and without due care.

He said that if the foreigner hadn't come to Thailand it wouldn't have happened. His own fault then.

That pretty well sums up why I dont ride a motorcycle here but it still is dam_n inconvenient.

I drove in Saudi Arabia for many years where it is extremely dangerous to drive but at least there I had a big wheel drive vehicle. You have no protection on a MC here. Further if you survive an accident the medical bills could be huge.

[guzzi850m2]

I enjoy my daily ride(s), sometimes I just go for a ride if I am bored and need some fresh air.

I never go fast towntown Pattaya, it's to risky, if as an example: the van you are overtaking on Beach/second road suddenly stops if might well because somebody is crossing the road and they might well pop out in front of the van and if you are going fast, bang, you have an accident and the list goes on.

Some posters here are not comfortable riding a bike, okay then don't do it then, drive a car (don't get run over by a 18 wheeler, the car won't save you), take a taxi (hope he is not drunk or drive like a mad), walk, stay home all the time (boring).

As tropo & robblok also mention, it's a risk worth taking, like living your life, it's one long list of events that are more or less risky and it's of course your choice which ones you choose, but sometime your number is up.

I sold my Harley when my son was one year old and before my wife got pregnant, we rode all over Thailand on it. Riding long distances on it at 120-140 km/h was great but quite risky and the chance of getting killed/badly injured out on the highway was a risk I not longer could justify when my son was born so the Harley had to go, but both my wife and I are still riding around Pattaya on our small bikes but the speed is much lower now.

[Tiger7Moth]

As a trained and very experienced motorcyclist [owner of large bikes]. European Tour rider and Advanced qualified I feel able to comment on riding botth in Pattaya and Thailand.

Having been a resident of Pattaya for many years I never rode a motorcycle there. The reason was that it was simply unsafe. Thais have their own approach to riding and great tollerance of what we would perceive to be errors, arrogance and intimidation by other road users. The commonly accepted norms of not going against the flow of traffic, under taking, u-turning, cutting in, are not applied here.

Hence, you are at risk, unable to predict actions logically and also the effect of defensive riding is diminished. Frankly, you are an accident waiting to happen and in pattaya they come along like taxis: don't worry, you'll see another in a minute. Add to the mix that motorcyclists do not wear protective clothing, shoes, gloves or helmets. The plastic bowls sold as 'helmets' meet no safety standards.

You only need to look at the knees of any bar girl to see a road map of scars acquired since she was a child. Worse, there are terrible and hideous injuries to be seen quite commonly. Beyond that there are the corpses. Most worryingly is the lack of medical response. Well meaming Thais throwing you [literally] into a pick up following an accident without applyinga neck brace or carrying out a simple examination - remember, they don't spek your language adequately to ask 'where does it hurt?' - lweaves you at risk of paralysis and most definately a worsenning of the original injury.

Financially, you are vulnerable because the Thai attitude to an accident is to seek compensation immediately. The Police also respond in this manner and demand that you pay on the spot. This is despite you being the victim and not at fault.

Just to add the anecdotal examples to the full, i have known farangs killed through no fault of their own; brain damaged survivors; crippled survivors; walk away wounded; lucky unhurt.

You can not expect to be able to avoid injury when motorists do not have licenses; have never recieved training; are under age; are drunk; are on drugs; are simply incapable of ever ridinga motorbike safely.

Just to cheer you up further .................... I was once walking on a deserted Pattaya Soi. In the distance a motorcycle appeared heading at speed, say 70 kph, towards me. The underage 15 year old girl, panicked, lost control of the bike, fell off, yet the bike continued upright. It was coming straight at me. I chose to step to my left and the bike veered marginally to the right. It missed me by inches yet threw a hail of grit over me as it smashed into a tree.

The Polcie arrived and asked for 10 k baht. I called a lawyer. Two arrived. Despite this I was to be detained at the police station unless I paid compensation to the girl. A girl who got the bike the day before and had crashed it already. She was simply unfit to ride a motorbike. I paid 3k baht to avoid being locked up for taking a walk and witnessing the accident.

That is Pattaya.

Out of there and in the quieter regions known as 'up country' it is a marginally different matter. The roads are empty due to the rural poor not owning vehicles to any extent. Driving is safer due to reduced vehicles. Here I use a motor bike, tour and travel at a speed that can still negotiate and react to pot holes, emerging animals, slow moving farm trucks and the genrally poor driving seen everywhere. Defensive riding is much more effective due to reduced volumes of vehicles at all times.

In all honesty, ask yourself when you see good driving. If you can not assess that, then you should not be driving full stop. In my case I do not see the simple mirror, single, manouvre operation used by other road users. It is as basic as that. And without the most simplistic of methods being applied then the chances of accident are multiplied disproportionately.

