British And American Teachers Found Dead In Thai Home

[bendejo]

Were they tied up and/or gagged? Did they have wounds and bruises?

These kind of things are usually neglected mention in these reports.

Doesn't matter, right? After all, someone doesn't die from having their hands tied.

[MEL1]

QUote MEL : so it's now a bottle - same effect.... antidepressant liquid form - still doesn't kill!!

diazepam (aka valium) is an anxiolytic NOT an antidepressant.... stones and glass houses for you ?

I think you'll find here that diazepam is quite often, and of late assumed, to be an antidepressant of good effect!

So no, not stones and glass houses for me, thanks. I won't throw the pyhsiological anaylses that have been studied in conjunction with the psychoanalytical......

-mel.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2692764

Edited December 9, 2012 by MEL1

[MEL1]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

So you can confirm that he worked at Linguista for the last 4 years then, as you know him as a personal friend?

-mel.

[templedog]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

So you can confirm that he worked at Linguista for the last 4 years then, as you know him as a personal friend?

-mel.

Yes....of course, but why? I worked with him in his previous job.

I merely tried to end all the bizarre speculations that is often

a result from these tragedies. I was only trying to help.

[templedog]

Were they tied up and/or gagged? Did they have wounds and bruises?

These kind of things are usually neglected mention in these reports.

Doesn't matter, right? After all, someone doesn't die from having their hands tied.

NO FOUL PLAY INVOLVED.

[templedog]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

Yes, well said. Thank you.

Thank you!

[meatboy]

who gave the permision for their body's to be published on the front page of thai daily,showing the grim discovery.

[templedog]

who gave the permision for their body's to be published on the front page of thai daily,showing the grim discovery.

EXACTLY!! Thailand is a weird place where newspapers can print these horrific scenes

merely to sell newspapers. It should be illegal.

[Redr0m]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

So you can confirm that he worked at Linguista for the last 4 years then, as you know him as a personal friend?

-mel.

They didnt they worked for Ilingua and most recently sarasas Rangsit

[MEL1]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

So you can confirm that he worked at Linguista for the last 4 years then, as you know him as a personal friend?

-mel.

They didnt they worked for Ilingua and most recently sarasas Rangsit

The friend 'Templedog' disagrees with you. Do you know more than the friend does?

-mel.

[Redr0m]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

So you can confirm that he worked at Linguista for the last 4 years then, as you know him as a personal friend?

-mel.

They didnt they worked for Ilingua and most recently sarasas Rangsit

The friend 'Templedog' disagrees with you. Do you know more than the friend does?

-mel.

First of all im not in Thai at the moment. So i have no first hand info. But what Templedog writes sounds like the truth. They were both abusers Richie a former heroin junkie that got Jonathan into all the abuse, I wrote it all earlier in this thread page 4 i think.

[Heng]

A lot of speculation about the wife here. According to a report from a well known Bangkok newspaper website, the wife had just returned from work at the Ministry of Science and Technology. Upon arriving home she found the door to be "double locked". So perhaps she did have a key but only for one lock. The question could be asked, "Why did two middle aged men need to double lock the door?"

Four bottles of a drug rehabilitation treatment were found next to the two men. The old adage, where there's smoke, there's fire often fits.

By all means investigate all angles, but it's funny how a lot of folks around here gloss over people on antidepressants as a 'normal' thing.

A double lock by the way is simply a deadbolt keyed on both sides. She could have had a key and discarded it.

Also, IMO it would have seemed more 'normal' that you would first call a locksmith before you kicked down a door, even if no one was answering, but one's own rationale may vary..... I knew a girl who took a cutter to a tight (hard to get off) overalls type outfit she was wearing because she really had to urinate, and this was despite already being in the bathroom... instead of urinating with it on and simply washing the outfit.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Heng

[justaphase]

Just two guys trying for the ultimate high. It's so easy to die that way. Drink and any downers. Sad.

[Tazwa]

If I returned home at night and had to arrange for the front door to be forcibly

A lot of speculation about the wife here. According to a report from a well known Bangkok newspaper website, the wife had just returned from work at the Ministry of Science and Technology. Upon arriving home she found the door to be "double locked". So perhaps she did have a key but only for one lock. The question could be asked, "Why did two middle aged men need to double lock the door?"

