Benelli Tnt 600 Inline-Four

[Richard-BKK]

When I looked at the Benelli 600 at the Pattaya showroom there wasn't one part of the bike that didn't look very good to excellent. The paint, the seat trim, the chrome, the welding, the detail work....everything was spot on. The engine is a proven Yamaha design. What's not to like....well the price! Why anyone would pay CB650 money for a bike made in China, I don't know. Yes I know it has a Benelli badge on it, but so what.

If it was 199.000 baht they couldn't make enough. If it was 230k baht they would still sell like hotcakes. But at a tidge short of 300k baht..............

For the last time, the engine of the Benelli BN600 is not based on a Yamaha design. First the engine not looks the same, second any specs with early Yamaha YZF-R6 engines are completely incompatible.

So please explain why you think that the engine is a Yamaha design?

[Gweiloman]

When I looked at the Benelli 600 at the Pattaya showroom there wasn't one part of the bike that didn't look very good to excellent. The paint, the seat trim, the chrome, the welding, the detail work....everything was spot on. The engine is a proven Yamaha design. What's not to like....well the price! Why anyone would pay CB650 money for a bike made in China, I don't know. Yes I know it has a Benelli badge on it, but so what.

If it was 199.000 baht they couldn't make enough. If it was 230k baht they would still sell like hotcakes. But at a tidge short of 300k baht..............

For the last time, the engine of the Benelli BN600 is not based on a Yamaha design. First the engine not looks the same, second any specs with early Yamaha YZF-R6 engines are completely incompatible.

So please explain why you think that the engine is a Yamaha design?

I think BSJ meant it in a positive way when he said that it was a proven (Yamaha) engine.

Just out of curiousity, given the image that Benelli has (China made bike etc etc), what are the positives of the Benelli over similar 600-650 cc bikes from Honda / Kawasaki / Suzuki / Yamaha? Japanese made bikes have a rock solid reputation and for a similar price point, why does one buy a Benelli? Take into account as well, dealer and servicing network, resale value, aftermarket parts.

Would you care to enlighten me?

[Richard-BKK]

When I looked at the Benelli 600 at the Pattaya showroom there wasn't one part of the bike that didn't look very good to excellent. The paint, the seat trim, the chrome, the welding, the detail work....everything was spot on. The engine is a proven Yamaha design. What's not to like....well the price! Why anyone would pay CB650 money for a bike made in China, I don't know. Yes I know it has a Benelli badge on it, but so what.

If it was 199.000 baht they couldn't make enough. If it was 230k baht they would still sell like hotcakes. But at a tidge short of 300k baht..............

For the last time, the engine of the Benelli BN600 is not based on a Yamaha design. First the engine not looks the same, second any specs with early Yamaha YZF-R6 engines are completely incompatible.

So please explain why you think that the engine is a Yamaha design?

I think BSJ meant it in a positive way when he said that it was a proven (Yamaha) engine.

Just out of curiousity, given the image that Benelli has (China made bike etc etc), what are the positives of the Benelli over similar 600-650 cc bikes from Honda / Kawasaki / Suzuki / Yamaha? Japanese made bikes have a rock solid reputation and for a similar price point, why does one buy a Benelli? Take into account as well, dealer and servicing network, resale value, aftermarket parts.

Would you care to enlighten me?

What is positive about something if it's not true?

[ll2]

When I looked at the Benelli 600 at the Pattaya showroom there wasn't one part of the bike that didn't look very good to excellent. The paint, the seat trim, the chrome, the welding, the detail work....everything was spot on. The engine is a proven Yamaha design. What's not to like....well the price! Why anyone would pay CB650 money for a bike made in China, I don't know. Yes I know it has a Benelli badge on it, but so what.

If it was 199.000 baht they couldn't make enough. If it was 230k baht they would still sell like hotcakes. But at a tidge short of 300k baht..............

For the last time, the engine of the Benelli BN600 is not based on a Yamaha design. First the engine not looks the same, second any specs with early Yamaha YZF-R6 engines are completely incompatible.

So please explain why you think that the engine is a Yamaha design?

I think BSJ meant it in a positive way when he said that it was a proven (Yamaha) engine.

Just out of curiousity, given the image that Benelli has (China made bike etc etc), what are the positives of the Benelli over similar 600-650 cc bikes from Honda / Kawasaki / Suzuki / Yamaha? Japanese made bikes have a rock solid reputation and for a similar price point, why does one buy a Benelli? Take into account as well, dealer and servicing network, resale value, aftermarket parts.

