Proficient In Thai (Farangs Only)

[BlackArtemis]

I'm sorry, I forgot to list my benefits.

95% of my friends are Thai, and I continue to make new ones. I never have a boring night unless it was my choice. Hell, I think the downside is that I have gotten fatter, poorer(no, I am not treating everyone) and sleep deprived from going out so much.

Day to day life is much easier.

I get treated very differently because I can speak. This can vary from people opening up and being talkative with me to having people know they can't rip me off anymore.

Being able to speak with my GF in Thai despite her level of proficiency, hell her level of proficiency is a great reason I should be able to read and write as well as she can in English and Italian.

When I lived in the US with my Ex, we could talk about anything in public and have a "private" conversation.

and lastly, it's just fun. Learning is fun to me, being able to communicate with more people is fun, and Thai can just be a fun language.

[Ulysses G.]

I am guessing that there are very few Westerners that are "90%" fluent in Thai. I am guessing that the mod Sabaijai might be up to that standard, but he is proficient indeed.

That might be because Sabaijai is Thai!!!

The last that I knew he was trying to get permanant residence here, so I don't think so.

[TommoPhysicist]

I'm sorry, I forgot to list my benefits.

95% of my friends are Thai, and I continue to make new ones. I never have a boring night unless it was my choice. Hell, I think the downside is that I have gotten fatter, poorer(no, I am not treating everyone) and sleep deprived from going out so much.

Day to day life is much easier.

I get treated very differently because I can speak. This can vary from people opening up and being talkative with me to having people know they can't rip me off anymore.

Being able to speak with my GF in Thai despite her level of proficiency, hell her level of proficiency is a great reason I should be able to read and write as well as she can in English and Italian.

When I lived in the US with my Ex, we could talk about anything in public and have a "private" conversation.

and lastly, it's just fun. Learning is fun to me, being able to communicate with more people is fun, and Thai can just be a fun language.

I don't agree on so many levels.

I find Thais generally dull (actually that is a bit unfair, I find almost everyone dull)

If you are living on a University campus that might not be true, but somehow I doubt it.

Anyway, I live on a farm and everyone is as dull as ditch-water (and they don't speak Thai anyway but village Lanna).

If they know you can understand them, they will chat for hours on subjects as interesting as, "my dinner was very spicy, I can drink 2 bottles of rice whiskey without dying", etc., etc.

As for wanting meaningful conversation with your lover ....... my god, how old are you, 12!

When you get to my age you will understand talking with your lover is even more boring than "I can drink 2 bottles ...."

As for people ripping you off, it's not the language you need to know, it's the price of everything you need to know.

Thai's People are dull, no need to communicate.

PS

Nobody in Thailand has a boring evening, unless they are cornered by Thais and generously allowed to pay for everything. To not have a boring night, you just need 500bht (1500 in BK) in your pocket and no Thai 'pals' leeching off you.

PPS

I assume you are speaking central Thai in BK, take a trip to Korat and see how far speaking central Thai gets you, or up to my village in Nan where it's another completely different language.

Edited November 30, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[BlackArtemis]

Tommo: Don't want to quote again and have it be a huge page.

I live close to Close to CMU and most of my friends have some form of education, but having a BA/BS or MA/MS is not a qualifier for being a good person, I just made friends through friends and they all tend to be similar in education. The rest are involved in the booming art community here and have tons of interesting topics to discuss, but interests vary.

Do I have the same conversation a lot with strangers? Yes I do, but I often get to learn new things, maybe not about Thai language, but new thing none the less.

Because I live in CM, I do speak northern, but not as well as I can listen to it. Don't understand how a local dialect could be a problem.

As for my age, I am 30. have divorced, hold a degree in counseling (doesn't mean I'm perfect in my own life), and have parents who to this day have meaningful conversations daily. So for me, this is a BIG thing, it might not be for you and it doesn't have to be for everyone, but the question stated by the OP was to list benefits, and for me this is a benefit.

It sounds like we lead two very different lifestyles here so we are not going to have the same viewpoints, so hopefully each of our own viewpoints will help two different groups of people

[TommoPhysicist]

Because I live in CM, I do speak northern, but not as well as I can listen to it. Don't understand how a local dialect could be a problem.

