Australian Pensioner Wins The Right To Claim His Pension In Se Asia (Including Thailand)

[Traxster]

I guess you missed the 'tongue in cheek'.......

Here it is again..... :p:p

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Pink Mist]

still waiting for a reply from medicare

[Konini]

Put simply, in legal terms, if an Australian resident leaves Australia they remain an Australian resident until they become a resident in another country. They can only do that by establishing a PERMANENT abode in that country.

This is pretty much what the solicitor told me, although he obviously didn't know about the Medicare thing or he would have mentioned it - he's a friend. I'm not sure what it is exactly, but I understand that there is an international convention to which Australia is a signatory to prevent people being resident of no country and therefore avoiding income tax. Having to become resident in another country before losing residency status in Australia is obviously the way it happens, I didn't this and am grateful for the info.

I understand the argument that if I'm not physically resident in Australia I shouldn't be entitled to anything, but as my husband and myself and our super fund all pay taxes in Australia I can't accept that argument. Whilst I've never been the kind to go on about bludgers and single mothers etc, we've made and are still making a contribution to both the government and the economy by having rental properties which are managed by an estate agent and require local tradesment to maintain and repair, and a fair sized share portfolio. We also own a rental property in England, and I didn't hesitate to declare the income when we bought it in 1995, and I still pay tax on the rent. People tell me I'm crazy, the government would never know we had this property, but I am an honest person - I sleep well at night knowing that I've not knowing broken any law or intentionally cheated anyone. This year, because of tax paid dividends we both actually get a refund, but the super fund is still paying taxes, and if we hadn't happened upon certain shares at the exactly right time we would be paying tax.

In short, I can't accept that with the contribution we are making that we are not entitled to benefits. If we don't qualify for Medicare, what else don't we qualify for? This is an important issue which affects all Aussies. We'll never get a pension or any financial aid from the government because we worked hard, saved well, invested well and are in the position of being self sufficient until we pop our clogs. What about consular access? If we're not resident in Australia should we qualify for that? Drawing a long string, but taxes pay their salaries, if you don't pay tax and haven't for several years should we still be able to access it? The heart says no, but the bean-counting side of my brain says yes.

When we left, we made the conscious decision to do things right. Part of that was, like declaring the rental income from England which I didn't have to, I am honest and will always do the right thing, but that was only part of the reason. .Although we never intended to go back to Aus, there was always the chance of a serious illness or a long term illness. We have travel insurance which covers us for emergencies, but wouldn't cover us if, for example, I needed a new hip. We're both 50 now. Bodies don't last forever. Things are going to start falling off. So, we're on the books, paying our way, we can get a flight back to Australia, go and see a doctor for a referral, have the necessary done usually within days from past experience in a private hospital (remember we were paying our premiums for private health cover for the first 4 years we were away just in case) and straight back onto a plane provided doctors agreed that any follow up work could be done with a doctor where ever we were.

I'm not a bludger, if anything I'm saving the government money by not being there and not being able to claim the pension as we have a healthy balance sheet. I'm not under the radar by personal choice although I could be. I am honest, paying tax and even paying tax on income from UK that I could have gotten away with. To be able to retire at 45, you can assume that we both had high paying jobs, on occasion 2 full time jobs, 2nd job decalred as such and taxed at 48% (it could have been cash in hand, but as well as being wrong, that would mean no workcare cover for my husband working in an industrial setting). High salaries = high taxes. It was a while before I worked out deductions and streamlined things to maximise deductions, but we still paid a hefty amount over the years. In the last couple of years, we both put $50k into super for a deduction, but the fund still had to pay 15% tax on it - that's $15,000 a year, and that's just the super fund.

I can understand the argument for people not being entitled to Medicare if they are under the radar and don't lodge annual tax returns, therefore not doing the right thing and getting the benefits whilst not contributing. Being the devil's advocate though, the majority of retired people paid taxes all their working lives, so perhaps they should be entitled.

