British And American Teachers Found Dead In Thai Home

[F430murci]

they could have both taken a load of the valium, fell asleep and never woke up... if there was alcohol involved then mixing them would be a big factor.

of course, the suspicions are there and it is suspicious.

i had a friend die a couple of years back in my home country from taken a few xanax (another benzo) and drinking a few beers, went to bed and never woke up, and he was only 23.

Lol, would have had to be load of Valium. Valium is a very poor choice for ODing. Literally, there have been reports of people taking crazy amounts. I want to say I read a documented report in a treatise about an individual taking upward of 2,000 mgs, going to sleep and then waking up without any issues.

Valium more commonly dispensed in 5mg or 2.5mg so that would be 400 to 800 pills at those strengths. Valium is essentially liquid alcohol, but higher threshold than alcohol induced poisoning.

Discussing Valium as cause without knowing amounts dispensed or available is a bit like speculating ibuprofen caused death if empty Motrin bottle found in the room. Tylenol would actually be more likely to cause death when mixed with alcohol than typical amounts of Valium ingested for recreational purposes.

Clonazepam, however, can be a dangerous benzo.

[tinfoilhat]

UPDATE:

US, British teachers found dead near Bangkok

BANGKOK, Dec 8, 2012 (AFP) - Two English teachers, one American and the other British, have been found dead sitting side-by-side in the living room of an apartment on the outskirts of Bangkok, Thai police said Saturday.

The men, aged 40 and 35 respectively, were discovered in the early hours of Saturday morning, according to Lieutenant Colonel Chamnong Kongtapan, chief investigator at the local police station in Pathum Thani province.

Police, who are investigating the cause of death, found an empty medicine bottle in the room from a government-run drug rehabilitation center.

"The name of the British man was on the bottle but we don't know yet what kind of drug (was) inside," he said, adding there was no sign of injuries on the men's bodies, or that a struggle had taken place.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-12-08

"The name of the British man was on the bottle but we don't know yet what kind of drug (was) inside"

Didn't the initial article say it was Diazapam...??

oh come on man try to keep up.

the diazepam was in a blister pack

[euroflash]

According to a photo published by Daily News, one or both of them seem to have taken quite a few pills of the brand Evalin (manufactured in India?). Anyone familiar with this drug?

[peecee]

You don't usually hear of a double suicide, since a feeling of loneliness is usually a contributing factor and a second person would likely talk the first out of such a ridiculous idea. If it was a double suicide from drug overdose you would expect them to be on the ground in pain unless they had something that worked fast and was painless. If it was something accidental how likely is it that it would kill them both at exactly the same time so neither person had the chance to recognize that something was wrong?

Why did the woman who was living there with one of the men, and I also read she was married to him, leave for the whole night with no key on the same night that this rare occurence happened? How easy is it to put an empty packet of pills in the room and plan to have someone else open the door for you later to confirm that you were not in the room?

There are a lot of important details missing from the story that should be easy to get and it is either bad journalism or the police already have their suspicions and are not ready to come out with it yet until more information is obtained.

So what you're saying is that from now on I should always to my key with me if I leave my gf at my condo alone. Because if I don't take a key and she happens to die, you will accuse me of poisoning her and not having my key so that I have an alibi. Do you realise how ridiculous you are being. Even with a key, CCTV would have recorded the coming and going, and the guards would most likely have seen her, so not having a key doesn't prove anything, except that she was expecting them to be at home when she got back. Perhaps she's away often. Why is it odd that she wasn't there when they died? If she was there she might have been able to call for help, so it's obvious that people are more likely to die when there is no-on available to call for help.

What you say is so ridiculous that it's laughable.

<deleted>?

So if you gf decided to go shopping, or go for an appointement, or go to anywhere - you expect here to be at home to let you in?

This has nothing to do with anything in this thread. If you if you go out, and she locks her self in, as you tell her to - ............ oh wait a minute... I know your type! Forget it.. I have little more to add! If she had an accident, or slipped over and injured herself, you'd just go out and find your next gig, mai na? No key, couldn't help her - sorry BIB.

What you write is so ridiculous, and laughable.

-mel.

Don't be so stupid. If I pop out and she says she's staying in, why would I take the key? I don't ask her to lock herself in; she does it because she feels safer. I don't expect her to stay in. If she says she may go out I take my key.