As for my age, I am 30. have divorced, hold a degree in counseling (doesn't mean I'm perfect in my own life), and have parents who to this day have meaningful conversations daily. So for me, this is a BIG thing, it might not be for you and it doesn't have to be for everyone, but the question stated by the OP was to list benefits, and for me this is a benefit.

CM Lanna and village Lanna are almost entirely different, they wouldn't understand each other.

I thought you sounded young ............

Off Topic

Walked through CM Uni this morning, then up the Pilgrims Trail to Wat Doi Suthep.

Edited November 30, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[rgs2001uk]

PS

Nobody in Thailand has a boring evening, unless they are cornered by Thais and generously allowed to pay for everything. To not have a boring night, you just need 500bht (1500 in BK) in your pocket and no Thai 'pals' leeching off you.

I can easily have a non boring night out in Bkk for 500 baht, if I avoid farang areas.I go to Thai areas with Thai friends (not freeloaders) examples include, 6 people having 2 bottles of whisky between them, total 1000 baht divide by 6 = 167 baht each.Another Thai place, large Leo 75 baht,x3 = 225 baht, half bottle of Hong Tong plus ice and mixers 200 baht, total 425 baht + tip for the serving girl, total 500 baht.Yet another Thai place, large Leo 60 baht x6 = 360 baht, large bottle of Blend + ice + mixers 300 baht total 660/2 = 330 baht each.The above are all Thai places with live music and plenty of uni girls.Not so long back myself and a farang friend visited lower Suk, night out cost 4,000 baht for two people, a couple of nights later same friend visited the house, night out for both of us, 800 baht.

PPS

I assume you are speaking central Thai in BK, take a trip to Korat and see how far speaking central Thai gets you, or up to my village in Nan where it's another completely different language.

I regularly am in Issan, you mentioned Korat, I visit PakTong Chai just south of Korat, I then carry onto Surin and Prasat sometimes to Ubon, no problem speaking Central Thai.

[yourauntbob]

No disrespect intended, but I have been here for more than 20 years and I have never met anyone who became fluent in one year. In fact, I only know one Westerner who has become really fluent during the whole time I have lived here. He speaks about 5 languages and has studied Thai every day for more than two decades. However, he got really good in about 5 years. My Thai staff tell me that his Thai is excellent,. but Sabaijai is even better and has been here much longer.

I do know a number of other Westerners who can speak Thai reasonably well, but nowhere close to being really fluent.

I know several who have become near fluent in a year (speaking) and one who became fluent in all aspects in a year. The prior were younger, coming here as mid to late teenagers and the latter is a guy I worked with that studied non stop for a year and completely immersed himself in a Thai village. Not saying its easy or common, but possible for some people under the right circumstances.

[ManInSurat]

I'm sorry, I forgot to list my benefits.

95% of my friends are Thai, and I continue to make new ones. I never have a boring night unless it was my choice. Hell, I think the downside is that I have gotten fatter, poorer(no, I am not treating everyone) and sleep deprived from going out so much.

Day to day life is much easier.

I get treated very differently because I can speak. This can vary from people opening up and being talkative with me to having people know they can't rip me off anymore.

Being able to speak with my GF in Thai despite her level of proficiency, hell her level of proficiency is a great reason I should be able to read and write as well as she can in English and Italian.

When I lived in the US with my Ex, we could talk about anything in public and have a "private" conversation.

and lastly, it's just fun. Learning is fun to me, being able to communicate with more people is fun, and Thai can just be a fun language.

I don't agree on so many levels.

I find Thais generally dull (actually that is a bit unfair, I find almost everyone dull)

If you are living on a University campus that might not be true, but somehow I doubt it.

Anyway, I live on a farm and everyone is as dull as ditch-water (and they don't speak Thai anyway but village Lanna).

If they know you can understand them, they will chat for hours on subjects as interesting as, "my dinner was very spicy, I can drink 2 bottles of rice whiskey without dying", etc., etc.

As for wanting meaningful conversation with your lover ....... my god, how old are you, 12!

