Hello guys,

I'm sorry if this question has been raised a million times. Contemplating retiring in Chiang Mai with my wife. Right now I'm an insurance consultant and I can pretty much do this anywhere in the world as long as high speed internet is available. I just turned 50 years old. My biggest problem now is that I do not have enough to plop down $26,000 in a Thai bank so that is not an option.

I do have $1000 per month coming in from an investment property and that will be long term. If I do move to Chiang Mai, I'll work far less hours but still charge my boss a salary of $1500 per month. So we would have a total of $2500 per month coming in. But since I'm not technically "retired" does the $1500 from my work salary count towards the required 65,000 Bhat needed for incoming salary? Also, technically I'd be working in Thailand but for a US domiciled company.

Any thoughts on this topic?

Thanks in advance for your help...

Pete S.

working = work permit, etc / too many hoops.

Your either retired or working. Just save yourself 26K, come here as a retiree and work electronicly, but keep it to youself.

If you are a citizen of the US, you have to fill in an "income Affidavit" at the US Embassy or consulate. The affidavit is a sworn, notarized statement, stating the amount of money that you are receiving each month from outside of Thailand. No proof for the Embassy is required. However, some immigration offices require proof in addition to the income affidavit when you apply for the retirement extension. So to answer your question, yes the amount that you are receiving should qualify.

However, as a previous post points out, legally you need a wotk permit if you are receiving income from performing work even if it is on the internet. But, many do it without a work permit.

If you are a citizen of the US, you have to fill in an "income Affidavit" at the US Embassy or consulate. The affidavit is a sworn, notarized statement, stating the amount of money that you are receiving each month from outside of Thailand. No proof for the Embassy is required. However, some immigration offices require proof in addition to the income affidavit when you apply for the retirement extension. So to answer your question, yes the amount that you are receiving should qualify.

However, as a previous post points out, legally you need a wotk permit if you are receiving income from performing work even if it is on the internet. But, many do it without a work permit.

Thanks for the replies everyone!

If you are a citizen of the US, you have to fill in an "income Affidavit" at the US Embassy or consulate. The affidavit is a sworn, notarized statement, stating the amount of money that you are receiving each month from outside of Thailand. No proof for the Embassy is required. However, some immigration offices require proof in addition to the income affidavit when you apply for the retirement extension. So to answer your question, yes the amount that you are receiving should qualify.

However, as a previous post points out, legally you need a wotk permit if you are receiving income from performing work even if it is on the internet. But, many do it without a work permit.

P

Phuket immigration office requires Proof to back up the letter u get from the US embassy as i checked last week. Also heard Surat Thani does. For now Bangkok does not but.....

Currently here in Bangkok they do NOT require a proof of that 65K Baht income requirement that statement from the U.S. embessy at immigration shows at Chaeng Wattana for a retirement extension.

Exactly how long this will last .... frankly, who knows.

There is a 3rd way to neet the financial requirement ... but I don't know if you could meet it or not.

Yiu can used the COMBINED option ..... which means you could have:

1, LESS than the required 800K Thai Baht in a Thai bank accont AND

2. A monthly income LESS than 65K Thai Baht montly

but the TOTAL of these income sources are greater than the 800K amount annually.

In my particular case I had about 600K in my Thai bank accont and a verified 50K monthly income.

Note that both of these are below the minimum requirement,

But sincs the annual TOTAL is over 800K, they approved the retirement extension.

No "seasoning requirement:" (no 3 month in bank requirement) either,

BUT not all immigration offices will necessarily approve this combination method.

Also immigration may be stricter on the first (initial) application than a later renewal (2nd or 3rd time).

So I DON'T gaurentee it will work everywhere,

But It DID work for me, here in Bangkok on my 3rd renewal.

It might be worth looking into this combination method for you,

Also your big problen will be that "working on line" as mentioned ... so keep that very quiet.

combo works in Phuket :-)

My take on the OP's situation. What I would try in his shoes. My opinion.