Four bottles of a drug rehabilitation treatment were found next to the two men. The old adage, where there's smoke, there's fire often fits.

By all means investigate all angles, but it's funny how a lot of folks around here gloss over people on antidepressants as a 'normal' thing.

A double lock by the way is simply a deadbolt keyed on both sides. She could have had a key and discarded it.

Also, IMO it would have seemed more 'normal' that you would first call a locksmith before you kicked down a door, even if no one was answering, but one's own rationale may vary..... I knew a girl who took a cutter to a tight (hard to get off) overalls type outfit she was wearing because she really had to urinate, and this was despite already being in the bathroom... instead of urinating with it on and simply washing the outfit.

Agreed. If I returned home at night and had to arrange for the front door to be forcibly opened, I would find it strange if my partner and friend continued sleeping in their chairs; you would think one of them would wake from the commotion. The wife presumably didn't think this was odd.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts are being deleted. Please be civil and exercise care in your posts. There are people who know the deceased and will be looking at this thread. Let's not exacerbate their pain.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

[happysanook]

Returned in the morning from where.......I wonder........most of this tale is missing.

Why is it any of your business where someone has been? Do you post an update on TV every time you go out? Maybe she was visiting a friend.

...this is about as dumb as it gets. it isn't HIS business obviously... but you can bet it's the business of the law...or proper law i should say.

i don't post my whereabouts on TV, but then again i didn't go out all night and come back to my home with two dead bodies in it...conveniently without a key so security had to be called...which places her outside the scene...clearly she didn't have anything to do with it if she wasn't in the room with them when they were found...

I'm not a detective, but any nimwit with an iq of 50 or higher would realize the chick needs to be grilled, her story and recent history picked apart and investigated thoroughly...and the scene to be examined by profficient investigators ....all of which we know won't happen here.

[TommyDee]

QUote MEL : so it's now a bottle - same effect.... antidepressant liquid form - still doesn't kill!!

diazepam (aka valium) is an anxiolytic NOT an antidepressant.... stones and glass houses for you ?

it was a strip of about 8 tablets.. this is from the scene..

[geriatrickid]

Were they tied up and/or gagged? Did they have wounds and bruises?

These kind of things are usually neglected mention in these reports.

Doesn't matter, right? After all, someone doesn't die from having their hands tied.

NO FOUL PLAY INVOLVED.

I appreciate your position However, in the absence of a proper and investigation and an autopsy, the most appropriate position would be for some of the people posting their speculation and/or delusional conspiracy theories to <snip>.

My condolences on the death of your friend.

Edited December 9, 2012 by metisdead

[F430murci]

QUote MEL : so it's now a bottle - same effect.... antidepressant liquid form - still doesn't kill!!

diazepam (aka valium) is an anxiolytic NOT an antidepressant.... stones and glass houses for you ?

it was a strip of about 8 tablets.. this is from the scene..

8? Not 10? No matter, that and alcohol would not take down two large dudes down permanently especially guys that are neither opiate nor benzo naive. Heck, that would not even get them high if they have history of herion use.

Even though alcohol potentiates binding on GABA receptors, gonna need more than that one blister pack for two large dudes. Perhaps other stuff in room present, but showing a picture of this empty blister pack reflects the level of sophistication of those investigating.

That picture in Thai daily is despicable. Very insensitive. I doubt any due diligence will be exercised to investigate or run toxicology because they got that blister pack of some weak arse knock of Valium from India.

Edited December 9, 2012 by F430murci

[chrisinth]

Very bizarre.......almost reminds me of the British double heart attack victims in CM.......they both died sitting upright in a chair with signs of vomit?!

If I was chucking my guts up, I would not be calm and relaxed, sitting in an upright position, as if watching TV.

Can you picture it, the two blokes looking at each other vomiting and not doing anything about it?

Something not adding up here!

