Realestate Market

[BKK90210]

What do your think about the overall health of realestate market in the area……from Pattaya to all the way to BangSaray…and even to Rayong? And where is the trend going next, you think?

What are some positives and negatives about living in the area such as Pattaya, Jomtien, and BangSaray?

What do you see as the inventory ratio between new and existing homes?

Would you be able to find a bargain among the existing homes, or better to buy a new one? Or stay put with your cash?

How are prices in the area, do you think it’s overpriced because they’re selling to farangs? and over by how much?...2 times…3 times….or even 4 times?

I just look at the “2005 Cost of Constructions Index” provided by the construction building association of Thailand, and....

The average cost of building a home - is only between 8000 – 11500 B per sq. meter only.

Would you buy again in a subdivision/village and pay whatever maintenance fee they’re charging, or you would rather be buying somewhere else an individual plot on your own?

Lastly….how is the quality of those houses being built….do they use any standard building code when building?

Just need some additional knowledge before taking the plunge!

Our budget is around 10-12 mil baths

Thanks in advance

BKK

Edited February 19, 2006 by BKK90210

[ChiefBEM]

Bill_of_Laden_Costs_for_house_in_BKK_2004.pdf

What do your think about the overall health of realestate market in the area……from Pattaya to all the way to BangSaray…and even to Rayong? And where is the trend going next, you think?

What are some positives and negatives about living in the area such as Pattaya, Jomtien, and BangSaray?

What do you see as the inventory ratio between new and existing homes?

Would you be able to find a bargain among the existing homes, or better to buy a new one? Or stay put with your cash?

How are prices in the area, do you think it’s overpriced because they’re selling to farangs? and over by how much?...2 times…3 times….or even 4 times?

I just look at the “2005 Cost of Constructions Index” provided by the construction building association of Thailand, and....

The average cost of building a home - is only between 8000 – 11500 B per sq. meter only.

Would you buy again in a subdivision/village and pay whatever maintenance fee they’re charging, or you would rather be buying somewhere else an individual plot on your own?

Lastly….how is the quality of those houses being built….do they use any standard building code when building?

Just need some additional knowledge before taking the plunge!

Our budget is around 10-12 mil baths

Thanks in advance

BKK

The published 2004 Costs of Construction in the Bangkok Metropolitan Region, Vaulers Association of Thailand is attached.

I do not have the 2005 costs.

[Mobi]

......Lastly….how is the quality of those houses being built….do they use any standard building code when building?

Just need some additional knowledge before taking the plunge!

Our budget is around 10-12 mil baths

Thanks in advance

BKK

God that's lot of questions. I will give you the benfit of my experience - for what it's worth.

For 12 m Baht you can have a very nice house. I really think the best way to do it is to buy the land and then build on it. If you're not too fussy about being close to the sea, there is a lot of land for sale in nice areas. I bought near Lake Mabprachan and am very happy here. I paid too much for the land (nearly 1 rai) but it was filled and walled and already had sevices, so I'm not too bothered. It's easy to check land prices , either through the net or driving around and checking on land for sale signs. After I moved in, I heard about loads of land for sale from local villagers that isn't even advertised. That's how I know I paid too much.

Your price for construction is right in line with what I paid - 10k per sq meter for the main building areas, and lower rates for driveways etc. This was from a farang builder who engaged a Thai building contarctor and supervised the building. If you go my route, your biggest problem will be to find the right contractor - there's good and bad and many will rip you off. So, not easy to find. There are some good ones out there though - you have to go by reliable recommendation.

I don't believe there is any acceptable building code - or if there is, nobody follows it. Nearly all the Thai built houses are sub- standard, some apppalingly so. From what I have seen, it's only when a farang gets involved in the bbuilding stages (as with mine) you can get decent building standards - and not always then!

I wouldn't live in any of these moo bahns/villages/estates. I wouldn't trust them to provide the services etc, and at the right price. I'd much rather be master of my own destiny and have everything under my control. I have my own water and electricity meters and 2 large water storage tanks. Also, from what I've seen, most of these estates pack the houses in like sardines on very small plots of land and the are over-priced. There seems to be a glut of them on the market for obvious reasons.