You can not ride / drive and avoid these people. You are out numbered by them. The argument that speed can save you is an erroneous one as the fact is it will simply propel you towards a greater injury.

The general lack of standards and application of the law that prompts people to ask ' I can't ride a bike - should I get one?' deserves ridicule. By all means, go ahead. But accept the consequences. My good freind was wiped out - dead by broken neck - when a car emerged from a 'T' junction without stopping first. He never knew what hit him. Dead at 42. He'd popped out to Tops for some fried fish for dinner. Dead before he reached Sukhumvit Rd. The car driver wasn't drunk or drugged but he was Thai, without a licence and without due care.

He said that if the foreigner hadn't come to Thailand it wouldn't have happened. His own fault then.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a comphrehensive, informative reply.

[marshbags]

That's a very dramatic assessment of motorcycle use.

A bicycle in Pattaya would be many times more dangerous than riding a motorcycle. I would never consider it a good form of exercise because of the dangers and pollution. As a way of getting around it's a non-starter.

I'm not lazy, but don't like walking just to get somewhere. I use a motorcycle to go to the gym, for example. It enhances my lifestyle.

Each to his own preferred lifestyle and the following is just mentioning what I have as an occasional alternative to walking.

" I also have a bicyle that I can use for any ventures out once returning to base and always manage to find an alternative safe route to get from A-B were the traffic is at a minimum and especially in Pattaya there are plenty of off road alternatives.. ( legally ) "

Regarding Pattaya,s enviroment, pollution exposure and safety / dangers ect.. this can apply to most countries around the planet, with some really bad in all ways.

I specifically mention I always find the more bicycle friendly routes and as for the other issues several posters highlight, no matter what your preferred way of getting from A-B is, all who stay in Pattaya are just as likely to be one of the unlucky ones involved in an accident, walking, running, bicycle. M.Bike vehicle ect. ect. and we all breath the same air in while out and about.

In my personal experience and I touch wood when typing this, I am always aware of my surroundings and potential hazards and while it doesn,t mean you are completely free of the discussed issues, it certainly helps to be so.

The MBike accident statistics speak volumes for safety on the roads and speak for themselves without being assesed as dramatic.

If anyone doubts this I recommend a visit to the poice station and a see for yourself what are just a portion of the collateral damage the m.bikes have suffered.

If you have more time take a look at the posted statistics re Injuries / deaths and how many accidents in recent times, it really brings it home how dangerous life is on the roads can be.

Like I mention Pattaya is not alone, just be vigilant and if you are walking look left right left right continually if you cross the Roads and Soi's until you reach the other side.

Never try to outrun the traffic either, wait until it is safe to cross all you new comers.

Not forgettting the crazy no brainers who use the public walkways as a convenient M.Bike short cut ect. ect and DGAF about pedestrians..

marshbags

[tropo]

The MBike accident statistics speak volumes for safety on the roads and speak for themselves without being assesed as dramatic.

If anyone doubts this I recommend a visit to the poice station and a see for yourself what are just a portion of the collateral damage the m.bikes have suffered.

If you have more time take a look at the posted statistics re Injuries / deaths and how many accidents in recent times, it really brings it home how dangerous life is on the roads can be.

What posted stats are you talking about? The closest to stats on motorcycle accidents I see are people on here talking about how dangerous it seems to be after witnessing the odd accident here and there.

As a person who travels about 6 - 7000 km per year on roads primarily in the Central Pattaya region I see quite a bit and I've always been amazed at how few accidents there are as a percentage of people riding bikes. You won't find many places with such a high percentage of residents riding motorcycle. I'd be interested in seeing stats on how many motorcycles are registered in Pattaya. No one takes into consideration the number of riders here.

[marshbags]

The last time I visited the poice station they were displayed on a board and this is what i was referring to.

No problem with your views on safety ect. from your personal experiences.

I of course differ in some areas and no problem either.

At the end of the day safety is the most important issue here.

Over several years I cannot say accidents are isolated because they are not.

Th unreported accidents from minor to more serious ones I have witnessed are mostly down to drunks, drugs and reckless driving and lack of basic road sense / education.

Showing care and being safety conscious hopefully improves the odds of becoming a statistic anonymous or otherwise.

I,ve part copied the following interview from the Pattaya Mail road safety day which provided the following advice on Road Safety

Quote

However, as we all know from accident statistics, the problems to be met are greater than can be countered in one day with the local motorcyclists. The Pattaya Traffic Police understand these problems too and are trying to develop a "pro-active" role in this area.