You don't know my type at all. We're in a long-term relationship and I don't have any intention of finding anyone else. If she died I doubt I stay in Thailand and certainly wouldn't be looking for another woman. Maybe you can jump from relationship to relationship quickly, but not all of us want to live like that. So good luck with that.

I don't know either of your types but: Some people looking for an alibi work out how to do it long before; having guy's with pesticide photo'd, getting the poison and convieniently forgetting thier key! must have made a slip up somewhere? As previously said; identify the poison, look for the money, ask the guy's who were photo'd etc!!

It's not rocket science; even for the bib!!

[chrisinth]

A lot of posters are basing these deaths on drugs, which is likely a good assumption. Because there is little evidence of drugs in the condo, why does everyone think it was taken there given the timescale of the evidence given (bodies had been dead for up to 12 hours)?

Also in the earlier pages, the conspiricy party were in full flow that it must have been the Thai girl who had been living there. Did anyone think to ask what her job was that she wouldn't be there at night? Was she a nurse/doctor? Was she a hotel employee on the night shift? Numerous other jobs she could have. Was she coming back from out of town/country, etc, etc, etc.

I notice one poster has said (from the Thai news) that she had returned earlier and on getting no reply from the condo she booked into a nearby hotel.

Edited December 8, 2012 by chrisinth

[nurofiend]

they could have both taken a load of the valium, fell asleep and never woke up... if there was alcohol involved then mixing them would be a big factor.

of course, the suspicions are there and it is suspicious.

i had a friend die a couple of years back in my home country from taken a few xanax (another benzo) and drinking a few beers, went to bed and never woke up, and he was only 23.

Lol, would have had to be load of Valium. Valium is a very poor choice for ODing. Literally, there have been reports of people taking crazy amounts. I want to say I read a documented report in a treatise about an individual taking upward of 2,000 mgs, going to sleep and then waking up without any issues.

Valium more commonly dispensed in 5mg or 2.5mg so that would be 400 to 800 pills at those strengths. Valium is essentially liquid alcohol, but higher threshold than alcohol induced poisoning.

Discussing Valium as cause without knowing amounts dispensed or available is a bit like speculating ibuprofen caused death if empty Motrin bottle found in the room. Tylenol would actually be more likely to cause death when mixed with alcohol than typical amounts of Valium ingested for recreational purposes.

Clonazepam, however, can be a dangerous benzo.

was there a need for the Lol?

all benzos are dangerous and potentially lethal mixed with alcohol, including valium and you certainly don't need to take 2000mgs and mix it with alcohol to get alcohol poisoning and od.

and let's remember i wrote "they could have"

Edited December 8, 2012 by nurofiend

[F430murci]

According to a photo published by Daily News, one or both of them seem to have taken quite a few pills of the brand Evalin (manufactured in India?). Anyone familiar with this drug?

Evalin would be diazepam in this instance.

[Maestro]

...Edit: so it's now a bottle - same effect.... antidepressant liquid form - still doesn't kill!!

Not only liquid medicines come in bottles, many brands of tablets and capsules do, too.

[Maestro]

What a load of crap! Diazapam is well know as Valium. It's not a strong drug. There wasn't any mention of milligram dosage. Yellow are 5 mg and blue are 10mg. Unless they took a lot of blues and drank a liter or more of whiskey each, there's no way they died from an over dose of valium.

I believe the brand name Valium has not been mentioned in news reports. Not all brands and generic products of diazepam have the same colours.

[Maestro]

oh come on man try to keep up.

the diazepam was in a blister pack

Can't find any previous mention of blister pack in this topic.

[F430murci]

they could have both taken a load of the valium, fell asleep and never woke up... if there was alcohol involved then mixing them would be a big factor.

of course, the suspicions are there and it is suspicious.

i had a friend die a couple of years back in my home country from taken a few xanax (another benzo) and drinking a few beers, went to bed and never woke up, and he was only 23.

Lol, would have had to be load of Valium. Valium is a very poor choice for ODing. Literally, there have been reports of people taking crazy amounts. I want to say I read a documented report in a treatise about an individual taking upward of 2,000 mgs, going to sleep and then waking up without any issues.

