Thailand Welcomes Palestine Status In United Nations

[JemJem]

As long as Hamas doesn't stop sending rockets to Israel and recognize Israel, I personally support Israel in this conflict.

Okay, many right-wingers (whom I despise) think like this too but I am strictly against Islamism and terrorism; and so, I support Israel.

[simple1]

Seems that, in the south,like Pattani,Thailand has it's own issues with the Muslim Radicals.

The situation there is completely out of control.

Blood will flow.

It is flowing now with health workers, teachers and civil servants slaughtered on a regular basis.

Thailand now is politically obligated to negotiate with the insurgents on a nation to nation basis.

These are the rules Thailand has now agreed to.

Can you point to the content site where the Thai government has agree to the "rules" you refer to above?

[Scott]

A post with an oversized font has been removed as well as replies.

Please use the default font size and color.

[Samuimike1]

I love Thailand and all the brave countries vote for the occupied palestine. I feel sorry for the other countries who bent down to the superpower. It's time to learn walk upright again.

[Scott]

A whole lot of off-topic, baiting and nonsensical posts have been deleted as well as replies.

You might want to re-read the OP and stick to the topic.

[loserlazer]

Need to post my feelings again here as all 4 of my post removed so...

Thanks for Thailand for voting for Palestine.

So even Thailand can see the unfairness and murdered people 8000 km away.

Yeah now eyes of the world community opened and with the use of social media and internet, even a farmer or shephard in the middle of nowhere know what is going on.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[geriatrickid]

Seems that, in the south,like Pattani,Thailand has it's own issues with the Muslim Radicals.

The situation there is completely out of control.

Blood will flow.

It is flowing now with health workers, teachers and civil servants slaughtered on a regular basis.

Thailand now is politically obligated to negotiate with the insurgents on a nation to nation basis.

These are the rules Thailand has now agreed to.

Can you point to the content site where the Thai government has agree to the "rules" you refer to above?

Governments do not post their "rules of engagement". However, if a government is willing to agree that a place without a functioning central government, without a legitimate elected government, without effective government agencies and services etc., is a country, then that posiition can be used for similar situations that arise that directly impact the country granting such national status. Malaya Pattani, has more of the chatracteristics of a nation than does the region referred to as Palestine. Look at the Pattani territory carved up into 3 regions by Thailand;

- A common language, culture and religion

- A dominant political representative group in PULO, albeit illegal

- Popular support in the region

- Support of some third parties and countries

Thailand has reset its rules for the crisis in the south, whether or not it wishes to acknowledge that change. It cannot say one group, the Palestinian arabs has a more legitimate right to a nation than the LMalay Pattani people. The one big difference is that the Palestinian arabs never were a nation and had no national history. Malay Pattani was at one time an autonomous and an independent sultanate. It was captured by the Thais with the British colonial power in 1909 recognizing the Thai annexation and allowing the Pattani region to be carved out of the British Malaya territory.

Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank was part of Jordan. In fact, Jordan is the actual Palestinian nation since 80%+ of its population are "Palestinian" arabs. Jordan was formerly called the Hashemite Emirate and the Hashemite clan are from Saudi Arabia.

If one looks at the histories of the two regions, one sees that the Pattani people have a much stronger claim to nationhood than do the Palestinian arabs. Now, Thailand will have to play by the new rules, rules that it has set.

[geriatrickid]

I love Thailand and all the brave countries vote for the occupied palestine. I feel sorry for the other countries who bent down to the superpower. It's time to learn walk upright again.

There were multiple countries that abstained. If you think western countries voted for the recognition because they genuinely care about the Palestinian arabs, you are delusional. It was a lifeline tossed to Abbas because many countries were afraid of Hamas gaining the upper hand. Thailand voted yes because it is needs the middle east for its oil and for investment funds. Do you really think Thailand voted yes because it supports human rights? Just ask the muslim Rohingya refugees about that.