Retired, our income is higher than some people still working 40 hours. We contribute to the system in more ways than one, therefore I believe that we should have some entitlement. I really don't think that's unreasonable.

[simple1]

Best of luck for Medicare services for elective treatment once you cease paying for private cover in Australia. You will likely be on a waiting list for years. Plus have you checked the T&C's from the private medical provider for cover when actually living overseas, does it provide for repatriation expenses? Lot better to have private medical cover in Thailand

[Bluetongue]

This discussion while off topic is relevant to a lot of people.

Firstly Panini, how did Medicare establish you had been overseas. OK you went into an office to claim benefits which were not part of a bulk billing arrangement, you had your Medicare card? I have not done this but the claim form does not ask any questions about residence or travel so presumably the over the counter service would be the same. Or had your enrolment with Medicare lapsed somehow? The reason I ask is that my Medicare card expired while I was here, the new one got sent to my address in Australia, and then was lost being forwarded here. Next time I was there, I just fronted up at an office and was given a piece of paper with a number on it as a temporary card and a new one was promptly mailed, I was only there for three weeks and I got it. No questions asked.

I agree with Naaling personally, but not sure from the ATO view. I am naturally hesitant to open a can of worms with the Tax Office when I am apparently flying under their radar, although I've always lodged accurate returns. Its just now, with no salary and wages income all I have is franking credits deducted and I get this abck as it is under the threshold which is now about 18k. It would be no big deal for me over these few years to pay 10% on investements and dividends as a non-resident. However at 55 I become entitled to a healthy pension, and if I am taxed on that as a non-resident I will pay 30% on all of it whereas as a resident with the tax free threshold and the various low income subsidies I will pay much less than that. Furthermore when I turn 60 it is completely tax free, but again I am not sure if this would apply as a non-resident.

At the moment my strategy is to maintain an Australian address, (a friends place where a room is set aside for me when I visit anyway), to always declare myself as a resident returning permanently when I arrive, and to have employment available as a licensed taxi driver with a standing arrangement with an operator. I did however have myself removed from the electoral roll, I hope this was not a mistake

Last two times I have returned, I have not gone cleanly through the check-in, firstly through the chipped passport line at the Gold Coast, I had to be manually processed and the next time again the Gold Coast, the manual operator referred me to a supervisor behind the line who did something on his computer and then let me through. I am concerned about immigration data matching and have today started trawling the net to see what I can find out about which department passes on what and may start another thread if the information is handy.

[Will27]

This discussion while off topic is relevant to a lot of people.

Firstly Panini, how did Medicare establish you had been overseas. OK you went into an office to claim benefits which were not part of a bulk billing arrangement, you had your Medicare card? I have not done this but the claim form does not ask any questions about residence or travel so presumably the over the counter service would be the same. Or had your enrolment with Medicare lapsed somehow? The reason I ask is that my Medicare card expired while I was here, the new one got sent to my address in Australia, and then was lost being forwarded here. Next time I was there, I just fronted up at an office and was given a piece of paper with a number on it as a temporary card and a new one was promptly mailed, I was only there for three weeks and I got it. No questions asked.

I agree with Naaling personally, but not sure from the ATO view. I am naturally hesitant to open a can of worms with the Tax Office when I am apparently flying under their radar, although I've always lodged accurate returns. Its just now, with no salary and wages income all I have is franking credits deducted and I get this abck as it is under the threshold which is now about 18k. It would be no big deal for me over these few years to pay 10% on investements and dividends as a non-resident. However at 55 I become entitled to a healthy pension, and if I am taxed on that as a non-resident I will pay 30% on all of it whereas as a resident with the tax free threshold and the various low income subsidies I will pay much less than that. Furthermore when I turn 60 it is completely tax free, but again I am not sure if this would apply as a non-resident.