My house took 9 months to build. The land area is 1300 square meters. The house (2 stories, 4 en suite bedrooms, western kitchen, Thai kitchen, huge covered terraces) is 550 sq. meters, and the pool annex (2 more bedrooms w bathroom) is 80 square mtrs. Pool with jaccuzi is 85 sq.mtrs. The whole plot is beautifully landscaped with grass, flower beds, trees and a large waterfall and pond by the pool. I could go on. Total cost, including VERY EXPENSIVE FIT OUT, FURNITURE ETC., was a little over 13 M.Baht. I am near a lovely village, five minutes from the lake and 15 mins from central Pattaya. If you're ineterested, PM me and come and have a look.

No doubt others will have different ideas/ opinions - but that is my story.

[hiro]

for what it maybe worth to you, here are a few facts.

I lived in a house (rented) in Bangsaray which had been newly built. around 100 sqm, 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, nicely walled in, own well with good strong water all tear round for one year at 6.000 Baht per month. The house was built by a Thai along with another 8 on the same Soi. The cost including the 500sqm ground was 1 Mill Baht. The owner put the place on the market at 2.5 Mill two month after I moved in. That would be the going rate in that area if he could sell to a Farang.

I have recently built a house in the sticks down south to my design also around 100 sqm at a cost of about 800.000 Baht. The better half owned the ground already. This house would set me back at least 3 Mill Baht if I were to try and buy it somewhere in Pattaya from an agent, but I could have it built for about the same price in Pattaya too.

By the way I did not get involved in the construction of the house, the negotiations with the builders, the buying of the materials etc. this was all done by my wife. I controlled what was going on by having pictures sent and the occasional input on what material to buy. The only thing that went wrong were the plugs being put in too high. To give you an idea there are more than 40 light sources in and around the house plus plugs all well done at a cost of 8.500 Baht. The infrared light sensor outside cost a few Mekong drinks extra though as he had never done one of those before.

If you want to ask any questions feel free to contact me.

[Rimmer]

Some very useful and informed stuff here. I wish I’d had the benefit of it before I learnt the hard expensive way.

Mr. Mobi has definitely hit the nail fair and square on the head. His findings are exactly the same as mine.

I live in what is touted as the most exclusive village in Pattaya and quite frankly it’s a pain. The place is run OK and looks nice but to get the maintenance people to do anything for you is impossible. Power keeps going off, every time it rains, no where else just here, because of all the temporary lines hanging off the houses and running across the roads in puddles of water. The main fuses blow at the transformer and bingo we got no power again. The telephones seem to work outside up to our distribution box, but when they pass the distribution box and come into the compound they stop working and the utility company will not come inside the village to fix them and the so called maintenance staff don’t care. So we got no telephone lines inside. In short stay outside villages.

Being on Jomtien beach weekends are impossible to get in or out of the area because of the traffic and if someone decides to crank up the microphones and mobile disco just outside the wall we get it all. Nahh stay out of town, well out of town.

By far and away the best plan is as Mr. Mobi says build! The costs you have already are still pretty accurate but materials are rising daily.

Building time on Mr. Mobi’s house seems a little long, they can do a 200 sq mtr house in 16 weeks now and the good thing is that over the time since I’ve been here the standard of workmanship has improved out of all recognition and with some contractors it is almost up to European standards.

I have 2 ½ rai down near Phoenix which is a work in progress, (if anyone cares some pics at) http://www.flickr.com/photos/banjopicker/sets/1811522/ I engaged an architect to produce a full set of drawings and specifications for all the steel work doors, windows, roof tiles and such. Every little piece is spec’d out and drawn in detail. The plans were submitted to City Hall and came back approved and with a building permit also a blue book and house number so I can get the power and make a building start.

I threw a wall around my land typically that costs 1700 baht a mtr for a 2mtr high wall. Then maybe you got some land fill costs at 800 baht a truck load.

I now think it is better idea to get the contractor to design and build rather than get a separate architect, some of these contractors have cad design programs and can trot out a super design in day or two which they know they can build for you.

