Thai Gf First Visit To Uk, Lots Of Questions.

[Saudi Sid]

And, I would hasten a guess, that the majority of those telling him not to listen to the 'negative posts' (which in fact aren't negative but dam_n good advice) are from chaps who - luckily for them - have had their relationships with prostitutes work out well. They are in the minority.

[JeremyBowskill]

The lack of time together is being addressed and would be detailed on the visa application. By the time we apply I'll have been to see her in Thailand twice, and by the time she comes to the UK it'll be 3 times. As for work she's taking a job of sorts and it does show she plays her part in the family structure, but of course her income is going to come from me sponsering her.

[/quote

That all is unlikely to cut the mustard unfortunately. I suggest you think long and hard exactly which bits can be improved on and how. If it were me I would suggest her getting an actual job, buying her a piece of land or getting a family member put a piece in her name to help out and being a bit more ecconomical with the truth. But thats just me.

Edited November 27, 2012 by JeremyBowskill

[theoldgit]

Nothing wrong with negative posts, especially one's that structure peoples expectations.

The posts I have deleted are the one's that contain insults, including the one I deleted a minute or two go.

I don't want to play hard ball here but I will have to address the next poster that submits a post that is wildly off topic or contains insults.

[GarryUK]

op you need to step back a bit and realalize how much this romance is going to cost you,its taken 49posts before you say the problem is all down to money you cant afford,there's the visa,air tkt[if she gets a visa] living exs,clothes,money to keep the family. dont get carried away because it might bite you big time in 30yrs i have seen it all and it never ends,dont be blind to the negative posts as there is a lot of experiance coming from tv members who see and read your story every day.at the end of the day if she see's that your not the rich farang she thought you were she will be on her bike quicker than you think.so just take things easy and watch for the signs.good luck.

Okay, so how many single guys with a life in the UK, mortgage, car etc can "afford" to spend thousands of pounds constantly flying back and forth to Thailand? I earn decent money and have been overpaying my mortgage for years so I wouldn't say I'm struggling in any way, but when I took out a loan to buy a new car 18 months ago I didn't think in a years time I'd rather be spending that money on holidays instead.

I was going to go more into the money thing but actually why should I, just to say no-one living in the UK has thousands of pounds lying around so having a girlfriend in Thailand is always going to be a "struggle" of sorts financially, but it's a matter of priorities, where the money goes, and recently mine have changed. And as for seeing me as a rich Farang I've always made it clear that I'm not. Up to this point she's never asked for money, and while I've offered to sponser her she's aware of just how little I plan to give her.

you say she has to look after her sister in laws kid,how do you know its not hers

Again I said in the original post there's far too much info even for our short history to detail here other than to say I completely trust her, she's more than proved herself to me, and no, the kid is her brothers.

[GarryUK]

Nothing wrong with negative posts, especially one's that structure peoples expectations.

The posts I have deleted are the one's that contain insults, including the one I deleted a minute or two go.

I don't want to play hard ball here but I will have to address the next poster that submits a post that is wildly off topic or contains insults.

Thanks, I guess that's the post I responded to and opted not to start arguing against his comments.

[beano2274]

1.Does your girlfriend have a Thai Passport

2.Apply to the British Embassy for an appointment for a UK Tourist Visa.(valid 90 days)

3.Wait + see how she adapts to the weather,culture ,your life in the Uk

4.Then book well in advance for a Fiancee Visa to marry in the Uk

Good Luck

Number 2 will not work, you do not make an appointment with the Embassy you make an appointment at VFS. And a tourist visa is valid for 180 days.

[jpinx]

You say you trust her totally so there should be no problem for you to lend/give her the small deposit she needs to buy a house on land and get all ther papers done so that she can show something to go back to Thailand for. You can also "buy" her a real job in a company who will pay her a salary into her bank which will show in her visa application. You could go so far as to pay the deposit on a car in her name also, for the same reasons.

These are small amounts in your terms, and the monthly payments will be small - unless she buys a mansion and Mercedes

You say you trust her totally, so you will have no problems with any of this - will you?

[meatboy]

Nothing wrong with negative posts, especially one's that structure peoples expectations.

The posts I have deleted are the one's that contain insults, including the one I deleted a minute or two go.