Would you care to enlighten me?

What is positive about something if it's not true?

dont answer questions with questions richard.

just answer frankly, we would like to know.

[Gweiloman]

When I looked at the Benelli 600 at the Pattaya showroom there wasn't one part of the bike that didn't look very good to excellent. The paint, the seat trim, the chrome, the welding, the detail work....everything was spot on. The engine is a proven Yamaha design. What's not to like....well the price! Why anyone would pay CB650 money for a bike made in China, I don't know. Yes I know it has a Benelli badge on it, but so what.

If it was 199.000 baht they couldn't make enough. If it was 230k baht they would still sell like hotcakes. But at a tidge short of 300k baht..............

For the last time, the engine of the Benelli BN600 is not based on a Yamaha design. First the engine not looks the same, second any specs with early Yamaha YZF-R6 engines are completely incompatible.

So please explain why you think that the engine is a Yamaha design?

I think BSJ meant it in a positive way when he said that it was a proven (Yamaha) engine.

Just out of curiousity, given the image that Benelli has (China made bike etc etc), what are the positives of the Benelli over similar 600-650 cc bikes from Honda / Kawasaki / Suzuki / Yamaha? Japanese made bikes have a rock solid reputation and for a similar price point, why does one buy a Benelli? Take into account as well, dealer and servicing network, resale value, aftermarket parts.

Would you care to enlighten me?

What is positive about something if it's not true?

Fine, so it's not true. I don't know and I don't particularly care either.

But I am genuinely interested to know what are the USP's of the Benelli over more established and socially better known makes, especially when they are all selling at similar prices (which is BSJ's point).

I can understand that a BMW / Ducati / KTM sells for more (even taking away the import and excise duties). I can even understand why some would pay more for a HD, for the image it portrays (there's no accounting for taste - just joking). But a Benelli is ........ a Benelli. Seriously, how many people would choose a Benelli over other makes when they are priced at similar levels? Unless of course Benelli is only interested in the niche market.

Case in point - Bugatti at over a million a pop, is not bothered to sell as many numbers as Porsches or Ferraris. Similarly, an antique shop is not intending to sell as many chairs and cabinets as Ikea. What's Benelli's marketing strategy? Mass market or niche market? Serious, real sportbike lovers or a rider than can afford to buy a big bike?

[ktm jeff]

Sorry , i didnt mean to cause confusion with a previous post . I was told the engine design was based on an earlier Yamaha R6 unit , and im a member of the Benelli club !!.I dont think of it as a posotive or negative that Benelli did or didnt design the engine (they are more than capable of designing great engines, remember the "SIX").Benelli seems to be going for two markets , the up and coming Asia market with the smaller bikes , say up to 600cc , and the niche market with the Italian built bikes , TNT , Tornado etc.Gweiloman , im the fool who WOULD pay the same or more for a Benelli , just because i can , and im different. This is only my opinion as to why i like particular bikes. Many / most wont agree. I accept that.

[Gweiloman]

Sorry , i didnt mean to cause confusion with a previous post . I was told the engine design was based on an earlier Yamaha R6 unit , and im a member of the Benelli club !!.I dont think of it as a posotive or negative that Benelli did or didnt design the engine (they are more than capable of designing great engines, remember the "SIX").Benelli seems to be going for two markets , the up and coming Asia market with the smaller bikes , say up to 600cc , and the niche market with the Italian built bikes , TNT , Tornado etc.Gweiloman , im the fool who WOULD pay the same or more for a Benelli , just because i can , and im different. This is only my opinion as to why i like particular bikes. Many / most wont agree. I accept that.

No one can be called a fool for buying something they desire (regardless of what it costs) especially if they can afford it! If so, I would be a bigger fool, owning (at one time), a car, a pickup and 5 bikes and not actually having much time to either ride or drive. Since then, I've sold the car, haha.

Good on you for buying what YOU want and not what others say you should buy. Such an option is not available to all and some makes decisions mainly according to their head and not their heart.

However, I would still like to know what are the plus points of the Benelli vs other makes.

[mania]

However, I would still like to know what are the plus points of the Benelli vs other makes.

Having not owned one I cannot say 1st hand

But my guess would be "name", "Brand Loyalty" aside............

One can look & see components are better ( on paper) than what it is competing against.