City hall will come along and check that the house is being built as per the approved drawings.

I my case I have found that the land cost can be higher than the building cost if you want a view and peace and quite.

Decent land around Phoenix is about 1.5m a rai plus a wall then about 12 to 15k per sq. mtr to build. For 12 m you got a super place. For you budget you can buy inside Phoenix and that would cost maybe 3 to 5m a rai but what price in the future?

I like Marbachan a lot but chose to go south of Pattaya because the access to town is now so good, the highway is being widened and it’s only 10 minutes to Lotus.

If you got a couple of friends, buy 3 or 4 rai and split it, get your own transformer and guards and you got all the benefits of a village and non of the hassles.

We all out to meet up some place and swap notes! I’m sure that with our collective experience we could save BKK90210 a lot of money and grief.

[Chopper]

We all out to meet up some place and swap notes! I’m sure that with our collective experience we could save BKK90210 a lot of money and grief.

This has the makings of being an excellent and most informative thread.

Please check your PM's.

[Mobi]

Some very useful and informed stuff here. I wish I’d had the benefit of it before I learnt the hard expensive way.

.......If you got a couple of friends, buy 3 or 4 rai and split it, get your own transformer and guards and you got all the benefits of a village and non of the hassles.

We all out to meet up some place and swap notes! I’m sure that with our collective experience we could save BKK90210 a lot of money and grief.

Actually, the plot I bought was the second of 5 plots on a piece of land just under 4 Rai. The first house had already been built, so I could see the workmanship, and then I sat down with the farang builder and we designed my house, based on the first, but bigger and better!!. It took 9 months due to some problems with his contractor (surprise surprise) but I wasn't in a hurry as I had a 12 month lease on a house in Bkk. I agree it could have been built a lot quicker. The builder is now developing the back three lots - he has sold one, will live in the second and the third is still for sale if anyone is interested. They are a fair bit smaller than mine (mine is a veritable mansion), but still decent sized with 4 beds and outbuioldings.pool etc. Should be cheaper than mine. Yes, we have our own transformer with 3 phase power, I ran my own phone lines in, and as I said, I can control all that stuff and deal directly with the relevant authorities whenevevr we have a problem. Never had a water problem, but if I do, I'll drill a well. We also plan to have our own security cameras and guards for the 5 properties, as you suggested. It's only just over 10 mins drive to Lotus in North Pattaya, we have a local fresh food market within walking distance, Na Klua fresh food market is only 10 mins drive also. So I reckon I've got the best of all worlds. Sorry to keep going on, but I'm quite pleased with what I've achieved. (more by luck than judgement) Yes, lets get together by all means.

[CGW]

I would agree with what has been posted, for sure if you have the time and are willing to put the effort in worth building your own property on purchased land.

Pattaya remains a "buyers" market, be worth spending a day or two going round agents to see what they have on there books, it's not easy to sell property in Pattaya, some surprising bargains can be had, people have to sell to return home for health reasons etc.

There may well be something on the market that suits you, at the right price, saving the hassle that building invariably is.

Good Luck

[BKK90210]

I would like to thank you, ChiefBem…Mobi D’Ark…Hiro…Rimmer…Chopper…CGW

Just a short thank-you for the insights information and recommendation, and to let you all know how much I value your thoughts and advices

I sincerely hope that our retirement from many years of tensions will be a pleasant experience for both of us there. It was nice for all of you to take the time in sharing your thoughts. We would not have learned of the benefits and pitfalls in buying or building there in the area otherwise.

You all helped me a great deal with my plan and reducing any frustrating uncertainty I may have had in the future. I will always think all of you as a kind friend who took a real interest in helping other.

Once again I want to express my sincere gratitude for all your information.

Please feel free to let me know, if at any time in the future I can return the favor to you in the structural engineering field (under BKK ofcourse – coz my liability insurance under my real name doesn’t cover advices given in Thailand).

Kindest regards

BKK

[Humphrey Bear]

But do any of you have decent Western-style plumbing, ith isolation valves on all pipes?

