23-Year-Old Briton Shot Dead At Countdown Party On Haad Rin Beach: Koh Phangan

[HaleySabai]

In Thailand, annual homicides by any means total

Data for 1995-2010 were collated from three online UNODC spreadsheets:

2010: 3,654

2009: 3,703

2008: 3,974

2007: 4,435

2006: 5,023

2005: 5,141

2004: 4,273

2003: 6,434

2002: 4,538

2001: 5,020

2000: 5,140

1999: 5,052

1998: 5,717

1997: 4,785

1996: 4,474

1995: 4,542

n the United States, annual homicides by any means total

2010: 14,159

2009: 15,241

2008: 16,272

2007: 16,929

2006: 17,030

2005: 16,740

2004: 16,148

2003: 16,528

2002: 16,229

2001: 16,037

2000: 15,586

1999: 12,658

1998: 14,276

1997: 18,208

1996: 19,645

1995: 21,606

[sawati]

RIP

Why the TV fans dont wait for more news about any incidente instead of automaticaly jumping the gun???

The victim was at the wrong place in the wrong moment.

[Mungo85]

So, for the second time in a week the wrong person (a bystander) was shot. If you're going to be such a coward as to settle disputes with firearms, at least learn how to use them.

[sausageandmash]

Sounds like you're defending this murdering lunatic. Although I agree it's best to keep a low profile and skim under the surface, the same thing would have happened if the 23 year-old was Thai. However, just because you live abroad, does not mean that any local can beat you up, take advantage of you or get you deported. You still have the right to stand up for yourself. I have avoided arguments with Thai men up until last month when I exploded at a Thai co-worker. He didn't get his gun and shoot me. We patched things up the next day and everything has been ok since.

Your attitude is the kind that makes foreigners believe they should live in fear like a bunch of saps. There is a middle ground, you know,

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

[ALFREDO]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

BS !

[HaleySabai]

Bound to be friction between these two very different cultural/racial groups, especially these days when anyone & everyone can easily travel far and wide. Cats & Dogs rarely get on well. It's six of one and half-dozen of another.

[ALFREDO]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

according to this tally its twice the amount of deaths so considering Thailand has 1/6th the population then its what 12 times higher rate of gun homicide.

Seems quite high but maybe thats what he was referencing.

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

-Nationmaster is regarding that STATS a complete BS !

[Neilly]

So it's confirmed indeed: really frightening to see that Thailand has the third place in the world! Really to be proud of... It doesn't surprise me neither that the army, when called in for kicking the red shirts out of the Rachaphrasong area in 2010 after two months of illegal occupation, used life ammunition knowing that Thailand has the number three position in the world in killings with fire-arms! Even though Abhisit and Suthep Thaugsuban have not been convinced as "murderers" yet and do not make up for the statistics, which would bring Thailand in the first position....

I think you missed the point somewhat...the thread is about some poor guy who got shot by a gang member firing indiscriminately at others...not your political point of view.

R.I.P fellow Brit

[oldsailor35]

In 7 years i have only felt to be in danger twice. Last year, on my Honda click i was about to turn into a soi when a large black 4x4 with tinted windows was coming out........on my side of the road, i just stopped and he put his window down and started to indicate that i had to move back for him. Stupidly i just stood my ground (never again) next thing he sticks his arm out pointing a gun at me. Within a split second i shot across his front and took off up his side of the soi. After a while i calmed down and decided to go to Maenam police stn and report it but low and behold there he was sitting with his mates chatting away......yes a plain clothes

"Cop". once again i took off like a bondi tram.

Recently , sitting in a bar with many expats a guy drove up on an exceptionally noisey chopper bike and started revving it, several were not happy and shouted for him to clear off my mate said that he was going out to tell him to go, looking at this guy who was obviously looking for trouble, i said to my mate, dont be a xxxxxx he is twice the size of you ! This guy stopped the bike and came in saying that i was calling him a xxxxxx and that he was going to xxxxxx well kill me. He was about 6ft 6ins obviously a body builder and me a 70 yr old 5ft 7 ins.