But again without 1st hand experience one cannot say for instance their USD forks are better than the spindly

but reliable forks on their competition (By Competition I am guessing folks looking at these are also looking at Honda 500,650 & Kawasaki 650 )

Other things exists such as braided lines etc...

Some models & I am not sure if it is the ones sold here also sport decent stock Metzler rubber etc

Lastly & again on paper alone some of their stats are better such as PWR compared to their main rivals

Then as KTMJeff said at the end of the day it is what floats your boat that matters as none here are wringing

every last hp out of these

Edited October 12, 2014 by mania

[Gweiloman]

However, I would still like to know what are the plus points of the Benelli vs other makes.

Having not owned one I cannot say 1st hand

But my guess would be "name", "Brand Loyalty" aside............

One can look & see components are better ( on paper) than what it is competing against.

But again without 1st hand experience one cannot say for instance their USD forks are better than the spindly

but reliable forks on their competition (By Competition I am guessing folks looking at these are also looking at Honda 500,650 & Kawasaki 650 )

Other things exists such as braided lines etc...

Some models & I am not sure if it is the ones sold here also sport decent stock Metzler rubber etc

Lastly & again on paper alone some of their stats are better such as PWR compared to their main rivals

Then as KTMJeff said at the end of the day it is what floats your boat that matters as none here are wringing

every last hp out of these

Thanks Mania, interesting.

So far, have not seen any Benellis out on track (lots of ER6's, CBR's). It would be nice to see a Benelli out there and how it stacks up against the comp.

[Dutchbike]

As more people say: choosing a bike is not always a matter of "common sense" what is the best value for the money, most reliable bike etc etc. While many play it safe, and choose an esthablished brand/model others choose "different" maybe they like that particular bike more or they just want to ride something less common, and take a lesser quality/reliablity for grantage, some might call it "character"

In Holland I drove all my life various Alfa Romeo cars, which were not always that reliable, but there was something about them which kept me coming back for more :-)

Maybe it's Benelli's long interesting history what attracks people to buy them. Haven't almost all big brands been eaten by large companies mostly it only improves the quality.

Back then Benelli made nice bikes but they were not really that good/reliable,but had character.

beaufitul vintage racer based on a sei

[ll2]

biggezt reason for my friend on buying the benelli is the 3 months gueue for cb650f at bigwing for example.

but i believe benelli 600 is a proper bike and nothing wrong on buying one. some people might love its italian genes, sound etc.

i found cb 650f overall offers a better ride than benelli. but benelli twin pipes sound better.

benelli sure is expensive here when its price is same as cb650.

hope benelli sells it at 199 - 220 k thb soon than OK bargain.

[BSJ]

When I looked at the Benelli 600 at the Pattaya showroom there wasn't one part of the bike that didn't look very good to excellent. The paint, the seat trim, the chrome, the welding, the detail work....everything was spot on. The engine is a proven Yamaha design. What's not to like....well the price! Why anyone would pay CB650 money for a bike made in China, I don't know. Yes I know it has a Benelli badge on it, but so what.

If it was 199.000 baht they couldn't make enough. If it was 230k baht they would still sell like hotcakes. But at a tidge short of 300k baht..............

For the last time, the engine of the Benelli BN600 is not based on a Yamaha design. First the engine not looks the same, second any specs with early Yamaha YZF-R6 engines are completely incompatible.

So please explain why you think that the engine is a Yamaha design?

Look at the pixs. One can only assume the Chinese have a license to copy the design externally and internally...or is it a matter of "oops, ours looks just like theirs!"

[ktm jeff]

My reasons for prefering Benelli over some of the more established brands is mainly the unmistakable Italian styling and panache their bikes exude. I also like to be a bit different from the mainstream buyers , still has to be reliable though. I dont consider myself a show-off , but i want a bike that stands out from the grey masses.Brand loyalty is fine and good if the bike is good enougth for its intended use , but im not that brand loyal i would buy any Benelli if it didnt turn me on.Or any other bike make , come to that. The big name quality components of the brakes (Brembo) , wheels (forged in my case) , susspension (with full high and low speed adjustment) ,carbon bodywork , and the Italian style and the passionate roar of the engine , all do it for me.I expect to pay more for the bike and its maintainence as a result of it been an exotic machine.The lads on "Top Gear" claim all proper drivers must have owned an Alfa , and i can see where they are coming from , but im not saying your not a "proper" biker if you havent owned a Benelli.Shame we dont see too many on the race track (which was what Benelli was so good at) but i believe the Benelli BN 600 would be beat by a Yamaha R6 in many cases. Its the style award that the Benelli takes home , not the race victory cup , and for me thats why i love all bikes - just some more than others.

