Farming Seems A Funny Business

[somo]

This is to provoke debate and not to criticise.

My mental image of a farmer is a rather gruff, tough down to earth figure but it seems to me

after reading this forum for some time that we are just businessmen trying to turn a profit. I say "we" although farming is actually a relatively small part of my life/income. I for one would not have got involved if I hadnt seen a profit to be made.

The plus side for me is that I do get a buzz out of seeing things grow. Everything we have comes from the land and vegetation is the source of life. The way it sucks goodness out of the sky and creates matter I find amazing.

I do have a love of it for that very reason. Personally I can't get my head around animal farming. Getting atached to another living being and then killing it somehow seems a bit sick. I am not a vegetarian but find the mass production of meat fairly revolting. Equating the weight of an animal with $'s while patting it on the head I find odd. On a small scale where the animals lead a normal life then fine. guess I am a bit hypocritical in this respect but that's the way i feel.

Getting back to agriculture and business I can't help but compare it with the stock market.

You buy land, invest in it, wait a bit and hopefully harvest a profit. Along the way all sorts of ups and downs can occur just as in share investment. lack of rain, too much rain, jst the right amount of rain etc etc can make the difference between profit or loss.

Bit of a long post but to summarize.

Do you view farming as an investment or a way of life?

Do you have a preference for agriculture or animal farming?

What makes a farmer special?

[loong]

Do you view farming as an investment or a way of life?

Do you have a preference for agriculture or animal farming?

What makes a farmer special?

Re farming as an investment: My venture into farming was with the idea that my family may have an income when I am no longer around.

Like you, nature amazes me and I love to see things grow. I would go into livestock if I thought that it could provide an income stream, but that would be a totally new area for me. It doesn't concern me about killing an animal for food, but if I were a pig farmer or something like that, I would try to make their life as comfortable as possible and when the time came to harvest would see that it was done humanely.

It really sickens me at times when I hear a pig sqealing as it is being clubbed to death or being hung by its back legs as its throat is cut.

I don't know that a farmer is special by virtue of being a farmer. Some farmers are special in that they will try to take care of the environment or at least keep the negatives to a minimum.

Isaan Aussie is an example of what makes a farmer special. He realises that he cannot always do what is best for the planet, but will make sure that any damage that he may cause is kept to the absolute minimum.

[Gary A]

I too bought farmland as an investment in my wife's future. I'm not going to be around forever and when I am dead and gone she will basically get nothing. She WILL have the land and after eight years of putting up with me, she has definitely earned it. It has appreciated greatly and hopefully she will sell it rather than continue to work it.

[tingtong]

Everyone has different circumstances in life, here is my answers to your questions:

Do you view farming as an investment or a way of life?

Why cant be 'it is both a bit' the answer?

I am generally young, and working, but i prefer to plan for the future. It seems that settling down to Thailand is the way we go. So, having a farm achieves me 2 things:

- keep my wife busy, while giving her the satisfaction that she contributes some to the family's income. She worked in hospitality, but over 40 she would be considered old in most job. and with kid, evening hours in restaurant/hotel is not much an option, especially when i am abroad. Next to Bkk it was next to nothing to find to work, where we lived it is 99% small family run/operated biz...maybe small shops are better way to describe them.

- while i work abroad, my spending occurs in THB. those who are here long enough all know that the exchange rate effects our living a lot. way too much, than i thought it would. but the last 10 yrs my salary technically stayed as it was, the exchange rate went from 43 to 30 for $, and the prices at least doubled.

having a farm, whatever and however small income it makes, it does in THB. on top, i save on not buying things, but having them/growing. and as a bonus i know what i eat. seriously, what is my work with my mango trees? water them sometimes if i feel, and weed around a bit maybe once a yr? on the other hand i know what grows there is chemical free, organic, and "free".

If the mango doubles in price, so what? same goes on rice, and chili, banana, and whatever we have.

Do you have a preference for agriculture or animal farming?

