23-Year-Old Briton Shot Dead At Countdown Party On Haad Rin Beach: Koh Phangan

[lavender19]

Several people have noted that when in another country it's not good to make trouble with the locals. True, however, there is a difference with making trouble with the locals and defending yourself against aggression and/or outright abuse. We don't know the full details of the story but from the sounds of it, it seems that some Thais made problems with the young man, he responded, and then a Thai shot him.

So are we who visit LOS simply supposed to take abuse or is there a point at which we should stand up for ourselves and not accept assaults and illegal actions by locals? Could we say the same thing to Thais when they visit our countries? I don't think anyone would. In fact, I'm willing to bet that all of those who are quick to blame the young Brit here would be the first to say that Thais should respond to abuse when abroad.

The real issue here is why is it that Thais believe they have the right to assault foreigners. I think a big part of it is the idea perpetuated by the Thai government and media that foreigners are responsible for all bad things while Thais never do anything wrong. Thais are quick to point to the foreigners at Cowboy and Nana as proof that they only bring bad things to the country, but they are quick to change the subject when you point out that Thais not only work their but own the bars/clubs and that the government is the one that builds these 'entertainment' zones to attract foreigners in the first place.

When Thais assault a foreigner locals and police are predisposed to think that the foreigner was responsible, bad, and deserving of happened. No matter if they were mugged or shot down after defending themselves. It's like blaming the victim of a home invasion for having a home filled with nice things.

What Thailand needs is a healthy dose of bad publicity regarding these events which largely go unpublished outside of the country. Let the Land of Smiles lose some face and get a bad image. If Thais start to accept the fact that maybe -- just maybe -- lots of bad stuff does indeed originate here, it might change some things.

Always helps if you use the brain that god gave you and stay away from dangerous situations no matter where you go. I've been there 11 times and lived there for a few years and never was in a spot of trouble.

Certain places in Thailand have a reputation and if you visit them then you are going to be at risk. Where the Brit died is one such area.

I have lived here for many years now and have always kept out of trouble but tell me all you wannabe Thais who visit here and never ever have anything go wrong.

What happens ( as did to me) you are driving back from a nice afternoon on the beach when a yabaed up taxi driver overtakes you on a blind bend nearly wipes out abike swerves in front of me and nearly takes me off the road.

I did what you naturally do in any civerlised country I instinctivly sounded my horn to stop him hitting my truck.

What did he do he pulled up in front of me jumped out pulled open my door and started punching me in the face.

Later that night I heard from friends he and 5 scum thugs were going around the local bars warning them if they saw me in there they would kill me and burn the bar down.

So tell me me what are you supposed to do?Tell the police thats a joke the taxi mafai rule the police.

Your average Thai male are immature children in an adult body who think and do get away with most things as they are bought up like little spoilt brats.

Best give them a wide berth and have nothing at all to do with them.

[uptheos]

Well, I hope this gets well publicised in the UK. I think Thailand as a tourism destination needs some serious re-evaluation.

http://www.dailymail...each-party.html

That 'beach' looks like some 3rd world garbage tip!

Edited January 2, 2013 by uptheos

[timewilltell]

You have just shown with your comments how little you know. Your massive generalisations hold no water. I presume you have been here for less than a year.

Hear, hear .. we should know how to keep our heads down, it's not our country, we should show more respect, we should not argue with a Thai cos they could just kick us like a dog or shoot us dead anytime they feel like .. cos they know we are faranag and have no xxxxxxx rights here, every cop will try to cover up for fellow Thai .. so let's be quiet, learn the ropes and digest more shit or go back to "our country"

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean that you have to flame them. Why is it that my "massive generalisations hold no water"? If you think differently perhaps try to substantiate instead of offering empty talk. And your presumption is also completely wrong. I've been visiting here since 1981, living and doing business in Thailand for 7 years. I've been thorough a lot here including assaults, many counts of theft, court cases, extortion, betrayals, life threats .. all things that didn't happened to me in my "previous life" of 24 years in another "adopted country". I'm claiming here that Thai xenophobia and a system under which foreigners have little rights contribute towards many instances of violence against them. It makes it just too easy to pull a knife or gun on a foreigner. It results in tragic cases like the one above and it often goes unpunished. And we, foreigners, are partly to blame by mostly sticking head in the sand and accepting this situation in the name of politically correct "respect for other culture". If the African Americans thought and behaved like that they would still be doing cotton fields today including Mr. Obama. "As long as I'm still alive I don't care for some young Brit. It was probably his own fault he got shot dead". But Sir, it may be YOU next time.