I have just had to re-plumb another part of my (rented) house and re-silicone the main bathtub, because it was all Thai-style plumbing. (Drain down the whole system to change a washer / no hot water in the kitchen / so on)

[CGW]

But do any of you have decent Western-style plumbing, ith isolation valves on all pipes?

I have just had to re-plumb another part of my (rented) house and re-silicone the main bathtub, because it was all Thai-style plumbing. (Drain down the whole system to change a washer / no hot water in the kitchen / so on)

Yes! I had to do it myself though, I didn't wont to - but found it impossible to get anyone else to do it

Cheers

[BKK90210]

Yes, we’re definitely going toward building our own. With our backgrounds in structural engineering we’re no stranger to the construction arena, but more worrying toward the communication parts with the Thais.

I agree the lots in moobaan/villages are quite small and would like to have a bit more breathing space personally. In addition of being overpriced, I hate to pay for that mandatory maintenance fee that I may or may not get my money worth. I can always fence off my own property, build a small guard house and hire my own guard!

After several conversations with by better half and all your information above, it reconfirmed my original thoughts and plans to go solo. We’re currently gearing toward BangSaray area. Because it has this peaceful setting, stunning view with clean beach, only 15 min to Lotus-Jomtien, and with easy drive to Rayong (we love the fruit market there).

We still will be looking for that elusive seaview-lot though, since we got so use to having a seaview all these times and cannot live without it.

Last X’mas we spent 3 weeks driving back and forth from Jomtien – BangSaray and didn’t see anything we like, so we’re planning to go back again at the end of the year for more land searching.

Just a few more questions:

How difficult is it in finding the bilingual contractor who can understand the construction terms in English?

We only know the payment schedule during construction here in the US, but what about in the area there? Do they want more money upfront or whatever agreed upon?

What about the availability of construction materials ?...mostly locally or not?...or I have to go all the way to BKK for those interior fittings and finishings?

We’re planning to use the steel stud framing method, don’t like those hollow core blocks method too much. Have anyone experience using this method?

Lastly….what is by far the strongest wind gust speed you can remember in the area?

Being an engineer it’s hard to design a structure without some type of wind speed category…and always scare of one day we will get hit with the hurricane!

Thanks again

BKK

See?....how beautiful BangSaray beach is?

Edited February 20, 2006 by BKK90210

[Rimmer]

BangSaray is beautifull but alas no longer inexpensive. If you go much past there you will run into the military area where you can not buy anything.

2 years back a plot on that beach was 1m now you can add a zero to that one.

A lot of the contractors speak English now and do good work. There are also some European contractors and one very good Kiwi who runs one of the largest construction outfits in town.

Payment. Usuall 1m baht will get the team on site and started, then agreed stage payments. The Kiwi contractor will even email you weekly progress pictures if you are out of the country. Very nice.

I would say that most every kind of interior or exterior fiting is available.

I enjoy walking around HomePro which is in town next to Carefore but there are several HomeMart stores on the Highway and one in Ban Ampur as well as the new Kanyong store just past Lotus.

The guys here all tend to throw up a re enforced concrete frame either on pilings or feet and then fill it in with single or double blocks or those tiny little red bricks they like and lots of cement. More lately they use superblock which is larger and very light and has good insulation properties. The roof structure is usually welded steel.

Winds maybe 20 knots gusting 25 on the sea very rarely though. One year I remeber all the boats in Pattaya getting blown up on the road. I think it's probably the roof tiles that would be the week link in a structure, the popular brand is probably 'C Pack' and you can probably find them on the web somewhere.

[Mobi]

I would agree with everything Rimmer has told you - and he clearly knows more about the technical construction side than I do. I also think you may struggle to find your ideal plot in Bang Saray. I'm not plugging my neck of the woods, but as I said before - 12 mins to Lotus North Pattaya, and easy to get to the main highway for Bangkok and the rest of Thailand. My lady comes from Sa Kaeo, and its a very easy trip from where we are, and of course we're 5 mins from the Rayong highway.