Prefer a mixture. have few ducks, try some pigs, have fish. I personally dont kill/eat any of our animals, but what those who buy them do? well, should i care? that is their biz.

The target to integrate some, to achieve better results. As i see pigs, if breakeven to raise them, than i still gain the free fertiliser, for example. For pet, i have the dogs, for love i have my son and wife. Animals are biz on the farm.

What makes a farmer special?

Nothing

As some note:

Realise that for living one needs a sizeable plot of land for any kind of agriculture. Current prices seem to be prohibitive for me already, being young, and with no massive savings, no cashed in insurance, or 401k, or whatever.

But having a city house is no pension neither, for the same money, i think farm has a chance to offer better life for us, if the other values stay the same.

As for the stocks...companies can issue new shares anytime.

There is no way to make more land in the future, and with tendency to go for cities, and white collar jobs, at one point in the future i believe food production/farming will become more valueable. I have half a life ahead, so, i have to plan for this future.

sorry for the long answer, hope didnt feel boring.

[somo]

Loong I agree to an extent. I don't think I would go into livestock just for the money but I take your point that not being involved in any killing would make it more of a possibility.

Gary you reflect what I felt. My wife is 14 years younger than I and it stands to reason she will probably survive me and will need something to live off.

Tingtong (great username by the way) I do think the farang farmers here are special if only because there are so few of them trying to survive doing something different to 99.9% of their fellows back home.

In general I also think farming is special in that it is directly linked to our survival. That makes it important.

[jonnyscot]

I suppose I may be what you'd call a part time farmer or a hobby farmer since I'm still working 5 week shifts offshore, but for both my wife and myself it's a way of life that we have chosen and so far are very happy with, however I'd agree with you that we wouldn't be doing so much if we were losing money,, I've limited experience in farming myself but I'm an enthusiastic learner and I have never been one for sitting on my bum all day long and nowadays I'm not much of a drinker, so I needed something to occupy my time here and for me this fits the bill perfectly and keeps the wife happy, being active on the farm really gives me a buzz,, we've been experimenting with various plants such as Bamboo, Lotus, Citrus trees etc,,and we both agree its rewarding to see what we have achieved on the land in such a short period of time, we don't have any livestock although the wife has investments in duck farming which has been giving her decent returns for the past couple of years, financially speaking we'll never make what I'd call decent money from the wife's land unless we buy more land.

Jonny

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Bluetongue]

The Queen Street farmer is an integral part of the farming scene.No honestly Somo like any business farms need investment. But for you surely it cannot be lifestyle. For me it is, my investment is relatively small compared to other assets.

I'm glad that I've got into fruit here, just wandering around when the sprinklers were on today I ate a few pieces that the pickers missed, delicious sweet and juicy. I had a small amount of experience in Australia working on cattle properties only small scale breeder operations but the issues were more pressing and more potentially complex or distressing I feel. I enjoyed the home kill to eat but quite glad I didn't see it happen.

I dont think farmers are special just ordinary hard working people who maybe wear their hearts on their sleeves a bit more than most.

[Mosha]

Although Sopha and I are of a similar age. If anything happens to me, she has something to fall back on.

[jamescollister]

There are 2 types of farang farmers here, those that see farming as a hobby, as their income comes from elsewhere. If things go bad they won't be heading home to go on welfare, if they make a profit all the better.

Then there is the other type, farming is their life, they are few and far between, but they are out there. AI is one and a Brit about 15 km from me, though I really don;t class rubber as farming, but I make my money off the land as well. I think these guys are special or maybe just crazy. There is no parachutes for them, no nice homes in the west to return to, no investments to fall back on. Not met a young one yet, so they won't be heading back to well paid jobs.

They have made a lifestyle choice, taken the path less followed, bet their future on a dream To be their own man, not working for the man.

Strange enough, the few that I have met over the years seem to make the dream real, when there is nothing to fall back on or nothing to go back to, failure is not an option.

Yesterday I dropped in to see the Brit, he was in the front of his house chopping cassava. Not for fun, but to make a living and live he does, wife and 3 kids to support. His rice shed is full and the cassava will supply the cash for the coming year.

