Uk Expat Investing For Retirement

[nong38]

We all have different situations and whats right for one is not always right for another. Dont put all your eggs in one basket and remember whats going up can always come down.

I was not off shore but did take advantage of ISA's thought right now they are not up to much so you need to look out for a good one long term maybe?

So what did I do? I wanted to retire at 60 and did.

I bought unit trusts, still have them but with the way things are they are not a roaring success but I still have to pay the trailing commission for the privelege, mine are bestinvest.co.uk have a look see if you fancy what they offer, dont rush it.

I also bought shares in companies that paid a good dividend, had some go to the wall, some got taken over but the ones that are left are paying me a good dividend twice a year, restaurant group, Nichols, Dart group, I bought them at 40p, 121p and 25p they are much higher now so not much use to you but you might look at Vodaphone, Pru and the like, just be aware you need to keep an eye on them and what is in fashion and running away one day may not be tomorrow remember Marconi?

Think about Premium Bonds.

Dont get involved in things you dont understand.

Do some homework on what you plan to invest in, seek professional advice if you need to and can trust that person.

Assess your running costs in Thailand, make some visits and understand whats going on, it takes time ans we are all still learning.

Decide what your lifestyle will be and stick with it, when you retire your risk aversion will have to change and there will be no monthly pay cheque to pay for your mistakes.

Consider your heath costs.

If you are taking on a partner make sure you can trust them.

Most people arrive in Pattaya and after a while move on, so have a look around where you feel comfortable and it has what you need by that you need to make a list of your needs.

Good Luck.

[GuestHouse]

I think the first question the OP needs to ask is 'What is my expected income?

This calculator will help him calculate the amount he needs to save to achieve that income [http://money.guardian.co.uk/calculator/form/0,,603163,00.html]

The second question the OP should ask is, 'How much can I afford to save per month?' quickly followed by 'will my rate of saving at a return on investment rate of 6% give me enough to achieve the income I need?'

If the answer to this is NO then the OP needs to consider the following:

He needs to save more - perhaps work longer.

He needs to reassess his plans

He should not go looking for higher returns than 6%, which are very likely to come with higher risks - with ten years to go to retirement he cannot really afford to take risks.

(unless he really is into 'Death or Glory').

If the OP has any pension savings he should not even consider putting them in to a QROPS without getting sound financial advice (not from a QROPS Carpet Bagger who is making money out of selling these things).

QROPS might be right for a guy approaching retirement - but there is no need to buy into QROPS with ten years to go (and pay years of high fees) - If QROPS is right at the time of retirement, buy in at the time of retirement.

Ten years in your 50s is a long time, time for life changes, time for Thailand changes, time for health changes - Save now, and reassess your options down the line.

But do not live in poverty through over saving for a retirement in Thailand than might not be what you want when the time comes. Save for tomorrow - yes. But live the only life you have - TODAY!

[GuestHouse]

In addition to the very good points BlackPuddingBertha has made regarding onshore/offshore and UK savings protections, keep in mind that financial advice in the UK is regulated and comes with a raft of legal protections that are not available when using Thailand based 'financial advisors' . Anyone considering using an unregulated Thailand based 'financial advisors' rather than a regulated UK based financial advisor should give very carful consideration to the loss of legal regress that comes with the move.

The OP has asked for suggestions of investment brokerages, I use 'Hargreaves and Lansdown', they offer a wide range of high quality and reasonably priced services - They are of course covered under the UK laws governing financial services.

In addition to their services their website includes learning resources that anyone entering into personal investment might find informative.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

.... keep in mind that financial advice in the UK is regulated and comes with a raft of legal protections that are not available when using Thailand based 'financial advisors' . Anyone considering using an unregulated Thailand based 'financial advisors' rather than a regulated UK based financial advisor should give very carful consideration to the loss of legal regress that comes with the move.

In my darker moments I sometimes speculate that dealing with financial advisers in Thailand must be rather like dealing with estate agents in Thailand, but without the Vaseline.

[fanciman]

Thank you everybody for all the interesting ideas. It all seems quite complicated.

That book, costs only 1p! (though there are a couple of pounds shipping.) You can't go wrong with 1p, even though that book was written 10 years ago in 2002. I wonder how much tax laws have changed since then.

I spoke with somebody and they mentioned seeing a UK accountant who is used to dealing with ex-pats. They would know what to do, it was suggested. I think it really is something where some expert, personalized advice would be the necessary thing, but how much does that cost? And who would one talk to? It wouldn't be a very complicated case, I imagine. And there wouldn't be too many numbers to add up!

[AyG]

even though that book was written 10 years ago in 2002. I wonder how much tax laws have changed since then.

The only significant tax change I can think of is the change in inheritance tax for assets passed between a married couple/civil partners, though there may be others.

A non-tax area that isn't covered by the book is in the pension area: QROPS and QNUPS weren't about when it was written.

I spoke with somebody and they mentioned seeing a UK accountant who is used to dealing with ex-pats. They would know what to do, it was suggested. I think it really is something where some expert, personalized advice would be the necessary thing, but how much does that cost? And who would one talk to? It wouldn't be a very complicated case, I imagine. And there wouldn't be too many numbers to add up!

There are two areas you need to cover: taxation and investment planning. An IFA experienced in dealing with expats might be a better option than an accountant. An initial meeting with a IFA would usually be free, and you'd then be given an estimate of the cost of any work that needed to be done. Typically IFAs charge between GBP 100 and GBP 300/hour - possibly a bit higher in London.