You've obviously never seen someone who's been sick while overdosed or drunk. They aren't calm and relaxed; they are more or less paralyzed That's why there are many deaths in the UK from drunk people choking to death on their own vomit. I don't think many of you understand this at all. You seem to think they were vomiting while relaxing and watching TV. They probably passed out and then vomited, and maybe choked to death. There are easy explanations for all of this. It's a little odd, but happens a lot more than many think it does. I've read plenty of stories like this in the UK over the years.

Yes many people do die in their sleep from vomitting but they are lying down in their beds. These guys were found sitting up in their chairs. If they were sick they wouldnt of died.

If they were sick, they likely wouldn't have choked on their vomit. This is the usual killer when people are lying on their backs, not what they have consumed (alchohol, drugs, solvents, etc) beforehand.

Not sure what you mean by "If they were sick they wouldn't of died"?

[sirchai]

The Diazepam found in the room mixed with alcohol gives a strong high. If the body is a bit dehydrated it is very easy for clogs to form in veins. Although the report don't say if they found alcohol in the room.

What a load of crap! Diazapam is well know as Valium. It's not a strong drug. There wasn't any mention of milligram dosage. Yellow are 5 mg and blue are 10mg. Unless they took a lot of blues and drank a liter or more of whiskey each, there's no way they died from an over dose of valium.

Thanks! So many "experts' here who don't know shit. People should consider that relatives and friends are also reading this .RIP guys, whatever has happened to you.

[sirchai]

"Police, who are investigating the cause of death, found an empty medicine bottle in the room from a government-run drug rehabilitation center.

"The name of the British man was on the bottle but we don't know yet what kind of drug (was) inside," he said, adding there was no sign of injuries on the men's bodies, or that a struggle had taken place.

​A medicine bottle from a rehabilitation center can only mean that at least the one guy had received Methadone. Valium is often also being used together with Methadone to get rid of the "turkey, " caused by heroin.

As a friend of them had already mentioned, there was no foul play involved.

Seems they fond some stuff that was too strong, or too dirty.RIP---

Edited December 9, 2012 by sirchai

[Pormax]

The Diazepam found in the room mixed with alcohol gives a strong high. If the body is a bit dehydrated it is very easy for clogs to form in veins. Although the report don't say if they found alcohol in the room.

What a load of crap! Diazapam is well know as Valium. It's not a strong drug. There wasn't any mention of milligram dosage. Yellow are 5 mg and blue are 10mg. Unless they took a lot of blues and drank a liter or more of whiskey each, there's no way they died from an over dose of valium.

Very true. Highly unlikly valium overdose.

[chrisinth]

I find it incredible that after two verifications (granted, it is an internet forum and the posters can't be confirmed) the speculation still goes on.

Key posts on the thread (IMHO):

#177 from rogerdee123

"The article says the door was double locked which I presumed meant it was locked with deadbolt (or similar) from inside. The security guard "forced open" the door"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/603615-british-and-american-teachers-found-dead-in-thai-home/page__st__175#entry5915256

(If the door was dead-bolted from the inside, how could the Thai lady get in?)

#178 from templedog

"One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/603615-british-and-american-teachers-found-dead-in-thai-home/page__st__175#entry5915279

#191 from Red0m

"First of all im not in Thai at the moment. So i have no first hand info. But what Templedog writes sounds like the truth. They were both abusers Richie a former heroin junkie that got Jonathan into all the abuse, I wrote it all earlier in this thread page 4 i think"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/603615-british-and-american-teachers-found-dead-in-thai-home/page__st__175#entry5915540

(two different sources telling the same story)

To repeat my earlier post (#125), everyone seems to be speculating on what was found in the apartment. Why could the drugs/alcohol not have been taken outside the premises before they returned? All alchohol/drugs/solvents take time to become effective (again, granted some faster than others). IMHO, the chemicals were already in the systems before they returned home and already reacting with the two victims before they even sat down!

[smotherb]

Come on let’s get real here, two people of nearly the same age maybe not the same stature even if they were , they would have different resistance factors two the same drug, one would surely have been able to see the other one was not 100% and done something about it? Call using in house phone or one of the two mobiles lying around. Both die the exact same time totally unbelievable. I would be looking for restraining items or marks of some sort. Or did they both made a suicide pact?