Nice to see you read the latest news and updates before putting forward silly and insensitive comments. The news reports indicate he was hit by a stray bullet fired during a dispute between rival Thai gangs. And, you think "it was probably his own fault he got shot dead". Well done Sherlock!

Whether he was shot dead because of an altercation or shot dead because two Thai gangs are fighting does not make any difference to the fact that someone was murdered in a public place. Since there are many foreigners killed here, many more hugely scammed out of life savings and livelihoods, even more scammed by organised crime and the fact that the authorities from Government to Police are all trying to cover it up rather than dealing with it - makes Thailand a very dangerous place to be.

If people are running around killing others with impunity because Thai society and authority don't as a whole give a darn, THAT is a problem. Whether the gunmen intended to kill the foreigner or someone else - he still had a gun and was shooting at people. I am sure he did not aim at the sky!

Thailand needs to clear the smoke it blows everywhere to pretend it is something it is not and show that it is a sad country in need of direction for it is surely going in the wrong direction at the moment and making no progress in law and order, violence and corruption is out of control and assisted by the justice system.

[spacedcowboy]

Gun crimes everywhere. A friend of mine went into our local pub in the Uk and was talking about the amount of rodents he had breeding in his shed and gardens someone suggested shooting them, to which he stated a bit cruelly (IMHO) 'sounds like it could be a fun thing to do at the weekend' well anyway more drinking ensued and the request for .22 type pellet gun was put out.

Over the course of the following week nearly every time he visited the pub, there was a different shady character lurking about waiting to sell him something over than a (pee shooter) He said he was even offered a semi automatic weapon! to do the job, very telling of our times. Just goes to show you,

Also I was talking to a Thai friend recently about guns etc on Samui, which then led to some more Thai people joining in the conversation, quite frightening the amount of un-reported Thai on Thai gun crime taking place they had witnessed 1st hand. Now apparently, the last year or so, different Farang camps also getting involved.

[angsta]

Drunk Thai youth cracking onto someones girlfriend no doubt and not being able to take the rejection.

You were there I assume when you write things like this?

I have been going to FMP's since 1998 and have spent months on the island and in Haad Rin. The place is a shit hole plain and simple and the Thais who frequent these parties are not the nicest Thai people you will ever meet.

Sorry if it ruins your idealistic view of the world. My advice is to drink less buckets and you might see it for what it actually is.

And you keep going back because?

I prefer the much quieter parts of the island now but i've been to the FMP's and the after parties at the back yard bar on the hill. I've seen Thai youth try and drag sleeping girls down the beach on more than one occasion. I've seen them go through peoples pockets and i've seen them pull guns. Like I said, it isn't safe and this should be highlighted because people do not know.

[HUAHIN62]

BP reported that a fight broke out between two Thai groups and a single shot was fired from a homemade gun. the suspect has been arrested. Illigal guns are too easily available and should be erradicated. RIP

[HeijoshinCool]

I think it`s the same everywhere, not only in Thailand.

The world has become a dangerous place, many screwballs out there.

Best to keep the head down and avoid disputes if possible. Read the situation and weight up the odds before jumping in.

Sometimes it takes more guts to walk away from an argument, rather than facing the situation head on.

Yup, if you don't try to save face, maybe you'll save your face.

[NeverSure]

BP reported that a fight broke out between two Thai groups and a single shot was fired from a homemade gun. the suspect has been arrested. Illigal guns are too easily available and should be erradicated. RIP

Drunk driving is illegal. Drugs are illegal. Stealing is illegal. Scams are illegal. Should all be eradicated. Couldn't agree more.