I don't want to play hard ball here but I will have to address the next poster that submits a post that is wildly off topic or contains insults.

Thanks, I guess that's the post I responded to and opted not to start arguing against his comments.

garyuk i am just posting a few do's and donts,being with my wife for over 25yrs.three of them living with her in thailand as to get to know her before i made the committment,and before that getting to know the thai way of dealing with the ups and downs and let me say there is plenty of downs if you dont address them.we all know the saying love is blind and yes i lost my sight more times than liz taylor got married.so i wish you all the luck.

[Saudi Sid]

Gary - a personal question and feel free to ignore it if you want to:

How old are you? How old is she?

And, in the UK have you been burnt by your GF or divorced?

I think if you can offer some insight there, the posters will have a better view of your expecations in life and perhaps be better placed as to how to structure your Lass' application.

[JeremyBowskill]

I'm a bit more trusting than Tommo above but this is begining to feel like a troll for the simple fact op seems to be set in trying to get the ECO to change to his way of thinking rather than take on what people with far more experience say and taylor it to meet their criteria. Do hope i'm wrong though as I have tried to offer the best advice I can. (with a few jokes thrown in)

Edited November 27, 2012 by JeremyBowskill

[AngryParent]

OK, my 2 bits more:

You have met here TWICE (2 short periods) and then have been away. Well, the girl was obviously in the profession for a reason. Helping her sister's kid does not really hold much water - why was the sister not in the business?

So, she obviously was in Pattaya for cash - taking a wild guess it would probably be more than a 7-11 job e.g. 7-10K per month your GF needed. Maybe a bit less. During the periods of seperation, how has she been getting that 7K? Solve this and you will really know if your relationship is genuine. Does she have a co-sponsor e.g. another rich farang who does the Western Union? Is she in Pattaya now but acting like she is back on the farm (or whatever)

Being a good girl and living off 1000 baht a month with a frugal existence does not cut it with me! She MUST have another income. Life was impossible back home so she went to Pattaya. That "hard life" condition has NOT changed esp. as you say you do not give her any money now.

The kid being her sisters - that is unbelievable to me! Ask for the Thai birth certificate! Nobody goes to the hell called Pattaya to help a sister's kid! I have heard of a teacher that worked near me who was completely ruined when his wife of more than a decade went back home to her family (which included a kid and a current Thai husband). Over a decade of lies well hidden!

I have met farangs who have lost houses and cars to the tune of millions of baht and they still live in hope/dream worlds. And near me a farang was MURDERED by his bargirl wife! She is now living in that house! Thailand and many Thais are not what we have ever experienced or could imagine by just living abroad.

This place freaks me out - and I have lived and worked here for years and know and meet thousands of Thais each year!

I am trying to go back to the UK and I am a UK citizen! I would probably be a freelancer if I knew it would get me back to the UK (said with a pinch of salt) but you can see how much more a Thai living in desperation might do and show and create a mirage!

As for giving money to get married. NEVER give money! As said, at weddings guests give but that is as far as I will allow. My wedding cost about 100 baht - the registration office costs!

All the best!

Edited November 27, 2012 by AngryParent

[VisasPlus]

Is that correct 747 you cannot get married on a VV? sorry then please disregard my last post I had no idea of this fact. Also ruins number 91 on my bucket list, import a flip ladyboy and marry her dressed as Elvis. These ECO's are nothing more than dream wrecking nazis

Or, better still, both you dress as Elvis - like a his and hers graceland gig.

GaryUK also said - "That would be a breach of a visitor visa, it specifically bars you from getting married. To do that I'd have to apply for a Fiance visa with all the extra requirements that entails."

The requirements for a visit visa include this at paragrapgh 41(x): "does not, during his visit, intend to marry or form a civil partnership, or to give notice of marriage or civil partnership;" .

You can interpret "does not intend during his visit " in different ways. Was the intention there before the visa was applied for, or did the couple decide to marry at as later stage ( during the visit to UK, for instance) ? There is, of a course, a specific visa that enables a visitor to marry in the UK, so a fiancee visa is not the only other choice. Paragrapgh 56D says :

56D. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a visitor for marriage or civil partnership are that he:

(i) meets the requirements set out in paragraph 41 (i) - (ix) and (xi) - (xii); and

(ii) can show that he intends to give notice of marriage or civil partnership, or marry or form a civil partnership, in the United Kingdom within the period for which entry is sought; and

(iii) can produce satisfactory evidence, if required to do so, of the arrangements for giving notice of marriage or civil partnership, or for his wedding or civil partnership to take place, in the United Kingdom during the period for which entry is sought; and

(iv) holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity.