I suggest you think carefully about using different construction methods to those the crews are used to- you may be heading for problems. Although Rimmer advises the contractors speak English, if you are going to manage the contractor directly I strongly recommend you to engage a good translator. They're not expensive and will save you all kinds of hassles and misunderstandings. I know a farang who built this way very sucessfully. My own builder, a farang, used his wife who speaks pretty good English to translate, and that worked pretty well.

I bought all my materials in Pattaya, except the wood for the floor which came from BKK. (mai sak - the best and bloody expensive). There is a good chopice of everything here - from tiles to furniture. I was told to go to Chieng Mai for my furniture, but I found some beautiful hand carved stuff here, that had all been made locally.

By far the most important decision you will make is the choice of contractor - be very careful.

Good luck

[CGW]

Some good advice in the above two posts, one thing I would like to add.

Roofs, as we know here they use a steel structure, the steel is like paper and the welding resembles birdshit, older houses invariably have problems with roofs as steel rusts out quickly, a good coat of paint would help?

A better solution in my opinion is to spray with foam which a few companies here specialise in, this not only insulates, water proofs and holds tiles on, it also affords protection to steel. (No I have no interest in these companies

Unfortunatley the price has gone up lately as "foam" is derived from oil, but still worth while budgeting for

Cheers

[icecubes]

What do your think about the overall health of realestate market in the area??from Pattaya to all the way to BangSaray?and even to Rayong? And where is the trend going next, you think?

What are some positives and negatives about living in the area such as Pattaya, Jomtien, and BangSaray?

I would not make any big investment right now in the pattaya area.

Wait to you get more baht to your Dollar or Pound, its all over priced allready

12 mil baht is a lot of dosh.

Have a nice day

[Rimmer]

Some good advice in the above two posts, one thing I would like to add.

Roofs, as we know here they use a steel structure, the steel is like paper and the welding resembles birdshit, older houses invariably have problems with roofs as steel rusts out quickly, a good coat of paint would help?

A better solution in my opinion is to spray with foam which a few companies here specialise in, this not only insulates, water proofs and holds tiles on, it also affords protection to steel. (No I have no interest in these companies

Unfortunatley the price has gone up lately as "foam" is derived from oil, but still worth while budgeting for

Cheers

Exactly spot on. I have foam spray in the roof and it's done me very well indeed. As you say it holds the tiles on and this is where I got shot in the foot.

I wanted the UBC people to run a cable to the other room and when the technician heard I had foam in the roof he literaly turned away and resumed eating his noodles saying he can not work on houses with foam in the roof because they can't get the tiles up.

Had to do the job myself in the end, no matter what they would not come out. Sad but true

[Gary A]

I have a friend who lives in Jomtien. He decided to build a house and spent a lot of time looking for a site that he liked. Several months ago he told me he found what he was looking for. He paid 800,000 baht per rai. He told me it was 15 kilometers south of Pattaya. I figured he found land near the beach. NOT SO! It is on the east side of Sukhumvit. He told me that he thinks it was a fair price. I don't know so I kept my opinion to myself. The property is located on a good road with electricity but no water. He has already put in a pond and drilled a well. I don't know what the well cost him but at 60 meters deep it must have been plenty.

If he paid a fair price for the land that means prices have about tripled since I was looking. I now live up country where things are much more reasonably priced.

[sattahip]

Thanks to all who have spent so much time making this such a great thread.

I am about to build and many of my questions/concerns have been raised here.

First as to land, I bought with a mate 2 blocks in the VIP Condominium in Ban Amphur. VIP's land runs from the Sukhumvit to the sea. The blocks are 130 TW/520 sq mtr each. The great thing is that they both will have town water, power and telephone but also that they are in the condo on its great access road plus owners enjoy full access to the beach, pool, gym, tennis courts etc. This costs 10 baht a tarang wah while unbuilt and 50 baht a TW per year when house is built. Only caveat is that house cannot be over 2 floors which is no problem for me.

The key considerations in choosing this land were direct beach access, sea views, location between gardens of upmarket condo, Sunset Heights, and VIP's own gardens. Transport is also good as the 1631 bus service which runs Sattahip/Chonburi now has 25+ busses running day and night and songteaws, White, run Sattahip/Naklua 24hours. This is important as visitors and staff have a cheap way to get to you easily.