The income property stream assuming it comes from outside Thailand can probably be used for a portion of the income requirement. Thailand law says nothing about restricting the income to pensions. I would document this income stream even if not needed for an embassy/consulate letter in case of being questioned at immigration.

For the income stream for work done in Thailand underground sans work permit -- there is NO WAY I would claim such income for retirement extension qualification purposes. What if you were asked about your income? You couldn't answer. You couldn't say the truth, that's for sure.

Doing the work without work permit? Many people do. Keep it on the down low with no Thai economic involvement and the truth is as long as the activity is otherwise legal (not porn, etc.) that immigration simply will not be concerned. There is the risk if you make a local enemy that they might threaten to rat you out, so bottom line you should be aware that what you are doing would technically be illegal.

So in this scenario the OP would need to do a COMBO application, 12K USD from income letter, the remainder in Thai bank account, no seasoning needed. Maybe you could get a short term loan to do that, as no seasoning is needed, and you can drain the account the minute you've get your annual extension stamps.

Good luck.

Edited December 23, 201213 yr by Jingthing

Back up to any income document for immigration can be a Thai bank book showing foreign fund transfers into it on a regular basis.

There is no requirement for proof of where that money comes from as long it comes from outside Thailand.

Edited December 24, 201213 yr by ubonjoe

Back up to any income document for immigration can be a Thai bank book showing foreign fund transfers into it on a regular basis.

There is no requirement for proof of where that money comes from as long it comes from outside Thailand.

Yes, correct about requirements.

But let's imagine an interview. They have the option and right to ask anything they want and demand any proof they want IF they are suspicious of you, and what are they most suspicious about in general? Illegal working in Thailand.

So Mr. Smith, I see your income statement from your embassy. Is that income a PENSION?

No? So what is that income from?

Working?

1 post deleted.

We do not allow the discussion of illegal activities.

If you are a citizen of the US, you have to fill in an "income Affidavit" at the US Embassy or consulate. The affidavit is a sworn, notarized statement, stating the amount of money that you are receiving each month from outside of Thailand. No proof for the Embassy is required.

Would this also apply to Canadian citizens going to the Canadian consulate in Bangkok? I am in BKK on a tourist visa (2 entries), have been here one month, am over 50 years old, and would like to obtain a 1 year retirement visa. My passport is US as i'm a dual citizen, but reside in Canada when i'm not a tourist in LOS.

I'm not sure i understand the point of this "income affidavit". If the US embassy requires "no proof" of what one states their income to be, couldn't anyone lie about their income? And then use the "income affidavit" to help them obtain a retirement visa?

However, some immigration offices require proof in addition to the income affidavit when you apply for the retirement extension. So to answer your question, yes the amount that you are receiving should qualify.

What would constitute "proof", if my monthly income is in the form of life annuities that are of a sufficient amount to qualify for the retirement visa? Bank statements? A letter from my Canadian bank or anniuty company? Receipts from Thai ATMs showing account balances totalling over 800K Baht? I'd rather not deposit 800K or any large sums into Thai banks if not necessary.

Edited December 24, 201213 yr by oldthaihand99

Making a false statement for your income affadavid is a federal offence.

Thai immigration is aware that the embassies of soem countries don't require proof. Sometimes they require additonal proof of income as an extra check.

As a US-citizen, you need to go to the US embassy even if your income is from another country than the US.

This "proof" issue can be a can of worms.

Technically, under the national rules, immigration officers should accept the embassy/consulate letters as proof of the income claimed.

Some (I think most) nationalities demand proof under their specific nationality rules to issue these letters. So you can't generalize about that for all nationalities.

Some nationalities demand no proof.

Thai immigration is aware of the major countries that demand no proof.

Thai immigration is within their rights to demand their own proof to defend the income "proved" in the income letters and are probably more likely to ask that of nationalities known to require no proof to get their letters. Doesn't mean they will though but many applicants feel more comfortable being prepared to be questioned.