They eventually placated him and he left. He was an Englishman !

So believe me, its not all Thais who are looking for trouble ! And it can be extremely easy to get into trouble.

Edited January 1, 2013 by metisdead

[sausageandmash]

You have just shown with your comments how little you know. Your massive generalisations hold no water. I presume you have been here for less than a year.

Hear, hear .. we should know how to keep our heads down, it's not our country, we should show more respect, we should not argue with a Thai cos they could just kick us like a dog or shoot us dead anytime they feel like .. cos they know we are faranag and have no xxxxxxx rights here, every cop will try to cover up for fellow Thai .. so let's be quiet, learn the ropes and digest more shit or go back to "our country"

[stevende]

Well, I hope this gets well publicised in the UK. I think Thailand as a tourism destination needs some serious re-evaluation.

Are you saying that tourist should stop coming here because of it being dangerous? I strongly disagree, Thai people are very tolerant.

Tolerant yes, but mainly on the surface ... they just smile .... but what is going on in their hearts might be a different story ...

Still, good place to live, just never pick a fight with a Thai. Yesterday I saw a young Farang getting beaten up by at least 6 or 7 young Thai guys on beach road in front of a huge crowd. There wasn t much space or I am sure more Thais would have "helped" to sort the problem. Surely there were no cops to help.

[metisdead]

A snide comment on moderation has been removed.

[sausageandmash]

Probably because a lot of Western men jump into bed with the first girls that give them attention. The trend is changing. You see a lot more Western guys with girls that Thai typically men go for these days.

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

And they resent many of us, as we not only have some cash, but we also have the most beautiful women, who want little to do with them.

Are you kidding? Most foreign men take the women that Thai men don't want. Often dark-skinned with kids and over 30!

[gl555]

Sounds like you're defending this murdering lunatic. Although I agree it's best to keep a low profile and skim under the surface, the same thing would have happened if the 23 year-old was Thai. However, just because you live abroad, does not mean that any local can beat you up, take advantage of you or get you deported. You still have the right to stand up for yourself. I have avoided arguments with Thai men up until last month when I exploded at a Thai co-worker. He didn't get his gun and shoot me. We patched things up the next day and everything has been ok since.

Your attitude is the kind that makes foreigners believe they should live in fear like a bunch of saps. There is a middle ground, you know,

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

I've lived here for seven years. I've made friends and have contacts with all forms of Thai people. And I'm pretty sure many more like me who have stayed here long enough have someone to call(if he isn't shot dead first) if he gets into this kind of trouble. But if you're here as a tourist, or any other third world country for that matter, who do you turn to if you don't know anybody? The tourist police? Your embassy can only do this much for you.

The point of the matter is, you don't know who you're screwing with. You know your fellow co-worker but you don't know who the guy you're arguing with in let's say a nightclub. The fella may not shoot you and he may not be able to outfight you but that won't stop him from calling his friends on you. The police here aren't going to give a crap unless you know someone or die.

We don't have to live in fear here. But we must also not forget that unless we're some rich fella who golfs with somebody of status, we're just one of the many thousands of foreigners who live here.

[DavidMavec]

As awful as this news is it comes as no surprise. Haad Rin is a very dangerous place and the numerous crimes go on there are generally unreported by the media as not to stop the tourist baht. I'm actually surprised that this hasn't happened before. Drunk Thai youth cracking onto someones girlfriend no doubt and not being able to take the rejection. That place is a complete dump and all the police care about is framing tourists with drugs. Amazing Thailand indeed.

I was on that island for five months and I saw more drunk Brits trying to get into fights with Thais and other foreigners alike than I saw the type of behavior you describe. Sure there are lots of Thais who are out to make a quick baht and really really don't like to be disrespected but in my experience the foreigners are usually the ones who provoke. Of course I was not there in this situation and that is terrible that someone got shot, I am sorry about that and of course I don't know what happened. Full Moon Party and Haad Rin are indeed a bit on the dangerous side, that's part of the intrigue, ain't it now?

Edited January 1, 2013 by DavidMavec

[Baloo22]

Well, it made The Telegraph: "British tourist shot dead at New Year's Eve party in Thailand" The story includes a very appealing photo of the place!

