U S House Approves ' Fiscal Cliff' Deal

[Baloo22]

From The Hill, "CBO: 'Fiscal cliff' deal carries $4 trillion price tag over next decade" By Peter Schroeder

"The Senate deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff" will add roughly $4 trillion to the deficit when compared to current law, according to new numbers from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). The CBO determined Tuesday that the package, hammered out late Monday evening by Vice President Biden and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), would — over the next decade — come with a $3.9 trillion price tag."

The figures detailed in this article are from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) which is generally relied upon for non-partisan number crunching in these situations. This feel-good charade that has just passed does virtually nothing in getting federal spending under control. It is just one more immature kick of the can a little further down the road.

[chuckd]

Obviously, a lot of thought went into this legislation before Congress passed it.

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Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

By Matt Cover

January 2, 2013

(CNSNews.com) – The U.S. Senate voted 89-8 to approve legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff despite having only 3 minutes to read the 154-page bill and budget score.

Multiple Senate sources have confirmed to CNSNews.com that senators received the bill at approximately 1:36 AM on Jan. 1, 2013 – a mere three minutes before they voted to approve it at 1:39 AM.

The bill is 154-pages and includes several provisions that are unrelated to the fiscal cliff, including repealing a section of ObamaCare, extending the wind-energy tax credit, and a rum tax subsidy deal for Puerto Rican rum makers.

http://cnsnews.com/n...nutes-voting-it

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...and the House deliberations...

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House Vote on Fiscal Cliff Bill Breaks GOP 3-Day Pledge to Read the Bill

By Matt Cover

January 2, 2013

(CNSNews.com) – When the U.S. House of Representatives voted to pass a Senate bill to avoid the fiscal cliff around 10:45 PM on Tuesday, it violated its pledge to allow three days for the public to read the legislation, a promise House Republicans made to voters before the 2010 elections.

The House passed the bill with a vote of 257-167 in evening on Tuesday, less than 24 hours after the Senate had drafted and passed the bill close to 2:00 AM Tuesday morning.

In its Pledge to America document, House Republicans promised: “We will ensure that bills are debated and discussed in the public square by publishing the text online for at least three days before coming up for a vote in the House of Representatives.

http://cnsnews.com/n...ledge-read-bill

[mania]

Obviously, a lot of thought went into this legislation before Congress passed it.

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Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

By Matt Cover

January 2, 2013

(CNSNews.com) – The U.S. Senate voted 89-8 to approve legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff despite having only 3 minutes to read the 154-page bill and budget score.

Multiple Senate sources have confirmed to CNSNews.com that senators received the bill at approximately 1:36 AM on Jan. 1, 2013 – a mere three minutes before they voted to approve it at 1:39 AM.

The bill is 154-pages and includes several provisions that are unrelated to the fiscal cliff, including repealing a section of ObamaCare, extending the wind-energy tax credit, and a rum tax subsidy deal for Puerto Rican rum makers.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

I remember the 700 Billion bail out that almost none got to read because

1- It was too big

2- There was a question as to how many copies were actually available.

Later same as now they found all kinds of Pork barrel spending hidden inside.

Even silly things like tax breaks for makers of wooden arrows

Among all the sweeteners added to the $700 billion financial bailout bill passed by the Senate

none has attracted more attention than a tax break for wooden archery arrows used by kids.

The exemption would eliminate a 43-cent excise tax on the arrows, which probably raises less than $200,000 a year for Uncle Sam.

http://www.cnbc.com/..._of_the_Bailout

Government gone wild is all I can say

Edited January 4, 2013 by mania

[samran]

Obviously, a lot of thought went into this legislation before Congress passed it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

By Matt Cover

January 2, 2013

(CNSNews.com) – The U.S. Senate voted 89-8 to approve legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff despite having only 3 minutes to read the 154-page bill and budget score.

