Proficient In Thai (Farangs Only)

[arch77778]

Could those on the forum, who are at least 90% proficient in Thai (speaking only) please advise how long it took them and what benefit have they derived from speaking Thai.How important is it to write and read Thai if you can speak Thai?

[farang000999]

there is a section of this forum for the topic but why even bother asking? just go study if you want to. the person who asks this question will probably never be the person to learn.

[arthurwait]

I'm no way 90% proficient in Thai, but when you learn to read Thai you will realise most words you thought you knew were wrong.

[villagefarang]

I was wondering if anyone would venture a response, given the rather high threshold for entry. To begin with I am not sure what you mean by 90% proficient. Observing how many native speakers struggle with English on this forum, I would not rate most of them as 90% proficient in their own language, let alone Thai.

After speaking Thai for more than 35 years, I still can’t tell you how long it will take me to reach that magic percentage, or some mythical end point where I no longer need to learn more.

The benefits you ask about, in my opinion, are too numerous to list and I marvel at those who insist it is neither beneficial nor advisable to learn the language of the country one lives in.

In all the years I have lived here, I have never been called upon to write Thai but reading can be very beneficial when one steps out of the tourist areas.

[Ulysses G.]

I am guessing that there are very few Westerners that are "90%" fluent in Thai. I am guessing that the mod Sabaijai might be up to that standard, but he is proficient indeed.

[yourauntbob]

After almost 5 years here I speak, read, and understand about as much as a 3-4 year old child. This doesnt sound like a lot but I find it extremely useful in many situations. I study online and the occasional private lesson on and off.

I have known people who were able to pick it up near fluent in a year, and others who have been here for 10 years that know less than me. It all depends on the persons aptitude and effort.

[Ulysses G.]

No disrespect intended, but I have been here for more than 20 years and I have never met anyone who became fluent in one year. In fact, I only know one Westerner who has become really fluent during the whole time I have lived here. He speaks about 5 languages and has studied Thai every day for more than two decades. However, he got really good in about 5 years. My Thai staff tell me that his Thai is excellent,. but Sabaijai is even better and has been here much longer.

I do know a number of other Westerners who can speak Thai reasonably well, but nowhere close to being really fluent.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[cgphuket]

The only farang that I have seen that are fluent are those who grew up here. I have been here 3 years and speak passable conversatonal Thai. The benefit is huge (for me, in my opinion) as it seperates me from the "Buffalo" tourists and isolated expats. I have gotten to know people and seen things I I never would have if I couldnt speak. Many may have no desire to learn or not need to, but for me, speaking Thai has greatly improved my experience here. Even poorly accented Thai is appreciated by the locals and helps one get off the "tourist track". Any effort to learn Thai is a good thing as long as you dont add "Mak Mak" to ever word you know : )

[TommoPhysicist]

If you spend two years in a Thai jail, you will speak very good Thai.

Nothing else to do, no distractions, no other language to speak.

(I have a friend who learnt Thai this way, very quick, very effective, hardly any cost)

[ManInSurat]

I'd say I'm 95%, both spoken and written.

Apart from the very obvious social benefits, there's definitely a financial benefit.

Unofficial and aggressive dual pricing was the bane of my life and always a cause for bouts of rage, that nearly got me into trouble. (There were occasions I was easily being charged double or triple for things you have to buy that just don't have pricing on them in the shops.)

Since I have learned to speak fluent Thai overpricing for me has all but stopped.

It can help diffuse tense or angry situations.

It can definitely help prevent you from making Thais lose face and teach how to "white lie" in Thai to keep your life much less hassle free. We all know you have to pay lip service to ideas and concepts you don't like here.

It's obvious that if you've taken the time to become proficient in a language you're going to have a much better understanding and tolerance of that culture.

Thai people act very very differently around you if they're aware you can understand everything they say.

I can read things like contracts, road signs (aside from city names in English, obviously), newspapers, etc which have their own obvious merits. If you want to be totally self-sufficient in every aspect of life here, reading is essential. There are things you'll need to do as a farang that will only have Thai script for you to read.

