Ballot - Only Way To True Democracy: Thailand

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE

Ballot - only way to true democracy

Avudh Panananda

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- A government critic recently gave an interview, published in Manager Online edition, outlining his thoughts on the political maladies stemming from the flawed political system.

In the view of Bunjerd Singkaneti, Thailand has a facade of democracy, but its political system is flawed, dominated by the monopolistic capitalism introduced and advanced by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Bunjerd, also dean of the Law School at the National Institute of Development Administration, and like-minded academics have been ardent critics of the Thaksin regime since 2005.

They joined the yellow shirts in their crusade against Thaksin, which culminated in the 2006 coup. After the Pheu Thai Party won the 2011 general election, they formed Siam Pracha Piwat, an advocacy group of yellow-shirt academics, in January.

Although the group was seen as an antidote to the red-shirt Pracharat, its true mission was to uproot the populist policies championed by Thaksin and implemented by the Yingluck Shinawatra government.

Soon after Siam Pracha Piwat came on the scene, Pitak Siam was formed to mobilise the masses. The two worked as allies of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

Bunjerd is particularly critical of populist policies, including the rice-pledging scheme, because he sees populism as a tool of Thaksin and his cronies to plunder the country.

He believes populism is just a fancy way of bribing voters for their support, allowing the government to cling to power. This, in turn, will pave the way for cronies to enrich themselves from state spending projects.

He contends that monopolistic capitalism, if allowed to thrive, will wreak havoc on the economy and fair business practices.

The populist policies are like a few bones thrown to the underprivileged, while the political fat cats enjoy a lavish feast.

In Bunjerd's opinion, the Yingluck government is essentially the Thaksin regime reincarnated, because it too has been trying to exert influence over the judiciary and independent organisations in order to consolidate power at the expense of the system of checks and balances.

For almost a year, Bunjerd and Siam Pracha Piwat have been the brains behind the PAD and Pitak Siam, spearheading the awareness campaign to expose the flaws of populism.

Opponents might have been right in their critique of Thaksin's leadership and his populist policies. But they have no justification to call for military intervention to oust what they see as "rogue" government.

Furthermore, they condone a power seizure as the last resort if democratic measures, including the awareness campaign, fail to sway sentiment away from populism.

It is a mystery why a group of highly educated and sophisticated democracy advocates should envision a coup as a remedy to rectify and purify democracy.

It is also a big puzzle that the yellow shirts opt to analyse Thai democracy through the Marxist theory of monopolistic capitalism, while the red shirts are promoting their democratic red book modelled after Mao Zedong's handbook on the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

If the Thaksin regime and the Yingluck administration were lethal to democratic rule, then the power seizure is equally a cardinal sin. Two wrongs would not add up to a right, but only worsen the situation.

Populism in other democracies, including the United States, has always proved to be just a phase, which fades away following a series of elections.

If Thailand is to remain firmly on the path of democracy, all sides have to struggle through the ballot box. There is no other way.

-- The Nation 2012-11- 30

[jaltsc]

Actually, the best way to achieve this goal is to have a highly educated electorate. When people do not have the ability to solve problems intellectually, they resort to violence in order to achieve change. Considering the educational system in Thailand...The writing is on the wall.

[bigbamboo]

It's an old quote but it largely remains a truism...... every nation gets the government it deserves.

As mentioned above education and more importantly the freedom to challenge the status quo is crucial to the development of any country, it's people and it's democracy.

We see it happening around the world but sadly not in our beloved Thailand.

[Moruya]

Actually, the best way to achieve this goal is to have a highly educated electorate. When people do not have the ability to solve problems intellectually, they resort to violence in order to achieve change. Considering the educational system in Thailand...The writing is on the wall.

Part of that education would need to be a chapter on corruption and theft. One of Thailand's biggest problems is the belief that if it makes you successful, you're a hero rather than a villain.

[smutcakes]

I think everyone is aware of the current issues and the reason Thaksin has been so popular and successful. I would be interested to hear his viable solutions to the problem though rather than just the problems and reasons which we all know anyway- that would be what would make him a great academic.

