Fluency In English Necessary For A E C

[webfact]

Fluency in English necessary for AEC

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Thai universities and other education institutions should start boosting their students' English-language skills in preparation for the 2015 Asean Economic Community because English will become the most common language in the region, Nation University executives said yesterday.

In a lecture at the university's Lampang campus, rector Pong-in Rakariyatham said at least 20 per cent of the subjects will be taught in English and all students will have to pass a proficiency test in the language in order to graduate.

Suthichai Yoon, chairman of the Nation Multimedia Group, said Nation University would play a key role in helping bridge the gap among Thai educational institutions. An online classroom will also be set up in order to help students share data and experience, he said.

Thepchai Yong, director of Asean TV, said the university's Lampang campus was an added strength because it can help connect the North with neighbouring countries.

-- The Nation 2012-12-01

[Jane Doe]

Again?

[otherstuff1957]

In addition to teaching, I work part-time as a proof reader/editor for a Thai advertising company. This year I have been busier than ever as they have acquired partners in Indonesia, Vietnam and Burma. Naturally, all of the communication between the Thai company and their ASEAN partners is conducted in English.

Efforts to upgrade the English skills of existing employees has been met with limited success, so all new employees, except for maids & drivers, have to know at least basic English.

[ffourie]

Well until they learn that English is not a language that can be learnt from repetition alone, nothing will come of it. I teach at a school where children who have had 5 years of English cannot read a story and tell you who it is about. They have no idea that learning English is not like learning a script for a part. You have to think and react to other users of the language.

[EarthAlien]

In addition to teaching, I work part-time as a proof reader/editor for a Thai advertising company. This year I have been busier than ever as they have acquired partners in Indonesia, Vietnam and Burma. Naturally, all of the communication between the Thai company and their ASEAN partners is conducted in English.

Efforts to upgrade the English skills of existing employees has been met with limited success, so all new employees, except for maids & drivers, have to know at least basic English.

Efforts to upgrade the English skills of existing employees has been met with limited success

You're probably being very diplomatic and licentious in making that comment.

Allow me to add my own interpretation below:

Efforts to upgrade the English skills of existing employees has been unenthusiastically received. Comments overheard at the company water cooler were said to include "mai pen rai" & "phom mai roo". When asked what they thought of Thailand's ASEAN involvement, employees responded with "Thailand best country"!

[wilgoster]

Efforts to upgrade the English skills of existing employees has been met…

In addition to teaching, I work part-time as a proof reader/editor for a Thai advertising company.

Fail.

[nakhonandy]

This one keeps coming up eh!.

When my wife went around Nakhon Sawan in search of an english teacher to help her improve it was a disaster.

All of the teachers had a degree, none spoke better English than my wife, far worse in fact. She is now doing this online with my help.

Since these people are teaching the children, IMHO university is not much better if at all, the chance of fluent English speaking Thais is slim.

I have a property developer friend in Pattaya and he said that he would rather employ a bargirl than anyone from university as their command of English was better.

Says it all really.

[sirchai]

"In a lecture at the university's Lampang campus, rector Pong-in Rakariyatham said at least 20 per cent of the subjects will be taught in English and all students will have to pass a proficiency test in the language in order to graduate."

If Thai English teachers would have to pass a proficiency test in English, spoken and written, to do their jobs, would be a much better decision.

When will they understand that they'll have to start at the roots?

What about 20% of the subjects?

Edited December 1, 2012 by sirchai

[Tanaka]

This one keeps coming up eh!.

When my wife went around Nakhon Sawan in search of an english teacher to help her improve it was a disaster.

All of the teachers had a degree, none spoke better English than my wife, far worse in fact. She is now doing this online with my help.

Since these people are teaching the children, IMHO university is not much better if at all, the chance of fluent English speaking Thais is slim.

I have a property developer friend in Pattaya and he said that he would rather employ a bargirl than anyone from university as their command of English was better.

Says it all really.