Not everyone's cup of tea. Jim

[tingtong]

Jim, i am not that convinced that those you mentioned dont get or wont get any pension income from their home country...maybe not to make a great living, but again, just for getting by you dont need a whole lot in the countryside should you choose to live a moderate life.

surely there is no gogo bars with neon signs in our village, nor a standard restaurant where you can buy a plate of food form 100 baht or up....all cheap standard thai fares and places, if one can call some even that.

anyway, while you see mostly old folks has couple of reasons, part that most profession is per se restricted for the younger to work here and stay with their family all the time, whereas most if not born with a silver spoon just wont have the capital yet to do a sizeable investment to start to live off from that....give them another 20 yrs, they can get there...but then you can see more "old folks" only again.

this is how life is from the point of view of a yonger farang.

[jamescollister]

Jim, i am not that convinced that those you mentioned dont get or wont get any pension income from their home country...maybe not to make a great living, but again, just for getting by you dont need a whole lot in the countryside should you choose to live a moderate life.

surely there is no gogo bars with neon signs in our village, nor a standard restaurant where you can buy a plate of food form 100 baht or up....all cheap standard thai fares and places, if one can call some even that.

anyway, while you see mostly old folks has couple of reasons, part that most profession is per se restricted for the younger to work here and stay with their family all the time, whereas most if not born with a silver spoon just wont have the capital yet to do a sizeable investment to start to live off from that....give them another 20 yrs, they can get there...but then you can see more "old folks" only again.

this is how life is from the point of view of a yonger farang.

Can't comment on AI, but know the man and think he is in the same boat as me.

The Brit has no pension or outside income, is the same age as me, 56 may get a UK pension when he turns 65. Unlike AI and I, no old age pension if you are not classed as a permanent resident.

The Brit came out here to Issan about the same time as me, but he had been running a bar in Pattaya in it's hay days, for 10 years, a profit making one . On the birth of his second child, he decided that a Bar in Pattaya was not the place to raise children. He bought 50 rai up here and 10 rai in the village limits. Tried pigs etc, but now does 50 of cassava. Not a cassava man so don't know the return. His wife's family do 100 rai of rice communally and rice is divided up on a need bases, extra is sold and money divided up. They have chickens and wife sells them dressed at the local markets, plus a few other earners, bamboo, fish, ducks, frogs and anything else that makes a Baht. They live, no outside income.

In my case not a penny from the outside world, left $4,000 dollars with my sister for emergency plane tickets, mother is in her late 80s. Live hand to mouth most of the years, but live,

Same as when I worked, only a few pay days from poverty, but unlike the west no money and we still have our house. No real hard ship, kids have I pads, drink liters of milk, go to a good school in a car I could never afforded back in OZ.

There are others out there that make a living off the land , with no or little outside income. No tax on small farming, what you earn is what you get. It takes 5 or 6 years to get to the point where you can say I have made it, but as said in the earlier post. If you have nothing to go back to, then failure is not an option.

If you are young enough to do the hard yards, do your home work and go for it, you can be a free man. Jim

[Mosha]

Jim, i am not that convinced that those you mentioned dont get or wont get any pension income from their home country...maybe not to make a great living, but again, just for getting by you dont need a whole lot in the countryside should you choose to live a moderate life.

surely there is no gogo bars with neon signs in our village, nor a standard restaurant where you can buy a plate of food form 100 baht or up....all cheap standard thai fares and places, if one can call some even that.

anyway, while you see mostly old folks has couple of reasons, part that most profession is per se restricted for the younger to work here and stay with their family all the time, whereas most if not born with a silver spoon just wont have the capital yet to do a sizeable investment to start to live off from that....give them another 20 yrs, they can get there...but then you can see more "old folks" only again.

this is how life is from the point of view of a yonger farang.

Can't comment on AI, but know the man and think he is in the same boat as me.