[7by7]

The poster known as 7by7 faced a similar issue in that his now wife was initially refused a visa as she was unable to prove adaquate reason to return. You might want to PM him and ask the details on why the application failed.

It's no big secret.

This was 12 years ago, and I was a complete visa naif. I thought it would be a simple matter of filling in the forms, paying the fee and getting the visa!

How wrong I was.

I could go into more detail, but it's too long ago to be really relevant to this topic; except to say that the experience taught me to take nothing for granted in a visa application and that proper preparation is the key.

Even more so nowadays when very few applicant's are interviewed.

The ECO will base their decision on the paperwork submitted; so try and think of all possible questions the ECO may have and answer them. Either with documentary evidence or in your sponsor's letter; but don't make that too long; the ECO wont read a novel! Try to keep it to two pages max.

Garry, to be blunt; some of the questions you are asking indicate that you have not yet read UK Visit Visa Basics. I urge you to do so as most of the questions you have asked are answered there or in the links contained therein.

VisasPlus is, of course, correct to say that if the intention is to marry while visiting the UK then a marriage visit visa is what she should apply for. However, other posters are wrong to say that she cannot marry in the UK if she has an ordinary visit visa; she can.

However, whichever type of visit visa she has, she cannot apply to remain in the UK once married; she will have to return to Thailand and apply for settlement as your spouse there.

Some have suggested a fiance visa. A fiance visa is a type of settlement visa and priced as such and all the settlement requirements need to be met. It is valid for six months and you should marry in that time and she then applies to remain in the UK as your wife.

If you don't marry and she returns to Thailand then in a later application, settlement as your spouse for example, she should explain why she did not marry you the first time.

[endure]

As for giving money to get married. NEVER give money! As said, at weddings guests give but that is as far as I will allow. My wedding cost about 100 baht - the registration office costs!

I find that a strange thing to say. My highly respectable restaurant owning Thai friend who's lived in the UK for 25 years is expecting to have to shell out a million baht sin sod for his son who is marrying the daughter of a successful Thai jeweller. He doesn't regard it as a rip off but as part of the Thai tradition when getting married.

[GarryUK]

I'm a bit more trusting than Tommo above but this is begining to feel like a troll for the simple fact op seems to be set in trying to get the ECO to change to his way of thinking rather than take on what people with far more experience say and taylor it to meet their criteria. Do hope i'm wrong though as I have tried to offer the best advice I can. (with a few jokes thrown in)

I don't understand the troll thing and no, I'm not hoping to get the ECO to think like me, I'm actually asking people to advise me on anything I'm doing that could be changed to improve my chances, for example switching from Facebook video which has no logs to something that will prove how much we talk.

I'm not against people having different opinions to myself, but I've asked for help not some of the insults that have been posted by some. I'm not here to defend her, nor am I going to expand on why I trust this one and why things appear to be moving so fast, they just are. If I'm wrong about her I'll get hurt I know, but why are there so many people saying walk away now and find someone better, it's offensive!

[GarryUK]

Garry, to be blunt; some of the questions you are asking indicate that you have not yet read UK Visit Visa Basics. I urge you to do so as most of the questions you have asked are answered there or in the links contained therein.

That's one of the first things I read and it makes a number of points clear including my need to prove a genuine relationship exists and that she'll return to Thailand after her visit, hence the questions I ask...

Is there anything I can change the way I do to better prove the relationship is real, I talk to her every day and we have plans for the future together, and other than returning to Thailand for the wedding is there anything else that will make her return seem more likely.

I read an article on here explaining SinSod (didn't realise that's done at the engagement not the marriage). It says sometimes parents may use it to buy wedding gifts like land for a house to be built on. That would tie in with one of the suggestions she get some land in her name, perhaps it's something I can discuss with her before we visit her parents.

I'm sorry if my posts are unclear, or are some just so hardened and resentful it doesn't matter what I say they just wanna piss on my party?