Valium more commonly dispensed in 5mg or 2.5mg so that would be 400 to 800 pills at those strengths. Valium is essentially liquid alcohol, but higher threshold than alcohol induced poisoning.

Discussing Valium as cause without knowing amounts dispensed or available is a bit like speculating ibuprofen caused death if empty Motrin bottle found in the room. Tylenol would actually be more likely to cause death when mixed with alcohol than typical amounts of Valium ingested for recreational purposes.

Clonazepam, however, can be a dangerous benzo.

was there a need for the Lol?

all benzos are dangerous and potentially lethal mixed with alcohol, including valium and you certainly don't need to take 2000mgs and mix it with alcohol to get alcohol poisoning and od.

and let's remember i wrote "they could have"

My apologies if lol seemed to relate to the deaths. I am just laughing at conjecture regarding a very well documented drug with much information on contradictions. Do you know the LD50 of diazepam? Not sure I would jump to conclusion about diazepam OD being cause without such information. Hand full of APAP 500 plus alcohol would be potentially worse than a handful of blue Vs and alcohol.

[Kipperthai]

Interesting and slightly different story plus a pic in the bkk post.

[maidu]

Maybe the Thai neighbor was frying hot peppers in oil, and the victims' window was open, and they choked.

[Traveller45]

I hope somebody will ask for an autopsy. That is the only way to go to determine what was the real cause of death. Somebody also will have to reexamine the Crime Scene and find that little element that has been overlooked. Everything else, you are all right, is just idle speculation.

[nurofiend]

they could have both taken a load of the valium, fell asleep and never woke up... if there was alcohol involved then mixing them would be a big factor.

of course, the suspicions are there and it is suspicious.

i had a friend die a couple of years back in my home country from taken a few xanax (another benzo) and drinking a few beers, went to bed and never woke up, and he was only 23.

Lol, would have had to be load of Valium. Valium is a very poor choice for ODing. Literally, there have been reports of people taking crazy amounts. I want to say I read a documented report in a treatise about an individual taking upward of 2,000 mgs, going to sleep and then waking up without any issues.

Valium more commonly dispensed in 5mg or 2.5mg so that would be 400 to 800 pills at those strengths. Valium is essentially liquid alcohol, but higher threshold than alcohol induced poisoning.

Discussing Valium as cause without knowing amounts dispensed or available is a bit like speculating ibuprofen caused death if empty Motrin bottle found in the room. Tylenol would actually be more likely to cause death when mixed with alcohol than typical amounts of Valium ingested for recreational purposes.

Clonazepam, however, can be a dangerous benzo.

was there a need for the Lol?

all benzos are dangerous and potentially lethal mixed with alcohol, including valium and you certainly don't need to take 2000mgs and mix it with alcohol to get alcohol poisoning and od.

and let's remember i wrote "they could have"

My apologies if lol seemed to relate to the deaths. I am just laughing at conjecture regarding a very well documented drug with much information on contradictions. Do you know the LD50 of diazepam? Not sure I would jump to conclusion about diazepam OD being cause without such information. Hand full of APAP 500 plus alcohol would be potentially worse than a handful of blue Vs and alcohol.

fair enough re the lol, the ld50 of diazepam has far less meaning if they're downed with a load of booze though doesn't it?

that was my point... they could have taken a load of them and drank a lot of alcohol for all we know.

[F430murci]

I hope somebody will ask for an autopsy. That is the only way to go to determine what was the real cause of death. Somebody also will have to reexamine the Crime Scene and find that little element that has been overlooked. Everything else, you are all right, is just idle speculation.

Now this makes perfect sense. Absent mass spec or gas choreography, even alluding to drug overdose is irresponsible and a deviation from any acceptable standard.

[kruangfaifar]

drugs kill everywhere, but many are unaware of the dangers

Where was there any mention of drugs? Or du you know something about the deaths?

Read the external link. It says that Diazepam was found in the room

[F430murci]

Lol, would have had to be load of Valium. Valium is a very poor choice for ODing. Literally, there have been reports of people taking crazy amounts. I want to say I read a documented report in a treatise about an individual taking upward of 2,000 mgs, going to sleep and then waking up without any issues.

Valium more commonly dispensed in 5mg or 2.5mg so that would be 400 to 800 pills at those strengths. Valium is essentially liquid alcohol, but higher threshold than alcohol induced poisoning.