It does. My wife studies at a university and I have met some of here classmates. They can say good morning and thank you. And that is about it! They cannot form a proper sentence. Yeah, they will all be fluent in three years. I have heard their "teacher". Pathetic.

And the profiency test they talk about, will that be performed along the same lines as the test for driver's licences?

Edited December 1, 2012 by Tanaka

[Xangsamhua]

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

(W. B. Yeats, “The Second Coming”)

The “rough beast” is the imminent and awful realization that will finally hit in 2015 that Siam/Thailand’s egocentric and elitist view of the world has left it trailing the field, not only in international language skills, but in any serious intention or motivation to develop them for anyone but those who have the capacity to study and live abroad.

It’s all very well to boast about never having been colonized, but as discerning Thai friends have told me, this has been a double-edged sword. It’s been evident for many years, extending well back into the colonial period in South and Southeast Asia, that English would be the dominant international language, but the Siamese/Thai leaders did close to nothing to prepare their people for this.

Now it’s too late. Thailand has to cut her losses and change her whole strategy so that at least a small but effective cadre of competent English speakers will be created. Concentration of resources and economy of effort will achieve success, even though it won’t be widespread among the Thai population. It’s time to stop throwing good money after bad in drip-feed and scattergun school English programs. Bilingual education should be the only form of English language development that the government funds in schools, and then only in strategically targeted schools that require a challenging entrance test for admission.

If "Bethlehem" is Thailand, the coming of the "rough beast" may in fact be the catalyst - the realization that the old ways are counter-productive - that will bring about a new and more productive era for Thailand as a member of the regional and world community.

[steveyinasia]

My wife taught herself English and speaks better English than any other Thai I know ,she left school at 12. She is 30 and has the common sense to know how important it is

[bkk_mike]

Maybe they could start by having Radio Thailand's English language service restrict itself to people that can actually pronounce English.

The regular newsreaders aren't too bad (the odd mispronunciation that grates, but otherwise acceptable), but when they have a Thai guest speaker, the English can be indecipherable.

[golgi1]

Efforts to upgrade the English skills of existing employees has been met…

In addition to teaching, I work part-time as a proof reader/editor for a Thai advertising company.

Fail.

Correcting grammar on a forum is so 2005. If you do insist in partaking in such a passe form of forum participation , then don't just condemn the offending sentence with the parlance of adolescents - correct it. There is nothing wrong with that sentence structure.

[otherstuff1957]

^ Actually this is: Efforts... has. I can't even blame the Chang this time, as the sun was not yet over the yardarm!

[sirchai]

My wife taught herself English and speaks better English than any other Thai I know ,she left school at 12. She is 30 and has the common sense to know how important it is

I met my wife 10 years ago, when she couldn't speak English, she also left school when she was 12.

Her English now isn't very good, but okay. Sorry, but most female Thais, good in English have learnt their English, working at bars.

Guess you have to speak with somebody, to learn a language. I might be wrong though.....

Edited December 2, 2012 by sirchai

[siampolee]

Perhaps if the Thai English teachers noted the comment made by Michael Swan and David Baker regarding grammar their students might just actually start to comprehend and actually start to speak English.

Remember :grammar is not the only part of a language that has to be learnt and practised; it is not even the most important part. Don't get obsessed with correctness; otherwise you will just end up learning grammar instead of learning English.

page vii Grammar Scan: Micheal Swan and David Baker.

The main object for me and my or rather our teaching staff is to get people actually communicating in English with confidence then we can start to polish up the grammar side of things

[culicine]

Perhaps if the Thai English teachers noted the comment made by Michael Swan and David Baker regarding grammar their students might just actually start to comprehend and actually start to speak English.

Remember :grammar is not the only part of a language that has to be learnt and practised; it is not even the most important part. Don't get obsessed with correctness; otherwise you will just end up learning grammar instead of learning English.

page vii Grammar Scan: Micheal Swan and David Baker.