[GarryUK]

I find that a strange thing to say. My highly respectable restaurant owning Thai friend who's lived in the UK for 25 years is expecting to have to shell out a million baht sin sod for his son who is marrying the daughter of a successful Thai jeweller. He doesn't regard it as a rip off but as part of the Thai tradition when getting married.

I don't have a million Baht but I'm with you on this one. It's their culture, I have no problem with SinSod, especially if we happen to get it back in some manner as a wedding present. I'll be paying what I can afford to give, so it won't matter if her parents keep it.

[7by7]

I'm actually asking people to advise me on anything I'm doing that could be changed to improve my chances, for example switching from Facebook video which has no logs to something that will prove how much we talk.

ECOs are aware of modern technology, and saying that you chat via facebook video should be fine. I'm a bit of a technophobe, but is there any way of logging how often you chat? If not, then just say that this is what you do and how often.

If you ever send each other emails then print out the headers (no need for the contents) and of course any phone records if you do ever phone each other.

Is there anything I can change the way I do to better prove the relationship is real, I talk to her every day and we have plans for the future together, and other than returning to Thailand for the wedding is there anything else that will make her return seem more likely.

You can only, as said, write in your sponsor's letter a brief history of the relationship, your plans for the future and the reason for the visit at this time. Stressing that you are both aware that overstaying her visit will jeopardise any future plans you may have for living together in the UK.

Some may say "get her to find a job." But were you an ECO would you believe that someone who has just started work would be given a holiday; even a short one? If you want to follow this route, it would be better to wait until she has been in the job for a few months at least. Remember that it is likely that the entry clearance section will phone any employer to check what is in their letter.

I read an article on here explaining SinSod (didn't realise that's done at the engagement not the marriage).

Maybe it depends on the local tradition.

I didn't pay any sin sod; didn't even know about it until I read of it some three years after our marriage. When I asked about it my wife said that she had been married before and not lived with her parents for nearly 20 years; so it was not expected of me.

When my step-son married he paid 200K. This was paid at the marriage (ceremonial, not ampur registration) and put on show for all to see before his mother-in-law bundled it up and took it away.

Shortly after the wedding they gave him back half and used the rest as the deposit on a car for him and their daughter.

Remember that at the wedding you will also be expected to put on show the gold you have bought your new wife.

The amount of sin sod and gold will be discussed and agreed with her parents before the wedding.

To be honest, though, this is the Visas and Migration forum and perhaps we should stick to that subject here. If you want to discus sin sod and other marriage subjects a topic in the Marriage and Divorce forum would probably garner you more useful advice than here.

Edit:

Sorry if I seemed a bit hard on you before, but there's been so much crap posted in this topic, mostly from people who have rarely. if at all, visited this particular forum before (not you), that it's been difficult sorting the wheat from the chaff!

Edited November 27, 2012 by 7by7

[Saudi Sid]

The poster known as 7by7 faced a similar issue in that his now wife was initially refused a visa as she was unable to prove adaquate reason to return. You might want to PM him and ask the details on why the application failed.

It's no big secret.

This was 12 years ago, and I was a complete visa naif. I thought it would be a simple matter of filling in the forms, paying the fee and getting the visa!

How wrong I was.

I could go into more detail, but it's too long ago to be really relevant to this topic; except to say that the experience taught me to take nothing for granted in a visa application and that proper preparation is the key.

Even more so nowadays when very few applicant's are interviewed.

The ECO will base their decision on the paperwork submitted; so try and think of all possible questions the ECO may have and answer them. Either with documentary evidence or in your sponsor's letter; but don't make that too long; the ECO wont read a novel! Try to keep it to two pages max.

Garry, to be blunt; some of the questions you are asking indicate that you have not yet read UK Visit Visa Basics. I urge you to do so as most of the questions you have asked are answered there or in the links contained therein.

VisasPlus is, of course, correct to say that if the intention is to marry while visiting the UK then a marriage visit visa is what she should apply for. However, other posters are wrong to say that she cannot marry in the UK if she has an ordinary visit visa; she can.

However, whichever type of visit visa she has, she cannot apply to remain in the UK once married; she will have to return to Thailand and apply for settlement as your spouse there.

Some have suggested a fiance visa. A fiance visa is a type of settlement visa and priced as such and all the settlement requirements need to be met. It is valid for six months and you should marry in that time and she then applies to remain in the UK as your wife.