Got a plan?

[cup-O-coffee]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

Agreed; with the caveat of adding, "It's their country to F.U.B.A.R., and they do it better than anyone else." Be it man or beast, they are all one big happy dysfunctional family.

Beyond that, a 23 year old drunken Brit and a Thai youth of unknown age make a bad and disastrous mix.

Foreigners be warned; Drinking with the Natives in venues established for the sole purpose of foreigners drinking with the natives is as safe as you'll find anywhere in the world. However, you step outside those venues established for the sole purpose of foreigners drinking with the natives, and instead choose foolishly to become mentally impaired in the company or around the natives - on their turf - then you will end up either poorer and wiser, accursed and wiser, beaten and wiser, in hospital and wiser, or plainly and simply dead. You have been warned!

[SteeleJoe]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

Agreed; with the caveat of adding, "It's their country to F.U.B.A.R., and they do it better than anyone else." Be it man or beast, they are all one big happy dysfunctional family.

Beyond that, a 23 year old drunken Brit and a Thai youth of unknown age make a bad and disastrous mix.

Foreigners be warned; Drinking with the Natives in venues established for the sole purpose of foreigners drinking with the natives is as safe as you'll find anywhere in the world. However, you step outside those venues established for the sole purpose of foreigners drinking with the natives, and instead choose foolishly to become mentally impaired in the company or around the natives - on their turf - then you will end up either poorer and wiser, accursed and wiser, beaten and wiser, in hospital and wiser, or plainly and simply dead. You have been warned!

Thanks for the (not entirely unwarranted) warning but I Did it many, many times (mostly a long time ago) and somehow generally walked away without any of those results.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[NeverSure]

If this thread was about a different type of criminal - a drunk driver who mis-aimed his car and killed a farang in a drunken or drugged accident..

Would it have this many rapid fire posts?

I didn't think so.

[Markaew]

I think it's time these incidents were more widely published. Thailand is a major tourist destination and almost no-one knows how dangerous it is. Perhaps if evidence was discovered that points to a cover-up by Thai authorities, the resultant lawsuits against foreign representatives of Thai tourism companies would change their minds.

Excellent point, but publishing is muted and in my opinion there has been a huge increase in violence just in the last year to 2 years where virtually none of it is being seen outside of Thailand. Also in my opinion, this violence is a reflection of how the Thai attitudes have changed toward foreigners. Being around drunk Thais doesn't help.

1) Thailand has always been violent.

2) This violence - like the vast majority in Thailand - was not directed toward a foriegner.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Assuming you are a foreigner, it amazes me how people make excuses for Thailand no matter the extent of evidence proving the subject. If you are Thai then I expect this kind of comment from you. Yes, if you take Thailand as a whole, the amount of crime toward foreigners may appear negligible. And using your reference you could kill off hundreds more foreigners and claim, as a whole, there is not that much crime directed at foreigners because of the total amount of crime in Thailand. But if you use previous numbers and use that information relative to now, a very good arguement can be made for an increase in crime against foreigners. And as a foreigner and you are paying attention, you are noticing the changes.

[evadgib]

When is the British consulate and the ambassador Mark Kent going to do their jobs and warn the Uk citizens about the danger and lawlessness of places such as Phangan.and if they dont know they shouldnt be holding such responsible positions.

http://ukinthailand....s/travel-advice

Safety and Security - Crime

Seven British nationals have been murdered in Thailand since January 2009.

Western tourists have been victims of vicious unprovoked attacks by gangs in Koh Phangan. These attacks are particularly common around the time of the Full Moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars in Haad Rin. Exercise caution when walking in this area at any time, especially after dark.

Violent assaults and robberies have been reported in Chaweng, Koh Samui. Attacks have also occurred in other tourist districts in Thailand frequented by western tourists including Chiang Mai. Care should be taken in such areas, especially at night.

.

Edited January 2, 2013 by evadgib

[barefoot1988]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

Agreed; with the caveat of adding, "It's their country to F.U.B.A.R., and they do it better than anyone else." Be it man or beast, they are all one big happy dysfunctional family.

