Pension/bank Combo For Retirement Extension Rejected By Phibun

[Hedghog]

If you haven't got the 800,00 in the bank.

Revert to marriage,400,000.

If you haven't got that???

[Hedghog]

My 800,000

Sits in the bank earning a little interest,presently 3.30%.

It also acts as a security blanket should I need to return home to Bligh ty.

Forward planning I believe.

[Hedghog]

If you have have done extensions for 16 years,only 200,000.in the bank,

As you must of been here in the financial crisis.

[NoshowJones]

I have seen no policy change, but believe Phibun requires the money to be seasoned even in the case of the combined option. Which is not confirming the rules.

Suggest you call the government information hotline 1111, they will connect you with an English speaking immigration officer who can tell you the current rules. If need be they will call Phibun immigration and ask for an explanation and call you back.

Mario, I just wonder why different emigration offices are allowed to make up their own rules, in my case, my emigration office is Phitsanulok, I wanted a combination with my O visa based on marriage which they won't allow, but some others do.

[lopburi3]

No office that I am aware of will allow combination for marriage - it is not in the rules. Only 400k or 40k are the options for Thai wife extension of stay.

[NoshowJones]

and phuket requires a letter from ur bank verifying ur income ( for Americans) using the embassy letter. But combo does not need seasoning, ( YET)

Why or why cant they just be universal with the requirements??? That's a rhetorical question btw as we all know if u have been here long enough , nothing makes sense.

This is Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

No office that I am aware of will allow combination for marriage - it is not in the rules. Only 400k or 40k are the options for Thai wife extension of stay.

You can do it in Bangkok. I think it was Siam Legal who told me this. But then TIT, even top Legal companies can be wrong.

[lopburi3]

No you can not do it in Bangkok.

[TomTao]

I faced a situation when doing my last extension at the Ranong office where the officers kept moving the goalposts, my wife and I finally had enough so we went to Bangkok and tried doing the extension there, we were told we had to do the extension at Ranong but we didn't leave till my wife had bent the officer's ear about the going ons at Ranong, the officer in Bangkok said the Ranong office had no right to make the demands they were since I satisfied the income requirement. I was told to speak to the head office in Ranong and if I had no success to submit a written complaint at Bangkok, the head office in Bangkok must have made a call while we were on the way back because by the time we got to see the officers in Ranong thier attitude had completely changed, not a problem since. Rather than making a call to Bangkok it may be worth your while to go and speak to a senior officer in Bangkok, you just may see a positive change in your local office.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Foggy Bottom]

I'm just wondering if the OP had any sort of grandfathering under older rules, given that they've been getting their visa extension for 16 years. Perhaps this "local change" to the rules is designed to get them to change visa type and thus lose the potential grandfathering, thus bringing their application under current rules.

Or is that just giving the Phibun office too much credit for sneaky cleverness?

[Anon999]

Phibun has always looked for a 3-months seasoning for combos, just a little quirk and I believe most local expats were well aware of that. Believe me, acting perplexed was easy - no effort needed mate, as Thai Immigration does tend to bring that feeling on quite regularly don't you think?

Okay, so the list seems to be growing: Khon Kaen, Hua Hin and Phibun require funds-seasoning for the combo method. Sri Racha requires a medical certificate. Any more local non-standard idiosyncrasies to be aware of?

Amnat Charoen also requires a medical cert.

[TomTao]

I have seen no policy change, but believe Phibun requires the money to be seasoned even in the case of the combined option. Which is not confirming the rules.

Suggest you call the government information hotline 1111, they will connect you with an English speaking immigration officer who can tell you the current rules. If need be they will call Phibun immigration and ask for an explanation and call you back.

Mario, I just wonder why different emigration offices are allowed to make up their own rules, in my case, my emigration office is Phitsanulok, I wanted a combination with my O visa based on marriage which they won't allow, but some others do.

According to what an officer told me when my wife and I went to the head office for a gripe, so long as you meet one of the requirements you are ok, the officer also said that the local officers should not be making thier own rules as they go along.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[davidstipek]

Elwood...