I think it's bizarre to live full time in a country where you can't understand what is being said around you all the time. That would make me feel very uncomfortable and have severe trust issues.

The most important aspect for me personally, is that it allows me to be completely and totally conversant with the love of my life who is also my best friend.

Many relationships break down or suffer extreme stress when there is a severe break down in communication, trust issues aplenty there.

Having an argument with a Thai wife or gf is bad enough being conversant, let alone compounding the problem by not being able to understand one another.

I could not, in good conscience have a permanent life-long relationship with someone I didn't fully understand all the time.

I have even taken it upon myself to learn Dai my wife's and the southern part of Thailand's local dialect. The fact she's never hidden anything from me and has always helped me improve my Thai, always correcting me and telling me off (even in front of other people) just makes me love her even more.

Learning Thai could also reveal a lot of home truths that you didn't want to know (not that that was the case with me, but I'll give you an example)

I had a Swedish friend that was intent on learning Thai and wanted some help and I agreed. His wife (who I'd always hated - she was a slut) went nuts. She would not let him learn and threatened to leave him if he did.

This was the most absurd reaction I'd ever seen to anything. It was my wife that explained to me that if Stefan, my friend, did learn Thai, she wouldn't be able to lie to his face and smack-talk about him with other Thais while he was in the room. The "brother" that was in fact the gik would be found out and her life would disintegrate. This resolved me to ensure he learned it and found out the truth for himself.

I couldn't outright tell him his life was a lie knowing it could destroy my friendship with Stefan and perhaps make life dangerous for me. I could give him the tools to work it out for himself. Which is exactly what I did. He didn't get proficient but I made sure he learned enough. We learned together over the internet so as not to arouse suspicion.

He's now back in Sweden with a lovely new family and daughter and infinitely less stressed, richer and happier.

I think if you live here and you don't even slightly make the effort, there's got to be something wrong with you.

N.B. It has taken 7 years of permanently learning and talking Thai every day to get to this level and I'm still not really 100% if I am honest.

The fact I was not born speaking a tonal language is the thing that prevents me from being totally and perfectly fluent, with absolutely no imperfections. I suspect I never actually will get to that stage. I'll sure try to get close though.

I never used a school.

In the age of the internet, there's no reason why you'd pay through the nose for their services for mediocre teachers.

Most of what I've learned is self-taught with my wife and I think it's better to learn this way, as you get to speak the exact way your spouse does, the merits of which I outline above. You can reinforce this with the internet and learn the rules, grammar and other things that just don't come from a home schooling.

Not to mention it helps you get to know your partner and decide whether you do actually want to spend all of your life with that person.

I consider myself extremely lucky that my missus is the kind-hearted, friendly, loving, caring, educated, sensible person she is.

There are those kind of women out there in Thailand! You won't find them in bars in tourist sex havens!

EDIT:

And I have thought of another passive downside to being able to understand Thai and that's the fact I can know understand everything that's said in the 3 & 7 mini operas my wife is inextricably addicted to.

That is a pain worse than death, in my humble opinion.

Just a little jape!

----

Go forth and learn. You owe it to yourself.

Edited November 29, 2012 by ManInSurat

[Ulysses G.]

If you spend two years in a Thai jail, you will speak very good Thai.

Nothing else to do, no distractions, no other language to speak.

(I have a friend who learnt Thai this way, very quick, very effective, hardly any cost)

Very true. I know someone who just got out after a few years and he went from super basic Thai to conversational.

[ManInSurat]

If you spend two years in a Thai jail, you will speak very good Thai.

Nothing else to do, no distractions, no other language to speak.

(I have a friend who learnt Thai this way, very quick, very effective, hardly any cost)

Very true. I know someone who just got out after a few years and he went from super basic Thai to conversational.

So we're actually promoting a stint inside prisons that feature in Amnesty's "World's Worst Prisons List" as an effective and rational way to learn a language?

Am I missing something here?

I'm assuming both of the quoted comments are extremely tongue-in-cheek.

Also, if you want to promote a much safer analogue, surely becoming a monk and being exclusively in a wat would be a much less dangerous way to get the same, if not better education. Not to mention that monks are often the most educated members of Thai society.