Beyond that, a 23 year old drunken Brit and a Thai youth of unknown age make a bad and disastrous mix.

Foreigners be warned; Drinking with the Natives in venues established for the sole purpose of foreigners drinking with the natives is as safe as you'll find anywhere in the world. However, you step outside those venues established for the sole purpose of foreigners drinking with the natives, and instead choose foolishly to become mentally impaired in the company or around the natives - on their turf - then you will end up either poorer and wiser, accursed and wiser, beaten and wiser, in hospital and wiser, or plainly and simply dead. You have been warned!

<deleted>?? why are misleading comments like these appearing? the briton was simply a innocent who got shot by a stray bullet between 2 thai groups.

[uptheos]

the briton was simply a innocent who got shot by a stray bullet between 2 thai groups.

Seems so

A young British holidaymaker was killed by a stray bullet at a New Year’s beach party in a popular Thai tourist destination.

City trader Stephen Ashton, 22, was dancing on the sand when he was caught in crossfire following a fight between two groups of Thai men.

http://www.dailymail...each-party.html

Edited January 2, 2013 by uptheos

[bitterbatter]

Let me set the record straight because there seems to be a lot of false assumptions. I was there. I saw everything while waiting for a boat taxi.We were on the beach, not in the bar as reported. 2 thai guys started fighting and running from nowhere, each with a about three or four friends around them. The one Thai was pushed to the ground. Next thing I knew, the guy on the ground pulled out a gun tucked in the front of his pants. I ran. Less then 30 seconds later I heard what I knew was a single gunshot, not multiple shots as reported.. I ran back and was shocked to find a young farang man in a pool of blood. A doctor who was nearby began administering CPR and medics showed within a couple of short minutes. But the poor young man was very white and not breathing. The girlfriend was sobbing as she tried to stop the bleeding. I wasn't sure if the bullet hit the heart or just shoulder. I didn't find out until later when I went to the police station to tell them what I saw, that the bullet had hit the heart. This was not someone involved with the altercation. HIs girlfriend told me that they were just standing nearby, when the stray bullet hit him. They probably were wrestling over the gun. The police told me the the two boys were in gangs and in jail. I hate guns, always have, but this really was an eyeopener. I will never forget this, and it really sucked. Part of me wished I had training so my reaction would have been to disarm the little bastard. I almost felt guilty because I probably could have stopped this. But I could have been hurt too, so I probably did the smart thing but it still sucked.

Edited January 2, 2013 by bitterbatter

[Lancelot]

In Thailand, annual homicides by any means total

Data for 1995-2010 were collated from three online UNODC spreadsheets:

2010: 3,654

2009: 3,703

2008: 3,974

2007: 4,435

2006: 5,023

2005: 5,141

2004: 4,273

2003: 6,434

2002: 4,538

2001: 5,020

2000: 5,140

1999: 5,052

1998: 5,717

1997: 4,785

1996: 4,474

1995: 4,542

n the United States, annual homicides by any means total

2010: 14,159

2009: 15,241

2008: 16,272

2007: 16,929

2006: 17,030

2005: 16,740

2004: 16,148

2003: 16,528

2002: 16,229

2001: 16,037

2000: 15,586

1999: 12,658

1998: 14,276

1997: 18,208

1996: 19,645

1995: 21,606

Thai population around 70 million; US population around 330 million. So a conservative factor of 4 times the Thai stats roughly puts their homicide rate on par with the US.

One interesting thing is that the homicide rate appears to be declining. Of course even one murder is too much...

