Son And Further Education What A Laugh

[krisb]

Why not get a girlfriend who isn't the mother to some other guy's children?

Especially if that girl has children that grow up to make comments like this.

[culicine]

I know of at least one very large group of fairly well regarded (by Thais) and very well known PRIVATE schools where the unofficial policy is that no one fails.

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Actually students CAN be asked to repeat a year, but there are a number of requirements - such as the student needs to have failed at least 5/6 subjects; material should be retaught and retested, etc. Schools simply don't bother because of these requirements and also the loss of face (the school failed to educate the student; even though said student may have a learning or other kind of disability). I was asked to pass a grade 7 student who couldn't draw a line using a ruler last year. But as it happened, on the first day of grade 8, his name was not on the list for grade 8, but still on the 7th grade list. The school was not going to let him through; so the parents took him out of the school (which is what the school wanted, anyway). Most Thai schools have no facilities or expertise to teach such students).

But to the OP, I know how it must feel. I have taught numerous students such as you GF's son, but they are from well-off families, so they will buy their way into some lowly regarded university, and if lucky, might get through. Mid you, I know of some students who have spent many years trying to pass first year uni! Seriously, many of them should be working in a factory or on a farm, or going to vocational school. But no...loss of face again, for those with money. It could be the boy still needs to do some growing up - kids here at 18 are still very immature, for the most part. A hotel course is a fair option, providing he can improve his english. Then there are the vocational schools. You need to find out what his interests are, and take it from there.Good luck with it!

[harryfrompattaya]

Calm down Steele, if you read it again (without taking a defensive position) you will see that I 1) edited my post soon after, and 2) it was not a 'dig.' Once again, to the OP, good luck though. It's only you and your wife who can get him on track, possibly not his friends as birds of a feather ...

Oops, not very clear edit. Thai Visa in place of TV from earlier.

I am sorry to say but you told us enough whoes fault it is you should known yourself I can not tell you because Thai Visa would be mad with me.

But you PM me I will be glad to inform you

[kwonitoy]

OP:

Several years ago when it looked like my wife and I would remain childless (since solved), she took a big interest in trying to help an orphaned boy in the next village to ours.

It might have come from being orphaned herself, but also no kids at that time.

The boy was about 14 years old at the time and she asked if he could move in with us and we could help him going to school.

When we put it to him he said he didn't want to live with us but would like to finish his basic education and then go for training as a mechanic.

I had no problem with this kind of help, he seemed to want to get ahead by himself and just needed some help. He finished his basic schooling and then went to Bangkok for 2 years for mechanic's school. This cost me about 7,000 baht per quarter and I have no problem paying for anyones schooling. He got a job at a Toyota dealer and worked as a gofer and realized after about 6 months that he would need more training to move up the mechanic's heirarchy. So back to school for 2 more years. Graduated and went for a pre-employment test at a dealer. He failed this test miserably, saying that he had zero mechanical aptitude.

I know when he tries to help me in the shop he has trouble putting a nut on a bolt

I guess the schools were happy to take the money and pass him on in grade.

He now works for us as a rubber tapper and is quite happy, he says it's better than working at a Toyota dealer. He makes more money and is at home

Ken

Edited January 2, 2013 by kwonitoy

[loong]

It sounds as if the boy doesn't really have any goals at all and just takes the path of least resistance because his mum enables him to, and judging by the way he cycled through those particular degree choices it doesn't seem like he's particularly interested in actually learning anything either. If I read between the lines correctly then I suspect that your GF spoils her children in an effort to compensate for something or other.

With his mother enabling him no matter what he does it is pointless for you to get involved or to try to exert any control. I think that the most constructive thing you can do is to somehow help him to find himself. Until he evolves a bit more, expending effort on the matter will just be like pushing a rope.

I don't exactly agree with you, but then I don't entirely disagree either.

hopefully you have read my earlier post.

Early in this relationship, when her son was about 13 years old, The Missus did not like me chastising her children. We had a few arguments about it. Eventually, she agreed that as i was the main provider, I had a right to stamp my authority.