The countries that abstained or voted against the proposal are the main donors of humanitarian aid. China, and Russia didn't vote yes because they support the Palestinian arabs. Rather, they voted yes because they were voting against the USA interests. That's how international politics works. I can't wait for the muslim regions in Russia and China to now ask for their own autonomy. It will be an interesting response.

[Zatoichi]

I love Thailand and all the brave countries vote for the occupied palestine. I feel sorry for the other countries who bent down to the superpower. It's time to learn walk upright again.

It would have been more brave to stand up for ISRAEL. A country like Thailand was expected to go with the majority on an issue like this. Bottom line of this issue for me is does this UN resolution (unilateral, symbolic, ignoring the fact that Gaza and the west bank are very much divided with very different goals, leaving Israel out of it) bring the ACTUALITY of a real two state resolution (with PEACE) of the decades long conflict closer to realization? I think no, that it makes thing worse, but I understand many supporters of the resolution think yes, and I hope they are right. Of course there are strong forces on both sides that have no real interest in a reasonable two state solution, but that's another matter, but it does very much complicate any efforts to EVER solve this peacefully.

Yes I understand the Palestinians and their supporters are celebrating the UN vote. But what exactly has changed on the ground in the West Bank or Gaza (except Israel getting pissed off and announcing more west bank building)? Obviously: NOTHING.

Not a whole heck of alot changed in the States immediately following Brown Vs The Board of Education. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Board_of_Education ) There was still alot of resistance to integration and in fact the first students in many ways had it worse than when they were in segregated schools. But it was a important step, one of the first that would lead to a better place for our country Freedom is not free, It has to be fought for. Thats one thing I can definitely give to the Palestinians, they are doggedly persistent. And persistence conquers resistance, eventually. Good for Palestine, and Good for Thailand for getting on board with the rest of the world in congratulating them.

[Zatoichi]

Not exactly. The reason the Zionist movement got political legs to actually achieve statehood for Israel in the late 1940s was the holocaust and the large wave of Jewish migration to the British mandate of Palestine both before and after that historical event. Not sure how much that had to do with oil or imperialism, except in the sense that both the Arabs and Jews in the area weren't thrilled with British imperialism.

Of course yes thousands of years ago Israel was heavily Jewish but they were totally banished from Jerusalem by the Romans and thus began the diaspora.

http://www.simpletor...ticles/a/exile/

To further squelch any nationalistic feeling, Hadrian renamed the land Philistia (Palestine) after the Philistines, an extinct people who once occupied the Mediterranean coastal area and who were some of the bitterest enemies of the Jews described in the Bible.

If we want to talk about Brave, sure I wouldn't call Thailand brave for standing up for Palestine, I mean I would say it's good, but not brave. Even a coward can stand up to a huge bully when there's 138 other people with them.

No whats brave are the traditionalist Jews in israel from the Neturei Karta branch of Judaism that stands up against Zionism and supports the rights of the Palestinian people to be treated as equals. Standing up for what the believe is right in the face of overwhelming odds, that's brave. And very commendable IMHO.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts have been deleted. This thread is specific to Thailand's acknowledgement of Palestine's status in the UN. General discussion of the Israeli/Palestinian situation is off-topic and posts will continue to be deleted.

Please stick to the topic.

[kblaze]

I love Thailand and all the brave countries vote for the occupied palestine. I feel sorry for the other countries who bent down to the superpower. It's time to learn walk upright again.

There were multiple countries that abstained. If you think western countries voted for the recognition because they genuinely care about the Palestinian arabs, you are delusional. It was a lifeline tossed to Abbas because many countries were afraid of Hamas gaining the upper hand. Thailand vooted yes because it is needs the middle east for its oil and for investment funds. Do you really think Thailand voted yes because it supports human rights? Just ask the muslim Rohingya refugees about that.