When you get to my age you will understand talking with your lover is even more boring than "I can drink 2 bottles ...."

As for people ripping you off, it's not the language you need to know, it's the price of everything you need to know.

Thai's People are dull, no need to communicate.

PS

Nobody in Thailand has a boring evening, unless they are cornered by Thais and generously allowed to pay for everything. To not have a boring night, you just need 500bht (1500 in BK) in your pocket and no Thai 'pals' leeching off you.

PPS

I assume you are speaking central Thai in BK, take a trip to Korat and see how far speaking central Thai gets you, or up to my village in Nan where it's another completely different language.

I pity this comment.

When we get to your age? Please! You're old, so we have to bow to your

do we? I'll tell you what. I'll come and meet you, in person, wherever you are in Thailand and we'll record your spoken Thai. Even your Lao/Korat/Issan/Khmer dialect.

The fact you lump the Isaan and Korat languages together so easily tells me everything I need to know about you and your mindset.

The fact you live in the sticks and get your num sot kwaai (fresh buffalo milk) immediately answers any remaining questions I might have had.

Being a "farang kee nok" in the far north of Thailand is not an accomplishment any human should aspire to. I find all of this post risible and cause for genuine laughter amongst the 20-strong Thai family, currently sitting with me and asking what TV is all about.

Edited November 30, 2012 by ManInSurat

[Ulysses G.]

No disrespect intended, but I have been here for more than 20 years and I have never met anyone who became fluent in one year. In fact, I only know one Westerner who has become really fluent during the whole time I have lived here. He speaks about 5 languages and has studied Thai every day for more than two decades. However, he got really good in about 5 years. My Thai staff tell me that his Thai is excellent,. but Sabaijai is even better and has been here much longer.

I do know a number of other Westerners who can speak Thai reasonably well, but nowhere close to being really fluent.

I know several who have become near fluent in a year (speaking) and one who became fluent in all aspects in a year. The prior were younger, coming here as mid to late teenagers and the latter is a guy I worked with that studied non stop for a year and completely immersed himself in a Thai village. Not saying its easy or common, but possible for some people under the right circumstances.

I am guessing that your idea of "fluent" is quite different from mine. No one becomes 90% fluent in Thai in one year or anywhere close to it.

[MrHammer]

So did anyone start out having a lot of difficulty with the tones, but mastering it anyway? I'm asking because certainly there's other like me who is a bit muscially challenged?

[TommoPhysicist]

The fact you lump the Isaan and Korat languages together so easily tells me everything I need to know about you and your mindset.

You did that, not me.

[CaptHaddock]

So did anyone start out having a lot of difficulty with the tones, but mastering it anyway? I'm asking because certainly there's other like me who is a bit muscially challenged?

Sure, I found the tones very hard at first. I don't get them right all the time now, particularly when I am nervous, but I am getting better. When I speak slowly I now can tell that I get them right. I am certain that I will master them completely. It takes a lot of practice, but anyone can do it, in my opinion. It is extremely helpful to have a Thai person willing to correct your pronunciation. I have made a lot of progress since I switched from classroom study to one-on-one with a teacher committed to correcting me.

If you regard mastering the Thai tones as impossible, you will never get it right. If you consider it to be a hard learning task that will take lots of practice and if you have a good teacher, you can certainly master it.

Edited December 1, 2012 by CaptHaddock

[mania]

Agree tones is the hard part.

Especially learning as we do what class the consonant is,

Is it Live or Dead Final & if it has no final consonant does it have a long or short vowel. etc.

Sheesh just writing it makes me tired

When I asked my reading,writing teacher about how Thai kids learn she said it never comes up

as they do not learn Thai the way we do.

Which is interesting in a way. Not thinking about tones but learn each word by sound as it is a different word

even if spelled or spoken similarly.

Edited December 1, 2012 by mania

[Colonel_Mustard]

Takes a few months to pick up some basic Thai. Takes probably a couple of years to become good. That to me is the level where the effort is matched by the rewards.