The Brit has no pension or outside income, is the same age as me, 56 may get a UK pension when he turns 65. Unlike AI and I, no old age pension if you are not classed as a permanent resident.

The Brit came out here to Issan about the same time as me, but he had been running a bar in Pattaya in it's hay days, for 10 years, a profit making one . On the birth of his second child, he decided that a Bar in Pattaya was not the place to raise children. He bought 50 rai up here and 10 rai in the village limits. Tried pigs etc, but now does 50 of cassava. Not a cassava man so don't know the return. His wife's family do 100 rai of rice communally and rice is divided up on a need bases, extra is sold and money divided up. They have chickens and wife sells them dressed at the local markets, plus a few other earners, bamboo, fish, ducks, frogs and anything else that makes a Baht. They live, no outside income.

In my case not a penny from the outside world, left $4,000 dollars with my sister for emergency plane tickets, mother is in her late 80s. Live hand to mouth most of the years, but live,

Same as when I worked, only a few pay days from poverty, but unlike the west no money and we still have our house. No real hard ship, kids have I pads, drink liters of milk, go to a good school in a car I could never afforded back in OZ.

There are others out there that make a living off the land , with no or little outside income. No tax on small farming, what you earn is what you get. It takes 5 or 6 years to get to the point where you can say I have made it, but as said in the earlier post. If you have nothing to go back to, then failure is not an option.

If you are young enough to do the hard yards, do your home work and go for it, you can be a free man. Jim

He'll get his pension at 66 Jim, I'm in the same boat. Luckily I get a company pension.

[jamescollister]

Jim, i am not that convinced that those you mentioned dont get or wont get any pension income from their home country...maybe not to make a great living, but again, just for getting by you dont need a whole lot in the countryside should you choose to live a moderate life.

surely there is no gogo bars with neon signs in our village, nor a standard restaurant where you can buy a plate of food form 100 baht or up....all cheap standard thai fares and places, if one can call some even that.

anyway, while you see mostly old folks has couple of reasons, part that most profession is per se restricted for the younger to work here and stay with their family all the time, whereas most if not born with a silver spoon just wont have the capital yet to do a sizeable investment to start to live off from that....give them another 20 yrs, they can get there...but then you can see more "old folks" only again.

this is how life is from the point of view of a yonger farang.

Can't comment on AI, but know the man and think he is in the same boat as me.

The Brit has no pension or outside income, is the same age as me, 56 may get a UK pension when he turns 65. Unlike AI and I, no old age pension if you are not classed as a permanent resident.

The Brit came out here to Issan about the same time as me, but he had been running a bar in Pattaya in it's hay days, for 10 years, a profit making one . On the birth of his second child, he decided that a Bar in Pattaya was not the place to raise children. He bought 50 rai up here and 10 rai in the village limits. Tried pigs etc, but now does 50 of cassava. Not a cassava man so don't know the return. His wife's family do 100 rai of rice communally and rice is divided up on a need bases, extra is sold and money divided up. They have chickens and wife sells them dressed at the local markets, plus a few other earners, bamboo, fish, ducks, frogs and anything else that makes a Baht. They live, no outside income.

In my case not a penny from the outside world, left $4,000 dollars with my sister for emergency plane tickets, mother is in her late 80s. Live hand to mouth most of the years, but live,

Same as when I worked, only a few pay days from poverty, but unlike the west no money and we still have our house. No real hard ship, kids have I pads, drink liters of milk, go to a good school in a car I could never afforded back in OZ.

There are others out there that make a living off the land , with no or little outside income. No tax on small farming, what you earn is what you get. It takes 5 or 6 years to get to the point where you can say I have made it, but as said in the earlier post. If you have nothing to go back to, then failure is not an option.

If you are young enough to do the hard yards, do your home work and go for it, you can be a free man. Jim

He'll get his pension at 66 Jim, I'm in the same boat. Luckily I get a company pension.

I should have been getting a Government pension at 55, but they gave the money away and changed the rules. It's all gone. May get some money from the UK worked there for 10 odd years, but they are broke as well, so won't hold my breath.