The area around is quiet as land here is expensive and Sunset Heights as mentioned above and neighbouring estates now being markets are top of the market. Silver heritage 2 doors away is offering houses from 30 to 75 million!!

I am now working with an architect on a concept for the house. Figures mentioned above are way out of my league. I am thinking of a low-rise compond in Thai/Bali style around a modest pool. I like atrium style buildings. One structure will be my aerie with a master suite, entertaing areas next to the pool, another will be freestanding accommodation for my driver and his wife and a guest suite. A service block with kitchen, maid's quarters etc will intervene. Total about 180/200 sq mts.

I am hoping to get away with all this for Baht3.5 million or so. Am I crazy?

I would add I already own a place here which I will sell in due course and don't have to worry about furnishings/ appliances etc.

I would love to have comments and in particular any recommendations for contractors.

Again a great thread and thanks to all.

[Mobi]

I have a friend who lives in Jomtien. He decided to build a house and spent a lot of time looking for a site that he liked. Several months ago he told me he found what he was looking for. He paid 800,000 baht per rai. He told me it was 15 kilometers south of Pattaya. I figured he found land near the beach. NOT SO! It is on the east side of Sukhumvit. He told me that he thinks it was a fair price. I don't know so I kept my opinion to myself. The property is located on a good road with electricity but no water. He has already put in a pond and drilled a well. I don't know what the well cost him but at 60 meters deep it must have been plenty.

If he paid a fair price for the land that means prices have about tripled since I was looking. I now live up country where things are much more reasonably priced.

I doubt the 800K per rai was too much out of line. That's the going rate around here, where I live, (Lake Mabprachan) which is arguably in a slightly better location than your friend is on. Mind you, you can pay a hel_l of a lot more. which is what I did. You'd never get land near the beach for that price these days.

!!

.......I am hoping to get away with all this for Baht3.5 million or so. Am I crazy?

I would add I already own a place here which I will sell in due course and don't have to worry about furnishings/ appliances etc.

I would love to have comments and in particular any recommendations for contractors.

Again a great thread and thanks to all.

If you take the 10K per Sq Meter yardstick for construction of the buildings, and maybe half that rate for driveways etc, it will give you a rough idea of the building cost In fact once the drawings are finalised and the contractor appointed, it must be a fixed price job. In my case it didn't include the cost of materials for the fit- out (tiles, floors, kitchen, bathrooms etc) but it did include the labour to install everything.

Good luck

[CGW]

Some good advice in the above two posts, one thing I would like to add.

Roofs, as we know here they use a steel structure, the steel is like paper and the welding resembles birdshit, older houses invariably have problems with roofs as steel rusts out quickly, a good coat of paint would help?

A better solution in my opinion is to spray with foam which a few companies here specialise in, this not only insulates, water proofs and holds tiles on, it also affords protection to steel. (No I have no interest in these companies

Unfortunatley the price has gone up lately as "foam" is derived from oil, but still worth while budgeting for

Cheers

Exactly spot on. I have foam spray in the roof and it's done me very well indeed. As you say it holds the tiles on and this is where I got shot in the foot.

I wanted the UBC people to run a cable to the other room and when the technician heard I had foam in the roof he literaly turned away and resumed eating his noodles saying he can not work on houses with foam in the roof because they can't get the tiles up.

Had to do the job myself in the end, no matter what they would not come out. Sad but true

Consider yourself Blessed Sir, they ran my cable, through the wall, thru the bedroom, down the stairs etc etc I would certainly consider myself eligible for having the worse cable run in Pattaya

Cheers

[sattahip]

For Mobi d'Ark,

I have just seen the architect today and he suggests about Baht18,000 per sq mtr for the houses, B12,000 for maid';s qtrs and garage and B10,000 for the pool. I have seen the Institute of Valuers figures and think them low for Pattaya. Cheers

[opothai]

not long ago i was thinking jesus pattaya is way to expensive,

but as property around the world has gone ballistic, and given the amount of people taking early retirement in europe cashing in on thier new found wealth, coupled with the massive booming economy in china, the interest from the neavo rich russians, the turn in the economic fortunes of the japanese, the growing prosperity of india.

all of the above seem to have an interest in visiting thailand especially pattaya, you boys that have made the investment and taken your chances, i would congratulate you and feel that the investment you have made would be quite safe with only one way the prices will go in the future.

and to think in 2000 i went to see a condo in jomtien 2 bed room with ensuite, seperate sauna

beuatiful kitchen, marble floors, it looked like a filmstars pad, all for £42.000 but i bought a new car and put it off because i was a newbie to thailand and people told me it was toooo expensive.

