DocN Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 How sickening it is to see all the red shirt huggers on here who supported the right for the violent red shirt protests and their speeches of hatred and arson all in the name of democracy and the right to protest now hypocritically support the blocking of what has so far been an extremely peaceful demonstration against the government. Immoral Hypocrites hang your heads in shame. Exactly who and where is supporting violence and arson and blah blah? No one is supporting the blocking of a peacefull demonstration. All "they" are saying and I am with them, is that someone who calls openly for a coup against a government, that came out on top in a democratic election (at least what they call "democratic" here!) should be viewed very carefully. There may be one or two individuals, who say otherwise, but that is a small number compared to the people who call all "reds" communists, marxists, fascists etc. Get a grip, man! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 < Unnecessary disparaging remarks directed at the PM have been removed > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_66WrU_PQUo to quote philw's on-topic question to you buchholz "is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??" yes or no? is it too difficult for you to answer just in case it comes back to bite?... it's a fair, on-topic question and if you don't want to answer it just say so, because ignoring it just looks worse. this isn't baiting, this is asking your opinion on something that either you haven't noticed has been asked or you are ignoring, and i'm interested as to the why. i'll tell you my answer, it's no. To me it is not a yes/no question as my reply depends on context. That is why I asked him for some specificity of quote.He failed to reply to that request and instead just repeated the question, in and around his repeated inflammatory sniping. If you wish to be his advocate and provide some substance to his question, I'll check back in the AM. It is not a yes or no answer, concerning undemocratic measures to overthrow an democratic elected government? Interesting! In what way is this government democratic apart from the elections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 To me it is not a yes/no question as my reply depends on context. That is why I asked him for some specificity of quote.He failed to reply to that request and instead just repeated the question, in and around his repeated inflammatory sniping. If you wish to be his advocate and provide some substance to his question, I'll check back in the AM. It is not a yes or no answer, concerning undemocratic measures to overthrow an democratic elected government? Interesting! If you'd like to have a crack at providing some specificity as to the precise quote and context of this purported yes/no question, please do so as it would make it even more interesting. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 How sickening it is to see all the red shirt huggers on here who supported the right for the violent red shirt protests and their speeches of hatred and arson all in the name of democracy and the right to protest now hypocritically support the blocking of what has so far been an extremely peaceful demonstration against the government. Immoral Hypocrites hang your heads in shame. Living for 30 years in a mostly socialist country and on the border to communist countries, I would say it is standard and complete normal for commies. Santa wears red is he commie too? or Man United? absurd How Dastardly you are. Hat off to your handler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 How sickening it is to see all the red shirt huggers on here who supported the right for the violent red shirt protests and their speeches of hatred and arson all in the name of democracy and the right to protest now hypocritically support the blocking of what has so far been an extremely peaceful demonstration against the government. Immoral Hypocrites hang your heads in shame. Exactly who and where is supporting violence and arson and blah blah? No one is supporting the blocking of a peacefull demonstration. All "they" are saying and I am with them, is that someone who calls openly for a coup against a government, that came out on top in a democratic election (at least what they call "democratic" here!) should be viewed very carefully. There may be one or two individuals, who say otherwise, but that is a small number compared to the people who call all "reds" communists, marxists, fascists etc. Get a grip, man! Your red shirt icons support violence. Maybe you just skipped those paragraphs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 How sickening it is to see all the red shirt huggers on here who supported the right for the violent red shirt protests and their speeches of hatred and arson all in the name of democracy and the right to protest now hypocritically support the blocking of what has so far been an extremely peaceful demonstration against the government. Immoral Hypocrites hang your heads in shame. Living for 30 years in a mostly socialist country and on the border to communist countries, I would say it is standard and complete normal for commies. Santa wears red is he commie too? or Man United? absurd How Dastardly you are. Hat off to your handler. why mention Dick Dastardly? I thought he was dead? he drove me crazy for years just shouting 'Muttleeeeeeeeeee' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocN Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Moruya said: "In what way is this government democratic apart from the elections?" Is that the point? This is Thailand, these are the rules all play along to! Democracy the Thai way! Is it Democracy at all? No it is not! Does it matter? No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocN Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Buchholz: are you in favor of a coup to bring down this current government? What references do you need, to answer this? A definition for coup? Or don't you know, who is the current government? So: ""is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??" THAT general, THIS government... Comprende? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 < Unnecessary disparaging remarks directed at the PM have been removed > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_66WrU_PQUo to quote philw's on-topic question to you buchholz "is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??" yes or no? is it too difficult for you to answer just in case it comes back to bite?... it's a fair, on-topic question and if you don't want to answer it just say so, because ignoring it just looks worse. this isn't baiting, this is asking your opinion on something that either you haven't noticed has been asked or you are ignoring, and i'm interested as to the why. i'll tell you my answer, it's no. If he did indeed call for a coup I would have to agree with you. We all know this government is sh/t but it is not that bad. I would have to see the statement in it's entirety to see if that is indeed what was said or just taken out of context. he said "a coup is the only way to topple the government", he talked about the military better suited to run the country etc. he said If a coup did take place, an interim government would be set up. If this was not acceptable to other countries, we could close the country. I don't know for how many years. and people are supporting this... So he did not call for a coup. He made a statement that is true in any government. What other way can you topple a Government. An honest election is not toppling a government. It is just Democratically electing new people into the same government. A coup would be to throw the Government out and use a different one such as happened when there was a coup in 2006 The government was thrown out and a new one set in. Fortunately it was an honest sett of people and they made some changes and then returned the Government to the people and even protected the government from an attempted coup by the red shirts. Do you know of any other way to topple a government than by a coup? While the government is indeed sh/t possibly the military could do it better an honest statement. Not a call to do it. "If a" blah blah blah. The wonderful world of IF in that world we can have the second coming of Jesus along with Buddha and Mohammed. It is a wonderful game is it not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Buchholz: are you in favor of a coup to bring down this current government? What references do you need, to answer this? A definition for coup? Or don't you know, who is the current government? So: ""is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??" THAT general, THIS government... Comprende? They (usual suspects) are in a bind so perhaps we shouldn't harp on.They loathe the current government yet know that a new general election would simply return Yingluck, possibly with a bigger majority.In their hearts they would like a military coup but the more intelligent of them know they cannot call for this openly and the few astute ones know it would be probably counter productive (as before) to their cause. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Buchholz: are you in favor of a coup to bring down this current government? Thanks for highlighting my points. Your question differs from that asked earlier and I can easily answer your question with a no. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Buchholz: are you in favor of a coup to bring down this current government? What references do you need, to answer this? A definition for coup? Or don't you know, who is the current government? So: ""is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??" THAT general, THIS government... Comprende? They (usual suspects) are in a bind so perhaps we shouldn't harp on.They loathe the current government yet know that a new general election would simply return Yingluck, possibly with a bigger majority.In their hearts they would like a military coup but the more intelligent of them know they cannot call for this openly and the few astute ones know it would be probably counter productive (as before) to their cause. The usual suspect misrepresenting what other posters say and spicing it with thinly-veiled flames harps on. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Buchholz: are you in favor of a coup to bring down this current government? What references do you need, to answer this? A definition for coup? Or don't you know, who is the current government? So: ""is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??" THAT general, THIS government... Comprende? They (usual suspects) are in a bind so perhaps we shouldn't harp on.They loathe the current government yet know that a new general election would simply return Yingluck, possibly with a bigger majority.In their hearts they would like a military coup but the more intelligent of them know they cannot call for this openly and the few astute ones know it would be probably counter productive (as before) to their cause. The only one harping on is you and your "usual suspects" mantra day in day out. I'd sooner listen to Barry Manilow for God's sake! Name them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocN Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Buchholz: are you in favor of a coup to bring down this current government? What references do you need, to answer this? A definition for coup? Or don't you know, who is the current government? So: ""is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??" THAT general, THIS government... Comprende? They (usual suspects) are in a bind so perhaps we shouldn't harp on.They loathe the current government yet know that a new general election would simply return Yingluck, possibly with a bigger majority.In their hearts they would like a military coup but the more intelligent of them know they cannot call for this openly and the few astute ones know it would be probably counter productive (as before) to their cause. The only one harping on is you and your "usual suspects" mantra day in day out. I'd sooner listen to Barry Manilow for God's sake! Name them And you really would be better of, doing so! What about some Pat Boone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridkun Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The rally just brought back this government the memories of what they did before coming to power this round, hence these all unnecessary actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Interesting that the usual suspects are happy to get personal but don't apparently feel able to address the predicament in which they find themselves, hencing the wriggling and evasion on the matter of a military coup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) < Unnecessary disparaging remarks directed at the PM have been removed > Note: The alleged 'Unnecessary disparaging remarks directed at the PM' were not removed by the reply poster. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_66WrU_PQUo My robotic (except for the occasional '[sic]' and the paragraph determination) transcription of the video's English-language subtitles: My fellow Thai citizens, I wish to inform you of the reasons behind the Government's decision to announce the use of the Internal Security Act B.E. 2551 (2008) (ISA) in three districts of Bangkok, namely Phra Nakorn, Pomprab Sattrupai, and Dusit, and the setting up of the 'Law and Order Administrative Centre' under the command of the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police. The ISA will be effective from 22 to 30 November 2012. I would like to emphasize That[sic] the Government fully adhere[sic] to the democratic system of government with the monarchy as Head of State. The Government believes in freedom of expression and is convinced that the Parliament is the place for the people's representatives to settle differences in viewpoints and resolve political conflicts. This is the appropriate channel in accordance with democratic rule. The Parliament also has the duty of monitoring the work of the Government, as demonstrated by the no-confidence motion that will take place in the next few days. On my part, I stand ready to listen the diversity of view and offer my explanations in accordance with the democratic parliamentary system. I became Prime Minister through free and fair elections by the people, under the democratic process with the monarchy as Head of State. I maintain that all the decisions that I and the Government have made, have been and will be in the best interests of the Thai people. It is my duty to protect the revered institutions of the nation, religion and the monarchy. Being a democracy, nevertheless, is not only about exercising ones'[sic] freedoms. The rule of law must also be observed and obeyed. Our society can co-exist only if there are rules and boundaries for the exercise of rights and freedoms. By exercising these rights and freedom[sic], it must not impinge on the rights and freedoms of others. Indeed, it is the common duty to protect our democracy so that it is not threatened by those who prefer otherwise. Public gatherings and protests, especially those arising from public grievances, is provided for and protected by the Constitution. But such public gatherings must be peaceful, without the use of weapons, and within the boundaries of the law. I am ready to listen to any ideas and proposals. But if a large number of people is mobilized by incitement, led by those who seek to overthrow an elected government and democratic rule - which is against the Constitution - and there is evidence that violence may be used to achieve those ends, then this is a case of national security. It is the government's duty to preserve law and order, protect the lives and property of everyone - including those who are protesting and those who are not involved. But most importantly, the government must protect the democratic system under the constitutional monarchy. This is the reason behind today's Cabinet decision. The measures that have been put in place in accordance with the law are to preempt and prevent any situations in a most timely and effective manner. The operations center is set up to ensure an integrated and coordinated approach among all agencies involved, should there arise any incidents that may threaten the wellbeing[sic] of civilians in any particular area. The measures and mechanisms to control the exercise of authorities[sic] will reflect the intensity of the situation. These measures are to be discontinued as soon as the situation improves. Lastly, I wish to reiterate that, since I have been elected and inaugurated as the Prime Minister last year, I have remained committed to restoring peace and stability[sic] It is my firm belief that reducing political conflicts and promoting national economic development and to enhance the lives of all Thais, regardless of their race, religion, social status, or political stance. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for the opportunity that you have given me over the past year. I am also grateful for all the support and encouragement that has been provided to me. I would like to pledge that I will not be discouraged and will continue to work to the best of my ability, as I intended and promised to all my fellow citizens. Edited November 23, 2012 by MaxYakov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Buchholz: are you in favor of a coup to bring down this current government? What references do you need, to answer this? A definition for coup? Or don't you know, who is the current government? So: ""is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??" THAT general, THIS government... Comprende? They (usual suspects) are in a bind so perhaps we shouldn't harp on.They loathe the current government yet know that a new general election would simply return Yingluck, possibly with a bigger majority.In their hearts they would like a military coup but the more intelligent of them know they cannot call for this openly and the few astute ones know it would be probably counter productive (as before) to their cause. The only one harping on is you and your "usual suspects" mantra day in day out. I'd sooner listen to Barry Manilow for God's sake! Name them And what exactly do you mean by 'usual suspects'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 How sickening it is to see all the red shirt huggers on here who supported the right for the violent red shirt protests and their speeches of hatred and arson all in the name of democracy and the right to protest now hypocritically support the blocking of what has so far been an extremely peaceful demonstration against the government. Immoral Hypocrites hang your heads in shame. Living for 30 years in a mostly socialist country and on the