Edited October 12, 2014 by ktm jeff

[BSJ]

I am not anti-Chinese. He11 everything I sell in Australia is Chinese made!

And I am thinking the Chinese are going full bore to hit the quality standards that Japanese makers achieve.

But if I was going to buy a Benelli it would be the the Trek or Trek Amazonas....with the Trek alloy wheels.

Of course it's more than triple the price! But it is pure class.

[Richard-BKK]

When I looked at the Benelli 600 at the Pattaya showroom there wasn't one part of the bike that didn't look very good to excellent. The paint, the seat trim, the chrome, the welding, the detail work....everything was spot on. The engine is a proven Yamaha design. What's not to like....well the price! Why anyone would pay CB650 money for a bike made in China, I don't know. Yes I know it has a Benelli badge on it, but so what.

If it was 199.000 baht they couldn't make enough. If it was 230k baht they would still sell like hotcakes. But at a tidge short of 300k baht..............

For the last time, the engine of the Benelli BN600 is not based on a Yamaha design. First the engine not looks the same, second any specs with early Yamaha YZF-R6 engines are completely incompatible.

So please explain why you think that the engine is a Yamaha design?

Look at the pixs. One can only assume the Chinese have a license to copy the design externally and internally...or is it a matter of "oops, ours looks just like theirs!"

Benelli 600 engine.JPGYamaha R6.JPG

IF you compare two boxes you would find many similar design features, but when it comes to complex mechanical devices like a inline-four 600cc motorcycle engine you have to look at much more than just the box, because with most inline-four engines the crankshaft is located at the same location, which means that the clutch is also located at the same place, the gears and the kickstarter and therefore the starter motor... You can find this in engines from Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki or even exotic motorcycle brands.

If the Benelli BN600 is using an engine copied from Yamaha, show us that it has the same specs, bore size, stroke length, cylinder firing, cylinder angle actually give us an example of a Yamaha YZF-R6 engine part that fits on the Benelli BN600 without modification. (with exception of spark-plugs... etc).

The truth is that many 600cc inline-four engines are very similar, and we can basically say that every motorcycle engine is a copy of the engine developed by Dr. Frederick W. Lanchester in 1911, yes that was a aircraft engine, but early aircraft designed engines where perfect for the newly developed motorcycles...

[Richard-BKK]

A major difference is that the Yamaha valve chain for the Yamaha YZF-R6 runs at the right side of the engine, while the valve chain is by the Benelli BN600 located at the left side.

One more the engine oil pump is by the Benelli is powered by a chain on the left side, while by the Yamaha the engine oil pump is powered by a chain on the right side much deeper in the engine. (for instance to adjust the Yamaha chain tensioner you have to remove the oil pump...

Of course a few less mechanical people would say the Chinese could have modified the engine so that all parts are different and moved a few chains from right to left.... But the more technical people would have to admit that the differences with the Yamaha and Benelli engine would mean that it would cost Benelli probably more to modify a old Yamaha engine than build one from scratch...

Edited October 14, 2014 by Richard-BKK

[rambling]

I can see there are two versions of this bike, a j : http://www.benelli-thailand.co.th/motorcycle/bn600j/ and an i http://www.benelli-thailand.co.th/motorcycle/bn600i/

What's the difference between the two?

Personally I think they look great and sound fantastic. Seems on the heavy side though for the displacement.

[ll2]

one is European version and one is for poor Asian people - i believe when manufacturers do this, it is a discrimination and i mean it.

[rambling]

one is European version and one is for poor Asian people - i believe when manufacturers do this, it is a discrimination and i mean it.

Both sold in Thailand by the dealer? Do you know which one is which and price difference?

They're obviously not the only ones doing this, like Ducati with the 795 / 796.

Unfortunately also very prevalent in the car market where you seldom get the same specs across regions. Just try to buy a family sedan here with more than 4 airbags, not to mention 8..

[BSJ]

A major difference is that the Yamaha valve chain for the Yamaha YZF-R6 runs at the right side of the engine, while the valve chain is by the Benelli BN600 located at the left side.