It'd allow you the same solitary and seclusion, without the very obvious downside of having all your liberty curtailed.

You'd also get to learn the religion, which is enmeshed in their culture and daily lives.

Edited November 29, 2012 by ManInSurat

[Rsquared]

If you spend two years in a Thai jail, you will speak very good Thai.

Nothing else to do, no distractions, no other language to speak.

(I have a friend who learnt Thai this way, very quick, very effective, hardly any cost)

I do not disagree with you......but no offence, personally I don't wish to learn Thai that way.

Hope your friend is now OK.

Cheers.

[Zooheekock]

I don't know what "90% fluent" means - as is often the case, my reading is far better than my other skills but unless it's a text on a particularly technical topic, I can read general fiction, the news, blogs etc in Thai without too much difficulty - but if you want to get to a decent level in any language, unless you're blessed with exceptional natural ability, you have to read. One of the most important parts of learning a language is being exposed to comprehensible input, which is exactly what extensive reading gives you. Reading obviously helps develop skills in reading but I've also found that it's helped my listening hugely and it also helps enormously with acquiring and retaining vocabulary as well as getting you to internalize Thai’s unusual (from an English-speaker’s perspective) sentence-level and discourse-level patterns.

[HardenedSoul]

I'd say I'm 95%, both spoken and written.

Apart from the very obvious social benefits, there's definitely a financial benefit.

Unofficial and aggressive dual pricing was the bane of my life and always a cause for bouts of rage, that nearly got me into trouble. (There were occasions I was easily being charged double or triple for things you have to buy that just don't have pricing on them in the shops.)

Since I have learned to speak fluent Thai overpricing for me has all but stopped.

It can help diffuse tense or angry situations.

It can definitely help prevent you from making Thais lose face and teach how to "white lie" in Thai to keep your life much less hassle free. We all know you have to pay lip service to ideas and concepts you don't like here.

It's obvious that if you've taken the time to become proficient in a language you're going to have a much better understanding and tolerance of that culture.

Thai people act very very differently around you if they're aware you can understand everything they say.

I can read things like contracts, road signs (aside from city names in English, obviously), newspapers, etc which have their own obvious merits. If you want to be totally self-sufficient in every aspect of life here, reading is essential. There are things you'll need to do as a farang that will only have Thai script for you to read.

I think it's bizarre to live full time in a country where you can't understand what is being said around you all the time. That would make me feel very uncomfortable and have severe trust issues.

The most important aspect for me personally, is that it allows me to be completely and totally conversant with the love of my life who is also my best friend.

Many relationships break down or suffer extreme stress when there is a severe break down in communication, trust issues aplenty there.

Having an argument with a Thai wife or gf is bad enough being conversant, let alone compounding the problem by not being able to understand one another.

I could not, in good conscience have a permanent life-long relationship with someone I didn't fully understand all the time.

I have even taken it upon myself to learn Dai my wife's and the southern part of Thailand's local dialect. The fact she's never hidden anything from me and has always helped me improve my Thai, always correcting me and telling me off (even in front of other people) just makes me love her even more.

Learning Thai could also reveal a lot of home truths that you didn't want to know (not that that was the case with me, but I'll give you an example)

I had a Swedish friend that was intent on learning Thai and wanted some help and I agreed. His wife (who I'd always hated - she was a slut) went nuts. She would not let him learn and threatened to leave him if he did.

This was the most absurd reaction I'd ever seen to anything. It was my wife that explained to me that if Stefan, my friend, did learn Thai, she wouldn't be able to lie to his face and smack-talk about him with other Thais while he was in the room. The "brother" that was in fact the gik would be found out and her life would disintegrate. This resolved me to ensure he learned it and found out the truth for himself.

I couldn't outright tell him his life was a lie knowing it could destroy my friendship with Stefan and perhaps make life dangerous for me. I could give him the tools to work it out for himself. Which is exactly what I did. He didn't get proficient but I made sure he learned enough. We learned together over the internet so as not to arouse suspicion.

He's now back in Sweden with a lovely new family and daughter and infinitely less stressed, richer and happier.

I think if you live here and you don't even slightly make the effort, there's got to be something wrong with you.