[Thai at Heart]

Monpoly capitalism, populism and marxism all in the same article.

Give me a while to digest that one.

[Mosha]

IIRC, one of the army's stated aims at the last coup. Was to educate people how a true democracy works. It's a shame they didn't carry out that intention.

[jayboy]

Actually, the best way to achieve this goal is to have a highly educated electorate. When people do not have the ability to solve problems intellectually, they resort to violence in order to achieve change. Considering the educational system in Thailand...The writing is on the wall.

Er, not really.Most of the worlds democracies achieved that position when their populations were at least as poorly educated as that of Thailand - in some cases much less educated.In any event you are confusing education with intelligence, specifically the ability of rural people to perceive which politicians/party are more likely to improve voters material prospects.In Thailand the sections which have more often resorted to violence are the unelected elites, the army and their supporters (eg Red Gaurs in 1976) whether through military coups or repressive violence.

[Zooheekock]

When people do not have the ability to solve problems intellectually, they resort to violence in order to achieve change.

The most violent chapter of recent Thai history was written by someone who went to Eton and Oxford.

[Thai at Heart]

dominated by the monopolistic capitalism introduced and advanced by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

So I presume he will support liberalising all those industries that are off limits to foreign companies? Considering AIS was in a monopoly situation, charging enormous amounts for phones and had it taken away, I would suggest that this academic, go away and understand markets a little better.

He contends that monopolistic capitalism, if allowed to thrive, will wreak havoc on the economy and fair business practices.

I would suggest that it may be the "old" money capitalists who hide behind the protectionist measures afforded by the Thai legal system might have their nickers in a twist about any possible liberalisation that PTP might start? Say what you like about the rest of the article, but I really can't see what markets Thaksin has monopolised? Unless he is talking about the government rice scheme, in which case this is governmental monopoly, not capitalist monopoly. Or is he referring to preventing competition for government business and channeling it to only Thaksin's friends?

There is plenty wrong with PTP ideas, but claiming that PTP is in some way out to monopolise business, when the PAD ran and ran on a nationalist protectionist statement about his sale of his company to a foreign entity, I would suggest he is being just a tad disengenuous.

[Zooheekock]

He contends that monopolistic capitalism, if allowed to thrive, will wreak havoc on the economy and fair business practices.

Best great cracking on breaking up Siam Cement then - that has a good 30+% market share, which is enough to be considered a monopoly in many places. Oh no, hang on a sec....

[h90]

it is a circle.....a vote buying corrupt government won't make laws against corruption and vote buying.

Without separation of power they won't get in troubles anyway.

Have a look to the East Europe Communist countries or to North Korea.....East Europe Communist parties didn't fall on the ballot boxes.

Maybe in North Korea they will vote out Kim, in the next 20-100 votes....we only need to wait.

[Thai at Heart]

it is a circle.....a vote buying corrupt government won't make laws against corruption and vote buying.

Without separation of power they won't get in troubles anyway.

Have a look to the East Europe Communist countries or to North Korea.....East Europe Communist parties didn't fall on the ballot boxes.

Maybe in North Korea they will vote out Kim, in the next 20-100 votes....we only need to wait.

Indeed, this is the big issue, but its been around forever here.

Big job to clean it up, but in time it will. That said, if the rice mess doesn't get sorted out sometime soon, there will be a lot of grumbles in the countryside anyway.

[jayboy]

it is a circle.....a vote buying corrupt government won't make laws against corruption and vote buying.

Without separation of power they won't get in troubles anyway.

Have a look to the East Europe Communist countries or to North Korea.....East Europe Communist parties didn't fall on the ballot boxes.

Maybe in North Korea they will vote out Kim, in the next 20-100 votes....we only need to wait.

Stupid comparison.In neither Eastern Europe under communism nor North Korea have there been free elections so your examples are meaningless.You seem to be saying that in Thailand vote buying nullifies elections? If so show hard evidence since no reputable source agrees with you - including the Democrat opposition, international observers, political analysts etc.If you are not saying this then stop alluding to it as a major consideration.In practice of course the unelected elites prefer the majority to be uneducated and ignorant as it leaves them in total command, particularly when taken in context of Thailand's deferential culture.That's why they loathe Thaksin because one of their own (well almost) pulled the plug on the status quo.