I also took a year's course at Chula university. It was worthwhile to an extent, and has a certain kudos attached to having spent time at the No.1 University and having a certificate saying "Advanced Thai". I enjoy being able to read, and like that I can understand things that are written which automatically helps your language ability. It's also useful for reading text in a business context. After that I can't say there were any earth shattering benefits where becoming very good makes a difference to your life.

I think Thai is probably the least useful language I've learnt. I attained fluency in most other languages I've learnt far quicker, and have pretty much given up bothering to actively improve my Thai. It is what it is and peaked around 2002, before probably getting worse.

When I say least useful, that's because I find a lack of interesting literature, and other outlets for having a proficient knowledge. Many Thais live a simple life, and quite happy with superficial relationships outside their own circles, and that doesn't require an extensive vocabulary to interact with them.

Thailand also places a high value on form (appearance) over substance. As someone who appreciates genuine substance more you realise that isn't built on language ability.

I'd also say that on occasions you can be happier just taking things at face value and not fully understanding how things are. A lot of Thai interaction is based on how people would like things to appear rather than how they actually are. So beware the double edged sword when it comes to understanding how things work. I never really saw this downside in other languages I learnt

A pleasant and friendly disposition, combined with good Thai and a basic understanding of cultural values is probably the best cost / benefit in my view. For the things that really matter to me in life, I don't see 90% proficiency in Thai as important.

I had a similar experience of learning Thai and would pretty much agree with everything you have posted.

[tingtongtourist]

I'm sorry, I forgot to list my benefits.

95% of my friends are Thai, and I continue to make new ones. I never have a boring night unless it was my choice. Hell, I think the downside is that I have gotten fatter, poorer(no, I am not treating everyone) and sleep deprived from going out so much.

Day to day life is much easier.

I get treated very differently because I can speak. This can vary from people opening up and being talkative with me to having people know they can't rip me off anymore.

Being able to speak with my GF in Thai despite her level of proficiency, hell her level of proficiency is a great reason I should be able to read and write as well as she can in English and Italian.

When I lived in the US with my Ex, we could talk about anything in public and have a "private" conversation.

and lastly, it's just fun. Learning is fun to me, being able to communicate with more people is fun, and Thai can just be a fun language.

I don't agree on so many levels.

I find Thais generally dull (actually that is a bit unfair, I find almost everyone dull)

If you are living on a University campus that might not be true, but somehow I doubt it.

Anyway, I live on a farm and everyone is as dull as ditch-water (and they don't speak Thai anyway but village Lanna).

If they know you can understand them, they will chat for hours on subjects as interesting as, "my dinner was very spicy, I can drink 2 bottles of rice whiskey without dying", etc., etc.

As for wanting meaningful conversation with your lover ....... my god, how old are you, 12!

When you get to my age you will understand talking with your lover is even more boring than "I can drink 2 bottles ...."

As for people ripping you off, it's not the language you need to know, it's the price of everything you need to know.

Thai's People are dull, no need to communicate.

PS

Nobody in Thailand has a boring evening, unless they are cornered by Thais and generously allowed to pay for everything. To not have a boring night, you just need 500bht (1500 in BK) in your pocket and no Thai 'pals' leeching off you.

PPS

I assume you are speaking central Thai in BK, take a trip to Korat and see how far speaking central Thai gets you, or up to my village in Nan where it's another completely different language.

I pity this comment.

When we get to your age? Please! You're old, so we have to bow to your

do we? I'll tell you what. I'll come and meet you, in person, wherever you are in Thailand and we'll record your spoken Thai. Even your Lao/Korat/Issan/Khmer dialect.

The fact you lump the Isaan and Korat languages together so easily tells me everything I need to know about you and your mindset.

The fact you live in the sticks and get your num sot kwaai (fresh buffalo milk) immediately answers any remaining questions I might have had.

Being a "farang kee nok" in the far north of Thailand is not an accomplishment any human should aspire to. I find all of this post risible and cause for genuine laughter amongst the 20-strong Thai family, currently sitting with me and asking what TV is all about.

You make me wonder about this.Now with the ASEAN thing and all the government talk about Thais must learn English, will we see Thais looking through Thaivisa for practice reading?