Multiple Senate sources have confirmed to CNSNews.com that senators received the bill at approximately 1:36 AM on Jan. 1, 2013 – a mere three minutes before they voted to approve it at 1:39 AM.

The bill is 154-pages and includes several provisions that are unrelated to the fiscal cliff, including repealing a section of ObamaCare, extending the wind-energy tax credit, and a rum tax subsidy deal for Puerto Rican rum makers.

http://cnsnews.com/n...nutes-voting-it

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...and the House deliberations...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

House Vote on Fiscal Cliff Bill Breaks GOP 3-Day Pledge to Read the Bill

By Matt Cover

January 2, 2013

(CNSNews.com) – When the U.S. House of Representatives voted to pass a Senate bill to avoid the fiscal cliff around 10:45 PM on Tuesday, it violated its pledge to allow three days for the public to read the legislation, a promise House Republicans made to voters before the 2010 elections.

The House passed the bill with a vote of 257-167 in evening on Tuesday, less than 24 hours after the Senate had drafted and passed the bill close to 2:00 AM Tuesday morning.

In its Pledge to America document, House Republicans promised: “We will ensure that bills are debated and discussed in the public square by publishing the text online for at least three days before coming up for a vote in the House of Representatives.

http://cnsnews.com/n...ledge-read-bill

Congress have form on this I guess. They didn't read the Patriot Act either.

[samran]

Obviously, a lot of thought went into this legislation before Congress passed it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

By Matt Cover

January 2, 2013

(CNSNews.com) – The U.S. Senate voted 89-8 to approve legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff despite having only 3 minutes to read the 154-page bill and budget score.

Multiple Senate sources have confirmed to CNSNews.com that senators received the bill at approximately 1:36 AM on Jan. 1, 2013 – a mere three minutes before they voted to approve it at 1:39 AM.

The bill is 154-pages and includes several provisions that are unrelated to the fiscal cliff, including repealing a section of ObamaCare, extending the wind-energy tax credit, and a rum tax subsidy deal for Puerto Rican rum makers.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

I remember the 700 Billion bail out that almost none got to read because

1- It was too big

2- There was a question as to how many copies were actually available.

Later same as now they found all kinds of Pork barrel spending hidden inside.

Even silly things like tax breaks for makers of wooden arrows

Among all the sweeteners added to the $700 billion financial bailout bill passed by the Senate

none has attracted more attention than a tax break for wooden archery arrows used by kids.

The exemption would eliminate a 43-cent excise tax on the arrows, which probably raises less than $200,000 a year for Uncle Sam.

http://www.cnbc.com/..._of_the_Bailout

Government gone wild is all I can say

My guess is that it would have been more expensive to collect the arrows tax than the revenue it received. But those sticking up for the second ammemdment should be happy that young hunters to be will have another less taxed way to defend themselves against a potential autocratic government.

More seriously though, the fact that tax breaks like this even existed just shows how mucked up the US tax code is.

You'd be better getting rids of a multitude of dumb taxes like that one, state taxes etc, and replacing it with a uniform 10% to15% VAT on all goods and services.

[chuckd]

Congress also did not read Obamacare before they passed it. That little fiasco will end up adding several trillion to the debt.

Now how about all that pork that was included in the fiscal cliff hemorrhage?

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Tim Carney: How corporate tax credits got in the 'cliff' deal

January 2, 2013 | 6:00 pm

Timothy P. Carney

Senior political columnist

The Washington Examiner

The "fiscal cliff" legislation passed this week included $76 billion in special-interest tax credits for the likes of General Electric, Hollywood and even Captain Morgan. But these subsidies weren't the fruit of eleventh-hour lobbying conducted on the cliff's edge -- they were crafted back in August in a Senate committee, and they sat dormant until the White House reportedly insisted on them this week.