[bigbamboo]

it is a circle.....a vote buying corrupt government won't make laws against corruption and vote buying.

Without separation of power they won't get in troubles anyway.

Have a look to the East Europe Communist countries or to North Korea.....East Europe Communist parties didn't fall on the ballot boxes.

Maybe in North Korea they will vote out Kim, in the next 20-100 votes....we only need to wait.

Who is going to vote out the sexiest leader in the world?

And I don't mean Yingluck!

[pedro01]

Good article.

Whilst many want to intervene right now, I personally think that the PTP machine needs to be left to crash Thailand economy. Sure, it will be painful, heads will roll. At the end of the day, all these coups, judicial or military, just perpetuate the current situation.

That isn't to say the corrupt shouldn't be named, shamed & imprisoned. Just that you need to let PTP implode on its own.

Edited November 30, 2012 by pedro01

[hellodolly]

I think everyone is aware of the current issues and the reason Thaksin has been so popular and successful. I would be interested to hear his viable solutions to the problem though rather than just the problems and reasons which we all know anyway- that would be what would make him a great academic.

Reread the article he did give the solution.

"If Thailand is to remain firmly on the path of democracy, all sides have to struggle through the ballot box. There is no other way."

[jonclark]

Actually, the best way to achieve this goal is to have a highly educated electorate. When people do not have the ability to solve problems intellectually, they resort to violence in order to achieve change. Considering the educational system in Thailand...The writing is on the wall.

Sure the electorate need to be educated and Thailand really needs a much improved system of education - which probably allows life long learning to continue. with retraining and additional skills as people go through life.

I also think hand-in-hand with improved education needs to be a completely independent Justice system

[jayboy]

Good article.

Whilst many want to intervene right now, I personally think that the PTP machine needs to be left to crash Thailand economy. Sure, it will be painful, heads will roll. At the end of the day, all these coups, judicial or military, just perpetuate the current situation.

That isn't to say the corrupt shouldn't be named, shamed & imprisoned. Just that you need to let PTP implode on its own.

What is it about this thread? Another absurd and profoundly stupid post.The Thai economy is not on the verge of crashing but is in contrast doing extremely well.It's fine to criticise this government but the level of ignorance and/or downright dishonesty is unacceptable.Being charitable I suspect part of the problem is sheer ignorance and a lack of comprehension of how the Thai economy is managed.Firstly there is no real difference between the political parties on essentials and secondly there is a very high level of competence and independence with senior officials in the Ministry of Finance and Bank of Thailand.Thirdly there is the remarkable Thai corporate and banking sector which despite global vicissitudes is doing extremely well.In short the Thai economy is in great shape.

Don't take my word for it.Khun Korn who is the most formidable critic of the current government says virtually the same thing.

http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2012-11-26/ex-thai-fin-dot-min-on-the-state-of-the-thai-economy#r=lr-fst

[DocN]

IIRC, one of the army's stated aims at the last coup. Was to educate people how a true democracy works. It's a shame they didn't carry out that intention.

They didn't carry it out, because they never had that intention!

No one ever has...and by the way: without proper education, freedom of speech, press and expression and letting go of many traditions...it makes no sense anyways!

[osiboy]

democracy is slowly slipping away from us all especially in the west, our political leaders will tell us that voting will give us democracy but thats a lie , it only brings change to parties to get power that are almost the same anyway, ....unions have been broken all over europe and the US , and recently in the uk there was a new post being created for someone to oversee the police as people were not happy with the police complaints commitee , ....Simon weston ,a hero from the falklands war put his name forward and was looking favorite to win , THEN it came to light that he had been arrested for a minor offence as a teenager and was ruled out of the contest , for a minor offence 35 yrs previously ! forget the millions he has raised for charities and the fact he was burned so severely fighting for his country he was unrecognisable,..... the people could not have who they wanted becouse he was a naughty boy , call that a democracy .................PATHETIC ! , the govt knew he would do a good job investigating any irregularities or misconduct,.........we would'nt want that now would we ?

strikes, demonstrations, free speech , are all in line to be illegal in the near future .