I would, however, stress the need to educate yourself about investment, and in particular asset allocation. since after investments are set up they need to be monitored regularly. Also, in my opinion, the model portfolios used by many IFAs, are not appropriate for expats who plan on retiring abroad since they're not sufficiently skewed towards the destination's economy and markets.

[nong38]

The OP will by now have realized that there are many roads to go down but which one do I pick?

First thing, as has been said is to do some homework first, you can try HL or who I use Bestinvest, they are similar, see what they can offer you. You need first though to put your own thoughts down on what you want to achieve and how you propose to get there, set your goals then go to a IFA and let them put you straight from there. Your situation like ours will be unique, no one is right or wrong, you will pick up some good ideas here to help you form your plans as you see them today, be prepared for new imformation that changes that plan as you go along, be realistic about returns, its better to get more than you thought you would than less. You still have time on your side but is it enough, who knows? What we do know is that you can take less risks the older we get.

No one wants to pay fees, we all want the best advice free, perhaps you befriend and IFA and ask advice over a coffee every now and then.

Perhaps you belong to a society or other group who can help you, let me expalin. In the UK I belong to the Deltic Preservation Society ( a locomtive which ran in the UK in the 60's to 80's ) among the members of the society were, bankers accountants etc so it was easy to get specialist knowledge through a shared pleasure and that extended to other railway groups as well, you may have the untapped resources at your finger tips, someone who knows someone.

Well over to you now to look for the road forward, starts taking your notes and maing your plans.

PS I read a book here which I found useful as an introduction to Thailand called "Your Investment Guide to Thailand." by Bruce Bickerstaff ( ISBN 978-974-9511-86-2).

[nong38]

.... keep in mind that financial advice in the UK is regulated and comes with a raft of legal protections that are not available when using Thailand based 'financial advisors' . Anyone considering using an unregulated Thailand based 'financial advisors' rather than a regulated UK based financial advisor should give very carful consideration to the loss of legal regress that comes with the move.

In my darker moments I sometimes speculate that dealing with financial advisers in Thailand must be rather like dealing with estate agents in Thailand, but without the Vaseline.

I agree and when it all goes wrong it was you "who did not understand."

[nong38]

Just recieved an email from blighty with a reminder that the one fact you should not ever forget is that the HM Govt can change the rules at the drop of a hat!

Next week is the autumn statement and a think tank is giving George some food for thought, one is to raise the ISA limit and the other is to restrict the tax free allowance ( currently 25%) on SIPPS, maybe scrapping it altogether! This might affect your plans so look out for the next box of tricks its not likely to be good news in the current climate.

The main lesson though is not to assume that anything to do with govt's will stay the same or be a benefit to you or me!

Edited November 29, 2012 by nong38

[stephens1]

Hi Folks, as a new member and spending this morning reading a few threads I am quiet surprised some of you guy's are not talking about or considering the UK SEIS tax relief scheme's

In a nut shell it would be an expats ultimate investment opportunity , which removes a big percentage of risk on investments placed which is as high as 98% - so say you invested £10,000 to receive dividends you only risk £200 of the investment placed but have a £10,000 investment in equity , this has a double edge of the sword, as not only does this remove the potential risk , it also removes a big tax burden if you are considering selling up to fly off to sunnier climes, Assuming that some would be considering selling rental properties rather than been a tax burden as rentable income is taxable, if you sold a property rather than paying the taxman 40% CGT - this amount could be the sole investment rather then paying the same amount to the HMRC - and this amount would then be eligable to a further 50% tax relief of the investment placed - so infact you would be in a win win win situation from day 1

I am not a tax advisor or claim to be as such , but what I do know after spending the last 2 years creating an investable company is that this scheme is unbeleivable and is a perfect solution for someone considering retiring abroad

*Removes a tax burden (renting out property (ies)

*Removes CGT gains on said properties ( releasing retirement funds)

*50% further tax relief on any other investment or business incomes

*Removes the risk on your investments placed upto 98% (although the investment placed is from CGT which otherwise would of been paid to taxman in the first place)

*Dividend return on investment placed

*And the shares gained from investment are CGT FREE - if held for longer then 3 years

*Shares sold at a profit CGT free also

And as a final note : The investment placed and the dividends paid could possible enable you to adhere to the financial requirements for a retirement visa

*Bank account showing THB 800,000

*Monthly income of at least THB 65,000

*Combination (Bank account + income x12 = THB 800,000

Edited March 20, 2013 by stephens1

[fletchsmile]

For UK SEIS and UK EIS, my marginal rate of tax in UK is zero, and I pay next to nothing in UK tax to require relief against. so not really of interest to me

Also reluctant to add more money which is potentially captured by the UK tax man one way or another, particularly IHT

While VCS, EIS, SEIS have some nice tax breaks they are also at the riskier end of the investment spectrum. Also not always very liquid.

Might suit HNWI UK tax resident investors who already have some solid core investments....

[stephens1]

Was more or less thinking of someone thinking of retiring abroad really , as it helps remove a tax burden on the CGT on previous investments, plus the tax relief removes the risk of investment , but you are right if your UK tax is zero then obviously it would not benefit yourself, unless you had an investment to sell of the CGT would fall under the SEIS, so if looking on it that way , You would have no risk what soever really would you.

http://www.iexpats.com/2012/12/investing-10000-in-a-seis-risks-just-200-of-your-cash/

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Newbies resurrecting old threads in order to promote tax relief scheme's (sic).

Do I detect a whiff of spam?

[stephens1]

Why would whiff spam , read the thread and thought I could add to it , or is this not allowed? do not understand some guy's , does it bother you that much or just bored with yourself.

If the post helps others or gives them some food for thought , what's the problem