[edwardandtubs]

Let me set the record straight because there seems to be a lot of false assumptions. I was there. I saw everything while waiting for a boat taxi.We were on the beach, not in the bar as reported. 2 thai guys started fighting and running from nowhere, each with a about three or four friends around them. The one Thai was pushed to the ground. Next thing I knew, the guy on the ground pulled out a gun tucked in the front of his pants. I ran. Less then 30 seconds later I heard what I knew was a single gunshot, not multiple shots as reported.. I ran back and was shocked to find a young farang man in a pool of blood. A doctor who was nearby began administering CPR and medics showed within a couple of short minutes. But the poor young man was very white and not breathing. The girlfriend was sobbing as she tried to stop the bleeding. I wasn't sure if the bullet hit the heart or just shoulder. I didn't find out until later when I went to the police station to tell them what I saw, that the bullet had hit the heart. This was not someone involved with the altercation. HIs girlfriend told me that they were just standing nearby, when the stray bullet hit him. They probably were wrestling over the gun. The police told me the the two boys were in gangs and in jail. I hate guns, always have, but this really was an eyeopener. I will never forget this, and it really sucked. Part of me wished I had training so my reaction would have been to disarm the little bastard. I almost felt guilty because I probably could have stopped this. But I could have been hurt too, so I probably did the smart thing but it still sucked.

It doesn't matter how many witnesses report the same thing, we're still going to get the usual responses from the bizarre brigade of self-righteous, self-hating thaivisa posters who can't resist popping up in every thread where a foreigner dies and bleating "It must be his fault", "He must have done something to provoke it", "This is their country, we must keep our heads down" and similar drivel.

[MILT]

Well, I hope this gets well publicised in the UK. I think Thailand as a tourism destination needs some serious re-evaluation.

It's quite rare for tourists to get murdered in Thailand. Read the stats. Almost all tourists have a great time and don't have any trouble at all. These incidents are very sad, but don't try to make it into something it's not. Most tourists either return or want to return because they had such a great time. Tourists get killed all over the world, and people also get killed staying at home. Those are the facts.

Arrrrrrgh! ye be tellin the truth! I'd be bettin me life on old Davy Jones locker arrrrrgh!

RIP

Edited January 2, 2013 by sbk
totally off topic content removed. This is Thailand, thanks

[HeijoshinCool]

Well, if the statistics are even remotely accurate, and my understanding of the strictness of gun control*** in Thailand is correct, it sort of blows the rabid claims that more laws will stop gun violence.

How many of these types of shooters care what the law says? Here or in the United States?

None.

Ahh, so take away the guns?

Take away the guns, only scum like this punk will have guns.

Under Thai law, it is mandatory for all individuals to obtain authorization prior to the possession, manufacturing, using, selling, purchase, ordering, and importation of firearms. Possession of ammunition for use with a gun other than one which you have obtained a license for owning and/or using is prohibited. You are not allowed to bring a gun with you into a city, neighborhood, or public areas without a license for carrying one on you. Exceptions do exist for emergencies depending on the situation, and for government officials or law

enforcement bodies of certain types.

SOURCE: http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/thailand-gun-law.html

[NeverSure]

In Thailand, annual homicides by any means total

Data for 1995-2010 were collated from three online UNODC spreadsheets:

2010: 3,654

2009: 3,703

2008: 3,974

2007: 4,435

2006: 5,023

2005: 5,141

2004: 4,273

2003: 6,434

2002: 4,538

2001: 5,020

2000: 5,140

1999: 5,052

1998: 5,717

1997: 4,785

1996: 4,474

1995: 4,542

n the United States, annual homicides by any means total

2010: 14,159

2009: 15,241

2008: 16,272

2007: 16,929

2006: 17,030

2005: 16,740

2004: 16,148

2003: 16,528

2002: 16,229

2001: 16,037

2000: 15,586

1999: 12,658

1998: 14,276

1997: 18,208

1996: 19,645

1995: 21,606

Thai population around 70 million; US population around 330 million. So a conservative factor of 4 times the Thai stats roughly puts their homicide rate on par with the US.

One interesting thing is that the homicide rate appears to be declining. Of course even one murder is too much...

Declining. Those charts don't account for population increases. The rate in the US has dropped by almost half per capita in the past twenty years, while sales of guns and ammo have skyrocketed.

Link

I can't find any reliable figures for Thailand, especially since there are so many people jumping off balconies or drowning, LOL. At least in the West the figures are honest and crimes are actually investigated and given a name such as homicide. Seriously. How would one ever get a real number for Thailand.

