Where Can I Get Devil's Claw In Thailand?

[clifric]

I recently suffered from bursitis on my elbow joint and apple cider vinegar drinks at night appear to have eased it a little. Having spoken to my sister, who is experienced in these matters, she tells me that Devil's Claw is a remedy for arthritic pain. I am trying to find a source in Thailand, preferably Hua Hin/Pranburi and would welcome ideas

Here is a list of other alleged benefits of the Devil's Claw:

- Stomach and intestinal diseases are eliminated in a matter of days

- Old age symptoms: through regular use the blood vessels are rendered elastic again

- Rejuvenation of the skin and increase of virility

- Blood pressure is normalized

- Liver, gall kidney, bladder diseases

- Colic relief

- Stones are discharged

- Brings relief in cases of: dropsy, sciatica, neuralgia, acne, varicose veins, eczema, overweight, thrombosis, lumbargo, heartburn, headaches, nicotine poisoning, remia,

allergies: hay fever, bronchial asthma.

[jrtmedic]

Forgive me for asking but is another name for this stuff "Snake oil" ?

[Sheryl]

It might as well be

Needless to say there is no evidence whatsoever for the claims made

[clifric]

Sorry I asked; I have it on good authority. Perhaps I should have known better than to pose the question on this forum and the standard of replies suggest that to be true.

[Soutpeel]

Sorry I asked; I have it on good authority. Perhaps I should have known better than to pose the question on this forum and the standard of replies suggest that to be true.

Well even in your OP...it does say " Alleged benefits" and the replies you are getting are from people who are actually in the medical business..

So seeing as you are questioning the standard of replies how about some links to recognised medical studies to support your claims ?

Edited December 31, 2012 by Soutpeel

[jrtmedic]

I am indeed sorry if my post offended you.

However, I am sure, if you examine the claims you say are made for the product you seek, that the probability is, that they are , indeed, bogus.

Acne through the alphabet to Virility curing Liver, gall(sic). kidney and bladder disease on the way !

I very humbly ask if what is claimed seems remotely possible even if you do "have it on good authority" !

The bursitis you are suffering can indeed be very painful. There are well established Medical treatments for your condition.

I would advise you seek the advise of a qualified medical practitioner who will suggest an effective treatment.

You may be surprised to find the cost of effective, proven, treatment to be less than the "cure" you seek.

[clifric]

Devil's claw is approved as a nonprescription medicine by the German Commission E, an expert panel of physicians and pharmacists who advise Germany's counterpart of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.
A new clinical study shows that a traditional African medicinal herb may reduce pain associated with osteoarthritis as effectively as some conventional drugs. In a randomized, double-blind, parallel group study conducted in France, the patients received either capsules containing the herb devil's claw or a pharmaceutical drug. Pain measurements of all patients indicated that those taking the herb and the drug experienced similar benefits. However, the study also showed that patients taking the herb experienced significantly fewer adverse side effects than those taking the drug.

[Sheryl]

Please cite your source for this information and for this referenced study.

[poanoi]

easily done with a google of a selected bit of text, i.e copy paste this part of it into google and press [return]

Devil's claw is approved as a nonprescription medicine by the German Commission E, an expert panel

then open following in new window:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Devil%27s+claw+is+approved+as+a+nonprescription+medicine+by+the+German+Commission+E%2C+an+expert+panel&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs

[jrtmedic]

From Wikipedia (not my favourite ref. but sometimes gives insight!)

The German Commission E Monographs are a therapeutic guide with 380 monographs evaluating the safety and efficacy of herbs for licensed medical prescribing in Germany.

The monographs were published between 1984 and 1994 in the Bundesanzeiger, They have not been updated since . The commission itself was formed in 1978, and no longer exists.

All of the monographs lack literature references.!! .

I think the OP needs to try harder and find more convincing evidence!

​However, let us remember that anyone has the right to believe anything they wish even if there is no evidence of efficacy!

[jrtmedic]

Just to add to the above

The German Commission E is not and never has been a counterpart of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. All drug approval within the EU is undertaken on a multi nation basis. The original monographs (translated) can be found here.

The original (translated) monographs can be found here----- http://cms.herbalgram.org/commissione/Monographs/Monograph0083.html

ALL the monographs have the following disclaimer (You have to look really well at the bottom of the page for very small print!)

The information on this site is intended for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for the advice of a qualified healthcare professional.

The American Botanical Council does not endorse or test products, nor does it verify the content or claims made, either implicit or explicit. ABC does not accept responsibility for the consequences of the use of this information or its most up-to-date accuracy. ABC is an independent, nonprofit, tax-exempt research and education organization under IRS section 501©(3).