The Family and Business Tax Cut Certainty Act of 2012, which passed through the Senate Finance Committee in August, was copied and pasted into the fiscal cliff legislation, yielding a victory for biotech companies, wind-turbine-makers, biodiesel producers, film studios -- and their lobbyists. So, if you're wondering how algae subsidies became part of a must-pass package to avert the dreaded fiscal cliff, credit the Biotechnology Industry Organization's lobbying last summer.

Some tax lobbyists mostly ignored the August bill "because they thought it would be just a political document," one K Streeter told me. "They were the ones that got bit in the butt."

Read here how it happened:

http://washingtonexa...97#.UOZ40-SZ91u

[LomSak27]

Oh my that was so ... exciting. I can't wait to see what crisis the Cons come up with next - I do hope they wait, at least tell the bowl games, playoffs and Super Bowl, are over OR I might not care about their next 'manufactured crisis'.

[F430murci]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/04/16334798-fiscal-cliff-deal-includes-at-least-679-billion-for-special-interests?lite

[thaibeachlovers]

Obviously, a lot of thought went into this legislation before Congress passed it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

By Matt Cover

January 2, 2013

(CNSNews.com) – The U.S. Senate voted 89-8 to approve legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff despite having only 3 minutes to read the 154-page bill and budget score.

Multiple Senate sources have confirmed to CNSNews.com that senators received the bill at approximately 1:36 AM on Jan. 1, 2013 – a mere three minutes before they voted to approve it at 1:39 AM.

The bill is 154-pages and includes several provisions that are unrelated to the fiscal cliff, including repealing a section of ObamaCare, extending the wind-energy tax credit, and a rum tax subsidy deal for Puerto Rican rum makers.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

I remember the 700 Billion bail out that almost none got to read because

1- It was too big

2- There was a question as to how many copies were actually available.

Later same as now they found all kinds of Pork barrel spending hidden inside.

Even silly things like tax breaks for makers of wooden arrows

Among all the sweeteners added to the $700 billion financial bailout bill passed by the Senate

none has attracted more attention than a tax break for wooden archery arrows used by kids.

The exemption would eliminate a 43-cent excise tax on the arrows, which probably raises less than $200,000 a year for Uncle Sam.

http://www.cnbc.com/..._of_the_Bailout

Government gone wild is all I can say

The Hurricane Sandy relief bill is full of pork added by senators. Hopefully Congress will split the bill and refuse to pass the pork.

Seems like there is fat chance of sanity on the 16 trillion debt before the economy implodes.

[mania]

The Hurricane Sandy relief bill is full of pork added by senators. Hopefully Congress will split the bill and refuse to pass the pork.

Seems like there is fat chance of sanity on the 16 trillion debt before the economy implodes.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "

Albert Einstein

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Please stay on the topic.

[Baloo22]

Well, at least there were some sane minds in the House of Representatives; 167 Representatives, 151 Republican and 16 Democrat, voted "No" to this bogus, pork-laden, kick the can down the road, sham. These are the people that need to be re-elected next election. Unfortunately, 257 "pigs at the trough" voted for it. These are the ones that need to be booted out. "FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 659"

[lomatopo]

Some good news, probably deserves a thread of its own?

U.S. Budget Deficit Shrinks Far Faster Than Expected

By ANNIE LOWREY

Published: May 14, 2013

WASHINGTON — Since the recession ended four years ago, the federal budget deficit has topped $1 trillion every year. But now the government’s annual deficit is shrinking far faster than anyone in Washington expected, and perhaps even faster than many economists think is advisable for the health of the economy.

Multimedia

That is the thrust of a new report released Tuesday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, estimating that the deficit for this fiscal year, which ends on Sept. 30, will fall to about $642 billion, or 4 percent of the nation’s annual economic output, about $200 billion lower than the agency estimated just three months ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/business/cbo-cuts-2013-deficit-estimate-by-24-percent.html

=================

Federal deficit shrinks at surprising rate

It's on track to fall below where it was when Obama took office, and the long-term debt is more stable, the Congressional Budget Office says. The numbers may bolster the president's stance in budget battles with Republicans.