One more the engine oil pump is by the Benelli is powered by a chain on the left side, while by the Yamaha the engine oil pump is powered by a chain on the right side much deeper in the engine. (for instance to adjust the Yamaha chain tensioner you have to remove the oil pump...

Of course a few less mechanical people would say the Chinese could have modified the engine so that all parts are different and moved a few chains from right to left.... But the more technical people would have to admit that the differences with the Yamaha and Benelli engine would mean that it would cost Benelli probably more to modify a old Yamaha engine than build one from scratch...

Well Richard I wasn't expecting the engine to be exactly the same. The R6 puts out more HP and Torque as it it a street racer engine not a sports bike engine.

And unless I've read the parts manual upside down the cam chain is on the right side of the BN600 engine. Check the valve gear drawing I lifted from the Benelli forum dot com.

Benelli BN600 Bore x Stroke : 65.0 x 45.2 Displacement : 600cc

R6 Pre 2006.. Bore x Stroke : 65.5 x 44.5 Displacement : 599.8cc

[Richard-BKK]

A major difference is that the Yamaha valve chain for the Yamaha YZF-R6 runs at the right side of the engine, while the valve chain is by the Benelli BN600 located at the left side.

One more the engine oil pump is by the Benelli is powered by a chain on the left side, while by the Yamaha the engine oil pump is powered by a chain on the right side much deeper in the engine. (for instance to adjust the Yamaha chain tensioner you have to remove the oil pump...

Of course a few less mechanical people would say the Chinese could have modified the engine so that all parts are different and moved a few chains from right to left.... But the more technical people would have to admit that the differences with the Yamaha and Benelli engine would mean that it would cost Benelli probably more to modify a old Yamaha engine than build one from scratch...

Well Richard I wasn't expecting the engine to be exactly the same. The R6 puts out more HP and Torque as it it a street racer engine not a sports bike engine.

And unless I've read the parts manual upside down the cam chain is on the right side of the BN600 engine. Check the valve gear drawing I lifted from the Benelli forum dot com.

Benelli BN600 valve ass.JPG

Benelli BN600 Bore x Stroke : 65.0 x 45.2 Displacement : 600cc

R6 Pre 2006.. Bore x Stroke : 65.5 x 44.5 Displacement : 599.8cc

BSJ,

You completely right, the Benelli chain is on the right side... and the Yamaha also, right? But still because two boxes look similar they not have to be based on the same design.

So what is the main indication that the Benelli engine is a copy of a Yamaha R6 engine, because the bore and stroke are similar? Then maybe it's a copy of a Suzuki engine? The Suzuki GSX-R600 engine from 1993 has exactly the same bore and stroke, but not much else can be compared with the Suzuki engine, so maybe it is based on a Honda engine, many Chinese copy Honda stuff right... and the Benelli BN600 has the oil-filter exactly where the Honda CBR600RR has it's oil-filter... So maybe they took the engine looks from Yamaha, borrowed the bore and stroke from Suzuki and used a few things from Honda and maybe even Kawasaki some bolts and nuts look very similar to what you can find in a Kawasaki engine...

Or the Benelli research and development department, which is located in Italy and has since the Chinese bought Benelli more staff (Italians) than before, have designed the engine themselves... They have some experience you know they're where one of the first to produce a inline-four engine in late 1911 (only about 8 months) after Dr. Frederick W. Lanchester showed the world it's inline-four airplane engine... Of course Benelli from Pesaro, Italy where at that time more into single and twin-engine motorcycle engines...

Here some pictures from the engines from Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki

Edited October 14, 2014 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

Maybe you can compare the Benelli engine better against the Honda CBR600 engine from this angle....

Edited October 14, 2014 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

The first time the Benelli inline-four was introduced to the public was in 2009, it was a futuristic motorcycle designed by a team of Italians with as project leader Mr. Pierluigi Marconi, who as you probably would imagined Bimota, oversaw development of the Tesi's hub-center steered front end at Bimota.

The futuristic hub steering was not approved by the new Chinese owners of Benelli as they needed a motorcycle that would be easily accepted. Hub steering was just to much of the main path for a budget motorcycle. Some say that Benelli copied also the frame from Aprilia but that is also not true, both the Aprilia and the BN600 are based on the same geometric as the Bimota Tesi (both also removed the hub steering).