The main object for me and my or rather our teaching staff is to get people actually communicating in English with confidence then we can start to polish up the grammar side of things

While I'm not an english teacher, I would say that a major problem is that Thais don't read enough, even in their own language. Kids who learn to read from an early age, and every day, will have far fewer problems with learning grammar rules later on...on top of that they also need to be listening to a lot more english - not some Thai teacher blabbering on in Thai for 95% of their English class. My 9 year old son makes occasional grammar errors when speaking, but not too many...he never learned the rules, he just learned normal grammar structures from listening to english in use.

If the government is serious, they should relax qualifications and teacher licencing requirements for native speakers to work in government schools. Who needs to be a qualified teacher from the west to teach conversation? Put them through a TEFL course that will teach them how to teach conversation; that should be enough. That's a short term solution, but in the long term, the Thai education system needs some substantial work to train its Thai teachers to teach English properly - perhaps some financial incentives for talented Thais who are naturally competent in English, to become teachers. After all, most Thais fluent in English don't work in schools - they head for greener pastures.

[sirchai]

The best way would be to send those who want to become English teachers abroad. They'll certainly come back with a very good command in English, plus an experience that Thailand isn't the only country on this planet.

A Thai colleague just recently told me that she wouldn't speak any more English when coming home. There're so many other ways to learn English, like watching movies, typing some nonsense at TVF etc....

I've realized that mostly kids at schools and teachers know about ASEAN, the majority of the "ordinary" folks don't even know what will happen soon.

We had an ASEAN camp at our school, some of them might remember the ten countries, that's it.

Just upgrading a school by calling it "World Class Standard School" doesn't really boost their English language ability.

Not too many Thais will go to any of the nine other member countries, but many of them will come to Thailand.

Can't see one good point for this country though.....

Edited December 2, 2012 by sirchai

[siampolee]

Culcine: Post # 17

While I'm not an english teacher, I would say that a major problem is that Thais don't read enough, even in their own language. Kids who learn to read from an early age, and every day, will have far fewer problems with learning grammar rules later on...on top of that they also need to be listening to a lot more english - not some Thai teacher blabbering on in Thai for 95% of their English class. My 9 year old son makes occasional grammar errors when speaking, but not too many...he never learned the rules, he just learned normal grammar structures from listening to english in use.

Superb comment it reinforces my belief that to learn you need to speak whatever the subject material may be..,

The more you speak the more you'll learn, let us just cast our minds back to when our children were learning to talk

No reading or writing then, no grammar rules that all came along later when our mental capabilities were able to deal with more complex tasks.

Just conversation and enlarging vocabulary and correcting conversations as our children developed, just the same as we learnt and countless generations before us.

Picture books at an early age then simple readers and a steady progression from there on. I suppose I and my generation were fortunate as we didn't have television in our formative years 1945- 1953 in the U.K,. It was the radio and comics,

The Beano and the Dandy followed by The Eagle,, The Rover and the Hotspur and Smees Children's Newspaper and the Junior Daily Mirror, books brought every week from Woolworth's, Children's Classics range, Robinson Crusoe ,Treasure Island the list of titles was enormous,

I grew up in a home surrounded by radio and books a mother who was an avid reader and weekly library visits, even today at 67 a book is an essential part of my life whether for education use or personal pleasure...

Edited December 2, 2012 by siampolee

[SlyAnimal]

While I'm not an english teacher, I would say that a major problem is that Thais don't read enough, even in their own language.

/agree

Most kids who say they "read" only read comic books. If they read more Thai books, their Thai would improve, and if they read more English books (for fun in their own time), their English would likewise significantly improve. Add to this, that if they watched English movies, in English (With Thai subtitles), their English would also improve.

The other major change which they need, and this is something which the government can work on improving (since it's difficult to encourage Thai kids to enjoy reading books), is to increase the English levels of their English teachers, and to encourage/teach their English teachers to teach English via speaking English in the classroom. If Thai teachers taught English via speaking 80%+ English in the classroom, and encouraging their students to ask questions etc in English, their students would increase their levels of English dramatically.