By David Lauter, Washington Bureau

May 14, 2013, 6:56 p.m.

WASHINGTON — The federal deficit is shrinking more quickly than expected, and the government's long-term debt has largely stabilized for the next decade, the Congressional Budget Office said Tuesday in a report that could strengthen the Obama administration's hand in the budget battles with congressional Republicans.

The budget office continues to say the federal government faces a long-range budget problem — mostly caused by the costs of an aging population — but its new forecast pushes the crunch point for that problem off into a considerably more distant future: well after the 2020 presidential election.

The deficit projection for this year — $642 billion — is almost 25% less than the deficit the budget office had forecast as recently as February. At the new level, the annual deficit would be back to where it was before President Obama took office. It would continue to fall for the rest of Obama's tenure, the budget office now projects. By contrast, the deficit for fiscal year 2012 came in at just over $1 trillion.

Three major factors account for most of the long-term improvement: a better economy, a continued slowdown in the rate of medical inflation — which reduces the cost of Medicare and Medicaid — and higher taxes that Congress approved as part of the "fiscal cliff" deal in January, the budget office said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-deficit-shrinking-20130515,0,6831897.story

[Jingthing]

Careful. Most of the American here don't want to hear any good economic news. Scandal mania only please!

[chuckd]

The timing on this release would seem suspicious in light of the many scandals the current administration is hiding from.

It is good news until one examines it a bit. What one should realize is the CBO has come out with this based on figures through April 2013. Remind me again. What happens on 15 April each year?

Tax revenue is at its highest level in several years for April. It should be noted the new taxes being imposed by Obamacare took effect on 1 January 2013 yet benefits under Obamacare are not scheduled to go into effect until 1 January 2014. In addition many of the Bush tax cuts were permitted to expire, thereby raising taxes on nearly all tax payers.

I expect even Solyndra could have made a profit if they had all their normal revenue and didn't have to pay salaries or utility bills for a year.

When the real unemployment rate gets down to a manageable figure then it will be time to rejoice. This is simply more smoke and mirrors put out by the administration.

Edited May 15, 2013 by chuckd

[lomatopo]

This is simply more smoke and mirrors put out by the administration.

This information was published by the Congressional Budget Office.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44172

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44172-Baseline2.pdf

"If the current laws that govern federal taxes and spending do not change, the budget deficit will shrink this year to $642 billion, CBO estimates, the smallest shortfall since 2008. Relative to the size of the economy, the deficit this year—at 4.0 percent of gross domestic product (GDP)—will be less than half as large as the shortfall in 2009, which was 10.1 percent of GDP.

Because revenues, under current law, are projected to rise more rapidly than spending in the next two years, deficits in CBO’s baseline projections continue to shrink, falling to 2.1 percent of GDP by 2015. However, budget shortfalls are projected to increase later in the coming decade, reaching 3.5 percent of GDP in 2023, because of the pressures of an aging population, rising health care costs, an expansion of federal subsidies for health insurance, and growing interest payments on federal debt. By comparison, the deficit averaged 3.1 percent of GDP over the past 40 years and 2.4 percent in the 40 years before fiscal year 2008, when the most recent recession began. During the next 10 years, both revenues and outlays are projected to be above their 40-year averages as a percentage of GDP"

CBO Overview:

"Since its founding in 1974, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has produced independent analyses of budgetary and economic issues to support the Congressional budget process. The agency is strictly nonpartisan and conducts objective, impartial analysis, which is evident in each of the dozens of reports and hundreds of cost estimates that its economists and policy analysts produce each year."

http://www.cbo.gov/about/overview

[chuckd]

This is simply more smoke and mirrors put out by the administration.

This information was published by the Congressional Budget Office.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44172

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44172-Baseline2.pdf

"If the current laws that govern federal taxes and spending do not change, the budget deficit will shrink this year to $642 billion, CBO estimates, the smallest shortfall since 2008. Relative to the size of the economy, the deficit this year—at 4.0 percent of gross domestic product (GDP)—will be less than half as large as the shortfall in 2009, which was 10.1 percent of GDP.