Lucky to have live this long, better no pension and alive, Buddha will take care of tomorrow, so I will drink beer and water coconuts today. Jim

[tingtong]

As for a younger one, as mentioned before, now the biggest problem is ( apart from having a legal work here, maybe) that price of land became so high, that it is kind a prohibitive to enter a more serious level of farming.

On top, there is not that much on sale in this area.

Went to see a 50 rai sugarcane land...yes, out of curiousity, as i dont have that 3 million baht in my pocket, and then the owner wanted to even up that 65k/rai to 80k...well, good luck.

the moral is:

many times mentioned that a 50-100 rai land would be needed, some emergency fund, and then enough working capital for plnating till harvest to last as well....

now, this in my vocabulary is 4-10 million baht...

the good thing that i have a job. the bad thing that my salary havent changed in the last 8 yrs or so...blame economics?

at this point if i look back how much i made in the past yrs, and where i should be to do the above farming, i cant see that bright light in the tunnel...

and yet the kíd's school and other expenses will just rise as he enters his teens, no illusions there.

pension of any kind: not in this lifetime. doesnt matter where my residency will be. so, should anything happens to me, we have what we have. and i dont feel to start to forage for frogs or grasshoppers just yet. but yes, try to live bellow our means and with our limited land(12 rai) we also try out a few things, fish in ponds, rice turn into sugar, and pigs, apart from growing some fruits and veggies for our use.

i am 2 decades younger than you, so, who knows what the future brings

i dont envy anyone working hard for their well being now...only i wish to spend more time at home with family, and less away.

[revar]

Tingtong, We are here.

I am44 and me and Noy worked in holland for 12 years to save some money. we moved to thailand were we have 11rai of rice fields. bought an extra rai and build our pigfarm. no outside income and savings dispappeared when we had to sell our house in holland at a big loss. So we have to live from our farm.

If we are lucky I'llget a pension of around 20k a month when I turn 67.

Only backup/safety net is that I got my tefl and can always teach.

Did that for a half year and am good at it but I love pigfarming more and want to be my own boss.

Still love this life an wouldn't go back to Holland were I was a manager at a big multinational.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[jamescollister]

As for a younger one, as mentioned before, now the biggest problem is ( apart from having a legal work here, maybe) that price of land became so high, that it is kind a prohibitive to enter a more serious level of farming.

On top, there is not that much on sale in this area.

Went to see a 50 rai sugarcane land...yes, out of curiousity, as i dont have that 3 million baht in my pocket, and then the owner wanted to even up that 65k/rai to 80k...well, good luck.

the moral is:

many times mentioned that a 50-100 rai land would be needed, some emergency fund, and then enough working capital for plnating till harvest to last as well....

now, this in my vocabulary is 4-10 million baht...

the good thing that i have a job. the bad thing that my salary havent changed in the last 8 yrs or so...blame economics?

at this point if i look back how much i made in the past yrs, and where i should be to do the above farming, i cant see that bright light in the tunnel...

and yet the kíd's school and other expenses will just rise as he enters his teens, no illusions there.

pension of any kind: not in this lifetime. doesnt matter where my residency will be. so, should anything happens to me, we have what we have. and i dont feel to start to forage for frogs or grasshoppers just yet. but yes, try to live bellow our means and with our limited land(12 rai) we also try out a few things, fish in ponds, rice turn into sugar, and pigs, apart from growing some fruits and veggies for our use.

i am 2 decades younger than you, so, who knows what the future brings

i dont envy anyone working hard for their well being now...only i wish to spend more time at home with family, and less away.

Have said this before. if I came here now, I could never afford to even start. Land prices and labor have gone through the roof. I am it the end of nowhere in Thailand and all I see is building and investment. This is not a new frontier now, roads, electricity, and the world is coming, but there are still places out further. Many villages still have no roads or power, these are the forgotten parts. Even here, where the army built a road, people openly carry firearms. Go a few km into the jungle and there are deals to be made, just as when I first came here.