Discussing Valium as cause without knowing amounts dispensed or available is a bit like speculating ibuprofen caused death if empty Motrin bottle found in the room. Tylenol would actually be more likely to cause death when mixed with alcohol than typical amounts of Valium ingested for recreational purposes.

Clonazepam, however, can be a dangerous benzo.

was there a need for the Lol?

all benzos are dangerous and potentially lethal mixed with alcohol, including valium and you certainly don't need to take 2000mgs and mix it with alcohol to get alcohol poisoning and od.

and let's remember i wrote "they could have"

My apologies if lol seemed to relate to the deaths. I am just laughing at conjecture regarding a very well documented drug with much information on contradictions. Do you know the LD50 of diazepam? Not sure I would jump to conclusion about diazepam OD being cause without such information. Hand full of APAP 500 plus alcohol would be potentially worse than a handful of blue Vs and alcohol.

fair enough re the lol, the ld50 of diazepam has far less meaning if they're downed with a load of booze though doesn't it?

that was my point... they could have taken a load of them and drank a lot of alcohol for all we know.

Lol, irresponsible to speculate about OD absent mass spec or gas chromograhpy, especially if only substances known are diazepam and alcohol. Lol, some never admit to being wrong.

The LD50 would be a starting point for any medical pathologist or medical doctor, unless perhaps the the intent is to simply classify as an OD without basing diagnosis on any documented proof or medical standard of care.

The guys would very likely be on the other side of the LD50 dose if they are not neophytes in ingesting alcohol or benzos. Let's not let that scientific stuff get in the way though when we can can speculate not only what they drank and took, but how much they ingested.

[soi41]

I hope somebody will ask for an autopsy. That is the only way to go to determine what was the real cause of death. Somebody also will have to reexamine the Crime Scene and find that little element that has been overlooked. Everything else, you are all right, is just idle speculation.

Now this makes perfect sense. Absent mass spec or gas choreography, even alluding to drug overdose is irresponsible and a deviation from any acceptable standard.

Sometimes I wonder, how the police in your homecountries manage to solve crimes, when all the the forensic experts have migrated to Thailand??

A lot of references to old cases, all the discredit local lawenforcement at any price! The fact that the Canadian sisters died from a drugoverdose (confirmed by Canadian authorities) is ignored, because it doesn't fit the conspiracy theories.

A more recent case where an expat was killed by a fellow countryman in Phuket, caused the posters here to spew their venom over Thailand and Phuket in particular. What do you expect Thailand to do, when farang travel across the world to kill each other in their (the Thais) country.

A post here suggesting that at least one of the dead guys was a heavy druguser, is completely ignored, again because it doesn't fit the conspiracy picture.

[Jayman]

I hope somebody will ask for an autopsy. That is the only way to go to determine what was the real cause of death. Somebody also will have to reexamine the Crime Scene and find that little element that has been overlooked. Everything else, you are all right, is just idle speculation.

I hope your joking. An autopsy in this country goes to prove nothing at all. In fact, 9 times out of 10 it will bring more questions than answers.

As for the "crime scene", I'm sure it's been trampled over by BIB and the press and then the gf probably came in to do a full cleanup. No chance preserving a crime scene for Matlock is this country.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Jayman

[Jayman]

Sometimes I wonder, how the police in your homecountries manage to solve crimes, when all the the forensic experts have migrated to Thailand??

A lot of references to old cases, all the discredit local lawenforcement at any price! The fact that the Canadian sisters died from a drugoverdose (confirmed by Canadian authorities) is ignored, because it doesn't fit the conspiracy theories.

A more recent case where an expat was killed by a fellow countryman in Phuket, caused the posters here to spew their venom over Thailand and Phuket in particular. What do you expect Thailand to do, when farang travel across the world to kill each other in their (the Thais) country.

A post here suggesting that at least one of the dead guys was a heavy druguser, is completely ignored, again because it doesn't fit the conspiracy picture.

Wow.. I completely missed that one. What prey tell was the drug they overdosed on?

[arlissmichaels]

A post here suggesting that at least one of the dead guys was a heavy druguser, is completely ignored, again because it doesn't fit the conspiracy picture.

Noticed that too, most seem too busy discussing the strength of the depressant or if it is a law to take your key with you when you go out.