I just did renewal of my Retirement Visa. In Chiang Mai. Money had to be in account for specified time... Correct!!

Used Account and monthly retirement funds (X 12 Months) gave me excess of what total I needed!! Retirement Visa Stamp dated Dec. 14th 2012. Good until Dec. 26th 2013 (as I still had time on current Visa... Did not loose!!)

If they want to jack you around come to Chiang Mai, Immigration is almost next door to Airport. Exit and make a right from Airport, first chance make a U-turn. You will see Immigration on right again. Turn into any shops on your side of road to park, as limited parking in Immigration area. walk accross road and complete your task. Come super early to get que number, I got here about 0545hrs and was one of the first to be processed. Other then the wait for office to open, took 2 hrs (after they opened).

I agree with other post to call Bangkok and get someone straightened out!!! Not fair to you!!

David

[elwood]

If you have have done extensions for 16 years,only 200,000.in the bank,

As you must of been here in the financial crisis.

That would be nice but doesn't apply. My visa extensions were for marriage for the first few years, then I changed to retirement. When they upped the ante a few years ago on retirement extensions, I hadn't been on them for enough years to be able to stay at the old level (400,000?).

[Mario2008]

If you have have done extensions for 16 years,only 200,000.in the bank,

As you must of been here in the financial crisis.

That would be nice but doesn't apply. My visa extensions were for marriage for the first few years, then I changed to retirement. When they upped the ante a few years ago on retirement extensions, I hadn't been on them for enough years to be able to stay at the old level (400,000?).

Not so much do with how long you were in Thailand. The rule is that you must be in Thailand since before 21 October 1998, and ever since been on an extension based on retirement. If youmeet that criteria, you only have to show 200,000 baht in the bank or 20,000 baht income if over 60, and 500,000 or 50,000 baht if between 55 and 60.

[elwood]

If you have have done extensions for 16 years,only 200,000.in the bank,

As you must of been here in the financial crisis.

That would be nice but doesn't apply. My visa extensions were for marriage for the first few years, then I changed to retirement. When they upped the ante a few years ago on retirement extensions, I hadn't been on them for enough years to be able to stay at the old level (400,000?).

Not so much do with how long you were in Thailand. The rule is that you must be in Thailand since before 21 October 1998, and ever since been on an extension based on retirement. If youmeet that criteria, you only have to show 200,000 baht in the bank or 20,000 baht income if over 60, and 500,000 or 50,000 baht if between 55 and 60.

I was here before that date, but originally based on marriage; I didn't begin the retirement method until well after 1998. So, by changing from marriage to retirement I unwittingly buggered things up didn't I? Such is life, full of "If onlys" eh?

[lopburi3]

Post with invalid link removed.

[true blue]

Elwood...

I just did renewal of my Retirement Visa. In Chiang Mai. Money had to be in account for specified time... Correct!!

Used Account and monthly retirement funds (X 12 Months) gave me excess of what total I needed!! Retirement Visa Stamp dated Dec. 14th 2012. Good until Dec. 26th 2013 (as I still had time on current Visa... Did not loose!!)

If they want to jack you around come to Chiang Mai, Immigration is almost next door to Airport. Exit and make a right from Airport, first chance make a U-turn. You will see Immigration on right again. Turn into any shops on your side of road to park, as limited parking in Immigration area. walk accross road and complete your task. Come super early to get que number, I got here about 0545hrs and was one of the first to be processed. Other then the wait for office to open, took 2 hrs (after they opened).

I agree with other post to call Bangkok and get someone straightened out!!! Not fair to you!!

David

correct me if u wish david,but i thought u could only renew your visa in the district you live,post looks as your saying get a flight up here,

[davidstipek]

Elwood...

I just did renewal of my Retirement Visa. In Chiang Mai. Money had to be in account for specified time... Correct!!

Used Account and monthly retirement funds (X 12 Months) gave me excess of what total I needed!! Retirement Visa Stamp dated Dec. 14th 2012. Good until Dec. 26th 2013 (as I still had time on current Visa... Did not loose!!)