If you don't marry and she returns to Thailand then in a later application, settlement as your spouse for example, she should explain why she did not marry you the first time.

So why was your Mrs deemed as having nothing to return to?

Had you no realtionshipn history?

[GarryUK]

To be honest, though, this is the Visas and Migration forum and perhaps we should stick to that subject here.

Thanks for your feedback on that but agreed, it was mentioned simply because of the example I used where some have given it back as a wedding gift for the couple to buy land or a house, and one poster had said if she owned land it might be another reason to return, but any continuation on that subject should be posted elsewhere.

By the time we (probably) apply for a visa I'll have manually recorded 6 weeks worth of start and finish times for our video chats. For example tonight I was late home but we spoke from 18:50 to 22:30 (5:30am in Thailand as I'm sure everyone can work out). Actually, it's a good job she doesn't have a proper job to go to so she can stay in bed all day.

[JeremyBowskill]

To be honest, though, this is the Visas and Migration forum and perhaps we should stick to that subject here.

Thanks for your feedback on that but agreed, it was mentioned simply because of the example I used where some have given it back as a wedding gift for the couple to buy land or a house, and one poster had said if she owned land it might be another reason to return, but any continuation on that subject should be posted elsewhere.

By the time we (probably) apply for a visa I'll have manually recorded 6 weeks worth of start and finish times for our video chats. For example tonight I was late home but we spoke from 18:50 to 22:30 (5:30am in Thailand as I'm sure everyone can work out). Actually, it's a good job she doesn't have a proper job to go to so she can stay in bed all day.

How much you video chat is only 1 tiny point of what the ECO will be interested in. You seem to be making a bigger point of this than they probably will. I would consentrate in the other areas that need addressing as this is already covered as you have said.

Edited November 27, 2012 by JeremyBowskill

[theoldgit]

As for giving money to get married. NEVER give money! As said, at weddings guests give but that is as far as I will allow. My wedding cost about 100 baht - the registration office costs!

I find that a strange thing to say. My highly respectable restaurant owning Thai friend who's lived in the UK for 25 years is expecting to have to shell out a million baht sin sod for his son who is marrying the daughter of a successful Thai jeweller. He doesn't regard it as a rip off but as part of the Thai tradition when getting married.

Likewise a Thai lawyer I know married his Thai girlfriend and paid a considerable sin sod, photos of which are shown in his wedding photos on his Facebook page.

[sms747]

As for giving money to get married. NEVER give money! As said, at weddings guests give but that is as far as I will allow. My wedding cost about 100 baht - the registration office costs!

I find that a strange thing to say. My highly respectable restaurant owning Thai friend who's lived in the UK for 25 years is expecting to have to shell out a million baht sin sod for his son who is marrying the daughter of a successful Thai jeweller. He doesn't regard it as a rip off but as part of the Thai tradition when getting married.

Likewise a Thai lawyer I know married his Thai girlfriend and paid a considerable sin sod, photos of which are shown in his wedding photos on his Facebook page.

Sinsot is a tradition that is to be respected so should be paid but NOT in certain situations. I very much doubt the Thai jeweller was marrying a beach road prostitiute. Garry does not seem to get it so far, the Embassy don't care that much about the reality of a relationship what they are mainly concerned about is her having reasons to go back home, and at the moment I don't see any.

[Saudi Sid]

or are some just so hardened and resentful it doesn't matter what I say they just wanna piss on my party?

Hardened is probably the wrong word here, Mate. Realist perhaps and certainly some pesimists. Me, I'm an opportunist - whilst these guys are discussing whether the hooker realtionship is half real or half bullshit, I'd step in and shag her :-)

Seriously though:

Gary - a personal question

How old are you? How old is she?

And, in the UK have you been burnt by your GF or divorced?

I think if you can offer some insight there, the posters will have a better view of your expecations in life and perhaps be better placed as to how to structure your Lass' application

[JeremyBowskill]

As for giving money to get married. NEVER give money! As said, at weddings guests give but that is as far as I will allow. My wedding cost about 100 baht - the registration office costs!

I find that a strange thing to say. My highly respectable restaurant owning Thai friend who's lived in the UK for 25 years is expecting to have to shell out a million baht sin sod for his son who is marrying the daughter of a successful Thai jeweller. He doesn't regard it as a rip off but as part of the Thai tradition when getting married.