[SteeleJoe]

Let me set the record straight because there seems to be a lot of false assumptions. I was there. I saw everything while waiting for a boat taxi.We were on the beach, not in the bar as reported. 2 thai guys started fighting and running from nowhere, each with a about three or four friends around them. The one Thai was pushed to the ground. Next thing I knew, the guy on the ground pulled out a gun tucked in the front of his pants. I ran. Less then 30 seconds later I heard what I knew was a single gunshot, not multiple shots as reported.. I ran back and was shocked to find a young farang man in a pool of blood. A doctor who was nearby began administering CPR and medics showed within a couple of short minutes. But the poor young man was very white and not breathing. The girlfriend was sobbing as she tried to stop the bleeding. I wasn't sure if the bullet hit the heart or just shoulder. I didn't find out until later when I went to the police station to tell them what I saw, that the bullet had hit the heart. This was not someone involved with the altercation. HIs girlfriend told me that they were just standing nearby, when the stray bullet hit him. They probably were wrestling over the gun. The police told me the the two boys were in gangs and in jail. I hate guns, always have, but this really was an eyeopener. I will never forget this, and it really sucked. Part of me wished I had training so my reaction would have been to disarm the little bastard. I almost felt guilty because I probably could have stopped this. But I could have been hurt too, so I probably did the smart thing but it still sucked.

It doesn't matter how many witnesses report the same thing, we're still going to get the usual responses from the bizarre brigade of self-righteous, self-hating thaivisa posters who can't resist popping up in every thread where a foreigner dies and bleating "It must be his fault", "He must have done something to provoke it", "This is their country, we must keep our heads down" and similar drivel.

In addition we will apparently get those who claim that the Thais are out to get foreigners and that this further proof that in coming to Thailand you are taking a deadly risk.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[SteeleJoe]

I think it's time these incidents were more widely published. Thailand is a major tourist destination and almost no-one knows how dangerous it is. Perhaps if evidence was discovered that points to a cover-up by Thai authorities, the resultant lawsuits against foreign representatives of Thai tourism companies would change their minds.

Excellent point, but publishing is muted and in my opinion there has been a huge increase in violence just in the last year to 2 years where virtually none of it is being seen outside of Thailand. Also in my opinion, this violence is a reflection of how the Thai attitudes have changed toward foreigners. Being around drunk Thais doesn't help.

1) Thailand has always been violent.

2) This violence - like the vast majority in Thailand - was not directed toward a foriegner.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Assuming you are a foreigner, it amazes me how people make excuses for Thailand no matter the extent of evidence proving the subject. If you are Thai then I expect this kind of comment from you. Yes, if you take Thailand as a whole, the amount of crime toward foreigners may appear negligible. And using your reference you could kill off hundreds more foreigners and claim, as a whole, there is not that much crime directed at foreigners because of the total amount of crime in Thailand. But if you use previous numbers and use that information relative to now, a very good arguement can be made for an increase in crime against foreigners. And as a foreigner and you are paying attention, you are noticing the changes.

What are you on about? What excuse have I made? What evidence has proven what subject (sic)?

If I am Thai, am I likely to acknowledge that Thailand has always been violent?

It happens that I am foreigner living here for half my life (circa 25 years) and visiting for longer. I wouldn't expect you to know this but as a matter of fact I have written lengthy posts on Thai Visa several times stating how that the only group of posters whom I have possibly more contempt for than that group that obsessively works at disparaging everything Thai and will look for any thing at all to distort and direct as a criticism regardless of its veracity, is the group who absolutely refuse to see anything ever n any way negative about Thailand or Thais and who will unconditionally approve of everything and without exception object to any critical comments.

Now, as I say, I wouldn't expect you to know of those comments, you have zero basis on which to assume that I am of the latter group. I have made no excuses whatsoever.