N.B. It has taken 7 years of permanently learning and talking Thai every day to get to this level and I'm still not really 100% if I am honest.

The fact I was not born speaking a tonal language is the thing that prevents me from being totally and perfectly fluent, with absolutely no imperfections. I suspect I never actually will get to that stage. I'll sure try to get close though.

I never used a school.

In the age of the internet, there's no reason why you'd pay through the nose for their services for mediocre teachers.

Most of what I've learned is self-taught with my wife and I think it's better to learn this way, as you get to speak the exact way your spouse does, the merits of which I outline above. You can reinforce this with the internet and learn the rules, grammar and other things that just don't come from a home schooling.

Not to mention it helps you get to know your partner and decide whether you do actually want to spend all of your life with that person.

I consider myself extremely lucky that my missus is the kind-hearted, friendly, loving, caring, educated, sensible person she is.

There are those kind of women out there in Thailand! You won't find them in bars in tourist sex havens!

EDIT:

And I have thought of another passive downside to being able to understand Thai and that's the fact I can know understand everything that's said in the 3 & 7 mini operas my wife is inextricably addicted to.

That is a pain worse than death, in my humble opinion.

Just a little jape!

----

Go forth and learn. You owe it to yourself.

High quality post

[Zooheekock]

And I have thought of another passive downside to being able to understand Thai and that's the fact I can know understand everything that's said in the 3 & 7 mini operas my wife is inextricably addicted to

They're quite good (in a trashy kind of way) when you get into them - had some funny parts (the tom was great) and I've been inexpicably drawn to

[Honkie]

After almost 5 years here I speak, read, and understand about as much as a 3-4 year old child. This doesnt sound like a lot but I find it extremely useful in many situations. I study online and the occasional private lesson on and off.

I have known people who were able to pick it up near fluent in a year, and others who have been here for 10 years that know less than me. It all depends on the persons aptitude and effort.

After almost 5 years here I speak, read, and understand about as much as a 3-4 year old child. This doesnt sound like a lot but I find it extremely useful in many situations. I study online and the occasional private lesson on and off.

I have known people who were able to pick it up near fluent in a year, and others who have been here for 10 years that know less than me. It all depends on the persons aptitude and effort.

How Private are your occasional lessons ? 555.

[ManInSurat]

And I have thought of another passive downside to being able to understand Thai and that's the fact I can know understand everything that's said in the 3 & 7 mini operas my wife is inextricably addicted to

They're quite good (in a trashy kind of way) when you get into them - had some funny parts (the tom was great) and I've been inexpicably drawn to

I'll be man enough to admit I occasionally get drawn into it too! If I didn't understand, I'd be oblivious.

I've not watched one for at least a year, to be fair.

My favourite Thai television and probably the only thing I do watch (other than news)

The Police! Stop! Camera! affair on Thursday nights. I really like that.

[krisb]

Thai is easier than English.

Id even say much easier.

An example would be get a Thai to translate the words rough, tough, laugh, enough....thats just a start of how English has no rhyme nor reason.

Learning Thai is a piece of cake compared to something like Chinese.

If you enjoy the whole subject of learning languages, then you will find it easy.

[BlackArtemis]

ManinSurat summed it up wonderfully. Am I near 90%? No, but I could go a full day without speaking any English. I have been here for about 4 years and after 1-2 I felt comfortable. I did move back to the US so I would say about 6+ years speaking it, 4+ where I seriously tried. My ex had a MS TEFL and would help explain complicated subjects, however she rarely corrected my incorrect pronunciations. My new GF is much better with being honest about my Thai. A few weeks ago I took up a private tutor for reading and writing because I find myself bored with self study and if I pay for something I keep at a schedule. I have grown a lot in a few short weeks and hope to pass the 6th grade equivalency test within a year.

[arch77778]

Although i started this topic i wish to complement MarinSurat (so did others) on his contribution which i found exceptional.No doubt many of us Farangs will learn much from his response.You have a really loving etc Missus and i can confirm there are those kind of women in LOS.

[mania]

I am no where near fluent & have no idea how long it will take

as many times I reach plateaus & my enthusiasm wanes a bit.