The Benelli Quattro as the engine is officially called is fully designed developed in Italy by the same team of designers and engineers under the leadership of Mr. Pierluigi Marconi

Mr. Pierluigi Marconi designed motorcycles for Bimota, Aprilia, Piaggio Group plus a few more and also personally holds the patents on fuel injection system for two stroke engine low pressure, front steering system without front fork, combinated brake system.... and a few more...

And this guy borrowed a old Yamaha engine design, modified it and used it in a motorcycle that is sold as one of his babies....

The pictures are the first idea of the Benelli inline-four motorcycle from 2009 and the engine at the R&D in Italy... Maybe the legendary engine of the Aprilia RST1000 is also a copy as it's also designed by Mr. Pierluigi Marconi.... Currently Mr. Pierluigi Marconi works for Gas Gas an Italian off-road bike companies, probably also copying Yamaha engines.....

Edited October 14, 2014 by Richard-BKK

[MAZ3]

I was told many years ago that Honda(from a Honda warranty man)possibly the others)farm out some engine requirements etc from a 3rd party.

Could this be the reason that some engines are very similar?,from the same engine company!.

[Richard-BKK]

I was told many years ago that Honda(from a Honda warranty man)possibly the others)farm out some engine requirements etc from a 3rd party.

Could this be the reason that some engines are very similar?,from the same engine company!.

Motorcycle manufacturers are actually not making so much money as most people think, they basically bank on the fact that people need to buy parts to repair the motorcycle. But if a motorcycle manufacturer keeps the specifications for too long the same aftermarket manufacturers start to make the same parts and sell them often cheaper....

To keep making money, motorcycle manufacturers, mostly every 3-years change some specifications so that it's less interesting for 3th party parts manufacturers to make specific parts for that motorcycle. Of course not all manufacturers do this, or do it less visible and most do it only for the bodywork as that is the one that often get damaged and people might want to buy new fairing to look like the latest model....

So the small difference in specifications is often only for keep making money....

[BSJ]

Well Richard, with your reference to Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and some 4 cylinder made in 1911 I am leaning towards a conclusion that your trying to muddy the waters in this discussion.

I don't know if you have invested heavily in Benelli but your sure going full steam to disprove the link between the BN600 engine and the R6 engine.

I think that any engine copied from an excellent model like the R6 is a plus , not a minus. So from my point of view it doesn't matter whether it is or it isn't related to the R6.

[Richard-BKK]

Well Richard, with your reference to Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and some 4 cylinder made in 1911 I am leaning towards a conclusion that your trying to muddy the waters in this discussion.

I don't know if you have invested heavily in Benelli but your sure going full steam to disprove the link between the BN600 engine and the R6 engine.

I think that any engine copied from an excellent model like the R6 is a plus , not a minus. So from my point of view it doesn't matter whether it is or it isn't related to the R6.

Dear BSJ,

Sure you can try to get away with like Richard has invested heavy into Benelli Thailand. But, you're wrong, I not give a f.ck about Benelli. Actually, I agree with most critics that the Honda CB650F is currently the better choice, for the average rider.

I not into what looks better or what looks less good for a motorcycle, I look for what is the truth... and for the truth there is no selecting sides...

[Dutchbike]

for those interested another Benelli "engine copy story" from the old Benelli quattro 500 maybe a similair story with this new BN 600 engine?

All too often dismissed as an Italian facsimile of the CB500, the Benelli 500 Light Sport spices up the UJM concept like pepperoni on a pizza.

Selwyn Stickler is fed up with people telling him that his Benelli is just an Italian copy of a Honda CB500. Look, he says, Benelli didnt need to copy Honda to make a four. They were racing a 250cc inline four back in 1939 and whats more, it was liquid-cooled, supercharged and produced 52bhp at 10,000rpm. That was eight years before Soichiro Honda bolted a 50cc two-stroke generator engine to a bicycle frame, and 20 years before the first Japanese four-cylinder motorcycle. Who copied who?

Of course, Selwyn is right. The Italians have a long history of making four-cylinder motorcycles. When Benelli announced in 1960 that it had built a four-cylinder 250, some thought even that was an inferior copy of the RC160 which Honda had introduced a year earlier. But come on who believes that Benellis technicians ever got the chance to look inside an RC Honda?

Designed by Savelli, the racing air-cooled Benelli four used a 44mm bore (just like the RC160) and featured double overhead camshafts driven by a train of gears between the centre cylinders. A geared primary drive ran on the left side, between the first and second cylinders, with a six speed cluster and dry clutch. Although the Honda had 16 valves, the Benelli made do with eight but that didnt stop it spinning to 13,000rpm and developing 40bhp.