As for your very good argument based on numbers -- let's see them. And rather than compare only to the total amount of crime in Thailand, why not (also) compare to the number of foreign visitors total?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[dighambara]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

Twenty seconds on Google: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

[NeverSure]

-snip-

As for your very good argument based on numbers -- let's see them. And rather than compare only to the total amount of crime in Thailand, why not (also) compare to the number of foreign visitors total?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I agree. Why not also a comparative look? Number of traffic related deaths per 100,000 capita Thailand - 19.7. Number of murders per 100,000 capita Thailand - 4.8.

Number of tourists in Thailand, 2011, 19 million.

I would advise the 19 million tourists worldwide not to play in the traffic.

[Gulfsailor]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

Twenty seconds on Google: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

Next time spend a little more than 20 seconds of googling, and you'll realise those numbers are wrong, as explained thoroughly on this and other threads before. The error was subsequently corrected in the underlying sources, but nationmaster site ?forgot? to correct.

[samtam]

Well, I hope this gets well publicised in the UK. I think Thailand as a tourism destination needs some serious re-evaluation.

http://www.dailymail...each-party.html

That 'beach' looks like some 3rd world garbage tip!

It's like most of the so-called "resorts" in Thailand. Filthy, full of rubbish, lacking in proper sewerage etc. Clearly a big draw for those wanting to get high, and where like a shooting gallery, (excuse the pun), the environment you're in doesn't matter. It's dangerous out there, (which may be an attraction), but people should be aware of the dangers. Even innocent bystanders like Stephen Ashton and those that follow in this untimely and unneccesary death, should think long and hard about the perceived joys of visiting such places.

Perhaps bitterbatter could say what the attraction is for him in such places, and whether this sad incident would change his mind.

[Tropicalevo]

Several people have noted that when in another country it's not good to make trouble with the locals. True, however, there is a difference with making trouble with the locals and defending yourself against aggression and/or outright abuse. We don't know the full details of the story but from the sounds of it, it seems that some Thais made problems with the young man, he responded, and then a Thai shot him.

So are we who visit LOS simply supposed to take abuse or is there a point at which we should stand up for ourselves and not accept assaults and illegal actions by locals? Could we say the same thing to Thais when they visit our countries? I don't think anyone would. In fact, I'm willing to bet that all of those who are quick to blame the young Brit here would be the first to say that Thais should respond to abuse when abroad.

The real issue here is why is it that Thais believe they have the right to assault foreigners. I think a big part of it is the idea perpetuated by the Thai government and media that foreigners are responsible for all bad things while Thais never do anything wrong. Thais are quick to point to the foreigners at Cowboy and Nana as proof that they only bring bad things to the country, but they are quick to change the subject when you point out that Thais not only work their but own the bars/clubs and that the government is the one that builds these 'entertainment' zones to attract foreigners in the first place.

When Thais assault a foreigner locals and police are predisposed to think that the foreigner was responsible, bad, and deserving of happened. No matter if they were mugged or shot down after defending themselves. It's like blaming the victim of a home invasion for having a home filled with nice things.

What Thailand needs is a healthy dose of bad publicity regarding these events which largely go unpublished outside of the country. Let the Land of Smiles lose some face and get a bad image. If Thais start to accept the fact that maybe -- just maybe -- lots of bad stuff does indeed originate here, it might change some things.

Always helps if you use the brain that god gave you and stay away from dangerous situations no matter where you go. I've been there 11 times and lived there for a few years and never was in a spot of trouble.

Certain places in Thailand have a reputation and if you visit them then you are going to be at risk. Where the Brit died is one such area.

I have lived here for many years now and have always kept out of trouble but tell me all you wannabe Thais who visit here and never ever have anything go wrong.

What happens ( as did to me) you are driving back from a nice afternoon on the beach when a yabaed up taxi driver overtakes you on a blind bend nearly wipes out abike swerves in front of me and nearly takes me off the road.

I did what you naturally do in any civerlised country I instinctivly sounded my horn to stop him hitting my truck.

What did he do he pulled up in front of me jumped out pulled open my door and started punching me in the face.

Later that night I heard from friends he and 5 scum thugs were going around the local bars warning them if they saw me in there they would kill me and burn the bar down.