In one way i really hope they do not.Very embarrassed for Thais to see how we talk to each other and address many thai issue and problems here, and also the way we talk about thais..this will not do anything good for any inter race relationship if they see how we carry on!

Also the fact be that Thais stick up for each other in a biff...but we..we are the minority group here but still always at each others throat

if the Thai do think we are bunch of fools now what will they think after they pour over some of the things that get said on this site

[SiameseCurios]

As for people ripping you off, it's not the language you need to know, it's the price of everything you need to know.

Spot on. Learning Thai is not the same as learning the local price structure.

Edited December 1, 2012 by SiameseCurios

[tombkk]

Moving this to the Thai language forum.

[Neeranam]

No disrespect intended, but I have been here for more than 20 years and I have never met anyone who became fluent in one year. In fact, I only know one Westerner who has become really fluent during the whole time I have lived here. He speaks about 5 languages and has studied Thai every day for more than two decades. However, he got really good in about 5 years. My Thai staff tell me that his Thai is excellent,. but Sabaijai is even better and has been here much longer.

I do know a number of other Westerners who can speak Thai reasonably well, but nowhere close to being really fluent.

I know several who have become near fluent in a year (speaking) and one who became fluent in all aspects in a year. The prior were younger, coming here as mid to late teenagers and the latter is a guy I worked with that studied non stop for a year and completely immersed himself in a Thai village. Not saying its easy or common, but possible for some people under the right circumstances.

I am guessing that your idea of "fluent" is quite different from mine. No one becomes 90% fluent in Thai in one year or anywhere close to it.

I know people who were 90% fluent in spoken Thai in one year. Many of them missionaries.

[Zooheekock]

I know people who were 90% fluent in spoken Thai in one year. Many of them missionaries.

Yes. Whatever you might think about those guys, you've got to admire the way they learn the language; it shows just how far motivation can get you.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Zooheekock

[Neeranam]

I know people who were 90% fluent in spoken Thai in one year. Many of them missionaries.

Yes. Whatever you might think about those guys, you've got to admire the way they learn the language; it shows just how far motivation can get you.

Yes, it's all about motivation.

[kokesaat]

Once I broke the code on the tone rules, I asked my teacher (one on one) to just say ผิด at the end of a sentence if I used the wrong tone on any word in the sentence. I had to figure out what tone was wrong and self-correct it. If I made multiple mistakes in one sentence, it was still a single ผิด and I had to continue to work out the problem myself. Of course, when I started reading, I was reading very short sentences, so rarely did I make more than one or two mistakes in a single sentence.

I had to drill the idea in my teacher's head that this was the way I wanted to learn........it was what worked for me when I was learning Chinese moons ago in the Defense Language Institute.

[leosmith]

Learning to read Thai took me 1 month

he learned Russian in 6 weeks

What a crock.

Once I broke the code on the tone rules, I asked my teacher (one on one) to just say ผิด at the end of a sentence if I used the wrong tone on any word in the sentence.

I recommend recording and listening to yourself. Brutal, but effective.

Edited December 2, 2012 by leosmith

[meadish_sweetball]

With motivation and talent, it is possible to learn to read out regular Thai words properly in a month if you apply yourself to it full time, 8+ hours per day.

It took me 6 months to have broken the code, but then I was studying general linguistics and other aspects of Thai at the same time, and spending a little too much of my time drinking masala chai and chain smoking. If we had focused exclusively on the reading, 1 month would have been possible.

Of course, even after the stage of having learned regularly spelt words, you still have all the irregular words to tackle. And in advanced texts, there are many.

Rikker Dockum who used to post regularly in this forum was a speed learner, he was chatting away with ease online in written Thai after just one year. So they're around alright.

[Murf]

I have had so manypeople who say someone they know is fluent in Thai, but they cannot speak good Thai themselves... How do they know?

I have met these people that were supposedly fluent and laughed.

Anyone who claims to be fluent or 90% fluent... please post a video and let us see.

[kriswillems]

What is 90% proficient? - If it this means you can use 90% of the words in the Royal Institute Dictionary in a meaningful sentence quiet a lot of Thai people are not 90% proficient.