[angsta]

Drunk Thai youth cracking onto someones girlfriend no doubt and not being able to take the rejection.

You were there I assume when you write things like this?

I have been going to FMP's since 1998 and have spent months on the island and in Haad Rin. The place is a shit hole plain and simple and the Thais who frequent these parties are not the nicest Thai people you will ever meet.

Sorry if it ruins your idealistic view of the world. My advice is to drink less buckets and you might see it for what it actually is.

[ALFREDO]

this may be the reference RIP. best to know the laws of the land

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount # 1 South Africa: 31,918

# 2 Colombia: 21,898

# 3 Thailand: 20,032

# 4 United States: 9,369

# 5 Philippines: 7,708

# 6 Mexico: 2,606

# 7 Slovakia: 2,356

# 8 El Salvador: 1,441

# 9 Zimbabwe: 598

# 10 Peru: 442

That is complete BS ! NATIONMASTER is an Outdated source and has even more "Outdated" people sitting there.

USA has 3,7 fire arm related death - excluding suicides, per 100.000 inhabitants so, 11.100 per year

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

Thailand has 3.300 Killings per year overall, now compare that with above NATIONMASTER.

http://en.wikipedia....l_homicide_rate

Please, NATIONMASTER is BS! At least with that above stats.

They just counted from every available source and unspecified number of years killings with firearms,

but from country to country not the same number of years!!!

Crazy!

Than somebody at NATIONMASTER divided that completely wrong numbers threw 100.000 inhabitants and a wrong stat involved!

NATIONMASTER, NO!!!

Edited January 1, 2013 by ALFREDO

[mikecwm]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

according to this tally its twice the amount of deaths so considering Thailand has 1/6th the population then its what 12 times higher rate of gun homicide.

Seems quite high but maybe thats what he was referencing.

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Thanks for the link to the graph, but it shows Mexico with 2606 murders for the year. I realize this graph just shows gun-related deaths, but I know that during the 7 years that President Calderon was in power they had over 60,000 drug gang related murders. Surely the majority was done by firearms. I have to doubt the reliability of these numbers. They make Mexico look safer than staying at my Mom's house.

What's your Mum's address? - I'd like to avoid that street.

My sympathies to the guys family.

[mikecwm]

Drunk Thai youth cracking onto someones girlfriend no doubt and not being able to take the rejection.

You were there I assume when you write things like this?

I have been going to FMP's since 1998 and have spent months on the island and in Haad Rin. The place is a shit hole plain and simple and the Thais who frequent these parties are not the nicest Thai people you will ever meet.

Sorry if it ruins your idealistic view of the world. My advice is to drink less buckets and you might see it for what it actually is.

And you keep going back because?

[freedom4life]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

Am I suppose to be scared?...

[ALFREDO]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

according to this tally its twice the amount of deaths so considering Thailand has 1/6th the population then its what 12 times higher rate of gun homicide.

Seems quite high but maybe thats what he was referencing.

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Funny, the wikipedia link (crime+firearms by country) doesn't list Thailand at all...

can someone say COVERUP??

First NATIONMASTER is BS !

Second there are a lot countries missing, not all countries make a difference killed with gun or knife, or in their stats. so no numbers!

[gl555]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

Am I suppose to be scared?...

It's a free world, you can be whatever you want to be.

[RedQualia]

Those gun death figures include the war that's going on down South that no one bothers reporting either.

In fact, those gun death figures at http://www.nationmas...-with-firearms. are taken from a 2002 UN crime survey, so are 11 years old.

There is also a "definition" at the end of the stats listed: "Total recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence."

Another interesting page on the site is from 2006, "Murders (most recent) by country." http://www.nationmas...-crime-murders. The footnote there reads "Number of convictions for intentional homicides in the given year." Strange that the list of countries there seems completely off the wall. Data there can be contrasted somewhat with the US homicide rate shown on http://www.cdc.gov/n...ts/homicide.htm, for example, where the homicide rate reported (16,799) exceeds all the countries listed on the nationmaster page cited here.