It was nearly two years before the Benelli made its race debut. Then in an early season warm-up, before the first GP of 1962, Grassetti beat Jim Redman and Tom Phillis on their works Honda fours at Cesantico, a circuit on the Adriatic coast about 40 miles from the Benelli factory at Pesaro. Things were looking even better when new signing Provini beat Redman by a healthy 22 seconds after 33 laps of Montjuich Parks twisty track to take the Spanish GP, with Phil Read and the disc-valve RD56 half a minute behind the Honda.

Although the Benelli factory was cash-strapped, development continued and by 1965 the 250 racer featured a shorter, lower and lighter chassis, a seven-speed gearbox, American-made disc brakes (soon changed back to Italian drums) and a power hike to 52bhp at 16,000rpm. Provini won every race in that years Italian national championship but the highlight of the season was when he won a rain-soaked Italian GP at Monza, although with 11 rounds already run Phil Read had delivered the 250 title to Yamaha with seven wins.

There was a new 343cc version with four valves per cylinder for 1966, and for 1967 a 500 class bike was made by boring and stroking the smaller engine to give 414cc. Both engines were revised for 1971 with inclined cylinders, shorter strokes and capacities closer to the full size. The 350 was fast Pasolini was timed at 152.5mph through the speed trap at the Isle of Man TT, the same as the MV triple and he ended the season runner-up behind Agostini in the world championship series. Australian Kel Carruthers took over the 250 Benelli and won the 1969 world championship ahead of a string of screaming Suzuki, Yamaha and Ossa two-strokes the last time the title would be won with a four-stroke.

But the Pesaro factory was in deep financial trouble, and struggling to make a profit from the 643cc vertical twin Tornado and four-stroke 250 singles with horizontal engines. In 1971 the company was bought by the Argentinean racing car driver and supercar designer Alejandro de Tomaso, who decided to update the Benelli range with a new four and also a six.

Benellis long-time designer Piero Prampolini wanted to design engines based on the racers, but de Tomaso put the brakes on that idea as it would have been too expensive so Prampolini had a good look at the single overhead camshaft CB500, which had been introduced that year. First he designed the 750cc Sei (Six). The prototype caused quite a stir at the 1972 Milan show after all, this was six years before Honda came up with the CBX.

The production Benelli Quattro (Four) debuted for the 1975 model year with the same chassis as the Sei and bodywork designed by Ghia, the styling company also owned by de Tomaso.

While the CB500s barrels sat vertically on the crankcase, the Quattros were tilted slightly forward to give a more rakish look. Power output was claimed at 55hp, substantially up on the CB500, but whereas the Honda had a disc front brake the Benelli had a twin leading shoe 230mm drum. That was soon replaced with a single Brembo disc, and later twin discs.

With 49 horses the LS version (Light Sport) of 1977 was not as powerful as the Quattro, but the engine was more flexible and the frame was shorter and lower. The LS was also 25kg lighter.

For 1979 there was another new version the 504 Sport which wore a bikini fairing from the MkI Guzzi Le Mans (the name did not refer to a capacity increase but 50 centilitres, four cylinders). There was also a 350cc Benelli four and a 604cc version with 654 badges. Production of these fours ended in 1988. There was also a 254 Quattro introduced in 1976, but the 231cc engine was completely different.

Prampolini may have had a good look at the CB500 but he did not copy it. Yes, it has the same bore and stroke dimensions of 56 x 50.6mm and a single overhead camshaft, but there are subtle differences. The Honda has a compression ratio of 9:1 while the Benelli runs with low-domed pistons to give 10.2:1. Benelli rings are narrower, and the piston with rings and pin weighs only 166g compared to the Hondas 180g. Honda connecting rods weigh 320g, 40g more than the Italian ones, and the big end shells are completely different. The Benelli camchain is heavy-duty and with a different pitch. The valves may be the same size, but the Benelli ones have waisted stems and the collet grooves are higher on the stem. Fit Honda valves in a Benelli and, thanks to the high-lift cams, the valve collets will hit the valve guides with disastrous consequences.