Wife's family may have been here, but she was raised by an Aunt, near BKK. since she was 7 or 8 years old. It was me that wanted to come, not her.

If you want something go for it, no one is starving out here, as for work permits never heard of anyone being bothered by them for feeding their family working a farm. In fact met a few who don't even have a current passport, never mind a visa. Jim

[DerkMR]

i cant see that bright light in the tunnel...

Quite often the bright light is the train coming to roll over the optimists going into the tunnel when seeing the light

I'm just starting a try with rented 5 rai. 60k rent for a year including the house - and the 2 fishponds already have some marketable pla nin.

As I'm getting a time limited pension (health reasons, to be renewed every 2 years) this is mainly to keep busy and build up a future for my GF.

I'll try with pla nin, pla tabtim, frogs and fruit. The pla nin will be replaced by others when the last are grown up as there are too many offered in the local market, so I'll focus on the not commonly available species.

Besides what is meant to produce income for the GF I keep pla kat and orchids to kep me busy (mai mee work permit ).

Bye,

Derk

[tingtong]

Tingtong, We are here.

I am44 and me and Noy worked in holland for 12 years to save some money. we moved to thailand were we have 11rai of rice fields. bought an extra rai and build our pigfarm. no outside income and savings dispappeared when we had to sell our house in holland at a big loss. So we have to live from our farm.

If we are lucky I'llget a pension of around 20k a month when I turn 67.

Only backup/safety net is that I got my tefl and can always teach.

Did that for a half year and am good at it but I love pigfarming more and want to be my own boss.

Still love this life an wouldn't go back to Holland were I was a manager at a big multinational.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

i know revar that there is some younger members

but i know that is not the majority, hope you agree.

in 8 yrs when i reach your age, i hope to say the same...ok, make it 4...though 4 yr plans never worked that good in the history.

i live ( when not working) in thailand the last 11 yrs now...simple farming didnt enter my mind in the first 9...too bad, but late to think of that now.

till last yr's flood forced us out of town, we only visited countryside once in a while, and was only a distant thought to move away from the city once kid grows up...

life doesnt follow plans. so, 2nd yr in the middle of nowhere on a farm now

still i think i need to clarify a point a bit:

all the investments are what most( maybe all) of us brought here are from outside...be that more or less...not too much chance to grow after if start with limited land/resources. so, jump for it full time?, no, not just yet!

say, i mentioned sugarcane field to buy, at 60k/rai, and maybe 4-5k/yr optimistic return, that just to recoup the land price is 12-15 yrs...that wont work on a bank loan, nor wont allow to buy new parcel to grow. the same time would bring in an optimistic 20k/month...not quite enough with a family to get by anymore.

sometimes this questions the things, fundamentally.

Just as Jim agreed, here and before, that today's cost might not allow the same thing that past prices did...

and just say past exchance rate vs today's...10yrs and -30% on USD for one...with prices doubling at least ...but not my salary.

but just stay on topic.

[Mosha]

Jim, i am not that convinced that those you mentioned dont get or wont get any pension income from their home country...maybe not to make a great living, but again, just for getting by you dont need a whole lot in the countryside should you choose to live a moderate life.

surely there is no gogo bars with neon signs in our village, nor a standard restaurant where you can buy a plate of food form 100 baht or up....all cheap standard thai fares and places, if one can call some even that.

anyway, while you see mostly old folks has couple of reasons, part that most profession is per se restricted for the younger to work here and stay with their family all the time, whereas most if not born with a silver spoon just wont have the capital yet to do a sizeable investment to start to live off from that....give them another 20 yrs, they can get there...but then you can see more "old folks" only again.

this is how life is from the point of view of a yonger farang.

Can't comment on AI, but know the man and think he is in the same boat as me.

The Brit has no pension or outside income, is the same age as me, 56 may get a UK pension when he turns 65. Unlike AI and I, no old age pension if you are not classed as a permanent resident.