At the moment my strategy is to maintain an Australian address, (a friends place where a room is set aside for me when I visit anyway), to always declare myself as a resident returning permanently when I arrive, and to have employment available as a licensed taxi driver with a standing arrangement with an operator. I did however have myself removed from the electoral roll, I hope this was not a mistake

Last two times I have returned, I have not gone cleanly through the check-in, firstly through the chipped passport line at the Gold Coast, I had to be manually processed and the next time again the Gold Coast, the manual operator referred me to a supervisor behind the line who did something on his computer and then let me through. I am concerned about immigration data matching and have today started trawling the net to see what I can find out about which department passes on what and may start another thread if the information is handy.

A great post Bluetongue.

I am in a similiar situation to yourself. IMO, most of the Australians living in Thailand would be classed

as non-residents by the ATO.

I think there's a few reasons why the majority of people who claim to be residents fly under the radar.

Firstly, there's income level. I assume most expats who have retired would be on somewhere between

$25 000 to $60 000. At that income level, it's not really in the ATO's interest to "target" people. So unless

you get caught up in a random audit, you most likely won't come to their interest.

Secondly, it would open a huge can of worms. Imagine it, someone who has worked most of their life,

retires early and then 2 or 3 years down the track is told by the ATO that they will be assessed as non-

residents. So someone who may be able to live comfortably on $30 000 per year in Thailand, would now

lose $9000 in tax. Now IMO, that just ain't right.

As far as data-matching is concerned, I'd say there more than likely was a problem with the chip in your passport.

DIAC's job at the airport is mainly to monitor the in and outgoing of non-residents. They usually would have no

interest at all in an Australian citizen.

And while it's true that Medicare, ATO and other gov't departments can data match with each other, it generally

wouldn't happen at the airport, unless it's a police matter.

Regards

Will

Edited January 9, 2013 by Will27

[Konini]

Best of luck for Medicare services for elective treatment once you cease paying for private cover in Australia. You will likely be on a waiting list for years. Plus have you checked the T&C's from the private medical provider for cover when actually living overseas, does it provide for repatriation expenses? Lot better to have private medical cover in Thailand

Unfortunately we're not resident here, and we need to be to get cover (we have been told this officially). We are only in Thailand about 9 months of the year, split into 3 times so we're more tourist than resident. That's one of the reasons we kept our Aus private health cover up.

[Konini]

Great posts form Bluetongue and Will27. I know that I've taken this thread way off topic, but as Bluetongue said it is very relevant to people still reading.

In answer to Bluetongue, we were caught out exactly the same way as you do. We maintain an Australian address where all of our official mail goes to (same as you, room in a friends house) but forgot to change the address with Medicare. New cards were issued and RTS. As it was more than 12 months between the cards being RTS and our going into the office to make a claim, we were asked why we hadn't done it sooner. Like idiots we told the truth, that we'd been overseas for a few years, coming back to Aus once a year to sort out business, insurance and tax. Very snotty lady (my husband said she seemed to be jealous of what we were doing - she certainly hated her job) told us we weren't entitled. Thinking fast, I said we were back to stay this time and she said prove it. I asked for a supervisor but there wasn't one available, but I made her phone head office in front of us. The way she worded the question, there was no way she was going to be proved wrong, so I hit the phone as soon as I got 'home'. Normally I would have put in a complaint about her, but we were on delicate ground with Medicare so I bit my tongue. After thinking for a while, we went to a different Medicare office with photocopies of bank statements, tax returns etc with our Aus address on them, explained it to the lovely lady on the desk who told me there was no need to see the photocopies just our drivers licences for ID, processed our refund and said new cards would be mailed to us. We haven't received any correspondence from Medicare, so the spanner is obviously in the works. I haven't wanted to make it worse, so decided to wait until we were back in Australia to try and sort out. Had I known this would happen, I would have just said we didn't need to claim for anything so didn't realise the cards had expired and omitted the bit about being overseas. I repeat that I'm not trying to cheat the system. We still pay taxes and get no other benefit.