Even though she allowed me this authority, she would still go behind my back, unbeknown to me.

When I cut off the cash and told him that he had to go out and earn his money, The Missus would give him money that I didn't know about.

When I found out about her giving him money was when she admitted that she was scared of him. She was intimidated by her own son.

That was the time that she actually handed me 100% authority, she wanted me to sort out her son.

That was the time referred to in my earlier post.

I really tore into him verbally and since then, he has been going to work. Mind you he spends as little time around me as possible. He still doesn't contribute anything to the family budget, but at least he doesn't have his hand out all the time.

The saddest thing about it is that my little 7 year old step daughter witnessed me shouting at her brother. For about 2 weeks she was walking on eggshells. She was sweeping up outside and I asked her why she was doing that. She said that she was worried that I would hate her if she was lazy. I had to explain to her that at this time of her life, she only has to go to school and enjoy her childhood.

I can't believe it! While I've been writing this post, her son has come home because he has lost his job because of not turning up. He's gone out again, just as well as i feel like beating the shit out of him!

Again OP, be warned, you take on a stepson you will have a lot of challenges, I just hope that you can handle them better than me!

[breadbin]

The issue that you probably have is that you gf/wife expects you to pay for these expenses and therefore there is no risk for her. Tell he she needs to pay and you will not give any money towards this. I bet she'll soon agree or. She'll leave you as you are a cheap Charlie!

Make the stand and then you'll know why she is with you.

Good luck

[TommoPhysicist]

I really tore into him verbally and since then, he has been going to work. Mind you he spends as little time around me as possible. He still doesn't contribute anything to the family budget, but at least he doesn't have his hand out all the time.

I'm not entirely sure that shouting at other men's children ever produces a desirable result.

Best to avoid women with teen boys in tow altogether, they are usually trouble.

If you can't avoid that, let them join the army, don't give them money.

Wife gives them money, then don't give her money.

I do have a teen step-daughter, but she is good as gold, under threat of being sent to live with her grandmother.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[manly100]

How about opening up a provisioning account, for your girlfriend and her son. Keep making contributions to the account for as long as needed. This shouldn't be longer then say... forever. Make sure there is always enough money for both of them. This amount should not be more then every baht, cent and penny you've got in the world. If the provisioning account runs low, just begin selling things, everything you have should be enough. If you lose everything before you die make sure to give some helpful advice to your girlfriend and her son before you return home. Say something like... ask the next guy to set up a provisioning account.

[Trembly]

It sounds as if the boy doesn't really have any goals at all and just takes the path of least resistance because his mum enables him to, and judging by the way he cycled through those particular degree choices it doesn't seem like he's particularly interested in actually learning anything either. If I read between the lines correctly then I suspect that your GF spoils her children in an effort to compensate for something or other.

With his mother enabling him no matter what he does it is pointless for you to get involved or to try to exert any control. I think that the most constructive thing you can do is to somehow help him to find himself. Until he evolves a bit more, expending effort on the matter will just be like pushing a rope.

I don't exactly agree with you, but then I don't entirely disagree either.

hopefully you have read my earlier post.

Early in this relationship, when her son was about 13 years old, The Missus did not like me chastising her children. We had a few arguments about it. Eventually, she agreed that as i was the main provider, I had a right to stamp my authority.

Even though she allowed me this authority, she would still go behind my back, unbeknown to me.

When I cut off the cash and told him that he had to go out and earn his money, The Missus would give him money that I didn't know about.

When I found out about her giving him money was when she admitted that she was scared of him. She was intimidated by her own son.

That was the time that she actually handed me 100% authority, she wanted me to sort out her son.

That was the time referred to in my earlier post.

I really tore into him verbally and since then, he has been going to work. Mind you he spends as little time around me as possible. He still doesn't contribute anything to the family budget, but at least he doesn't have his hand out all the time.