If they want to jack you around come to Chiang Mai, Immigration is almost next door to Airport. Exit and make a right from Airport, first chance make a U-turn. You will see Immigration on right again. Turn into any shops on your side of road to park, as limited parking in Immigration area. walk accross road and complete your task. Come super early to get que number, I got here about 0545hrs and was one of the first to be processed. Other then the wait for office to open, took 2 hrs (after they opened).

I agree with other post to call Bangkok and get someone straightened out!!! Not fair to you!!

David

correct me if u wish david,but i thought u could only renew your visa in the district you live,post looks as your saying get a flight up here,

You are correct on that point! So I politely will agree with you.

We have a house in Nanthaburi (Bangkok) and Nong Hoi (Chiang Mai) so I forget that point... Sorry! Everyone...

But I physically went back to Chiang Mai Immigration and ask 2 of my friends there One is a Major and the other a Sr. Major Master Sgt. , They both said (off the record... because this happens sometimes to get Tea Money) Call or Visit Headquarters for Immigration Div. Royal Thai Police in Bangkok. They will get a fluent English speaking Officer to you. Give him / her all (complete details) of what happened and ask them to either call or visit your contact office. It would be a nice gesture on your behave if you after your talk present them with a basket of some sort. Would make their Office move a little quicker on your behalf. Thai's do it why not farangs too?

I take to Chiang Mai Office everyyear, soething to be shared for eveyone from Seattle, this year I took 3 Smoked Salmon (my brother had caught and smoked. They even stop me in the Mall to talk and say hello... A little effort goes a long way! (I was just does a cultural thing... tey did something for me.. so I returned the favor. Matters not how big or small... just that I did something!)

By the way "Happy New Year! and Merry Christmas!!

David

Edited January 2, 2013 by davidstipek

[lopburi3]

We do not do it because it is most often illegal and what they have done is there job. What Thai do is there business; but what foreigners do is also subject to there laws and for most this does not allow presenting gifts to foreign officials. And these officials clearly understand this; and most respect it, in my experience. Suspect the best gift you can provide is doing your homework, having a good attitude, and making there job as easy as possible. This does not require physical gift giving.

[Khunangkaro]

A polite meeting, good idea. And perhaps take along a copy of the regs, in English for you, the Thai version for him, both copies highlighted and open to the same page. And just say, "I don't understand, what can I do to extend my visa now?" Then wait for his suggestion.

Mac

It's a near six foot bird.

A polite meeting, good idea. And perhaps take along a copy of the regs, in English for you, the Thai version for him, both copies highlighted and open to the same page. And just say, "I don't understand, what can I do to extend my visa now?" Then wait for his suggestion.

Mac

In Dec.2010 on a Friday I went to Immigration Amnat Charoen for retiree one-year-extension. They refused, because combi (income + bank deposit) > 800K THB was not accepted. No proof with regulations that I asked for......

Used the weekend to download, copy(×2) and study:

...

New Regulations For Extensions Of Non-immigrant Visas Police Order 777/2551 dated Nov 25, 2008. English & Thai as follows:

-Police Order 777/2551 English-

Police Order 2008.pdf (104.89K)

-Police Order 777/2551 Thai-

RTP777_2551.pdf (848.98K)

About monetary requirements:

Retired: Clause 2.22, §(3) OR §(4) OR §(5).

Thai wife: Clause 2.18, §(6).

...

Went back to immigration on Monday. Said I would like to apply for

retiree one-year-extension. As a matter of fact, again with regular documents including income and bank deposit. Each less than 800K, together more than that.

As the officers remembered me and showed that case was closed last Friday, I politely offered a copy of the Police Order 777/2551 Thai. Opening at page ๑๒(12). Highlighted:

๒.๒๒{Clause 2.22},

(๓) { §(3) } & หรือ {OR=last word},

(๔) { §(4) } & หรือ {OR=last word},

(๕) { §(5) } & all three lines.