More obvious differences are the Bosch generator on the crankshaft, and the Bosch starter motor mounted behind the cylinders. Carburettors are 22mm VHB DellOrto. The original five-speed Quattro had three dogs on the gear cogs, but this was soon changed to six dogs. That made slick changes difficult, so by the time the LS version was introduced there was a new gearbox with five dogs on the cogs.

The alternator is on the left of the crankshaft, while two sets of ignition contact breaker points are hidden under the round cover on the right. Each set of points supplies the sparks to two pots simultaneously, so one spark is wasted. You can fit a Honda ignition points cover, agrees Selwyn, but the logo would be about 30 degrees off horizontal. You can also fit one from a Suzuki or a Kawasaki they all have 115mm centres between the screw holes! Other bodges would be to fit a CB500 gearbox sprocket, but the mainshaft splines are slightly smaller on the Benelli. The sprocket will rattle and knacker the mainshaft, warns Selwyn.

If you check out the specification of the Benelli you could be fooled into thinking that it is just an Italian version of the UJM thats Universal Japanese Motorcycle. But facts and figures dont tell you everything you need to know.

While the engine might look like a Honda, the chassis and ride feel decidedly Italian. Steering is pin sharp and always accurate, thanks to a frame that is sturdier and suspension that is firmer. Earlier versions of the Benelli four used Marzocchi forks but those on this original finish 1981 LS are Benellis own, made in the Moto Guzzi factory, which was also owned by Tomaso. They are damped and sprung lightly enough to soak up the bumps but firm enough not to dive under hard braking and with twin 260mm Brembo discs to squeeze the speed the Italian job stops a lot quicker than a CB Honda. The Marzocchi rear shocks have five preload settings, but for my weight the middle notch was perfect. That short wheelbase, sharp steering angle and low centre of gravity make for nimble handling, and the Benelli can be flicked from side to side effortlessly with complete confidence.

To get the best from the Benelli you have to rev it, but that is not difficult as the needle swings into the red zone remarkably quickly. There is pulling power from 2000rpm but when you get the engine on the boil the Benelli sings like Pavarotti. Keep it between 6000 and 9000rpm and really enjoy the ride. The engine has a harder edge than a CB500, which feels as mild as a pussycat in comparison. Top speed is about 105mph, and you can cruise effortlessly at 90mph, but this bike was designed for charging through bends not humming along motorways.

Of course, by 1981 Japanese manufacturers had moved on and were offering DOHC engines with three- or four-valve heads, and improved chassis. The CB500 and the Benelli were from a different generation.

De Tomaso had saved the Italian motorcycle industry. Besides rescuing Benelli and Guzzi he also convinced the Italian government to ban the import of sub-350cc motorcycles, and to hit large capacity foreign bikes with a hefty sales tax to give other home market manufacturers a chance. He knew that Italian motorcycles were too expensive a 500 Benelli cost 25% more than a Japanese four. That was down to high labour costs and, as de Tomaso pointed out, a Japanese worked 23,000 hours a year compared to only 15,000 hours for an Italian. Unfortunately for Benelli, there werent enough motorcycle riders out there who were prepared to keep subsidising Italian workers, so Benelli sold far fewer motorcycles than Honda. Today you can pick up a very nice Benelli four for around £3000 which means that the Italian job still costs more than a CB500.

[Richard-BKK]

I like to add that Yamaha started to produce motorcycles in 1955... and that Yamaha in court (yes by law, is the highest ever automotive company until today to be convicted since it was created of using technology from other people and manufacturers....)

[Richard-BKK]

Dear other users on Thai visa, you will never convince people that Benelli is a Italian product. While we can find proof who designed the motorcycle, we know where he was working when he designed the motorcycle, we know where he build the first prototype, we know were and who approved to start to make preparation to start mass production happened... Yes this was all in Italy.,

Lets compare that with the Honda CB650F, which we can also find a lot information about, the project leader of the design is Japanese, but is based in Thailand at Honda R&D Asia and most of his workers are from Thailand and even some are Indian... The Honda CB650F is prototype is build in Thailand and shown to the top branch of Honda Asia... which is mostly Thai nationals... The motorcycle gets its Honda HQ (Japan) approval on specs and performance figures... and goes into production without anybody in Japan ever touching the motorcycle....

The Honda CB650F is a marvelous machine and it's a serious competitor for the Benelli BN600. But we call the Honda CB650F a Japanese motorcycle, while we call the Benelli BN600 a Chinese motorcycle...

Edited October 15, 2014 by Richard-BKK