However if they did this, I'd be out of a job (Or at the very least, they wouldn't have the justification to pay me as much), so maybe it's a blessing in disguise.

[Scott]

I, and many of my classmates, especially the boys, learned to read primarily because of comic books. We loved them, read them and traded them with one another, but eventually we grew out of them and moved on to other things. I have never understood why so many people here continue to read to cartoon books.

[sirchai]

I, and many of my classmates, especially the boys, learned to read primarily because of comic books. We loved them, read them and traded them with one another, but eventually we grew out of them and moved on to other things. I have never understood why so many people here continue to read to cartoon books.

I always read the "Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers". It did indeed improve my reading and speaking skills. And developed my laugh muscles... Good old times...

People here never stop reading comic books as they never really grow up. Even websites from Bangkok post offer good stuff for young learners, with all the vocabulary explained in English and the word in Thai.

Almost all book stores here sell books for different levels, also coning with all the vocabulary and the explanation in Thai. When Thais watch a movie in English with Thai subtitles, they don't even listen to what's being said. They just read the subtitles.

Here's a link for those who've missed it. ---

http://1337x.org/tor...DF-1337x-kawli/

Edited December 2, 2012 by sirchai

[Baerboxer]

My wife taught herself English and speaks better English than any other Thai I know ,she left school at 12. She is 30 and has the common sense to know how important it is

I met my wife 10 years ago, when she couldn't speak English, she also left school when she was 12.

Her English now isn't very good, but okay. Sorry, but most female Thais, good in English have learnt their English, working at bars.

Guess you have to speak with somebody, to learn a language. I might be wrong though.....

You are correct in your guess that in order to learn another language you need to speak it, preferably with a selection of native speakers. Language skills diminish quickly if not constantly practised. The ability to speak and understand another language when spoken to diminishes more quickly than the ability to read and write the language, in my experience.

However, your assertion that most ladies with good English language skills learnt them whilst working in a bar is nonsense.

[Baerboxer]

Perhaps if the Thai English teachers noted the comment made by Michael Swan and David Baker regarding grammar their students might just actually start to comprehend and actually start to speak English.

Remember :grammar is not the only part of a language that has to be learnt and practised; it is not even the most important part. Don't get obsessed with correctness; otherwise you will just end up learning grammar instead of learning English.

page vii Grammar Scan: Micheal Swan and David Baker.

The main object for me and my or rather our teaching staff is to get people actually communicating in English with confidence then we can start to polish up the grammar side of things

While I'm not an english teacher, I would say that a major problem is that Thais don't read enough, even in their own language. Kids who learn to read from an early age, and every day, will have far fewer problems with learning grammar rules later on...on top of that they also need to be listening to a lot more english - not some Thai teacher blabbering on in Thai for 95% of their English class. My 9 year old son makes occasional grammar errors when speaking, but not too many...he never learned the rules, he just learned normal grammar structures from listening to english in use.

If the government is serious, they should relax qualifications and teacher licencing requirements for native speakers to work in government schools. Who needs to be a qualified teacher from the west to teach conversation? Put them through a TEFL course that will teach them how to teach conversation; that should be enough. That's a short term solution, but in the long term, the Thai education system needs some substantial work to train its Thai teachers to teach English properly - perhaps some financial incentives for talented Thais who are naturally competent in English, to become teachers. After all, most Thais fluent in English don't work in schools - they head for greener pastures.

You are joking - relax the teacher licencing requirements? Bring back the back packers, those looking for a bit of "pin money" on the side, or trying to find a way of obtaining a visa extension etc. Great way to improve the quality of teaching.Teaching is not something everyone can do. It is a profession and requires professionals. The countries that top the education rankings, like Finland and South Korea recognise this.

[Baerboxer]

This one keeps coming up eh!.

When my wife went around Nakhon Sawan in search of an english teacher to help her improve it was a disaster.