Have studied on my own for a few years

then also took reading & writing at a university.

My wife of course helps as she is Thai but the problem is she speaks English so

well having lived in the US for 5 years that most times we settle back into English.

Many times even when I ask her questions in Thai she will unconsciously answer in English.

As for benefits I would guess it is obviously a benefit to be able

to speak the language of any country you choose to reside in.

Both for daily tasks being easier or even for an emergency need to get a point

across. But in my case I also like being able to speak even a little & understand my wifes

family when we are at their homes. Otherwise you feel so left out just sitting there or needing your

wife to translate everything for you.

One thing I will say about reading & writing is I can read much better than I can speak.

Because of course once you learn to read you can read most words but that does not mean you know what

they mean

But I have said before that I wish I started with reading right off. Because if you learn any Thai through transliteration

you will have the wrong pronunciation stuck in your head. Simple things like the number 7

Transliterated they always write Jet yet the Thai word is เจ็ด which ends in daw-dek ด

So a D sound not a T sound.

That is just one of many examples. So in that way reading has helped me.

[fletchsmile]

Takes a few months to pick up some basic Thai. Takes probably a couple of years to become good. That to me is the level where the effort is matched by the rewards.

I also took a year's course at Chula university. It was worthwhile to an extent, and has a certain kudos attached to having spent time at the No.1 University and having a certificate saying "Advanced Thai". I enjoy being able to read, and like that I can understand things that are written which automatically helps your language ability. It's also useful for reading text in a business context. After that I can't say there were any earth shattering benefits where becoming very good makes a difference to your life.

I think Thai is probably the least useful language I've learnt. I attained fluency in most other languages I've learnt far quicker, and have pretty much given up bothering to actively improve my Thai. It is what it is and peaked around 2002, before probably getting worse.

When I say least useful, that's because I find a lack of interesting literature, and other outlets for having a proficient knowledge. Many Thais live a simple life, and quite happy with superficial relationships outside their own circles, and that doesn't require an extensive vocabulary to interact with them.

Thailand also places a high value on form (appearance) over substance. As someone who appreciates genuine substance more you realise that isn't built on language ability.

I'd also say that on occasions you can be happier just taking things at face value and not fully understanding how things are. A lot of Thai interaction is based on how people would like things to appear rather than how they actually are. So beware the double edged sword when it comes to understanding how things work. I never really saw this downside in other languages I learnt

A pleasant and friendly disposition, combined with good Thai and a basic understanding of cultural values is probably the best cost / benefit in my view. For the things that really matter to me in life, I don't see 90% proficiency in Thai as important.

[Edited for multi-posts aboved]

Edited November 29, 2012 by fletchsmile

[MrRed]

Probably one of the best posts i have seen on Thai Visa from Maninsurat.........

I presume you are down south(maybe wrong)if so how would you converse up here in Isaan which as i am sure you know is a mixture of Lao and Thai and in the east Khmer even and would be very different from your dialect in the south?

My Thai after five years continuous is excellent spoken but i cannot read a bean and have never really tried either,i really would like too one day but find it a bind and get along fine with all and sundry through speech alone.

Like i say just curious about the OP's initial question really because of the different dialects the percentage is not an issue is it.

Edited November 29, 2012 by MrRed

[canopy]

I have learned a good amount of Thai over the years and can read and write and type though there is still much more I wish to learn. Learning Thai is like earning freedom. The more you know, the more freedom you get. Freedom to speak to anyone, freedom to order from any menu, freedom to watch any movie, freedom to be a bigger part of what is going on around you, freedom to achieve more. Too many freedoms to list and many locked doors are opened.

Learning Thai is not something you can just do and get out of the way. It's just too big and daunting for that. It is a gradual process. Take each small step up the ladder and notice it pays dividends and find inspiration to go further. At the end of the day, you've got to want it. It just won't happen by itself.

[KhaoNiaw]

Learning to read is a major step in my opinion. As others have pointed, you never reach a point when you stop learning - but that's also true of your first language as well. Being able to read Thai will open up a much wider vocabulary and probably mean that you can appreciate the language as more than just a practical conversational tool.