I did the calculator for ATO at http://calculators.a...ncy_leaving.XR4 (thank you Will27) decision was that I was a resident for tax purposed and that I:

• need to declare worldwide income that you earn, subject to the operation of any international tax treaties. That includes capital gains from the disposal of assets.
  
  
• will be subject to income tax at resident rates, including the medicare levy.
  
  
• will be entitled to a full tax-free threshold.
  

Note number 2. Including a levy for something to which we are not entitled. For the residency decision, we still have ties to Australia (ute full of things, rental properties, room full of stuff at a friends' house), we go back to Aus once a year for 1-2 months, depending on the weather and which way the wind is blowing, we haven't taken up or intend to take up residency in another country and don't spend more than 2 months in any country without moving along. For the time being, we keep returning to Chiang Mai, but I don't know if or when that is going to change. In the material sense we have no ties to Thailand - all of our investments, personal items, legal affairs and the like are in Aus or UK, including a superannuation fund which we can't access for a while because we're not old enough.

@Will27 - we also took ourselves off the electoral roll, but I can't see that being a problem. I agree with you that the problem was probably with the chip. We're about to make our 6th return trip to Aus, and have never had a problem with immigration on the way in or out.

A bigger question is that for people like me, and granted there aren't a lot but some, what is our status? We've spent a good bit of time in Thailand the last 3 years. 3 years prior to that we were a few weeks here, a few weeks there. That's why we were told that we would remain resident for legal purposes as we can't be a resident of nowhere, and not an overseas resident as we don't spend the time required in any single place. I can't claim to be a resident of Thailand as we spend at very most 9 months of the year here, often much less. We have an apartment which is a base in south east Asia, but we can't tell you if we'll stay here next year. We probably will go back to Australia when we get so old we don't want to be in the heat all the time and do as my mother constantly nags and grow up and get a house and act like proper people do, not gypsy's. And in all that time, we (and our super fund) will be paying tax.

I've said it before, but I'm not trying to get something for nothing. I'm honest. I declared a fair sized income from UK that the ATO would never have known about, and continue to do so each year. I've paid taxes for the 5 and a bit years we've been away. I really don't think that I'm being unreasonable by expecting Medicare benefits.

[CBR250]

Very relevant discussion for me. I am in a similar boat - I am still an Australian resident for tax purposes, and pay tax as required on all income. Yet I live mostly in Thailand, with occasional trips to other countries. I have cancelled my private health insurance in Oz, and have removed myself from the electoral role. But I still have an Oz address, drivers license etc.

As yet, I have not used Medicare when in Australia, but would expect the right to do so. I hope I can!

Also, I would also like to get retirement benefits when I hit 65 as fellow expats from UK, US, Canada etc are able to do. But I understand that even tho' I am a resident of Oz for tax (and pay it each year), I will not get anything. Pretty obnoxious system overall.

[CBR250]

Oh, and back to the OP - I think the court has made a humane and sensible decision to give this guy some benefits. I have met people like him - they do not have the capacity to work, so the rest of us should chip in thru' tax to keep him alive and as well as possible. If he chooses to live overseas because of cost/ lifestyle, well, that's totally understandable, and exactly what I am doing too (without the disability pension or other govt benefits). He would be a mug to stay in Australia and try to survive on the govt handout if he has the mental ability to live in Asia.

[Naaling]

The biggest problem we face in this situation, is that the officials we talk to in Australia often do not know the rules themselves. For example, I have been living in Thailand for nearly 12 years. About 7 years ago my accountant (a CPA) informed me that I could no longer submit returns as a resident, because I had been out of the country too long. I replied with the information in my earlier post. About 2 days later i received a reply from the accountant saying I was correct and that I could continue to submit returns as a resident. If a CPA doesn't know the rules then what are the chances of the front counter people in centerlink or medicare knowing them? The problem is then exacerbated by the fact that they can only find special rules for people who have become non-residents, because people who remain residents are simply treated as such.. Without understanding the distinction between resident and non-resident they then incorrectly try to apply rules for non-residents to residents. This is what my accountant did and so did the medicare lady in Konini's post.