All of the teachers had a degree, none spoke better English than my wife, far worse in fact. She is now doing this online with my help.

Since these people are teaching the children, IMHO university is not much better if at all, the chance of fluent English speaking Thais is slim.

I have a property developer friend in Pattaya and he said that he would rather employ a bargirl than anyone from university as their command of English was better.

Says it all really.

It does. My wife studies at a university and I have met some of here classmates. They can say good morning and thank you. And that is about it! They cannot form a proper sentence. Yeah, they will all be fluent in three years. I have heard their "teacher". Pathetic.

And the profiency test they talk about, will that be performed along the same lines as the test for driver's licences?

I have a similar experience from my wife's university classmates. The majority cannot speak good English and many won't try because they don't want to be seen to loose face. A large % failed the English exam, which is an integral part of the curriculum. Several also failed the re-take and now have to wait until next year and re-take again. They will not graduate until they pass this module. I've offered to help, coach and tutor, for free. No one wants to do it, again because of perceived loss of face; and they know I will work them hard.

What is worrying is that this a Master's Degree course and all the students are teachers!

[PapaNasty]

You are joking - relax the teacher licencing requirements? Bring back the back packers, those looking for a bit of "pin money" on the side, or trying to find a way of obtaining a visa extension etc. Great way to improve the quality of teaching.Teaching is not something everyone can do. It is a profession and requires professionals. The countries that top the education rankings, like Finland and South Korea recognise this.

I'd have to disagree with you on this.

However, I'll concede that often (not always), the NESs who I've met that have a bachelor's degree, often speak better English than those who don't have a degree.

But of NESs who I've met, who don't have a bachelor's degree, speak better English than 99.9% of Thai English teachers with a Masters degree or lower who I've met.

There are currently not enough NES teachers in Thailand. To increase the amount of teachers, they could loosen the requirements for a teaching licence waiver. Then, later when they have enough NES teachers, they could try and tighten things up by bringing in tougher requirements to increase the standard of teaching.

However, in saying that:

A NES backpacker with a charismatic, outgoing personality and a TESOL Cert would beat the pants off 95% of Thai teachers who are teaching English.

A NES backpacker with a charismatic, outgoing personality and a TESOL Cert would likewise beat the pants off most NES teachers with degrees who don't have the right personality for teaching.

Teaching is largely about the personality and passion of the teacher, not whether they studied business/engineering/art etc for 3 or 4 years at university.

Although having completed a TESOL or CELTA course, makes a significant difference to the quality of teaching, so I would definitely say that this should be a requirement (Even though, at present, I think a bachelor's degree is a requirement, but a TESOL or CELTA certificate isn't.....)

[radiochaser]

The best way would be to send those who want to become English teachers abroad. They'll certainly come back with a very good command in English, plus an experience that Thailand isn't the only country on this planet.

A Thai colleague just recently told me that she wouldn't speak any more English when coming home. There're so many other ways to learn English, like watching movies, typing some nonsense at TVF etc....

I've realized that mostly kids at schools and teachers know about ASEAN, the majority of the "ordinary" folks don't even know what will happen soon.

We had an ASEAN camp at our school, some of them might remember the ten countries, that's it.

Just upgrading a school by calling it "World Class Standard School" doesn't really boost their English language ability.

Not too many Thais will go to any of the nine other member countries, but many of them will come to Thailand.

Can't see one good point for this country though.....

I learned my basic Thai language during the seven months I was in Thailand back in 1971-1972. This includes four months of Thai language class 2 nights a week at the military base outside of Udon Thanii. Thai language was taught at the base by a Thai woman.

I asked the Thai instructor how long she had studied the English language. She had a four year degree at universities in Thailand, followed by eight years advanced study in the United States.

While she still had a Thai accent, she is still the most learned Thai of the English language and the most fluent and literate in English of any Thai I have met. This includes my Thai family and their English language abilities.

She was making good money working for the University of Maryland, Far East Division teaching Thai and good money on the side teaching English to those that could afford to pay her the rates she was asking.