Because revenues, under current law, are projected to rise more rapidly than spending in the next two years, deficits in CBO’s baseline projections continue to shrink, falling to 2.1 percent of GDP by 2015. However, budget shortfalls are projected to increase later in the coming decade, reaching 3.5 percent of GDP in 2023, because of the pressures of an aging population, rising health care costs, an expansion of federal subsidies for health insurance, and growing interest payments on federal debt. By comparison, the deficit averaged 3.1 percent of GDP over the past 40 years and 2.4 percent in the 40 years before fiscal year 2008, when the most recent recession began. During the next 10 years, both revenues and outlays are projected to be above their 40-year averages as a percentage of GDP"

CBO Overview:

"Since its founding in 1974, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has produced independent analyses of budgetary and economic issues to support the Congressional budget process. The agency is strictly nonpartisan and conducts objective, impartial analysis, which is evident in each of the dozens of reports and hundreds of cost estimates that its economists and policy analysts produce each year."

http://www.cbo.gov/about/overview

There was no real excitement in February when the news initially came out about a possible deficit reduction. This is all old news being flashed around.

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The Best Kept Secret In American Politics-Federal Budget Deficits Are Actually Shrinking!

OP/ED | 2/27/2013 @ 5:21PM |14,755 views

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/02/27/the-best-kept-secret-in-american-politics-federal-budget-deficits-are-actually-shrinking/

[lomatopo]

So no smoke and mirrors then? Glad that's resolved.

[chuckd]

So no smoke and mirrors then? Glad that's resolved.

The smoke and mirrors are that the subject comes up yet again.

[F430murci]

Haha, sour grape syndrome. Many that fail is the US may harbor resentment or bitterness at the notion that US is actually doing quiet well at the moment. Dow 15,215, oil and gas cheaper, housing picking up, small businesses picking up, unemployment at 7.5 and heading in right direction (even with sequester in place), dollar stronger (good and bad), gold heading to $12,000 with some even saying $500 as support (I said $1,100 several months ago), long term debt stabilizing, and on and on.

The biggest drag on US economy right now is Euro and China struggles or macro issues. Hate to break it to you chuckd, but we are doing quite well here in the US and much better than 99.9 % of other regions in the world facing serious social and economic struggles.

[Jingthing]

Don't get carried away. The chronic unemployment thing is damaging the lives of tens of millions of Americans, mostly permanently.

[F430murci]

Don't get carried away. The chronic unemployment thing is damaging the lives of tens of millions of Americans, mostly permanently.

I get that, but we don't live in a perfect world and absent communism not sure if 0 % unemployment is feasible.

The U6 number is extremely confusing. This past August alone, U6 surged 450,000 in the 16 - 24 age bracket solely because kids leaving workforce to return to school in the fall. Many fixed incomer retirees considered entering work force in 08 and 09 when their investments or pensions were cut in half. Those have now dropped out of job market search with their investments back to higher than pre 2008 levels.

US is a very competitive market and one can thrive here with a good education, good work ethics and commitment. U6 numbers have have large component if individuals with no education and no particular skill or trade. Sone rather collect benefits than work for minimum wage doing crappy jobs that pays no more than benefits.

Education is so critical in today's job market. Opportunity is there. We have turned the corner and are on the right path. People here just cannot expect it to be given to them like a lot of those U6s.

[F430murci]

A close friend of mine, 25 old Ukrainian girl, just left her abusive, drug addict but musician rich husband. 4 years here and never had to work. She left him with only the clothes on her back and $ 1,500 about 45 days ago. She moved to a different city so he could not find her, got two jobs, bought a car and is doing it on her own. She has no US education and never had a job in US before. She has no family here and wants nothing for her gajillionaire soon to BR ex-husband. If she can do it anyone can so a lot of the U6s need to drop the crack pipe, get off their arse and stop relying upon a hand out.