Likewise a Thai lawyer I know married his Thai girlfriend and paid a considerable sin sod, photos of which are shown in his wedding photos on his Facebook page.

Sinsot is a tradition that is to be respected so should be paid but NOT in certain situations. I very much doubt the Thai jeweller was marrying a beach road prostitiute. Garry does not seem to get it so far, the Embassy don't care that much about the reality of a relationship what they are mainly concerned about is her having reasons to go back home, and at the moment I don't see any.

Spot on +1

Although we differ on how we may fill out the application form we surely agree on this main point.

[7by7]

The poster known as 7by7 faced a similar issue in that his now wife was initially refused a visa as she was unable to prove adaquate reason to return. You might want to PM him and ask the details on why the application failed.

It's no big secret.

This was 12 years ago, and I was a complete visa naif. I thought it would be a simple matter of filling in the forms, paying the fee and getting the visa!

How wrong I was.

I could go into more detail, but it's too long ago to be really relevant to this topic; except to say that the experience taught me to take nothing for granted in a visa application and that proper preparation is the key.

So why was your Mrs deemed as having nothing to return to?

Had you no realtionshipn history?

Which part of "I could go into more detail, but it's too long ago to be really relevant to this topic" don't you understand?

I will answer, though, in the hope that you will finally cease your obsession with my wife's visit visa refusal 12 years ago!

When we submitted the application form at the embassy we were given an interview date and a list of documents to bring to the interview.

This list did not include evidence of employment or evidence my step-daughter attended school so we did not include them.

I was able to talk to the ECO following her interview and refusal and he told me that he had refused her because of this.

I said that these documents had not been asked for, his reply was that the document we had been given did say that the list was not exhaustive and that other documents may be required.

I pointed out to him that it also said that if this was the case we would be given time to produce any missing documents, and that I could be back with them within the hour.

His reply was that he had made his decision and that it was final.

As at that time my wife was not my wife but my fiance, it was a general visit not a family one so we could not appeal.

As I said, we got into this position due to my total naivety over the UK visa process. A naivety I have over the 12 years corrected.

The settlement applications for my wife and step-daughter were successful, as have been subsequent visit applications by my step-son and sister-in-law.

Will you now please cease your obsession with my wife's refusal?

Apologies to GarryUK for this off topic post, but SS has been stalking over this for some time and I finally wanted to put it to rest.

[Saudi Sid]

Lets get this topic back on subject - all this talk of Restaurant owners, SinSod, step sons the rights and wrongs and status of hookers, hooker pay, facebooks pics etc isn't helping Gary. He has all the information and we have all his information.

Specific points just to the application now are the best way to assist him.

[Saudi Sid]

This list did not include evidence of employment or evidence

The takeaway point here and value of 711s post, Gary, centres around the 'reason to return' issue you may be facing.

If your Lass does secure a job then be sure to include some wage slips. And, if she works for say three months then securing a couple of weeks holiday to go to the UK is something more Jai dee Thai bosses would allow.

Also, there was some talk that perhaps your Lass has a daughter, in which case, this point has some value too.

evidence my step-daughter attended school

Best of Luck

Sidney

[7by7]

Whether or not the child of a visit visa applicant attends school would only be relevant if the child was applying too; which was so in my case.

The ECOs are well aware that many Thais live and work abroad leaving their children in the care of relatives. So having children would not be considered by itself as an adequate reason to return. Though added to other factors it could tip the balance in the applicant's favour.

However, in Garry's case it is not relevant as the child concerned is his girlfriend's niece.

Garry, you said earlier (your OP?) that by the time she applies you will have visited her at least twice more. This will, obviously, add strength to your proof of a relationship and therefore to her application.

[Saudi Sid]

Whether or not the child of a visit visa applicant attends school would only be relevant if the child was applying too; which was so in my case.

It would be relevant in that it proves the child is IN school and the parent takes the child's education seriously (which many in Issan do not), this is one more point in proving her good character (not many how minimal that point is) and she has furtehr intention to return to her well loved child. Many Thais, as I am sure you know disregard their children.

This post doesn't require any further discussion, he has the info despite the points raised that there is so question as to whether she has a child.