Edited November 30, 2012 by osiboy

[NCFC]

No one has remarked on this comment from the 'brains' behind Pad and Pitak Siam:

"Furthermore, they condone a power seizure as the last resort if democratic measures, including the awareness campaign, fail to sway sentiment away from populism."

Very scary, either see things my way or I will force you to see things my way. Pol Pot would have been proud of these guys.

[Moruya]

Good article.

Whilst many want to intervene right now, I personally think that the PTP machine needs to be left to crash Thailand economy. Sure, it will be painful, heads will roll. At the end of the day, all these coups, judicial or military, just perpetuate the current situation.

That isn't to say the corrupt shouldn't be named, shamed & imprisoned. Just that you need to let PTP implode on its own.

What is it about this thread? Another absurd and profoundly stupid post.The Thai economy is not on the verge of crashing but is in contrast doing extremely well.It's fine to criticise this government but the level of ignorance and/or downright dishonesty is unacceptable.Being charitable I suspect part of the problem is sheer ignorance and a lack of comprehension of how the Thai economy is managed.Firstly there is no real difference between the political parties on essentials and secondly there is a very high level of competence and independence with senior officials in the Ministry of Finance and Bank of Thailand.Thirdly there is the remarkable Thai corporate and banking sector which despite global vicissitudes is doing extremely well.In short the Thai economy is in great shape.

Don't take my word for it.Khun Korn who is the most formidable critic of the current government says virtually the same thing.

http://www.businessw...conomy#r=lr-fst

Selective lugholes as usual!

His comments are correct - the corporate world is strong.

His comments on government debt are also correct. If it continues to climb at the present rate then it will soon reach levels of unsustainability in the same manner that Greece, Spain, Portugal have done and Thailand does not have a very strong tax-paying base - and even that is being battered by the car/house buying schemes and reduction in corporate tax.

Add to that the sharply increasing wages, the subsequent loss of regional competitive edge in some industries and outflux of manufacturing to neighbouring countries, it will all add up to the perfect storm.

[Moruya]

No one has remarked on this comment from the 'brains' behind Pad and Pitak Siam:

"Furthermore, they condone a power seizure as the last resort if democratic measures, including the awareness campaign, fail to sway sentiment away from populism."

Very scary, either see things my way or I will force you to see things my way. Pol Pot would have been proud of these guys.

The Red Shirts aspire to Pol Pot's model. They want the Democrats done away with and a single party state. That's scary.

[Zooheekock]

The Red Shirts aspire to Pol Pot's model.

That'll be why the great cry of 2010 was // Thai script removed //, right?

Edited November 30, 2012 by metisdead
: This is an English language forum, if you want to post in Thai, go over to the Thai language forum.

[Thai at Heart]

Good article

Whilst many want to intervene right now, I personally think that the PTP machine needs to be left to crash Thailand economy. Sure, it will be painful, heads will roll. At the end of the day, all these coups, judicial or military, just perpetuate the current situation.

That isn't to say the corrupt shouldn't be named, shamed & imprisoned. Just that you need to let PTP implode on its own.

What is it about this thread? Another absurd and profoundly stupid post.The Thai economy is not on the verge of crashing but is in contrast doing extremely well.It's fine to criticise this government but the level of ignorance and/or downright dishonesty is unacceptable.Being charitable I suspect part of the problem is sheer ignorance and a lack of comprehension of how the Thai economy is managed.Firstly there is no real difference between the political parties on essentials and secondly there is a very high level of competence and independence with senior officials in the Ministry of Finance and Bank of Thailand.Thirdly there is the remarkable Thai corporate and banking sector which despite global vicissitudes is doing extremely well.In short the Thai economy is in great shape.

Don't take my word for it.Khun Korn who is the most formidable critic of the current government says virtually the same thing.

http://www.businessw...conomy#r=lr-fst

Selective lugholes as usual!