The saddest thing about it is that my little 7 year old step daughter witnessed me shouting at her brother. For about 2 weeks she was walking on eggshells. She was sweeping up outside and I asked her why she was doing that. She said that she was worried that I would hate her if she was lazy. I had to explain to her that at this time of her life, she only has to go to school and enjoy her childhood.

I can't believe it! While I've been writing this post, her son has come home because he has lost his job because of not turning up. He's gone out again, just as well as i feel like beating the shit out of him!

Again OP, be warned, you take on a stepson you will have a lot of challenges, I just hope that you can handle them better than me!

None of us but the OP can know the lie of the land in his household but I think that the key difference between you and the OP is that your wife eventually conceded that you should be in charge. She admitted that she does everything to appease her son because she is afraid of him and handed the reins over to you after you basically made her understand that you were going to guarantee her security in the house, wordlessly or not.

From the OP's description it doesn't sound like his wife is particularly afraid of her own son but rather has an indulgently over-inflated opinion of his qualities. This makes me think if she has to pick a side (something she will automatically do when a difference between the way her son is going and the OP's patience arises) she will pick her son's side, which means that any attempt by the OP to impose will would be ripe for the son to manipulate because he'll just tug on her heart strings at the first sign of any trouble and she'll turn into mother hen, pecking back at the OP to protect her son. From the OP's position there is just no way of winning by force majeure, it'd be like trying to shape water.

I hope that both your and the OP's young charges grow up sooner than later!

Edited January 2, 2013 by Trembly

[Bluetongue]

Fascinating. Several posters refer to getting him into the Army to sort him out. Wrong. For a start he has to wait three more years before the marble ceremony and my observation has been the more I hope they draw the black or the red, whichever it is (the one where they have to go) the more they dont. These are basically various freeloading nephews I am talking about. And as I have found out since my stepson (now 26) got out of the Army it made no difference. The Army is another branch of Thai society corruption, inefficiency'n'all. It doesn't teach them much at all as far as I can see, perhaps if they stayed in it, there is a potential career, but they dont. After a year of lazing around Rayong guarding some palace he spent another year as a watchman on some Army officer's private building development. An arrangement he was supposed to be paid extra for but claims he wasn't. Only at the height of the red-shirts was he required to don the uniform again.

The last 6 months of his Army tenure he didn't talk to his mother as she had told him he had to work if he came home. He wanted to bludge on the rich farang as wildorchid puts it, as he had done up til that point. So after about a month spent blowing the 16k he came home with, he got a job. This lasted 6 months until his employer told him that if he finished school level 6 he could have a permanent easier job. Without asking he enrolled in school at the age of 24 and on the basis that we were told he could get a better paying job we funded him for that 12 months. This seemed to consist of him going nearly every day but just going throught he hoops and turning up. the day the wife and I went to school to get something he and his friends were lounging around under a tree no doubt enjoying the sight of all the mini'skirted teen queens sashaying up and down. Then we got a bill from the Army, they had overpaid him, we had to pay that, another 800 baht pissed up against the wall. At the end of January he said he had finished and was just waiting for the school to finalise the paperwork (this is the same thing that happened when he originally did year 6 all those years ago). By the end of March I had had enough of him and kicked him out. He was coming back to the family compound late at night and sleeping in a SIL's house. Anyway, as it turned out he hadn't finished he had to do a work experience module over the April/May holidays something his classmates had already done he claimed he didn't know, but it was just so clearly another delaying tactic we had another huge argument.

So by the end of May he had the certificate and a week later he got his permanent job but to my chagrin still only got 159baht per day.

Since that time another two years have passed by and he has held the job, including through periods of time where he has to work 84 hours per week. Doesn't do very much I dont think, probably sleeps on the overnight shifts. I have noticed signs of small improvement but our relationship could only be described as wary neutrality on his side. But I am utterly sick to death of the prick.