Copy brought to boss at main desk.

First reaction: "Look we told you, it must be §(3) Income, OR §(4) deposit".

Obviously it is fixed in the mind that an OR can only point at two cases.

So I pointed at "OR §(4)" as last single third case.

And then followed a couple of minutes reading scratched head and finally: "Yes COMBI can". Boss ordered to process extension. Boss was happy to keep a copy (Thai+English) of the Regulations.

It is extremely useful if you can speak and read enough Thai.

Stay cool, neutral, never offensive neither defensive, always polite!

Not waist their and your time with distracting small talk. Just matter of fact and give them time for thinking. Wait and see. Repeat your argument the same as long as they not change their mind. If they say the rules have changed, ask for written orders. The rules didn't change, they must do with "Police Order 777/2551 dated Nov 25, 2008" as you presented.

Success.

[Khunangkaro]

It seems not to be possible to click the PDF files in my post. Maybe this works:

New Regulations For Extensions Of Non-immigrant Visas Police Order 777/2551 dated Nov 25, 2008

English version (PDF):

New_Immigration_Rules_November_2008.PDF (104.89K)

Number of downloads: 8269

Original Thai version (PDF):

RTP777_2551.pdf (848.98K)

Number of downloads: 1126

Otherwise you can find on this site or Google.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Khunangkaro

[Maestro]

The PDF files to which Khunangkaro refers can be downloaded from the pinned topic Important Visa Information > Useful Immigration Information & Visa Descriptions > Laws, regulations, Police Orders, etc., under the title "Permission to stay, extension of stay, re-entry permit and other immigration matters"

Thai Police Order 777/2551 – basis for extension of stay

Thai Police Order 777/2551 – Thai text

The above should preferably be read in conjunction with this:

Immigration Bureau Order 305/2551 – documents for extension of stay

Immigration Bureau Order 305/2551 – Thai text

[Khunangkaro]

Anon999 posts :

"Amnat Charoen also requires a medical cert".

They never asked me.

By the way:

I changed to "Thai Wife" extension, twice now. This month same papers as last year PLUS RECENT ทะเบียนสมรส คร.2 that we got at amphor for 10 BHT. This shows you are still married. I was told this needed now every office because farang has been tampered with the colored คร.3

[elwood]

It seems not to be possible to click the PDF files in my post. Maybe this works:

New Regulations For Extensions Of Non-immigrant Visas Police Order 777/2551 dated Nov 25, 2008

English version (PDF):

New_Immigration_Rules_November_2008.PDF (104.89K)

Number of downloads: 8269

Original Thai version (PDF):

RTP777_2551.pdf (848.98K)

Number of downloads: 1126

Otherwise you can find on this site or Google.

That's a very helpful post, thanks. When I re-visit the office I will certainly be asking them to review the situation before starting the marriage visa process. I only hope the boss had a very good New Year and is feeling benevolent to all mankind.

And thanks also to Maestro.

[elwood]

I would like to give a summary of the outcome of my return visit to Phibun.

I did in fact end up with applying for a marriage-based extension and of course had to go through the entire procedure as if it was my first ever application; we even had a visit to the house two days later from a couple from the Investigation Dept (charming, friendly and efficient people - no problems there).

As for the refusal of the retirement extension, I had 470,000 in Thailand and the balance coming from my UK pension; in this lady's eyes my pension income is merely being transferred to Thailand - to her that means I don't really have 800,000, I am merely robbing Peter to pay Paul! They obviously prefer to see the bulk of the 800,000 in a Thai bank. Perhaps if I had brought evidence of UK bank statements it would have been better, but by then I was ready to just get on with the marriage application and be done with the whole business.

It was suggested that next year, if having say 550-600,000 in a Thai bank for 3 months or so plus outside income, then the combo may well be accepted (or we'll have a different officer in charge?).

Have to mention that the staff were very helpful during the whole rigmarole of applying - even had the front desk girl and the rather intimidating lady thanking us for our patience and attitude - we Brits are such smoothies!