His comments are correct - the corporate world is strong.

His comments on government debt are also correct. If it continues to climb at the present rate then it will soon reach levels of unsustainability in the same manner that Greece, Spain, Portugal have done and Thailand does not have a very strong tax-paying base - and even that is being battered by the car/house buying schemes and reduction in corporate tax.

Add to that the sharply increasing wages, the subsequent loss of regional competitive edge in some industries and outflux of manufacturing to neighbouring countries, it will all add up to the perfect storm.

It will take quite a while to get to the level of debt of some in the eurozone.

I do wish they would focus more on education. this is the fundamental future of the country.

[pedro01]

Good article.

Whilst many want to intervene right now, I personally think that the PTP machine needs to be left to crash Thailand economy. Sure, it will be painful, heads will roll. At the end of the day, all these coups, judicial or military, just perpetuate the current situation.

That isn't to say the corrupt shouldn't be named, shamed & imprisoned. Just that you need to let PTP implode on its own.

What is it about this thread? Another absurd and profoundly stupid post.The Thai economy is not on the verge of crashing but is in contrast doing extremely well.It's fine to criticise this government but the level of ignorance and/or downright dishonesty is unacceptable.Being charitable I suspect part of the problem is sheer ignorance and a lack of comprehension of how the Thai economy is managed.Firstly there is no real difference between the political parties on essentials and secondly there is a very high level of competence and independence with senior officials in the Ministry of Finance and Bank of Thailand.Thirdly there is the remarkable Thai corporate and banking sector which despite global vicissitudes is doing extremely well.In short the Thai economy is in great shape.

Don't take my word for it.Khun Korn who is the most formidable critic of the current government says virtually the same thing.

http://www.businessw...conomy#r=lr-fst

WOW - ignorant? Absurd? Lack of comprehension?

I guess we could ignore the massive amount of money siphoned off the fund for flood prevention, that was after all a one-off. The amount I've seen quoted as being siphoned off is roughly US$1bn. Let's ignore the amount but not ignore the fact that this is going on.

If we ignore that and just focus on the rice scheme, this single policy alone is enough to crash the Thai economy. When the government has no money to pay civil servants families, the army, navy, police, hospitals, railways will all grind to a halt. If you think that the private sector will just carry on when this occurs, you are mistaken.

That aside, if you skim 30c on the dollar from all infrastructure projects, then you simply won't have the logistical capacity in Thailand to keep up with the rapid developments in neighbouring countries. For 10 years academics in the logistics field have been crying out for Thailand to make serious investments in road and rail because low labour rates just don't cut it here any more.

Now - if you have another scenario in mind as an outcome of the government decimating the coffers in this way and not putting money where it is needed, I'd love to hear it.

If possible, try to reply without the insults.

Edited November 30, 2012 by pedro01

[Thai at Heart]

Good article.

Whilst many want to intervene right now, I personally think that the PTP machine needs to be left to crash Thailand economy. Sure, it will be painful, heads will roll. At the end of the day, all these coups, judicial or military, just perpetuate the current situation.

That isn't to say the corrupt shouldn't be named, shamed & imprisoned. Just that you need to let PTP implode on its own.

What is it about this thread? Another absurd and profoundly stupid post.The Thai economy is not on the verge of crashing but is in contrast doing extremely well.It's fine to criticise this government but the level of ignorance and/or downright dishonesty is unacceptable.Being charitable I suspect part of the problem is sheer ignorance and a lack of comprehension of how the Thai economy is managed.Firstly there is no real difference between the political parties on essentials and secondly there is a very high level of competence and independence with senior officials in the Ministry of Finance and Bank of Thailand.Thirdly there is the remarkable Thai corporate and banking sector which despite global vicissitudes is doing extremely well.In short the Thai economy is in great shape.

Don't take my word for it.Khun Korn who is the most formidable critic of the current government says virtually the same thing.

http://www.businessw...conomy#r=lr-fst

WOW - ignorant? Absurd? Lack of comprehension?