A cynic as I am I might say that the small improvement is only due to the fact that he has a long term girlfriend and she is finishing university this year. He probably wants to move her in here, or marry her or something and get us to fund it obviously. He has no money spends it all on a toy motorbike and playing snooker. The wife sees his few good points only and compared to a lot of the other layabouts around here I can see where she is coming from.

All I can say to the OP is you probably have a few more years of it yet. I have found that compartmentalising it works for me, like I dont allow to intrude on other aspects of my life here - well as much as possible anyway.

[chiangmaikelly]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

[Bluetongue]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

Yes I know you, with your tongue firmly in cheek, suggested Marine Recon, that is like telling Gomer Pyle's mum to put him in Seals. Twon't happen. The only thing this guy will fly is a kite. Next.

[WilliamCave]

I noticed the past 2 years my son has improved to an A student since he started martial arts it has taught him self disaplene and patience . Sports can help a lot with concentration also. But then again my kids speak English now.

[Trembly]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

The Air Force have the best on base quality of life hands down - they have better food, better buildings, and rumour has it that they have better looking nurses too - but the Navy have more interesting postings (Songkhla, Phuket, the Mekhong river bases).

[SteeleJoe]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

Yes, pilots fly. That's a safe bet. However, pilots not only make a minority of the Air Force (just as combat troops make up a minority of the Army or Marines) they are officers. In other words they have a decent to good education. Even those who have sufficient education to be an officer and apply for flight duty don't always qualify and among thsoe that do som of them get less than glamorous jobs. People often think you can just volunteer for an Air Force and become a hotshot pilot but that just aint so.

So much of many people's perceptions of the military - and the people who serve in it - are shaped by movies and commonly accepted but fallacious stereotypes...I'm not sure if there's any other profession/way of life about which this is as true.

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[SteeleJoe]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

The Air Force have the best on base quality of life hands down - they have better food, better buildings, and rumour has it that they have better looking nurses too - but the Navy have more interesting postings (Songkhla, Phuket, the Mekhong river bases).

From my own time in the military and my association with the military personnel of various other countries, I have found this to be a universal truth about the Air Force. And they have the easiest PT (physical training), good chow, entertainment facilities and in many respects the least stringent military discipline (ie marching, uniforms etc). Marine Aviators on the other hand, are another story in regards to the last -- a Marine is a Marine.

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[Trembly]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

Yes, pilots fly. That's a safe bet. However, pilots not only make a minority of the Air Force (just as combat troops make up a minority of the Army or Marines) they are officers. In other words they have a decent to good education. Even those who have sufficient education to be an officer and apply for flight duty don't always qualify and among thsoe that do som of them get less than glamorous jobs. People often think you can just volunteer for an Air Force and become a hotshot pilot but that just aint so.

So much of many people's perceptions of the military - and the people who serve in it - are shaped by movies and commonly accepted but fallacious stereotypes...I'm not sure if there's any other profession/way of life about which this is as true.

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If you make it through pilot training in the Thai Air Force a life of Riley awaits. To have made it thus far you will be a university (probably science, mathematics or engineering) graduate and you will be physically very fit (core body strength is a must). There are even possibilities for secondment to Thai Airways whilst being paid by both TA and the air force. You'll be beating the crumpet off with a shitty stick.

[chiangmaikelly]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

The Air Force have the best on base quality of life hands down - they have better food, better buildings, and rumour has it that they have better looking nurses too - but the Navy have more interesting postings (Songkhla, Phuket, the Mekhong river bases).

From my own time in the military and my association with the military personnel of various other countries, I have found this to be a universal truth about the Air Force. And they have the easiest PT (physical training), good chow, entertainment facilities and in many respects the least stringent military discipline (ie marching, uniforms etc). Marine Aviators on the other hand, are another story in regards to the last -- a Marine is a Marine.

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I have to admit in the Thai military I know 99% officers. Airborne, Navy, Air force and Marines. Nice guys. They live around me. They work every day and after the military get good jobs for the most part.