[Meetoo]

I hope somebody will ask for an autopsy. That is the only way to go to determine what was the real cause of death. Somebody also will have to reexamine the Crime Scene and find that little element that has been overlooked. Everything else, you are all right, is just idle speculation.

Now this makes perfect sense. Absent mass spec or gas choreography, even alluding to drug overdose is irresponsible and a deviation from any acceptable standard.

Sometimes I wonder, how the police in your homecountries manage to solve crimes, when all the the forensic experts have migrated to Thailand??

A lot of references to old cases, all the discredit local lawenforcement at any price! The fact that the Canadian sisters died from a drugoverdose (confirmed by Canadian authorities) is ignored, because it doesn't fit the conspiracy theories.

A more recent case where an expat was killed by a fellow countryman in Phuket, caused the posters here to spew their venom over Thailand and Phuket in particular. What do you expect Thailand to do, when farang travel across the world to kill each other in their (the Thais) country.

A post here suggesting that at least one of the dead guys was a heavy druguser, is completely ignored, again because it doesn't fit the conspiracy picture.

Excuse me !!! Can you please kindly provide this confirmation by the Canadian Authorities that the sisters died of a Drug Overdose ... kindly do so at your earliest convenience because it IS ABSOLUTELY NOT SO.... the canadian cornoer HAS STILL NOT RELEASED THEIR REPORT TILL NOW !! what rubbish you are saying !!

[patsouth]

Diazepam is a very safe drug (wide therapeutic window); very difficult to overdose on. You would need to swallow the whole bottle. Unless it wasn't diazepam...

[Meetoo]

From : " 'Redr0m"..... I know both guys through one of their colleagues . Charlie was an asshol_e doing all kind of drugs he could get hes hands on. Jonathan on the other hand, he was slightly retarded maybe a mild form .of asbergers., he just always did whatever Charlie was doing without questioning anything. All Jonathan friends always told him to back out of the spiral of drugs but it never happened and now look how it ended dam_n Jonathan was nothing but a big laughing boy ill miss him,

But im pretty sure they died from an overdose. So just stop all the conspiracies about Jonathans wife.

From Meetoo:

2 FULL pages later and nobody has read this post by "Redr0m" or is everybody just ignoring it so that they can continue being Inspector Clouseau ?? Ouf!!

[Jayman]

From : " 'Redr0m"..... I know both guys through one of their colleagues . Charlie was an asshol_e doing all kind of drugs he could get hes hands on. Jonathan on the other hand, he was slightly retarded maybe a mild form .of asbergers., he just always did whatever Charlie was doing without questioning anything. All Jonathan friends always told him to back out of the spiral of drugs but it never happened and now look how it ended dam_n Jonathan was nothing but a big laughing boy ill miss him,

But im pretty sure they died from an overdose. So just stop all the conspiracies about Jonathans wife.

From Meetoo:

2 FULL pages later and nobody has read this post by "Redr0m" or is everybody just ignoring it so that they can continue being Inspector Clouseau ?? Ouf!!

I read it and in fact actually quoted it properly (unlike yourself). You are never ever ever going to stop the arm chair detectives at their games of speculation. In fact, for some of them I think this is the most excited thing they have left in life.

For all we know.. Redr0m is the lover of Jonathon's wife and is in on the whole plot. Pretty sure I saw that in a movie so it must be a true possibility no?

Edited December 8, 2012 by Jayman

[ableguy]

Something smells funny here. In an upright position, surrounded by vomit? Kinda suspicious, I'd say.

Wow thank you Sherlock

[Kipperthai]

Something smells funny here. In an upright position, surrounded by vomit? Kinda suspicious, I'd say.

Wow thank you Sherlock

No vomit in the pics i've seen

[moskito]

my first thought was... AGAIN... after the 5 unsolved cases in Phe Phe Island... Lets hope they find the reason this time....

may they rest in peace, my condolences to family and friends

it should be in our all intrest to find the reason why they had to die

[fakename]

How many stories are there? Now she comes home, the door is locked, so security break in, she sees her husband and friend dozing off, but doesnt even ask him, "what the hell is going on, why didnt you open the door?" Either the reporters have every thing mixed up, or the lady has things mixed up. There are lots of reasons that people die, but when two die at the same time, it does sound a bit strange.