What specific proof will Thai immigration accept in the case that they ask? Again, how can you generalize about that? It can change over time, across different immigration offices, across different officers in the same office and also subject to so called "crackdowns" which seem to predictably erupt sometimes and then magically fade away. So for those in the boat where they think they might be subject to such questions, yes they can try to closely follow specific reports from applicants over time, but those details can change on a dime.

Others may give you ideas of what proof to be ready to provide, I'm sure, but that hardly reflects any official rules or concrete clear policies.

Edited December 24, 201213 yr by Jingthing

This "proof" issue can be a can of worms.

Technically, under the national rules, immigration officers should accept the embassy/consulate letters as proof of the income claimed.

Some (I think most) nationalities demand proof under their specific nationality rules to issue these letters. So you can't generalize about that for all nationalities.

Some nationalities demand no proof.

Thai immigration is aware of the major countries that demand no proof.

Thai immigration is within their rights to demand their own proof to defend the income "proved" in the income letters and are probably more likely to ask that of nationalities known to require no proof to get their letters. Doesn't mean they will though but many applicants feel more comfortable being prepared to be questioned.

What specific proof will Thai immigration accept in the case that they ask? Again, how can you generalize about that? It change change over time, across different immigration offices, across different officers in the same office. So for those in the boat where they think they might be subject to such questions, yes they can try to closely follow specific reports from applicants over time, but those details can change on a dime.

Others may give you ideas of what proof to be ready to provide, I'm sure, but that hardly reflects any official rules or concrete clear policies.

Interesting. I've noticed legal firms that offer to help people obtain retirement visas advertize different requirements for obtaining the same.

Some claim you don't need the medical or police checks, BTW which could be a problem obtaining if in Siam & not one's home country. One i saw even claimed to be able to obtain this visa for clients even if one failed to satisfy the financial requirements.

Would you recommend any particular law firms in BKK for this purpose?

Edited December 24, 201213 yr by oldthaihand99

Interesting. I've noticed legal firms that offer to help people obtain retirement visas advertize different requirements for obtaining the same.

Some claim you don't need the medical or police checks, BTW which could be a problem obtaining if in Siam & not one's home country. One i saw even claimed to be able to obtain this visa for clients even if one failed to satisfy the financial requirements.

Would you recommend any particular law firms in BKK for this purpose?

Different issues there! If obtaining retirement extensions or O visas IN Thailand to begin the retirement extension process in Thailand, medical or police reports are not required of anybody! (OK, a few provincial offices like Sri Racha require the medical, but those are just weird exceptions).

If getting an O-A visa in your home country, only one option to start retirement in Thailand, never a required option, those always require the medical and police report.

To obtain retirement extensions in Thailand without meeting the financial requirements, whether by yourself or with a lawyer, certainly happens, but it is illegal. So this ain't the place for advice on that; perhaps a bar stool?

Edited December 24, 201213 yr by Jingthing

Interesting. I've noticed legal firms that offer to help people obtain retirement visas advertize different requirements for obtaining the same.

Some claim you don't need the medical or police checks, BTW which could be a problem obtaining if in Siam & not one's home country. One i saw even claimed to be able to obtain this visa for clients even if one failed to satisfy the financial requirements.

Would you recommend any particular law firms in BKK for this purpose?

Different issues there! If obtaining retirement extensions or O visas IN Thailand to begin the retirement extension process in Thailand, medical or police reports are not required of anybody! (OK, a few provincial offices like Sri Racha require the medical, but those are just weird exceptions).

If getting an O-A visa in your home country, only one option to start retirement in Thailand, never a required option, those always require the medical and police report.

To obtain retirement extensions in Thailand without meeting the financial requirements, whether by yourself or with a lawyer, certainly happens, but it is illegal. So this ain't the place for advice on that; perhaps a bar stool?

i think you have read some "delited post" before .....

Back up to any income document for immigration can be a Thai bank book showing foreign fund transfers into it on a regular basis.

There is no requirement for proof of where that money comes from as long it comes from outside Thailand.

Yes, correct about requirements.