As a footnote, when the lady captain at the home interview asked why I had changed to marriage extension and I explained what had happened, she said that, with more people switching, perhaps some offices are taking closer looks at combo applications.

[ubonjoe]

Thanks for the post.

It seems that it all worked out in the end.

It still seems that they were just plain wrong in refusing your first application using the combo method.

[elwood]

Thanks for the post.

It seems that it all worked out in the end.

It still seems that they were just plain wrong in refusing your first application using the combo method.

Thanks Joe. If they actually changed the official rules regarding the combo method, at least we would know what to aim for; by allowing each immigration office to interpret as they see fit causes confusion - and anger at times!

Now I want to pass on an interesting comment made by the lady captain at the home interview after I mentioned having to provide so many forms and reams of copies for the application despite all the relevant marriage information being on my file for 16 years.

She said that the staff who have to ask, check, endorse and send documents on to higher authorities are also fed up with the process. They would like a simplified system whereby, for example, a holder of an extension could call in each year for a passport check (and maybe a visual inspection of such as marriage /bank proof?) and receive a renewal stamp in the passport. Apart from the awkwardness and repetitiveness of the present method, they also have the problem of where they can store all these documents!

I asked whether I could put this on to a website and she said OK, but to understand that this is merely staff at immigration offices having a whinge and hoping for a change and not a subject that has been raised by the higher-ups. Probably nothing will ever change, as I doubt whether the many jobsworths in head offices would agree to having their paperwork receipts lowered in case they lost their job. But at least it shows that the staff suffer too, not just we poor beleaguered expats!

[elwood]

If you are going for the extension based upon marriage I can help with Phibuns requirements.

You will only need two photos of the house (2 sets). Both are outside one with you and the wife with house number shown and one from the street.

Original and copy of Kor Ror 2 marriage registry you get from the Amphoe.

The rest are the normal 2 copies of marriage certificate, wife's house book and ID card plus copies of your passport showing all visas and entry/permit to stay stamps stamps and extensions.

Two copies of proof of income or bank balance.

Two TM7's.

Joe, I'd like to update you on their requirements for when you next apply - assuming that they don't change again!

All as you said regarding the usual gumph - Kor Ror 22, marriage, finance, passport, wife's details etc (in our case a notarised translation of the marriage certificate too).

However the two sets of photos comprised one of us outside the house (ignored the one we offered with the number on the gate, took the one immediately in front of the actual house), and one of us sitting inside.

Rental agreement in our case.

Map

My wife had to submit a letter explaining why we haven't had children in a 23 year marriage! Luckily we were advised of this by the front-desk girl when we were there a week or so earlier so she had it ready (she had warned us that simply saying "didn't want any" was not advisable, it paid to be creative - nice girl, even showed my wife an example).

Whilst waiting for them to check copies my wife was also asked to write a brief note giving my parents' names, and how we met and which countries we had lived in.

========================

Elwood

[Khunangkaro]

Elwood,

I am glad that you got your extension.

The Thai Wife extension usually takes an hour or so sitting with officer. Same every year. Also the interview with your wife (How long ago, where, when did u meet & marry, etc.) again and again.

I guess it must be a nightmare for officer too.

Did you go direct for this one or try again for retirement extension.

Did you bring a copy of the Police Order 777/2551 dated Nov 25, 2008 etc.?

Did you bring an Income Statement from your Embassy?

PO: "...It was suggested that next year, if having say 550-600,000 in a Thai bank for 3 months or so plus outside income, then the combo may well be accepted..."

IMHO This is absurd.

In fact they say you can apply for retirement extension with combined income and bank deposit. 600K is never regulated.

It looks like they running in circles trying to save face not willing to admit having made mistake.

ALWAYS ASK FOR CONFIRMATION IN WRITTEN REGULATIONS.

If you can't speak/read enough Thai you loose respect. Getting many smiles in common leads nowhere!

P.S.When I did combination 241,889.32บ. at bank + pension in €uro (confirmed by Dutch Embassy) added up little more than 800K was accepted.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Khunangkaro