[Noel]

not long ago i was thinking jesus pattaya is way to expensive,

but as property around the world has gone ballistic, and given the amount of people taking early retirement in europe cashing in on thier new found wealth, coupled with the massive booming economy in china, the interest from the neavo rich russians, the turn in the economic fortunes of the japanese, the growing prosperity of india.

all of the above seem to have an interest in visiting thailand especially pattaya, you boys that have made the investment and taken your chances, i would congratulate you and feel that the investment you have made would be quite safe with only one way the prices will go in the future.

and to think in 2000 i went to see a condo in jomtien 2 bed room with ensuite, seperate sauna

beuatiful kitchen, marble floors, it looked like a filmstars pad, all for £42.000 but i bought a new car and put it off because i was a newbie to thailand and people told me it was toooo expensive.

Yes, nobody 'rings a bell' to let you know if the market will go up or down in either the short or longer terms.

How strange it is that the most negatively vociferous about investing in Thailand often tend to be those whom have never taken a risk in their lives?

There again, pehaps they never had or never will have the means to do so.

At the end of the day, you take your chances based on your perceptions at the time.

That said, of course the fundamental point is to never risk more than you are prepared to lose.

[Mobi]

For Mobi d'Ark,

I have just seen the architect today and he suggests about Baht18,000 per sq mtr for the houses, B12,000 for maid';s qtrs and garage and B10,000 for the pool. I have seen the Institute of Valuers figures and think them low for Pattaya. Cheers

As I and the OP said earlier in this thread, the going rate would appear to be closer top 10k per sq mtr.(And I had a farang builder and I don't see him complaining aboaut his profit on the deal). Maybe you should shop around, or try to bargain him down, but there are other considerations, so don't throw out the baby with the bath water if you think you have found the right guy. (If the architect provided the institute's figures, I would be wary).

.....At the end of the day, you take your chances based on your perceptions at the time.

That said, of course the fundamental point is to never risk more than you are prepared to lose.

Absolutely. If it all turns to the proverbial... I will have lost a wonderful house, but life will go on and I won't have to leave Thailand. As it is I have a 4 bedroom mansion for less than it would cost to buy a 2 bed semi in some ghastly English suburban estate.

By the way, I think prices are only going to go one way - up.

[Rimmer]

For Mobi d'Ark,

I have just seen the architect today and he suggests about Baht18,000 per sq mtr for the houses, B12,000 for maid';s qtrs and garage and B10,000 for the pool. I have seen the Institute of Valuers figures and think them low for Pattaya. Cheers

Way too high.

Would suggest your architect and the institute of valuers is not very in touch with current costing.

The best fittings and air cons that you can buy come in around 15k a sq. mtr.

Quite OK finishing is around 12.5k a mtr.

A bare shell with no fittings/window/nothing comes in around 9k a mtr.

Correct as of last week!

[monty]

I think at the moment 800.000 Baht/rai around Mabprachan area is a very fair price. Actually, you're going to have to make a deal directly with the landowners themselves to get that price!

Most of them are hearing stories of Farangs having bought land at this and that price (way over 1 million/rai), so most of them are already adjusting their asking prices accordingly!

Mobi, do you ever get out for a drink? There's some places around the lake, Fisherman just got sold and reopened, we have Khun John, The Peacock, The Terrace, Manneken pis,...

Not really a need to drive all the way down to patters to get our beer fix

[Mobi]

I think at the moment 800.000 Baht/rai around Mabprachan area is a very fair price. Actually, you're going to have to make a deal directly with the landowners themselves to get that price!