[giddyup]

The biggest problem we face in this situation, is that the officials we talk to in Australia often do not know the rules themselves. For example, I have been living in Thailand for nearly 12 years. About 7 years ago my accountant (a CPA) informed me that I could no longer submit returns as a resident, because I had been out of the country too long. I replied with the information in my earlier post. About 2 days later i received a reply from the accountant saying I was correct and that I could continue to submit returns as a resident. If a CPA doesn't know the rules then what are the chances of the front counter people in centerlink or medicare knowing them? The problem is then exacerbated by the fact that they can only find special rules for people who have become non-residents, because people who remain residents are simply treated as such.. Without understanding the distinction between resident and non-resident they then incorrectly try to apply rules for non-residents to residents. This is what my accountant did and so did the medicare lady in Konini's post.

When I advised Centrelink that I was moving to Thailand, the first thing the woman said to me (smugly) was, "you know we will stop your OAP" I told her that was rubbish, and that I was still eligible to draw the pension wherever I lived. After 5 minutes of checking on her computer she admitted she was wrong. See 10 different people in Centrelink and get 10 different answers to your question.

[BookMan]

[

The biggest problem we face in this situation, is that the officials we talk to in Australia often do not know the rules themselves. For example, I have been living in Thailand for nearly 12 years. About 7 years ago my accountant (a CPA) informed me that I could no longer submit returns as a resident, because I had been out of the country too long. I replied with the information in my earlier post. About 2 days later i received a reply from the accountant saying I was correct and that I could continue to submit returns as a resident. If a CPA doesn't know the rules then what are the chances of the front counter people in centerlink or medicare knowing them? The problem is then exacerbated by the fact that they can only find special rules for people who have become non-residents, because people who remain residents are simply treated as such.. Without understanding the distinction between resident and non-resident they then incorrectly try to apply rules for non-residents to residents. This is what my accountant did and so did the medicare lady in Konini's post.

When I advised Centrelink that I was moving to Thailand, the first thing the woman said to me (smugly) was, "you know we will stop your OAP" I told her that was rubbish, and that I was still eligible to draw the pension wherever I lived. After 5 minutes of checking on her computer she admitted she was wrong. See 10 different people in Centrelink and get 10 different answers to your question.

The difficulty does seem to be the level of information that is available. The various websites have what seems to be dumbed down information that does not cater to specific exceptions (which seem to be common)

The only way to know your entitlements is to be able to view the same legislation/rules as that which the relevant department make their decisions by.

[BookMan]

Oh, and back to the OP - I think the court has made a humane and sensible decision to give this guy some benefits. I have met people like him - they do not have the capacity to work, so the rest of us should chip in thru' tax to keep him alive and as well as possible. If he chooses to live overseas because of cost/ lifestyle, well, that's totally understandable, and exactly what I am doing too (without the disability pension or other govt benefits). He would be a mug to stay in Australia and try to survive on the govt handout if he has the mental ability to live in Asia.

As he has schizophrenia I have to question whether he does have the mental ability to live in Asia for 65% of the year. Apparently though he does, having hopped around to all and sundry SE Asian countries, dealing with his medications, visas, and all other travel issues that op up as he went.

The judgement found that he had no fixed abode in Asia and had not spent enough time in any one country to call that country home.

I believe this loophole has now been closed to all future claimants of the Disability pension. Something like a maximum of 12 weeks now before u lose your pension? Perhaps someone can correct me if I am wrong.