Edited January 3, 2013 by jrtmedic

[jrtmedic]

poanoi

I am sure we are all grateful for your link! Close examination of the link reveals this !

Disclaimer / Legal Information

Information on this website is based on research from the internet, books, articles and studies and/or companies selling herbs online. Statements in this website have not necessarily been evaluated and should not be considered as medical advice. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any illness or disease. for diagnosis or treatment consult your physician.

Use herbs in moderation and watch for allergic reactions.

If you are taking any other medication, are suffering from a medical condition and/or are at all concerned about any of the advice or ingredients consult your doctor before taking the herbs.

If you are pregnant, breast feeding or have/had breast cancer do not take any of the herbs (as many affect hormone balance, uterine contractions and are estrogenic).

Remember that diet, exercise and relaxation are equally important to your health.

Not really so impressiv eh ?

[Tolley]

poanoi

I am sure we are all grateful for your link! Close examination of the link reveals this !

Disclaimer / Legal Information

Information on this website is based on research from the internet, books, articles and studies and/or companies selling herbs online. Statements in this website have not necessarily been evaluated and should not be considered as medical advice. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any illness or disease. for diagnosis or treatment consult your physician.

Use herbs in moderation and watch for allergic reactions.

If you are taking any other medication, are suffering from a medical condition and/or are at all concerned about any of the advice or ingredients consult your doctor before taking the herbs.

If you are pregnant, breast feeding or have/had breast cancer do not take any of the herbs (as many affect hormone balance, uterine contractions and are estrogenic).

Remember that diet, exercise and relaxation are equally important to your health.

Not really so impressiv eh ?

Everytime someone comes up with a herb for something you seem to get a bee in your bonnet about it.

You also rubbished milk thistle for liver when there was plenty of research suggesting it was very effective.

You were also rubbishing my claims about pasteurised milk despite many studies linking it to health problems.

You want to open your eyes and stop believing everything the established medical community peddles along with big pharmaceutical companies who incidentally are responsible for many many deaths even thou there is supposed to be stringent testing of drugs.

[Sheryl]

Please refrain from personal attacks.

Poanoi, I was specifically asking the poster to give a citation for the "evidence" quoted.

Thus far he has failed to cite an objective scientific source for his information (i.e. not claims from companies selling the product, or wikipedia summaries.).

My research turns up the following in a peer-reviewed jopurnal, which differs significantly from what the post stated:

Devil's Claw (Harpagophytum procumbens) as a treatment for osteoarthritis: a review of efficacy and safety.

J Altern Complement Med. 2006; 12(10):981-93 (ISSN: 1075-5535)

Brien S; Lewith GT; McGregor G

Complementary Medicine Research Unit, Primary Medical Care, University of Southampton, Aldermoor Health Centre, Southampton, Hampshire, United Kingdom. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Osteoarthritis (OA) is a highly prevalent musculoskeletal disorder. Conventional treatment (i.e., the use of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs-NSAIDs) is associated with

well-documented adverse effects. Devil's Claw (Harpagophytum procumbens) a traditional South African herbal remedy used for rheumatic conditions, may be a safer treatment option. To date,

14 clinical trials have assessed its efficacy/ effectiveness in OA. AIM: To address the two main questions of importance to clinicians: (1) Does Devil's Claw work for the treatment of OA,

and (2) Is it safe? METHODS: A review of the literature on Devil's Claw and OA from 1966 to 2006 was performed using multiple search databases, monographs, and citation tracking. Relevant

trials in all languages were identified and included. Both internal validity (i.e., adequacy of the dosage and period of treatment for this condition, reporting of randomization, rates of

of the outcome measures of the trials) were assessed. RESULTS: Fourteen studies were identified: eight observational studies; 2 comparator trials (1 open, the other randomized to assess clinical

effectiveness); and 4 double-blinded, placebo-controlled, randomized controlled trials to assess efficacy. Many of the published trials lacked certain important methodological quality criteria.

However, the data from the higher quality studies suggest that Devil's Claw appeared effective in the reduction of the main clinical symptom of pain. The assessment of safety is limited by the small

populations generally evaluated in the clinical studies. From the current data, Devil's Claw appears to be associated with minor risk (relative to NSAIDs), but further long-term assessment is required.