The countries that abstained or voted against the proposal are the main donors of humanitarian aid. China, and Russia didn't vote yes because they support the Palestinian arabs. Rather, they voted yes because they were voting against the USA interests. That's how international politics works. I can't wait for the muslim regions in Russia and China to now ask for their own autonomy. It will be an interesting response.

Interesting how you strike down his belief with your conjectures.

[Morch]

Yeah now eyes of the world community opened and with the use of social media and internet, even a farmer or shephard in the middle of nowhere know what is going on.

Indeed...

Access to information does not necessarily imply understanding or quality of information.

[simple1]

Seems that, in the south,like Pattani,Thailand has it's own issues with the Muslim Radicals.

The situation there is completely out of control.

Blood will flow.

It is flowing now with health workers, teachers and civil servants slaughtered on a regular basis.

Thailand now is politically obligated to negotiate with the insurgents on a nation to nation basis.

These are the rules Thailand has now agreed to.

Can you point to the content site where the Thai government has agree to the "rules" you refer to above?

Governments do not post their "rules of engagement". However, if a government is willing to agree that a place without a functioning central government, without a legitimate elected government, without effective government agencies and services etc., is a country, then that posiition can be used for similar situations that arise that directly impact the country granting such national status. Malaya Pattani, has more of the chatracteristics of a nation than does the region referred to as Palestine. Look at the Pattani territory carved up into 3 regions by Thailand;

- A common language, culture and religion

- A dominant political representative group in PULO, albeit illegal

- Popular support in the region

- Support of some third parties and countries

Thailand has reset its rules for the crisis in the south, whetheror not it wishes to acknowledge that change. It cannot say one group, the Palestinian arabs has a more legitimate right to a nation than the LMalay Pattani people. The one big difference is that the Palestinian arabs never were a nation and had no national history. Malay Pattani was at one time an autonomous and an independent sultanate. It was captured by the Thais with the British colonial power in 1909 recognizing the Thai annexation and allowing the Pattani region to be carved out of the British Malaya territory.

Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank was part of Jordan. In fact, Jordan is the actual Palestinian nation since 80%+ of its population are "Palestinian" arabs. Jordan was formerly called the Hashemite Emirate and the Hashemite clan are from Saudi Arabia.

If one looks at the histories of the two regions, one sees that the Pattani people have a much stronger claim to nationhood than do the Palestinian arabs. Now, Thailand will have to play by the new rules, rules that it has set.

Now understand the message of your prior post & I agree.

[Scott]

More Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[up-country_sinclair]

"Thailand's support of the resolution was based on our longstanding position to support the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people of self-determination and to have an independent, democratic, viable and peaceful state"

Bravo, Thailand!

The people of Palestine surely appreciate your support.

[Pakboong]

Thailand gains or loses nothing with this vote. To me, it is only interesting in light of how the various countries see themselves democratically. Whining about losing a lopsided democratic vote is shameful for any country that considers themselves a democratic country. You win some and lose some but we don't whine about it.

[Jingthing]

This unilateral move by the UN with Thailand's help not only acts without Israel's consent but ALSO acts without the Palestinian people and government of Gaza's (Hamas) consent. Yes there were celebrations in the West Bank. How about Gaza? Word is they were not celebrating because they don't WANT a two state solution anyway. Israel has now reacted not only with the new construction announcement but now seizing Palestinian west bank tax monies to pay an electricity bill. Can somehow please explain how this UN action is triggering hope for peace? Seems to me, it's mostly about INTERNAL Palestinian politics (Fatah vs. Hamas) and Abbas securing some kind of tenuous legacy (on paper).

[Pimay1]

Who really gives a rats ass as to which country Thailand recognizes? We all know it has nothing to do with democracy or people struggling. It is only about what's in it for Thailand. If they think it will up the number for TAT then that is a good enough reason to flip the yes lever.

[Jingthing]

Who really gives a rats ass as to which country Thailand recognizes? We all know it has nothing to do with democracy or people struggling. It is only about what's in it for Thailand. If they think it will up the number for TAT then that is a good enough reason to flip the yes lever.