But let's imagine an interview. They have the option and right to ask anything they want and demand any proof they want IF they are suspicious of you, and what are they most suspicious about in general? Illegal working in Thailand.

So Mr. Smith, I see your income statement from your embassy. Is that income a PENSION?

No? So what is that income from?

Working?

I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill out of this.

If they see that your money is coming from outside of Thailand the will ask no questions and certainly would not think you are working in Thailand.

Many people have income other than from Pensions. It could be coming from a 401K or any type of savings account.

Edited December 25, 201213 yr by ubonjoe

Back up to any income document for immigration can be a Thai bank book showing foreign fund transfers into it on a regular basis.

There is no requirement for proof of where that money comes from as long it comes from outside Thailand.

Yes, correct about requirements.

But let's imagine an interview. They have the option and right to ask anything they want and demand any proof they want IF they are suspicious of you, and what are they most suspicious about in general? Illegal working in Thailand.

So Mr. Smith, I see your income statement from your embassy. Is that income a PENSION?

No? So what is that income from?

Working?

I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill out of this.

If they see that your money is coming from outside of Thailand the will ask no questions and certainly would not think you are working in Thailand.

Many people have income other than from Pensions. It could be coming from a 401K or any type of savings account.

OK. I respect your opinion. However, my opinion is that claiming a large portion of income you earn working illegally in Thailand to qualify for retirement extensions which have a strict no working in Thailand rule is a bridge too far in cheekiness. I wasn't referring to OTHER forms of income other than pensions. I was referring to income earned working illegally in Thailand. I wouldn't do it (claim that income for immigration purposes). Others would. Cheers.

Edited December 25, 201213 yr by Jingthing

OP maybe I have missed something here in you asking about retirement extension after a suitable visa is obtained but if your wife is Thai and you are legally married what is wrong with getting a marrage extension. 400.000 baht and paperwork etc half the price.

Interesting. I've noticed legal firms that offer to help people obtain retirement visas advertize different requirements for obtaining the same.

Some claim you don't need the medical or police checks, BTW which could be a problem obtaining if in Siam & not one's home country. One i saw even claimed to be able to obtain this visa for clients even if one failed to satisfy the financial requirements.

Would you recommend any particular law firms in BKK for this purpose?

Different issues there! If obtaining retirement extensions or O visas IN Thailand to begin the retirement extension process in Thailand, medical or police reports are not required of anybody! (OK, a few provincial offices like Sri Racha require the medical, but those are just weird exceptions).

If getting an O-A visa in your home country, only one option to start retirement in Thailand, never a required option, those always require the medical and police report.

To obtain retirement extensions in Thailand without meeting the financial requirements, whether by yourself or with a lawyer, certainly happens, but it is illegal. So this ain't the place for advice on that; perhaps a bar stool?

Which one is better/easy to get "obtaining retirement extensions or O visas IN Thailand OR getting an O-A visa in your home country"?

Since I am hoping to apply for O_A visa in Sydney soon.

Different rules - in home country financials can be in home country but you need medical and police reports. Coverstion to one year extension in Thailand requires financials in Thailand or proof here if from outside (embassy letter) but no medical/police reports but does require a non immigrant entry to begin. Most people starting with an O-A from home country will change to the same extension within Thailand at some point.

What is the basic step by step process of upgrading to a one year retirement visa after entering Thailand with a tourist visa?

Edited December 25, 201213 yr by oldthaihand99

With 15 days or more remaining you convert to non immigrant 90 day entry and during the last 30 days of that entry you extend for one year on basis of retirement You will need to meet financials in Thailand but not seasoned for conversion and have them seasoned (if required) for extensions.

With 15 days or more remaining you convert to non immigrant 90 day entry and during the last 30 days of that entry you extend for one year on basis of retirement You will need to meet financials in Thailand but not seasoned for conversion and have them seasoned (if required) for extensions.

Does this process work for "tourists" in Thailand?...