Pattaya Mail reporters talked with Police Major Pramote Ngarmpradit, a Supervising Inspector with the Pattaya Traffic Police who said that fewer road accidents would occur in Pattaya if both Thais and foreigners would obey the laws.

"We are charged with ensuring road safety for both Thais and foreigners," said Major Pramote. "Road safety does not mean cleaning up the mess and arbitrating in arguments of apportioning blame after the accident. Our job includes enforcing laws which prevent accidents."

"Many people, both Thai and foreign, seem to think that crash helmets are unimportant. This is a serious mistake and we are becoming stricter about levying fines on those motorcyclists not wearing helmets," the Major continued.

"Tourists in Pattaya for short visits seem to know the importance of helmets, as the laws are stringently enforced in their own countries.

But Thais and foreigners who live in Pattaya seem to be the main offenders," he said.

"We have many more traffic signs in both English and Thai now, but there should be more. Pattaya has more than 40 traffic police on duty at any one time but this is still not an efficient number of officers, as Pattaya has a relatively small population, but a large area with many roads. The city also operates on a 24 hour basis," he continued.

When asked about how to avoid accidents, Major Pramote was very definite, "I hope people know the main causes of accidents are not vehicle malfunction, faulty roads, or lack of signs. The main reason for over 90% of accidents is due to careless and reckless driving. Driving while intoxicated is the largest cause of the above. If everyone realized that statistically, improper use of motor vehicles causes more deaths than firearms, maybe they would be more careful when driving."

A salutary lesson for us all.

Unquote

marshbags

[simple1]

The last time I visited the poice station they were displayed on a board and this is what i was referring to.

No problem with your views on safety ect. from your personal experiences.

I of course differ in some areas and no problem either.

At the end of the day safety is the most important issue here.

Over several years I cannot say accidents are isolated because they are not.

Th unreported accidents from minor to more serious ones I have witnessed are mostly down to drunks, drugs and reckless driving and lack of basic road sense / education.

Showing care and being safety conscious hopefully improves the odds of becoming a statistic anonymous or otherwise.

I,ve part copied the following interview from the Pattaya Mail road safety day which provided the following advice on Road Safety

Quote

However, as we all know from accident statistics, the problems to be met are greater than can be countered in one day with the local motorcyclists. The Pattaya Traffic Police understand these problems too and are trying to develop a "pro-active" role in this area.

Pattaya Mail reporters talked with Police Major Pramote Ngarmpradit, a Supervising Inspector with the Pattaya Traffic Police who said that fewer road accidents would occur in Pattaya if both Thais and foreigners would obey the laws.

"We are charged with ensuring road safety for both Thais and foreigners," said Major Pramote. "Road safety does not mean cleaning up the mess and arbitrating in arguments of apportioning blame after the accident. Our job includes enforcing laws which prevent accidents."

"Many people, both Thai and foreign, seem to think that crash helmets are unimportant. This is a serious mistake and we are becoming stricter about levying fines on those motorcyclists not wearing helmets," the Major continued.

"Tourists in Pattaya for short visits seem to know the importance of helmets, as the laws are stringently enforced in their own countries.

But Thais and foreigners who live in Pattaya seem to be the main offenders," he said.

"We have many more traffic signs in both English and Thai now, but there should be more. Pattaya has more than 40 traffic police on duty at any one time but this is still not an efficient number of officers, as Pattaya has a relatively small population, but a large area with many roads. The city also operates on a 24 hour basis," he continued.

When asked about how to avoid accidents, Major Pramote was very definite, "I hope people know the main causes of accidents are not vehicle malfunction, faulty roads, or lack of signs. The main reason for over 90% of accidents is due to careless and reckless driving. Driving while intoxicated is the largest cause of the above. If everyone realized that statistically, improper use of motor vehicles causes more deaths than firearms, maybe they would be more careful when driving."

A salutary lesson for us all.

Unquote

marshbags

I wish he would also inform his officers of the need to wear helmets. This morning saw an officer with two children on his motorbike with no helmets.

[tropo]

I wish he would also inform his officers of the need to wear helmets. This morning saw an officer with two children on his motorbike with no helmets.

When schools out you'll see all the underage kids riding home - 3 or more on bike - no helmets.There's nothing the police can do to enforce the regulations as they're all minors.

The police prefer to hang out in Pattaya central scamming money from tourists.

There's a no-right-turn onto Pratumnak Road under the overpass where cops regularly target Farangs on motorcycles for turning right. They NEVER fine Thais or bother with cars turning here and ALL traffic turns right here. One day a cop tried it on me when I pointed out that 3 cars had turned there just in front of me.