I seem to have good and weaker days for speaking Thai but one reason I was put in my current position was because of my Thai language skills. The downside side is that I'm always required to attend meetings that other foreign staff miss out on. I sometimes have to conduct meetings for our department in Thai when the head is not available. I don't feel completely comfortable but when people are asking questions and discussing what I've said, I realize that I've got it over and they're focused on the content.

The other thing that being able to read well has done for me is that I can work as a Thai-English translator. Most Thai-English translators in Thailand are Thai and sometimes the results of the English translations leave a lot to be desired. So I started picking up work editing some of these horrors and when people realized I read and understand written Thai well, I was able to get work as a translator. I'm good at it and enjoy it as much as my full-time job.

I don't really need to write much in Thai and I'm definitely not competent enough to do serious English-Thai translation work. I sometimes need to send memos out in Thai but I have loads of templates and examples that I can tweak.

[Neeranam]

I am guessing that there are very few Westerners that are "90%" fluent in Thai. I am guessing that the mod Sabaijai might be up to that standard, but he is proficient indeed.

That might be because Sabaijai is Thai!!!

[Neeranam]

Learning to read Thai took me 1 month - got an AUA book and there is one 1/2 hour lesson to do every day. It's easy but it's all down to priorities. I know people who have been here for 40 years who can't read. Very intelligent guys, but chose not to learn. One guy actually speaks 7 different languages but asked me to tell his driver to take the second left! He was a diplomat and told me once how he learned Russian in 6 weeks. He worked at an embassy, had an English speaking wife and servants. he didn't have the need/inclination to learn.

ANYONE could learn to read Thai.

I qualify to reply in this thread as I am 90% fluent in some areas - talking about football, things to do with my car, food/drink etc.

However, I'm in the process of buying/selling land and a house and certainly don't qualify. I understand maybe 60%.

Reading a newspaper - although I say I can read Thai - because of the difficult language, size of print, use of slang, I can't fully understand them - guessing many words and meanings.

Fear is what stops many guys I know learning Thai. They spends hours on the internet but don't even know the awesome amount of material to help learn Thai. Fear of making a fool of themselves, fear of failure. They justify in all sorts of absurd ways why they don't need to learn.

The reason I think I put the effort in was because I wanted freedom. I'd hate to have to take my wife down to the mechanics to explain what was wrong, or take my bilingual kids to translate at the post office. I want freedom to go where I want and not feel handicapped by my inability to communicate.

[tingtongtourist]

I do not know my % level but i do think enough to answer your question.

Reading definately help to learn quicker.You need to know where is difference between the BPai sound (ไป) and Bai sound (บ่าย) otherwise all is guessingwork and many times you will get it wrong as one other poster did say.

Also many different sounds when words start with the sound of j,ch, g,k,kh, sometimes will sound the same to a beginner but can only know for sure when you can read to see the difference for yourself.This is the reason so many Thai cannot understand what a farang try to say as even a slight change will make a very different word

many other benefit include:

-knowing for certain what bus/van to get on, if can read the location no need for a guess and to get driven all over town to wrong place

-can be good time passer when caught in traffic jam, read signs and businesses on the side of the road

-read menu at restaurant with thai only will open a whole new wold of food choices and good to study when bored waiting at SLOW service place!

-AND when the waiter see that you can read and know the price they will stop trying to pad onto the bill

-If you teach English also big benefit in helping your student in many ways when student does not understand things in English.

-when meeting new people who do not know you understand give you advantage of weeding out the dirtbags you DONT want to know

also speaking Thai good to the taxi always have a better chance of no problem and so very strange..after i did learn Thai it make every taxi driver suddenly have small change he could give me

[TommoPhysicist]

I am guessing that there are very few Westerners that are "90%" fluent in Thai. I am guessing that the mod Sabaijai might be up to that standard, but he is proficient indeed.

That might be because Sabaijai is Thai!!!

There are quite a few people on this forum that are dual passport holders and totally educated in their western parents country. That doesn't mean they are proficient in the Thai language, a few speak nothing at all, more read and write nothing at all.

Edited November 30, 2012 by TommoPhysicist