The eight years study in the United States is where she says she really learned to speak English, before that the English language she learned at Thai universities only enabled her to read and write it.

Edited December 3, 2012 by radiochaser

[culicine]

Perhaps if the Thai English teachers noted the comment made by Michael Swan and David Baker regarding grammar their students might just actually start to comprehend and actually start to speak English.

Remember :grammar is not the only part of a language that has to be learnt and practised; it is not even the most important part. Don't get obsessed with correctness; otherwise you will just end up learning grammar instead of learning English.

page vii Grammar Scan: Micheal Swan and David Baker.

The main object for me and my or rather our teaching staff is to get people actually communicating in English with confidence then we can start to polish up the grammar side of things

While I'm not an english teacher, I would say that a major problem is that Thais don't read enough, even in their own language. Kids who learn to read from an early age, and every day, will have far fewer problems with learning grammar rules later on...on top of that they also need to be listening to a lot more english - not some Thai teacher blabbering on in Thai for 95% of their English class. My 9 year old son makes occasional grammar errors when speaking, but not too many...he never learned the rules, he just learned normal grammar structures from listening to english in use.

If the government is serious, they should relax qualifications and teacher licencing requirements for native speakers to work in government schools. Who needs to be a qualified teacher from the west to teach conversation? Put them through a TEFL course that will teach them how to teach conversation; that should be enough. That's a short term solution, but in the long term, the Thai education system needs some substantial work to train its Thai teachers to teach English properly - perhaps some financial incentives for talented Thais who are naturally competent in English, to become teachers. After all, most Thais fluent in English don't work in schools - they head for greener pastures.

You are joking - relax the teacher licencing requirements? Bring back the back packers, those looking for a bit of "pin money" on the side, or trying to find a way of obtaining a visa extension etc. Great way to improve the quality of teaching.Teaching is not something everyone can do. It is a profession and requires professionals. The countries that top the education rankings, like Finland and South Korea recognise this.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Teaching conversations doesn't require 'professionals'. it's not that difficult is it? Most western trained teachers wither in the heat of a Thai classroom of 50-60 students. Besides, they have no appreciation of cultural differences - you can just plonk your western teaching ideas into a Thai classroom and expect to be successful. BTW I've been teaching here 12 years, and am a western qualified teacher. My hat goes off to those teachers who come here and teach in government schools. it's tough work, but if they have their heart in the right place, plus some training, especially in classroom management, the can be successful. There certainly is no need for western teacher qualifications to teach conversation, or even basic grammar, for that matter.

[Zooheekock]

if they have their heart in the right place, plus some training, especially in classroom management, the can be successful. There certainly is no need for western teacher qualifications to teach conversation, or even basic grammar, for that matter.

I think that's probably true (I have worked in the past as a TEFLer and still do on occasion so I know a little about this) but the problem is that you still need a way of weeding out the perverts, the alcoholics and the incompetent and the current regulations do do that to a certain extent. They're not perfect but I'd rather have the current set up than some kind of free-for-all. Actually, given the choice, I'd use far more Filipinos who, in my experience, make an excellent replacement for the overpaid white face at the front of the class.

[puchooay]

if they have their heart in the right place, plus some training, especially in classroom management, the can be successful. There certainly is no need for western teacher qualifications to teach conversation, or even basic grammar, for that matter.

I think that's probably true (I have worked in the past as a TEFLer and still do on occasion so I know a little about this) but the problem is that you still need a way of weeding out the perverts, the alcoholics and the incompetent and the current regulations do do that to a certain extent. They're not perfect but I'd rather have the current set up than some kind of free-for-all. Actually, given the choice, I'd use far more Filipinos who, in my experience, make an excellent replacement for the overpaid white face at the front of the class.

So perverts and alcoholics don't have bachelor degrees?

I think, for now, the vetting process should be handed over to the schools. It would be very unlikely that a school would allow someone with "faults" to teach in their school.