CONCLUSIONS: The methodological quality of the existing clinical trials is generally poor, and although they provide some support, there are a considerable number of methodologic caveats that make further

clinical investigations warranted. The clinical evidence to date cannot provide a definitive answer to the two questions posed: (1) Does it work? And (2) is it safe? A definitive high-quality trial that

addresses the necessary methodologic improvements noted is needed to answer these important clinical questions.

[jrtmedic]

Tolley Thank you for your delightful post.

I have never "rubbished " anything or anybody. The believers in magic potions are free to treat themselves with

whatever they have faith in.

However , I will continue to draw attention to the fact that very few (if any at all) of these lotions, potions, herbs and minerals have a scientific

basis for the claims that the supporters (and sellers!) like to highlight. Please don't EVEN mention "ZAPPERS" and other such devices which can be purchased. These

devises make the most ouragious claims for succesful treatment of some of the most serious disease processes humankind is challanged with.

I never fail to be impressed by by the disclaimers on the peddlers websites ----hidden away at the bottom of a page written in an almost unreadable typface.

See above posts for examples "cut and pasted" from actual websites and not edited by me -----but I have enlarged these statements to improve the readabity.

These disclaimers exist of course to enable "snake oil" salesmen avoide problems with regulatory bodies.

Unfortunatly many vulnerable people dont read/understand these disclaimers and are scammed out of their hard earnt cash.

In England at the moment ----a "believer" is attempting to secure her wish to treat a seriously ill child with "alternative" remedies".

A High Court Judge ruled against "alternatives" in favour of "Gold Standard , proven care for the child. It is reported that by delaying the childs treatment

the chances of a successful treatment outcome have been reduced from 80% to 67% Now despite the testimoney of acknowledged renowned world class experts

this woman is now attempting to appeal the High Court Judgement on the basis of "Human Rights" and because the Judge , in her opinion. failed to give her enough

time to research her options!

My thoughts about this case I admitt are un-publishable.

Edited January 3, 2013 by jrtmedic

[Tolley]

I dont even know what a zapper is but anyway thanks for alerting me.

I have provided plenty of scientific research with my claims.

If you are happy to ignore the benefits of many herbs that is your perogative.

As for research we all know in many cases that there will not be huge trials etc on herbs, vitamins etc because there is no money in it as you cant patent these herbs.

Nonetheless many people already know what works and what doesnt and have open minds on these things.

[jrtmedic]

I admit to being amazed that any well informed "alternative" medicine freak would be unaware of the ZAPPER!

With this wonderful device every malady which affects man(and maybe his dog! )can be be cured!

You really do not need things like herbs and all that other stuff , you will never. ever need to consult a Doctor if you own a ZAPPER!

Here is a small extract from the web site. You will note scientific and patented proof is offered!

"Blood electrification is patented for killing HIV. Here is scientific proof. This powerful blood-purifying therapy is created by

The Ultimate Zapper. See testimonials about HIV, cancer, malaria and Lyme under the category BLOOD in the Archive. And see Instruction #31."

Those of you not wishing to spend money on consulting those ignorant Doctors or who would prefer not to take "Big Pharma's" poison should go immediately to the

"ULTIMATE ZAPPER website ----http://zap.intergate......rgate.ca/ Just imagine --- all your ills cured with a few simple ZAPPINGS![

if you look very carefully you will find the disclaimer

You will note that even I have learnt to put this disclaimer nonsense in small and I hope unreadable type!

HAPPY ZAPPING!

Edited January 4, 2013 by jrtmedic

[Sheryl]

Posters are reminded of Health Forum specific rule #3 "...aggressive attempts to persuade other members to either adapt or abandon alternative vs. modern forms of treatment will not be permitted. Experience has shown that this invariably leads to arguments and flame fests that serve no useful purpose."

and also of rule #2 "....Posters should be aware that factual misstatements abound on the internet and, to a lesser extent, in printed media. In particular, broad claims to the effect that "X number of (doctors/scientists)" agree to something or that something has been "proven in X number of studies" without specific citations are often fictitious. If a poster chooses to repeat such information as fact, the burden of ensuring these citations are reliable rest with the poster, who should take the time to verify this."

Most of the posts in this thread violate one, or both of these rules.

Going back to what appears to have been the impetus for the thread, i.e. where to obtain this herb in Thailand, it is an African herb and I am not aware of any place in Thailand that one could obtain it, unless GNC has it.

Thailand has its own traditional herbal remedies -- hundreds of them -- and Thais who choose to use an "alternative" treatment would generally turn to one of those, hence the market for imported herbal treatments in Thailand is fairly limited.

The Thai herbal remedies, while widely available and in some cases supported by research, are unfortunately not very accessible for those who cannot read Thai.