Most farangs (and I am one of them) that put a lot of effort learning the language (when being an adult) can reach a level that allows them to explain what they think or want in 99% of the times. Some farang reach this level within a year, others need 10 years. I don't think we call this group of farang 90% proficient, because the vocabulary that this group uses is probably much more limited that the vocabulary a Thai person would use in the same situation. Also the pronunciation and sentence construction of the farang will be probably less good.

I think language and intelligence and knowledge are strongly related. I know many Thai people than can give a much less clear explanation in Thai about a certain subject than some farang can do. I also know many Thais that can give a much better explanation in English about a certain subject than some native English speakers can. What I am to say is: "the level of "understand-ability" doesn't only depend on the correctness of the usage of the language, but also depends on the knowledge and intelligence of the speaker".

I don't think Thai people are dull, as someone suggested in this thread, I think they don't always feel the urge to show others how smart they really are and most Thais also avoid conversations that could lead to long discussions about differences in opinion - but they are not dull.

I also don't agree that monks are the most educated people of the country. Being a monk is still a kind of "social insurance". If you don't know any way out - you can still become a monk. Very much depends on the temple and the location of the temple. I know very smart monks, but I also know quite a lot of monks that would totally fail in building a life outside the temple. (My daily life is very related to temples because of the family business).

I think before you plan to go to jail or become a monk to study Thai, you should consider trying to study in a school and/or via books and self-study. This will help you a lot if you end up in a jail or temple later on.

Edited December 3, 2012 by kriswillems

[GarryP]

I recommend recording and listening to yourself. Brutal, but effective.

The very thought horrifies me. I speak Thai 90- 95 percent of the time, and my level is quite high, but there are some words I keep pronouncing incorrectly even after years of trying to get them right. And, I am sure, there will be words that I believe I am pronouncing correctly, which are far from it. If I listened to myself, I would probably be very reluctant to speak the language again, which is just not on as I need the language for work.

I used to think I could sing until I recorded myself and replayed the tape many years ago. I certainly learned that I cannot carry a tune. Luckily, I learned long before karaoke became popular. Many other could do with listening to themselves before singing in public. Karaoke may then be a much more enjoyable experience.

[Neeranam]

With motivation and talent, it is possible to learn to read out regular Thai words properly in a month if you apply yourself to it full time, 8+ hours per day.

It took me 6 months to have broken the code, but then I was studying general linguistics and other aspects of Thai at the same time, and spending a little too much of my time drinking masala chai and chain smoking. If we had focused exclusively on the reading, 1 month would have been possible.

Of course, even after the stage of having learned regularly spelt words, you still have all the irregular words to tackle. And in advanced texts, there are many.

Rikker Dockum who used to post regularly in this forum was a speed learner, he was chatting away with ease online in written Thai after just one year. So they're around alright.

I studied for 60 minutes every day. I used the AUA workbook. I think there were 60 lessons - each one taking 30 minutes.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Neeranam

[rct99q]

Have lived in Isan for three years and learned Laos first. Then proceeded to Thai. I can speak french (canadian) and spanish. It will take me 2 lifetimes to speak at 90% fluency I think (if ever). I do okay though.

I did however meet a guest at a resort who spoke the best Thai I have ever heard from a non native speaker. To the extent that my wife and her two friends (thai) actually turned around to talk to him as they thought he was Thai. Turns out he was from Italy and learned speaking Thai by singing songs all day long. He claimed he learned pitch and tone from listening and signing along with them.

The benefits to reading Thai (if you live here) are tremendous. Driving down the highway, or picking up a newspaper, reading a menu and not having to ask the wife...what's this...every time. For me it has provided some freedom.

One of first times I had used my newly acquired skill was when a Thai neighbor passed a note onto my wife asking for something. I read the note and asked them what time was the delivery expected. The neighbor then realized I had read the note and answered in Thai. We were both amazed. It actually felt really good to have interacted with one of neighbors in a way you would back home in the west.

[leosmith]

Turns out he was from Italy and learned speaking Thai by singing songs all day long. He claimed he learned pitch and tone from listening and signing along with them.

Unlikely for any language, and impossible for Thai, since it's tonal.