I guess we could ignore the massive amount of money siphoned off the fund for flood prevention, that was after all a one-off. The amount I've seen quoted as being siphoned off is roughly US$1bn

If we ignore that and just focus on the rice scheme, this single policy alone is enough to crash the Thai economy. When the government has no money to pay civil servants families, the army, navy, police, hospitals, railways will all grind to a halt. If you think that the private sector will just carry on when this occurs, you are mistaken.

Now - if you have another scenario in mind as an outcome of the government decimating the coffers in this way, I'd love to hear it.

If possible, try to reply without the insults.

Yes it's huge corruption, but to get the cash out of the country is actually quite hard.

Funnily enough, it will probably get used more profitably in the medium term buying land, ferraris, mercs and building apartments than being used to builds a flood wall.

Sadly, the net effect on the economy of all this corruption is probably positive.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[pedro01]

Good article.

Whilst many want to intervene right now, I personally think that the PTP machine needs to be left to crash Thailand economy. Sure, it will be painful, heads will roll. At the end of the day, all these coups, judicial or military, just perpetuate the current situation.

That isn't to say the corrupt shouldn't be named, shamed & imprisoned. Just that you need to let PTP implode on its own.

What is it about this thread? Another absurd and profoundly stupid post.The Thai economy is not on the verge of crashing but is in contrast doing extremely well.It's fine to criticise this government but the level of ignorance and/or downright dishonesty is unacceptable.Being charitable I suspect part of the problem is sheer ignorance and a lack of comprehension of how the Thai economy is managed.Firstly there is no real difference between the political parties on essentials and secondly there is a very high level of competence and independence with senior officials in the Ministry of Finance and Bank of Thailand.Thirdly there is the remarkable Thai corporate and banking sector which despite global vicissitudes is doing extremely well.In short the Thai economy is in great shape.

Don't take my word for it.Khun Korn who is the most formidable critic of the current government says virtually the same thing.

http://www.businessw...conomy#r=lr-fst

WOW - ignorant? Absurd? Lack of comprehension?

I guess we could ignore the massive amount of money siphoned off the fund for flood prevention, that was after all a one-off. The amount I've seen quoted as being siphoned off is roughly US$1bn

If we ignore that and just focus on the rice scheme, this single policy alone is enough to crash the Thai economy. When the government has no money to pay civil servants families, the army, navy, police, hospitals, railways will all grind to a halt. If you think that the private sector will just carry on when this occurs, you are mistaken.

Now - if you have another scenario in mind as an outcome of the government decimating the coffers in this way, I'd love to hear it.

If possible, try to reply without the insults.

Yes it's huge corruption, but to get the cash out of the country is actually quite hard.

Funnily enough, it will probably get used more profitably in the medium term buying land, ferraris, mercs and building apartments than being used to builds a flood wall.

Sadly, the net effect on the economy of all this corruption is probably positive.

Not really - for YOU to get cash out of the country is quite hard.

For the corrupt to do it - no problem.

[chrisrazz]

I find it quite ironic that a leading academic bemoans that the uneducated don't know what they are voting for. Where did he get his education and how was it paid for? The so called elite of Thailand have had control over the government whether it by coup or by elections for decades. The government is responsible for education isn't it? What have these people been doing all that time? Teaching kids to do what they are told, that's what. There is nothing in schools that encourages free thought or creativity. Meanwhile, the elite send all their kids overseas, and as such believe themselves superior. Perhaps in the belief that a controlled uneducated mass, that provides cheap labour is good for the country as a whole, when really we know who it is good for.

If anyone has been to Prachaub KIri Khan and read of the heroic stand of a handful of Thai servicemen and their wives against a Japanese invasion force in WW2, only to be told by the then government to surrender, which resulted in the Japanese invasion of Burma, Malaya, Singapore and almost down to Australia, meanwhile consigning not only the people of those nations to occupation and all that went with it, the slavery and death of hundreds of thousands of Thais, when perhaps the resistance of Thailand, a supposed ally, could have enabled the others to organise and prepare for war, could have saved even more lives?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Thailand

Probably of similar ilk to those now 'who know what's best for Thailand'.