Edited May 15, 2013 by F430murci

[NeverSure]

While I agree the US and the EU have a large and unsustainable debt to GDP ratio, if you used this logic no one would ever take out a mortgage, business loan or debt funding for transactions.

Wouldn't that be wonderful? "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." All governments would be debt free and spending only what they receive and we would all be more secure. A big chunk of business and private income wouldn't first go to debt service.

Homes and cars, etc. could cost only what people could pay. No more increasing the maximum term on a car loan from 2 years to 3 years to 5 years and then 7 years to cover the rising costs.

No more increasing the maximum term of a home loan from 5 years to 30 years over time to make slaves out of people.

No one would be a slave to the worthless bankers. Everyone would be walking around free from them.

Let's get it done.

[Dancealot]

While I agree the US and the EU have a large and unsustainable debt to GDP ratio, if you used this logic no one would ever take out a mortgage, business loan or debt funding for transactions.

Wouldn't that be wonderful? "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." All governments would be debt free and spending only what they receive and we would all be more secure. A big chunk of business and private income wouldn't first go to debt service.

Homes and cars, etc. could cost only what people could pay. No more increasing the maximum term on a car loan from 2 years to 3 years to 5 years and then 7 years to cover the rising costs.

No more increasing the maximum term of a home loan from 5 years to 30 years over time to make slaves out of people.

No one would be a slave to the worthless bankers. Everyone would be walking around free from them.

Let's get it done.

Pay what you have and don't spend what is not yours. The modern slave does not know.. They actually feel happy and ok living like this, sadly. They live in a facade.

The old slave knows he is being used and screwed.

[lomatopo]

So no smoke and mirrors then? Glad that's resolved.

The smoke and mirrors are that the subject comes up yet again.

Oh, OK. Before you said that the "Smoke and Mirrors" was being supplied by "The Administration". Now, I guess, you are saying that bringing up the topic of improving economic and budgetary conditions in the U.S. is "smoke and mirrors"? Color me confused.

[chuckd]

So no smoke and mirrors then? Glad that's resolved.

The smoke and mirrors are that the subject comes up yet again.

Oh, OK. Before you said that the "Smoke and Mirrors" was being supplied by "The Administration". Now, I guess, you are saying that bringing up the topic of improving economic and budgetary conditions in the U.S. is "smoke and mirrors"? Color me confused.

Done. You are now officially confused,

[lomatopo]

You seem to have the effect on people. But as long as you are confused to it's win-win.

[Scott]

Now I am getting confused. What was the topic again?

Oh, yes something about a Fiscal Cliff....let's stay on that topic, please.

[lomatopo]

More economic good news from the U.S.

Consumer Sentiment Index in U.S. Rose to 83.7 in May

By Lorraine Woellert - May 18, 2013

Americans’ confidence in the economy climbed in May to the highest level in almost six years as rising real estate values and record stock prices boosted household wealth. The Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan preliminary index of consumer sentiment increased to 83.7, the highest since July 2007, from 76.4 in April, a report today showed. Separately, the Conference Board’s gauge of the economic outlook for the next three to six months climbed 0.6 percent in April, more than forecast.

The gain in confidence shows Americans are overcoming the effects of higher taxes and a package of federal spending cuts, known as sequestration, that threatens to take a toll on jobs. Stocks rallied as the reports underscored forecasts for a pickup in the economic expansion later this year. “As fiscal drag fades in the second half of the year, the case can be made that overall growth is going to accelerate,” said Jim O’Sullivan, chief U.S. economist at High Frequency Economics in Valhalla, New York, and the top forecaster of consumer sentiment in the past two years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The gain in confidence “is testimony to underlying growth in spending power.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-17/consumer-sentiment-index-in-u-s-rose-to-83-7-in-may-from-76-4.html