I had a job in the Army that had an exact match in the Air force. And you are correct. The Air force guy had it made down to the fact that his mattress was 2 inches thicker than mine. He also made more money, got more time off, more women and drank more. Oh, and, blue was my color and I was stuck with that darn OD green

Edited January 3, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[SteeleJoe]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

Yes, pilots fly. That's a safe bet. However, pilots not only make a minority of the Air Force (just as combat troops make up a minority of the Army or Marines) they are officers. In other words they have a decent to good education. Even those who have sufficient education to be an officer and apply for flight duty don't always qualify and among thsoe that do som of them get less than glamorous jobs. People often think you can just volunteer for an Air Force and become a hotshot pilot but that just aint so.

So much of many people's perceptions of the military - and the people who serve in it - are shaped by movies and commonly accepted but fallacious stereotypes...I'm not sure if there's any other profession/way of life about which this is as true.

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If you make it through pilot training in the Thai Air Force a life of Riley awaits. To have made it thus far you will be a university (probably science, mathematics or engineering) graduate and you will be physically very fit (core body strength is a must). There are even possibilities for secondment to Thai Airways whilst being paid by both TA and the air force. You'll be beating the crumpet off with a shitty stick.

Indeed.

As for the physically fit part - I guess that was a rare instance of the stereotypical but often true intra-service rivalry and bias showing through...pilots are very healthy and fit, certainly. I was in a unit that - not without some justification as our was amongst the hardest in the world - sneered at virtually everyone else's PT and level of fitness and I happened to be based near the Air Force: we'd often see their personnel (by no means all of them pilots) doing very desultory and minimal PT -- and poorly at that.

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[SteeleJoe]

I had a job in the Army that had an exact match in the Air force. And you are correct. The Air force guy had it made down to the fact that his mattress was 2 inches thicker than mine. He also made more money, got more time off, more women and drank more. Oh, and, blue was my color and I was stuck with that darn OD green

Classic example. Thanks!

I didn't mind OD green and I was in the unit (and thus the branch) I wanted -- like everyone else there nearly killed myself getting in it. But I did think it was unjust that we worked way harder but we had to go to their clubs for a good time (where the best looking women showed up) and eat at their mess for some good food.

And while guys in my unit (with our distinctive (ridiculous) haircuts) often impressed the ladies, we had no chance against the pilots.

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[Trembly]

Actually I suggested Marine Recon. But the Navy guys clean the rotten food left from the Sattahip night market every day and get postings at sea and do some travel. The Air force pilots fly and that seems to me a good job.

Yes, pilots fly. That's a safe bet. However, pilots not only make a minority of the Air Force (just as combat troops make up a minority of the Army or Marines) they are officers. In other words they have a decent to good education. Even those who have sufficient education to be an officer and apply for flight duty don't always qualify and among thsoe that do som of them get less than glamorous jobs. People often think you can just volunteer for an Air Force and become a hotshot pilot but that just aint so.

So much of many people's perceptions of the military - and the people who serve in it - are shaped by movies and commonly accepted but fallacious stereotypes...I'm not sure if there's any other profession/way of life about which this is as true.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

If you make it through pilot training in the Thai Air Force a life of Riley awaits. To have made it thus far you will be a university (probably science, mathematics or engineering) graduate and you will be physically very fit (core body strength is a must). There are even possibilities for secondment to Thai Airways whilst being paid by both TA and the air force. You'll be beating the crumpet off with a shitty stick.

Indeed.

As for the physically fit part - I guess that was a rare instance of the stereotypical but often true intra-service rivalry and bias showing through...pilots are very healthy and fit, certainly. I was in a unit that - not without some justification as our was amongst the hardest in the world - sneered at virtually everyone else's PT and level of fitness and I happened to be based near the Air Force: we'd often see their personnel (by no means all of them pilots) doing very desultory and minimal PT -- and poorly at that.

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I hear you!

In a small air force like the Thai one (with fewer people doing steely eyed stuff like para-rescue or forward air control) pilots are likelier be in stark contrast to the rest, bar maybe the commando gym princess gate operators.