Most of them are hearing stories of Farangs having bought land at this and that price (way over 1 million/rai), so most of them are already adjusting their asking prices accordingly!

Mobi, do you ever get out for a drink? There's some places around the lake, Fisherman just got sold and reopened, we have Khun John, The Peacock, The Terrace, Manneken pis,...

Not really a need to drive all the way down to patters to get our beer fix

The price I quoted was given to the wife by locals for land that isn't even shown as up for sale. You are quite right, the normal advertised rate is much higher. I paid through the roof, but it was walled, cleared and filled, with outside drainage and services. But it was still a con.

I know about the places you mention and have been to some of them. Trouble is I'm into my 4th dry week (hopefully forever) and I'm steering clear of places of temptation at the moment. Might see you there one day, when I'm up to it.

Not heard of the Mannekin - where's that?

[Digger]

I think at the moment 800.000 Baht/rai around Mabprachan area is a very fair price. Actually, you're going to have to make a deal directly with the landowners themselves to get that price!

Most of them are hearing stories of Farangs having bought land at this and that price (way over 1 million/rai), so most of them are already adjusting their asking prices accordingly!

Mobi, do you ever get out for a drink? There's some places around the lake, Fisherman just got sold and reopened, we have Khun John, The Peacock, The Terrace, Manneken pis,...

Not really a need to drive all the way down to patters to get our beer fix

The price I quoted was given to the wife by locals for land that isn't even shown as up for sale. You are quite right, the normal advertised rate is much higher. I paid through the roof, but it was walled, cleared and filled, with outside drainage and services. But it was still a con.

I know about the places you mention and have been to some of them. Trouble is I'm into my 4th dry week (hopefully forever) and I'm steering clear of places of temptation at the moment. Might see you there one day, when I'm up to it.

Not heard of the Mannekin - where's that?

I wouldn't agree you paid through the roof, unless you paid substantially more than equivalent to 2,000,000 a rai + when you purchased it. Costs of the infrastructure you have can easily mount up - assume a decent wall at 2,000 baht meter including rendering and paint could easily add 500,000 to a rai of land and large capacity drains dont come cheap either, not to mention the infill and services. Easy to spend another 1,000,000 just on these things and often overlooked when you look at the price of raw farmland versus a land price in for example a project. For sure the raw land + this expense is still cheaper, but you have to factor in time and convenience into the equation. For some its worthwile, for others they reckon they can go and spend up to a year of their time and think saving 20,000 baht means there ahead. Really depends on what else you can achieve/earn in the time to handle all the detail.

As an example, I still think its so funny how many people I have chatted to around the resevoir who have an understanding that splitting land zoned for agriculture and then building houses is a piece of cake in Pong district. Have yet to find many who have got their chanots for doing just that, but of course they dont like to admit that as it shows them up to be fools with their money.

[BKK90210]

About the land speculation...

Hmm…Much of the land in the area to all the way to BangSaray are underdeveloped or the developer just let it sit there waiting for the price to go up some more? These occur both in the city and its fringe. Did most developers or buyers buy it for future price appreciation or future use rather than for present use?

I’m trying to understand and justify the rapid rising in land price in the area, both in the city and its fringe, and don’t want to get caught in the down-draft cycle!....like the stock market crashed many moons ago!

Is it base on purely speculation?...one speculator passes on the higher price to another speculator? ...but base on what factors?...the new airport?

Does anybody know the vacancies rate in both existing and new business buildings or the selling rate in the new developments of moobaan/village?

Just wondering if the land is commanding such high price, in order for this price to sustain healthily – this means that the city must be growing at the rapid pace also. Sorry but I didn’t see this is the case happening because of so many vacant buildings're not being rented out....and seems to be a slow sale in many of new moobaan/villages? Are we waiting for the crash?

It’s very easy for something to gain the value from nothing, but once it’d achieved that, what other factors will help this new value to reach a new higher level? It must be something substantial of its importance.

It’s easier to go from low to high, but it’s harder to go from high to higher…unless you have the X-factors! ….what are they then?

Any thoughts or speculations?

Edited February 21, 2006 by BKK90210