[simple1]

Oh, and back to the OP - I think the court has made a humane and sensible decision to give this guy some benefits. I have met people like him - they do not have the capacity to work, so the rest of us should chip in thru' tax to keep him alive and as well as possible. If he chooses to live overseas because of cost/ lifestyle, well, that's totally understandable, and exactly what I am doing too (without the disability pension or other govt benefits). He would be a mug to stay in Australia and try to survive on the govt handout if he has the mental ability to live in Asia.

As he has schizophrenia I have to question whether he does have the mental ability to live in Asia for 65% of the year. Apparently though he does, having hopped around to all and sundry SE Asian countries, dealing with his medications, visas, and all other travel issues that op up as he went.

The judgement found that he had no fixed abode in Asia and had not spent enough time in any one country to call that country home.

I believe this loophole has now been closed to all future claimants of the Disability pension. Something like a maximum of 12 weeks now before u lose your pension? Perhaps someone can correct me if I am wrong.

As previously posted:

Reduced down to six weeks as of 01/01/2013, detail below

Disability Support Pension (DSP)

If you leave Australia to live in another country you will not be able to receive the Disability Support Pension (DSP) in the other country, unless you:

• are terminally ill and are leaving Australia permanently to be with or near a family member, or to return to your country of origin, or
  
• left Australia prior to 1 July 2004, and at the time of leaving you were told that you could be paid indefinitely, and you have not returned to Australia to live since that time, or
  
• have been assessed in Australia prior to the departure as having a permanent, severe impairment and no future work capacity. Assessment involves a review of your DSP qualification and a Job Capacity Assessment.
  

In these situations, you can keep your DSP payments for the whole time you’re outside Australia. However, the amount that you get may change.

When you leave Australia temporarily, you can usually get your DSP payments for up to six weeks while you're away.

[IrishIvan]

The biggest problem we face in this situation, is that the officials we talk to in Australia often do not know the rules themselves. For example, I have been living in Thailand for nearly 12 years. About 7 years ago my accountant (a CPA) informed me that I could no longer submit returns as a resident, because I had been out of the country too long. I replied with the information in my earlier post. About 2 days later i received a reply from the accountant saying I was correct and that I could continue to submit returns as a resident. If a CPA doesn't know the rules then what are the chances of the front counter people in centerlink or medicare knowing them? The problem is then exacerbated by the fact that they can only find special rules for people who have become non-residents, because people who remain residents are simply treated as such.. Without understanding the distinction between resident and non-resident they then incorrectly try to apply rules for non-residents to residents. This is what my accountant did and so did the medicare lady in Konini's post.

When I advised Centrelink that I was moving to Thailand, the first thing the woman said to me (smugly) was, "you know we will stop your OAP" I told her that was rubbish, and that I was still eligible to draw the pension wherever I lived. After 5 minutes of checking on her computer she admitted she was wrong. See 10 different people in Centrelink and get 10 different answers to your question.

Its like the staff at centerlink thrive off taking you off whats rightfully yours. Are they forgetting where they get their pay checks from?

[OLDAUSSIE]

Oh yes the wonderful staff at C/L.

Three years ago I phoned C/L international on three different occasions over a period of two weeks and asked this question.

Q... Can I have my pension paid direct into my Thai Bank account?

1st A.... NO.

2nd A.... Only if its a U.S$ account.

3rd A.... Yes.

Last year I spoke with a guy from CLI who had worked there for 15 years and asked him why the staff were always giving people the wrong answers, he explained that if the staff don't know the answer they will just make something up to get you off the phone as you are causing them to work.

I now advise people if they are not happy with a decision get that staff member to put it in writing,

You can read more here: http://www.australianpensioner.org/

[IrishIvan]

So how come all the people in my family reaching retirement age now are having to go on pensions?

That is a question you will have to answer yourself as they are your family. How could I answer without knowing them?