border to communist countries, I would say it is standard and complete normal for commies. Santa wears red is he commie too? or Man United? absurd I never saw Santa or Man United with Hammer & Sickle flag. But if Santa comes with the Hammer&Sickle flag, greeting me with comrade and and speaking the usual Marxist stuff than I assume that his is an communist. Same counts for the red shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimay1 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 How sickening it is to see all the red shirt huggers on here who supported the right for the violent red shirt protests and their speeches of hatred and arson all in the name of democracy and the right to protest now hypocritically support the blocking of what has so far been an extremely peaceful demonstration against the government. Immoral Hypocrites hang your heads in shame. Living for 30 years in a mostly socialist country and on the border to communist countries, I would say it is standard and complete normal for commies. Santa wears red is he commie too? or Man United? absurd I never saw Santa or Man United with Hammer & Sickle flag. But if Santa comes with the Hammer&Sickle flag, greeting me with comrade and and speaking the usual Marxist stuff than I assume that his is an communist. Same counts for the red shirts. Exactly. The old if it walks like a duck............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) I never saw Santa or Man United with Hammer & Sickle flag. But if Santa comes with the Hammer&Sickle flag, greeting me with comrade and and speaking the usual Marxist stuff than I assume that his is an communist. Same counts for the red shirts. Exactly. The old if it walks like a duck............. I get your point about the red intentions, but judging from their outfit Pitak Siam also reminds me about North korea, cuba and alike. Edited November 23, 2012 by jbrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonclark Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 As a previous poster pointed out - Enacting the ISA effectively puts the army in charge of the situation, (despite the details of responsibility as we all know responsibility :Thailand is a bit of an oxymoron) , Could this democratically elected government be seeking to setting the conditions to overthrow itself in military coup?? The bastards. If true, then that is a world class admission of failure form the Yingluck government. We're so bad, we overthrew ourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSlatersParrot Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 How sickening it is to see all the red shirt huggers on here who supported the right for the violent red shirt protests and their speeches of hatred and arson all in the name of democracy and the right to protest now hypocritically support the blocking of what has so far been an extremely peaceful demonstration against the government. Immoral Hypocrites hang your heads in shame. Living for 30 years in a mostly socialist country and on the border to communist countries, I would say it is standard and complete normal for commies. Santa wears red is he commie too? or Man United? absurd By the way It's not Santi Asoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waza Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The panicked and dysfunctional handling by the PTP, of this democratic assembly has the strench of fear and desperation about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemoncake Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Do a bit of research, lemoncake. You have to be kidding, baiting or trying to joke. i am still waiting for the source where nurses were shot, might be waiting for a while 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSlatersParrot Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The panicked and dysfunctional handling by the PTP, of this democratic assembly has the strench of fear and desperation about it. No it doesn't. Let's say for the sake of argument that the rally passes off peacefully. There are no arrests. There is no attempt to blockade the parliament and everyone goes home on Sunday night whilst on Monday the real work begins in the parliament with the censure debate takes place unhindered. Job done i would say and both sides come out smelling of roses. There but for the grace of God you might say. But, however judging by past form there just could be the slightest whiff of trouble brewing, of a prolonged demonstration, in support of the Dems, and the prospect of government supporters massing in opposition and the threat of real strife. It may happen anyway but the protesters have been forewarned. Seems prudent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSlatersParrot Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Do a bit of research, lemoncake. You have to be kidding, baiting or trying to joke. i am still waiting for the source where nurses were shot, might be waiting for a while Call yourself a senior member? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSlatersParrot Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Back in 2009, the reds viewed the Internal Security Act as bad whereas many in the anti-Thaksin side applauded it. Now, the shoe is on the other foot and the roles have been reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Post removed from view. 31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. Please note that this is a decision by the Bangkok Post, not by Thaivisa.com and any complaints or other issues concerning this rule should be directed to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xminator Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Government censorship, curfews, banning gatherings, searhing vehicles and buildings and censoring the media. What are they afraid of. Let us hope that they do the same for ALL the Red Shirt gatherings from now on as they wouldn't wan't to be accused of double standards, would they? Yes, I have not seen the ISA being imposed for the regular Red Rallies. So, why don't you list rallies that have been staged since Yingluck became PM, and order them by color and how many of them where ISA was used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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