Some post on here should have more respect, eg Fox on TV un called for.

or, did they both pass out before death

[metisdead]

A post commenting on moderation has been removed.

A post commenting on another posters spelling mistakes has been removed. English is not always the first language of of our members, so don't waste space correcting other members' grammar and spelling mistakes.

[nurofiend]

fair enough re the lol, the ld50 of diazepam has far less meaning if they're downed with a load of booze though doesn't it?

that was my point... they could have taken a load of them and drank a lot of alcohol for all we know.

Lol, irresponsible to speculate about OD absent mass spec or gas chromograhpy, especially if only substances known are diazepam and alcohol. Lol, some never admit to being wrong.

The LD50 would be a starting point for any medical pathologist or medical doctor, unless perhaps the the intent is to simply classify as an OD without basing diagnosis on any documented proof or medical standard of care.

The guys would very likely be on the other side of the LD50 dose if they are not neophytes in ingesting alcohol or benzos. Let's not let that scientific stuff get in the way though when we can can speculate not only what they drank and took, but how much they ingested.

lol, lol, lol....what exactly am i wrong about?

"let's not get that scientific stuff get in the way"! is speculation on your behalf on the dosage they possibly took and whether they were mixing with a lot of booze or not.

i usually stay out of these type of threads, but suggesting diazepam may have been a factor since it was found in the room, is not exactly tinfoil hat material.

anyway, i don't enjoy people acting in a condescending manner, so carry on.

Too funny. You, not me, suggested they ODed an diazepam and booze. I said should wait until mass spec or gas choreography run and let science not forum room speculation decide it. So how the heck am I now the one speculating.

I guess you were just trying to save face by flipping that on me, otherwise I am communication with alzeheimers patient. Conversation we had went about like this: Dad, want go for a walk today. No, I am not hungry. I already ate. . .

i suggested the possibility of them od'ing on diazepam and boooze, WOW! if that's too far beyond your imagination then so be it, i won't waste anymore time trying to convinvce you that it is a possible reason.

Ciao.

[Markaew]

Very bizarre.......almost reminds me of the British double heart attack victims in CM.......they both died sitting upright in a chair with signs of vomit?!

If I was chucking my guts up, I would not be calm and relaxed, sitting in an upright position, as if watching TV.

Can you picture it, the two blokes looking at each other vomiting and not doing anything about it?

Something not adding up here!

You've obviously never seen someone who's been sick while overdosed or drunk. They aren't calm and relaxed; they are more or less paralyzed That's why there are many deaths in the UK from drunk people choking to death on their own vomit. I don't think many of you understand this at all. You seem to think they were vomiting while relaxing and watching TV. They probably passed out and then vomited, and maybe choked to death. There are easy explanations for all of this. It's a little odd, but happens a lot more than many think it does. I've read plenty of stories like this in the UK over the years.

Yes many people do die in their sleep from vomiting but they are lying down in their beds. These guys were found sitting up in their chairs. If they were sick they wouldn't of died.

If they were sick, they likely wouldn't have choked on their vomit. This is the usual killer when people are lying on their backs, not what they have consumed (alcohol, drugs, solvents, etc) beforehand.

Not sure what you mean by "If they were sick they wouldn't of died"?

Your point is taken but they were sitting up.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Markaew

[Markaew]

There are several posts that are concluding that these guys were users. They would have to be rookies to make this level of a mistake so they would not be hard core users. If they were in fact users then they would be savvy enough to know better about the mixture.

[Johnniey]

My condolences to friends and family of these 2 men.

This was basically the way I lived 15 - 20 years ago. I even worked in Inlingua for 3 years. This could easily have been myself but I got clean.

I want to say that it is impossible for 2 men like this to overdose on Valium and alcohol - there MUST have been another ingredient in the cocktail.

Valium is not an antidepressant like a couple of poster said. Addict don't take valium to get high - usually used as a substitute when the drug of choice has run out. Alcoholics also use valium for withdrawal.

Like another poster said - I've known many to take very large quantities of valium with no ill effects.