The Brit came out here to Issan about the same time as me, but he had been running a bar in Pattaya in it's hay days, for 10 years, a profit making one . On the birth of his second child, he decided that a Bar in Pattaya was not the place to raise children. He bought 50 rai up here and 10 rai in the village limits. Tried pigs etc, but now does 50 of cassava. Not a cassava man so don't know the return. His wife's family do 100 rai of rice communally and rice is divided up on a need bases, extra is sold and money divided up. They have chickens and wife sells them dressed at the local markets, plus a few other earners, bamboo, fish, ducks, frogs and anything else that makes a Baht. They live, no outside income.

In my case not a penny from the outside world, left $4,000 dollars with my sister for emergency plane tickets, mother is in her late 80s. Live hand to mouth most of the years, but live,

Same as when I worked, only a few pay days from poverty, but unlike the west no money and we still have our house. No real hard ship, kids have I pads, drink liters of milk, go to a good school in a car I could never afforded back in OZ.

There are others out there that make a living off the land , with no or little outside income. No tax on small farming, what you earn is what you get. It takes 5 or 6 years to get to the point where you can say I have made it, but as said in the earlier post. If you have nothing to go back to, then failure is not an option.

If you are young enough to do the hard yards, do your home work and go for it, you can be a free man. Jim

He'll get his pension at 66 Jim, I'm in the same boat. Luckily I get a company pension.

I should have been getting a Government pension at 55, but they gave the money away and changed the rules. It's all gone. May get some money from the UK worked there for 10 odd years, but they are broke as well, so won't hold my breath.

Lucky to have live this long, better no pension and alive, Buddha will take care of tomorrow, so I will drink beer and water coconuts today. Jim

Even company pensions are delayed by law until 55 now. A mate was due to get his and they changed the rules the month before he was 50. Lads still at work can't escape until 63

[somo]

I also had nothing when I first came here (abouy 500 quid) and certainly not enough to start farming. I had to make my seed money (pun intended) here.

Having made and lost a couple of fortunes already I vowed to hang on to any money I made.

I too have no pension (even state) to fall back on or any assets back home. Life is here and now and always has been for me.

I have been fortunate and managed to create a couple of reasonably successful businesses here but still don't have enogh to retire to my village home though hopefully that won't be too long.

About 5 years ago I was lucky to be able to buy about 35 rai at a decent price but as discussed elsewhere this is not enought to live on.

Since then it has been impossible to buy or rent more land as I hoped so my dream of farming over 100 rai and sitting back is on hold. I have had to explore other ways to increase my "village income" and that is coming along.

One thing about not being in my village all the time is that I miss opportunities. If I had been there last week Iwould have been able to "jam" 30 rai for 100k Baht. Jamming is where you lend money in return for use of the land for a specified time - 5 yrs in this case.

Not being on the spot the chance went but I am confidentthat once I do settle there more opportunities will spring up.

Many farang moan about the difficulties of working here and it is certainly harder than say Cambodia but I have still found it full of opportunity compared to the UK where once you are down it is for the count.

Re UK state pensions I think I may elegable for about 500 Baht a week in about 3 years. Not to be scoffed at as that should still be about enough for a case of beer Chang which will taste all the better (if that is possible) for being free

[Bluetongue]

My worry is that there will be too much lamyai and the price will go down. Pure and simple. No, not the laughing gas in a can just pure economics. If the supply keeps going up what will happen to the demand. Then I look at SIL's disease ridden mature trees that should be flogging ours and I feel a bit easier, there are a lot of people here that have trees and for one reason or another dont maximise their yield.

Apart from that I had a 6 year plan when I came here to the sticks, that was to invest a bit, and spend the rest to get to the pension which I should get when I am 55, rule changes yet to happen. So now we have added to my wife's existing orchard, with one purchased and one rented plus some village land as yet undeveloped. Now I am a year and a half out. Mind you I made two efforts to live here in the 90s that were in hindsight doomed to fail due to a complete lack of knowledge and maturity about what I was doing. Hopefully just fortunate I never cashed in the super.