All of which is just to say that I no longer trust the data on the nationmaster website. There are alternate sources, though I cannot vouch for their accuracy. One such is http://en.wikipedia....l_homicide_rate, which states that the data is from a 2012 UNODC study. Read the notes at the top of the page. Still not clear to me what would constitute an "intentional homicide" here. The number reported for the USA is 12,996, which is almost 4,000 less that what was reported by the CDC.

Relevant here only because nationmaster stats are being referred to. Which is to say, relevant.

(I see now (after reading three more pages of comments) that the matter of the accuracy of nationmaster has already been discussed. Moderator - please feel free to delete this comment. I would, but apparently cannot.)

Edited January 1, 2013 by RedQualia

[ALFREDO]

this may be the reference RIP. best to know the laws of the land

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount # 1 South Africa: 31,918

# 2 Colombia: 21,898

# 3 Thailand: 20,032

# 4 United States: 9,369

# 5 Philippines: 7,708

# 6 Mexico: 2,606

# 7 Slovakia: 2,356

# 8 El Salvador: 1,441

# 9 Zimbabwe: 598

# 10 Peru: 442

This data is obviously wrong. The source provided for the number of gun homicides on this site in Thailand is a Wikipedia page. Wikipedia shows its source to be a UN body, collecting data on gun homicides; http://www.unodc.org...by_firearms.xls

Funny enough, Thailand is not in the list. Thailand is in the list on the same UN body for overall murder rate; http://www.unodc.org...tistics2012.xls

Thailand a number of murders has been dropping over the years, 2011 figures showing a total of 3307.

Thailand's murder rate per capita is slightly lower than that of the US. Still pretty high, but not nearly as extreme as the nation master site makes it out to be; 70 gun murders per day?! And people blindly believe it. Some of you should work for the nation or Bangkok post. They also never check sources.

Other data from nation master can be traced back to sources from the early nineties. Utter nonsense page, is all I can say. Somewhere along the line of copying data, a decimal point got misplaced, and nobody checked and corrected.

The "Best" Post in this thread so far,

Bravo -Gulfsailor-!

[Boater]

Being covered in a few uk papers http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255671/British-tourist-22-shot-dead-crossfire-Thai-New-Years-Eve-beach-party.html

[george and dragon]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/9774214/British-tourist-shot-dead-at-New-Years-Eve-party-in-Thailand.html

[theblether]

It appears that the Thaivisa members appetite for jumping to conclusions is alive and well on this first day of 2013.

.

Edited January 1, 2013 by theblether

[metisdead]

Some overly derogatory posts and replies have been removed,

[notime]

You have just shown with your comments how little you know. Your massive generalisations hold no water. I presume you have been here for less than a year.

Hear, hear .. we should know how to keep our heads down, it's not our country, we should show more respect, we should not argue with a Thai cos they could just kick us like a dog or shoot us dead anytime they feel like .. cos they know we are faranag and have no xxxxxxx rights here, every cop will try to cover up for fellow Thai .. so let's be quiet, learn the ropes and digest more shit or go back to "our country"

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean that you have to flame them. Why is it that my "massive generalisations hold no water"? If you think differently perhaps try to substantiate instead of offering empty talk. And your presumption is also completely wrong. I've been visiting here since 1981, living and doing business in Thailand for 7 years. I've been thorough a lot here including assaults, many counts of theft, court cases, extortion, betrayals, life threats .. all things that didn't happened to me in my "previous life" of 24 years in another "adopted country". I'm claiming here that Thai xenophobia and a system under which foreigners have little rights contribute towards many instances of violence against them. It makes it just too easy to pull a knife or gun on a foreigner. It results in tragic cases like the one above and it often goes unpunished. And we, foreigners, are partly to blame by mostly sticking head in the sand and accepting this situation in the name of politically correct "respect for other culture". If the African Americans thought and behaved like that they would still be doing cotton fields today including Mr. Obama. "As long as I'm still alive I don't care for some young Brit. It was probably his own fault he got shot dead". But Sir, it may be YOU next time.