"Non-Immigrant visas will NOT be issued for such purposes as tourism, visiting friends, seeking employment opportunities, looking for a school for teaching or studying purposes, etc."

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=131

Your quote has nothing to do with conversion at immigration inside Thailand - you do this in the extension of stay process so you are no longer a tourist once issued. It is the way for those one tourist visa entry or visa exempt entry to remain in Thailand and extend there stay for retirement if they are over age 50 and meet the financials. But not all immigration officers will do - but Bangkok will do if your province does not. You show financials and pay 2,000 baht for the non immigrant entry and then during the last 30 days you extend normally using TM.7 for 1,900 baht fee.

What is the basic step by step process of upgrading to a one year retirement visa after entering Thailand with a tourist visa?

I had to go thru this last year and it was something of a pain. First thing though is if you have a 30 day tourist visa get to immigration fairly quickly because it takes a few weeks to complete the process.

Go to immigration. Let the people at the information booth know what you want to do and they will give you the correct form to fill out. Fill it out. Get a ticket and wait for perhaps hours till your number is called. They will ask for copies of your passport - picture page, entry card, visa page - a picture, perhaps a document showing where you are residing and the biggie of course is proof of financial security. This is either 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or the equivalent of 65,000 baht a month in pension type of thing. Of course who gets pensions any more?

If it's the 800,000 baht in the bank, bring your passbook updated to that day and copies of that. Last year I had to show proof from the Thai bank that the money in my account came from outside the country. The bank gave me a letter saying this. If its the 65,000 baht a month, you need to go to your embassy and get an income form from them showing that you have this money coming in each and every month. As has been mentioned countries treat this differently - some like the USA take your word for it, others like the UK want to see definite proof before they will issue the Income Form. I have heard rumors that the USA embassy will soon be asking for proof. If this turns out to be true, I know a bunch of people that will be troubled.

Your immigration officer will take all this information and if everything looks good to them, they will give you a date to come back to get your 1 year visa. I think for me it was 10-14 days later. When you go back, get a multiple visa as well if you plan on leaving the country more than once during that year - it is a different process - again go to the information booth and get a form. The whole thing with the multiple visa costs about 5000 baht.

My problem last year was that though I had the Income form from the US embassy the immigration lady pretty much threw it in my face and told me it was worthless. Fortunately I had the 800,000 baht in an account but I had no proof of where the money came from. So I had to wait a few days till my bank produced a statement and could write up a letter. Now this year I went for my renewal and the income form was accepted without a word and I was in and out in 30 minutes. Some of this may be different depending on where you go to do this. I did it in Bangkok.

If you had a 30 day stay suspect it was a visa exempt entry rather than a tourist visa and the old standard was make application for conversion with 21 days or more remaining - that is no longer enforced and down to 15 days and perhaps even 9 days for a 15 day border entry are now allowed. First step is obtaining a non immigrant visa entry of 90 days (it is no longer done in one process and you will have to return 60 days later with final financial proof even if your money seasoning is valid on first application). The costs is 2,000 for non immigrant entry plus 1,900 during later visit for one year extension plus 1,000 or 3,800 (multi) for re-entry permit if you buy them.

As for US Embassy letter have been using for a decade in Bangkok and never questioned but always have proof if required (indeed many of us do have pensions or annuities).

Since I am hoping to apply for O_A visa in Sydney soon.

Can you get an O-A visa in Sydney, or is it only issued in Canberra? I thought only *embassies* could issue an O-A now, and that consulates could only issue O visas?

If you apply for a retirement extension in Thailand using income to qualify, I believe the Australian Embassy is one of the places that does not require proof of the income.

You have two types of consulates. There are the honorary consulates where someone who is a private citizen of the host country is allowed to issue visas and render assistence to nationals of the country they represent, etc. They are not Thai government employees and have limited functions. Honorary consul is something they do besides their job, often as lawyer. Honorary consulates cannot issue a O-A visa.

General Consulates are official representatives and the employees are Thai government officials. They are allowed to issue O-A visas.