Thailand was only going with the geographical herd in this region. The one outlier was SINGAPORE, which abstained.

I agree Thailand's specific vote is of little consequence but if they had voted the other way, they would have stood out like a sore thumb, which of course would be losing face with the neighbors ... so no on that.

[up-country_sinclair]

This unilateral move by the UN with Thailand's help not only acts without Israel's consent but ALSO acts without the Palestinian people and government of Gaza's (Hamas) consent.

Thailand and 137 other nations voted to increase the standing of the Palestinian Authority in the UN. The democratically elect government in Palestine brought the vote to the UN. Israel's consent matters not.

[up-country_sinclair]

We can only assume that Thailand (and the other 137 nations that voted in favor of Palestine becoming an non-member state), knew that the people of Palestine will now have more of an opportunity to seek justice through the International Criminal Court.

Thailand voted on the side of justice.

[Thai at Heart]

"Thailand's support of the resolution was based on our longstanding position to support the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people of self-determination and to have an independent, democratic, viable and peaceful state"

Bravo, Thailand!

The people of Palestine surely appreciate your support.

I can't wait for someone down south to change the subject of that statement and deliver it straight back to the Thai parliament and the Un.

[Morch]

We can only assume that Thailand (and the other 137 nations that voted in favor of Palestine becoming an non-member state), knew that the people of Palestine will now have more of an opportunity to seek justice through the International Criminal Court.

Thailand voted on the side of justice.

The government of Thailand and/or members of the ruling party, actually seem to have some difficulties grasping all the details and implications concerned with this institution (referring to their bid for the 2010 demonstration investigation, under their terms).

So far, the Palestinian leadership used this option as a threat, but was somewhat cautious when referring to the possibility of going down this road. The complicated status of and situation in Gaza definitely play a factor - the PA could find itself held responsible for Hamas transgressions.

[loserlazer]

This unilateral move by the UN with Thailand's help not only acts without Israel's consent but ALSO acts without the Palestinian people and government of Gaza's (Hamas) consent. Yes there were celebrations in the West Bank. How about Gaza? Word is they were not celebrating because they don't WANT a two state solution anyway. Israel has now reacted not only with the new construction announcement but now seizing Palestinian west bank tax monies to pay an electricity bill. Can somehow please explain how this UN action is triggering hope for peace? Seems to me, it's mostly about INTERNAL Palestinian politics (Fatah vs. Hamas) and Abbas securing some kind of tenuous legacy (on paper).

So we need to get consent from Israel after a fair voting?

Strange.

But not in un general assembly. It is the only place where things get done with plurality of the votes. The only place that can recognize palestine in half as.ed UN.

Long lives for all governments like Thailand for openning their eyes on this.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Morch]

The "unilateral" and the "consent" references are related to prior agreements between Israel and the PA, basically stating that a solution will be reached via bilateral negotiation and accord.

[Jingthing]

...

So we need to get consent from Israel after a fair voting?

...

No of course I meant consent from Israel involving DIRECT negotiations between Israel and Palestinians in authority over the eventual final borders of a potential Palestinian state so that someday there actually can be a real two state solution. The U.N. vote is something else. I support the position of the U.S, Canada and Micronesia (etc.) on this one, minority opinion though it may be, that doesn't mean it's wrong.

...

We will continue to oppose firmly any and all unilateral actions in international bodies or treaties that circumvent or prejudge the very outcomes that can only be negotiated, including Palestinian statehood. And, we will continue to stand up to every effort that seeks to delegitimize Israel or undermine its security.

...

Long after the votes have been cast, long after the speeches have been forgotten, it is the Palestinians and the Israelis who must still talk to each other—and listen to each other—and find a way to live side by side in the land they share.