So tell me me what are you supposed to do?Tell the police thats a joke the taxi mafai rule the police.

Your average Thai male are immature children in an adult body who think and do get away with most things as they are bought up like little spoilt brats.

Best give them a wide berth and have nothing at all to do with them.

and you think that road rage does not exist anywhere else?

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience, but this is NOT a Thai thing.

I left the UK in 1993 to come to Thailand. I was threatened a few times in the UK - in similar cases to your self. I have not been threatened since I arrived in Thailand

[SteeleJoe]

Several people have noted that when in another country it's not good to make trouble with the locals. True, however, there is a difference with making trouble with the locals and defending yourself against aggression and/or outright abuse. We don't know the full details of the story but from the sounds of it, it seems that some Thais made problems with the young man, he responded, and then a Thai shot him.

So are we who visit LOS simply supposed to take abuse or is there a point at which we should stand up for ourselves and not accept assaults and illegal actions by locals? Could we say the same thing to Thais when they visit our countries? I don't think anyone would. In fact, I'm willing to bet that all of those who are quick to blame the young Brit here would be the first to say that Thais should respond to abuse when abroad.

The real issue here is why is it that Thais believe they have the right to assault foreigners. I think a big part of it is the idea perpetuated by the Thai government and media that foreigners are responsible for all bad things while Thais never do anything wrong. Thais are quick to point to the foreigners at Cowboy and Nana as proof that they only bring bad things to the country, but they are quick to change the subject when you point out that Thais not only work their but own the bars/clubs and that the government is the one that builds these 'entertainment' zones to attract foreigners in the first place.

When Thais assault a foreigner locals and police are predisposed to think that the foreigner was responsible, bad, and deserving of happened. No matter if they were mugged or shot down after defending themselves. It's like blaming the victim of a home invasion for having a home filled with nice things.

What Thailand needs is a healthy dose of bad publicity regarding these events which largely go unpublished outside of the country. Let the Land of Smiles lose some face and get a bad image. If Thais start to accept the fact that maybe -- just maybe -- lots of bad stuff does indeed originate here, it might change some things.

Always helps if you use the brain that god gave you and stay away from dangerous situations no matter where you go. I've been there 11 times and lived there for a few years and never was in a spot of trouble.

Certain places in Thailand have a reputation and if you visit them then you are going to be at risk. Where the Brit died is one such area.

I have lived here for many years now and have always kept out of trouble but tell me all you wannabe Thais who visit here and never ever have anything go wrong.

What happens ( as did to me) you are driving back from a nice afternoon on the beach when a yabaed up taxi driver overtakes you on a blind bend nearly wipes out abike swerves in front of me and nearly takes me off the road.

I did what you naturally do in any civerlised country I instinctivly sounded my horn to stop him hitting my truck.

What did he do he pulled up in front of me jumped out pulled open my door and started punching me in the face.

Later that night I heard from friends he and 5 scum thugs were going around the local bars warning them if they saw me in there they would kill me and burn the bar down.

So tell me me what are you supposed to do?Tell the police thats a joke the taxi mafai rule the police.

Your average Thai male are immature children in an adult body who think and do get away with most things as they are bought up like little spoilt brats.

Best give them a wide berth and have nothing at all to do with them.

and you think that road rage does not exist anywhere else?

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience, but this is NOT a Thai thing.

I left the UK in 1993 to come to Thailand. I was threatened a few times in the UK - in similar cases to your self. I have not been threatened since I arrived in Thailand

In what sense is it "NOT a Thai thing"? It (allegedly) happened in Thailand and a Thai was the culprit. Do you mean this sort of unwarranted aggression or violent behavior is not Thai? Perhaps you could be more clear...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[robsamui]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

USA shootings to death = 32,000 (in 2011). Figures for Thailand indicate 550. (US Centre for Disease Control 2007)

Where did you get your figures from, or were you guessing?

R

ps - USA suicides by firearm = 50% higher than homicides.

pps OOPS! Shouvd have read ahead over the next 15 pages - looks like I'm not the only one in this direction!

Edited January 2, 2013 by robsamui