When I say pilots have to be fit I'm really talking about pilots who fly aircraft that will make them feel the Gs (so maybe not the lazier Fat Albert pilots). Quite often pilots will look like they've grown into their flight bags but will be made of steel underneath all that flab. It's body conditioning that comes with the job - if you're not strong enough to take the G force the flying will be rather uncomfortable.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Trembly

[SteeleJoe]

I hear you!

In a small air force like the Thai one (with fewer people doing steely eyed stuff like para-rescue or forward air control) pilots are likelier be in stark contrast to the rest, bar maybe the commando gym princess gate operators.

When I say pilots have to be fit I'm really talking about pilots who fly aircraft that will make them feel the Gs (so maybe not the lazier Fat Albert pilots). Quite often pilots will look like they've grown into their flight bags but will be made of steel underneath all that flab. It's body conditioning that comes with the job - if you're not strong enough to take the G force the flying will be rather uncomfortable.

Shame on me for ignoring people like PJs and CCT/Pathfinders - and I mean that. I went to Jump School and Ranger School with both and have immense respect for their physical fitness and even more for the jobs they do (especially, as with the SEALs, their branches only sent them to Army schools if they have already gotten through other selection, so we were training with guys that had already been through their whole process while we were still beginning ours - and they got a lot of good natured abuse from the Army instructors but there was obvious respect granted as well: I get tired of all the hype about SEALs but I will say this -- they are the only guys I saw in Jump School who would literally laugh at the beasting they'd get. Mind you, no one was laughing in Ranger School.).

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Edited January 3, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Hedghog]

What about a stay at a temple.

Many youngster go this route,3mth,6 month,maybe a year or longer.

Give him time for reflection and also,gives you and GF/Wife time,to discuss it better.

[SteeleJoe]

What about a stay at a temple.

Many youngster go this route,3mth,6 month,maybe a year or longer.

Give him time for reflection and also,gives you and GF/Wife time,to discuss it better.

Might be a good idea and can't think how it'd hurt. But my faith in the benefits of such things is conditional and limited: Thai prisons are filled with rapists and murderers who spent time at the temple. (No I'm not equating the young man of the OP with such people - just pointing out that time in a temple obviously doesn't always mean a person gets themselves sorted out).

Anyway, can't force him to do it - there's the rub.

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Edited January 3, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[thedivezone]

Why not get a girlfriend who isn't the mother to some other guy's children?

Usually, they aren't interested in most farangs, unless of course its me.

Too many western guys here set their sights too low. There are enough normal Thai women not carrying the baggage of some other guy's children. No need to settle for the rejects of Thai society.

You're calling girls/teenagers that have been dumped by their thai boy friends that impregnated them the rejects of Thai society ?

You need to get a life !

[thenervoussurgeon]

I wrote a tongue in cheek piece the other day about our son playing video games upstairs while his girlfriend watched soaps downstairs while we were out,instead of chasing her around the house as i would have done in my younger days if my parents left us alone ,but after reading the op and many posts here i am so glad that in comparison he is a good lad ,speaks reads and writes very good english and has just started uni ,although he was about middle of his class he seems to work hard ,we must be one of the lucky ones .

[Hedghog]

Steele Joe.

That the dilemma in this case.

Can't really force him to do anything.

Teenagers.

[farang000999]

[lovelomsak]

Just want to say thanks to everyone who posted on this. I think I have a tough road ahead with this and may be back in the future with updates on this.

[SteeleJoe]

Just want to say thanks to everyone who posted on this. I think I have a tough road ahead with this and may be back in the future with updates on this.

I hate to be discouraging but I personally think you have an almost IMPOSSIBLE road ahead. Almost but not quite. I agree with most of what was said above: the mother is a serious part of the problem; you have to be strong and stay strong; I'm not sure that shouting or barely restrained violence are going to work...but if you manage to do just the right thing -- and you may -- the change will have to come with himself and that may take time no matter what you do...

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