From the U.S. statement

[nurofiend]

Thailand has made a mistake. It is another miscalculation that fails to take into account the impact upon the southern insurgency. It should have abstained like many western governments. The southern seperatists can offer many of the same arguments as the Palestinians with one major argument that the Palestinians cannot not make: The disputed south was at one time an autonomous region and fully separate and distinct from Thailand. The Palestinians have no characteristics of a state: There is no representative goverment or body that speaks for the combined regions of the former Egyptian territory of Gaza, nor for the former Jordanian territory of the "west bank". Hamas and the PA are at odds and loathe each other. There is no government infrastructure etc. Despite years having passed, and billions of euros/$$$ given, the palestinian arabs really do not have much to show for their "natiion" building. Neither the PA nor Hamas are legitimate governing bodies as their "elected" mandates expired. Hamas was elected in 2006 and refuses to allow a return to the polls. The PA President Abbas refuses to allow a presidential election.

Thailand's decision was predicated on its need to retain the favour of its energy suppliers and to ensure the Gulf State big wigs are kept happy. Many countries that abstained or voted in favour did so because of their perceived need to give Abbas a lifeline, to keep his political faction alive as the loss of Fatah would only leave groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad etc. Some countries voted in favour because they are aligned with the arab voting bloc. Fair enough as that is international politics. However, at the end of the day, nothing will have changed. The palestinian arabs are still in the same position as before, have refused the last statehood offer that saw them reject a state at that had been ageed to at the Camp David meetings, seen them reject the Oslo peace accords they signed, and seen them reject a deal offered by former PM Olmert that gave them close to 100% of the land they wanted.

Olmert wanted to annex 6.3 percent of the West Bank to Israel, areas that are home to 75 percent of the Israeli population of the territories. His proposal would have also involved evacuation of dozens of settlements in the Jordan Valley, in the eastern Samarian hills and in the Hebron region. In return for Olmert proposed the transfer of Israeli territory to the Palestinians equivalent to 5.8 percent of the area of the West Bank as well as a safe-passage route from Hebron to the Gaza Strip via a highway that would remain part of the sovereign territory of Israel but where there would be no Israeli presence. Basically, Israel would have given part of its own land to the arabs to compensate them. Think about it. The arabs rejected an agreement because of a dispute over 6.3% of the land in the proposal. Had the arabs accepted, they would have had a nation a few years ago and a starting point to negotiate the small bits and pieces of lands still disputed.

"Many countries that abstained or voted in favour did so because of their perceived need to give Abbas a lifeline, to keep his political faction alive as the loss of Fatah would only leave groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad etc. Some countries voted in favour because they are aligned with the arab voting bloc."

But of course no mention of countries voting that way or abstaining because they actually thought it was the right thing to do... and a way to build foundations for the future.

Nope, there has to be some selfish agenda or fear factor for all of them in your eyes... that's a whole lot of countries in the world with their own selfish reasons, it couldn't be that they just think it's the way it should be.... it just couldn't!

You speak of western countries, even old reliable germany abstained instead of voting no, a big blow to perceived support of israel.

The UK said they considered voting yes as long as Palestine promised not to use it's status to gain membership in the I.C.C, where they would obviously pursue Israel for the backlog of war crimes... why this promise should be made, i have no idea.

Nine countries in the world voted against it,

Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama are five of them.

Czech Republic is another one.

I'm sure you know the other three.

Good on you Thailand and every other country that recognizes that ignoring Palestine does nothing for progress and keeps us stalled in the dark ages on this matter.

[cup-O-coffee]

It is a step in the proper direction for Thailand; to cast a welcome to Palestine's new status in the U.N.

[Bwanatickey]

How many people of Palestine are able to travel freely to Thailand and enjoy being amongst tourists from all corners of the Earth. Where are the stats for Palestinian tourists to Thailand.? Has anybody met them in Thailand?

How many Palestian's from Gaza get to holiday in Thailand?

How many Israelies holiday in Thailand?