Well bookman my family all had good paying blue collar jobs. It could be described as a huge family. We grew up in a large housing commission house in Maroubra.My Dad was a wharfie (along wih a lot of other older family members), he received a nice payout in 98 and then looks like getting another redundancy this year too. With this money in 98 he lost his housing commission place and put the money into another house in the arra. My mum was a welfare recepiant while she raised us. After we grew up a bit she got a job as a glassy in the local bowling club. So they own their own house now but they still have to live there and come up with money for the bills, a lot of the money was spent on the kids

One my many Uncles that lived with us was a garbo, when they contracted out a lot of these jobs he got made redundant along with a few of my other family members, funnily enough they all got jobs as baggage handlers in Sydney Airport. On another side of the family they had a tow truck business, and are quite wealthy. Also on mums side of the family there were a lot of scaffolders and labourers in the construction industry, train drivers, ferry workers, a couple worked for the MSB before they were made redundant. Mate too many to list really

Now as I said a lot of these people are hitting retirement age and yes they own their own houses, they all had/have good paying jobs but they will not be cash rich and will have to rely on some form of social security like the old age pension, and if they want to live overseas whats the problem?

Here you go Bookman, I found this in todays news, we might see more pensioners in SE asia http://www.news.com.au/money/superannuation/super-shock-baby-boomers-are-bust/story-e6frfmdi-1226558570263

[weegee]

irishIvan....read the link.

The comment 24 by Judy Clark, was the most truthful I have read. Couldnt agree more with part of her comment pasted below.

So meanwhile they give all the pensioners deserved retirement to other countries by the billions and leave our pensioners not just wanting, but needing. How dare they glorify

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/money/superannuation/super-shock-baby-boomers-are-bust/story-e6frfmdi-1226558570263#ixzz2IhMb89IP

[haggis54]

I am disabled pensioner like this chap and i applaud AAT for its decision to let this man keep his pention while keeps travelling.

If anyone was at fault it was centrelink who like me was told we could do this .we should not be punished for someones mistake,

but no, the backlash is that our pention will now only be paid for 6 weeks if out out australia making me travel more than twice as much .

what i have in thailand is a wife and two children and that is something i could never have in aus on benefits.

IM GOING TO THE AAT

HAGGIS 54

[kevvy]

Good for him. I've never really understood why pensioners need to be penalised for living OS.

actually it does save money for the goverment in Aus, if you live in Aus you get paid an extra money for phone , heating , travel , medication and other intilements . so by living overseas they actually save money . so i dont understand why either.maybe because all the do gooders in Aus think by gettting the pension and living in thailand they are having a great time . i dont need the Australian nanny state to look after me .

[kevvy]

Seen the Google ADD below the last post....advertising for Visas to work in Australia.

Great hey, Aussies out of work everywhere,( some because they are third generation Bludgers)...and they advertise for foreign workers, who will gladly have the job to settle themselves into what they can take out and bring home to their country for the rest of their life....round and round it goes, and Australians who worked and payed Taxes all their life are allowing this to happen....OH NO!!! I didnt vote for them!!!!

Yeah sure, have you ever thought of trying to get one of those jobs advertised in Aus. I can tell you they are like hens teeth. The mining boom is a fallacy for workers. You MUST have experience in that field. They aren't interested in training anyone at all. So the only workers they are SUPPOSED to get from overseas are those with experience in the field that no aussies can do.

The dopey govt, if they used half a brain, would tell the mining companies that they can get foreign workers but for every one of them they must employ an aussie to be trained in the same position. When that aussie is trained then the foreigner should be sent home.

But it aint gonna happen. Just go onto google and try and apply for those so called jobs. Not a hope in hell.

No one can live on a diability pension or OAP in Aus unless they actually own their own home. Honestly it would not be a live but a very meagre existence. The cost of living is extreme and it is getting worse. I earned $50k a year less tax and had to live with my brother to survive. I certainly couldn't afford to live in a place on my own. The whole economy is based on married couples, must have a double income. Any single man is shit on, he gets nothing.

Cost of housing was way too high causing many young couples to live with parents until late 20's etc so they could save to buy a house. Then of course there is the borrowing agains the house for a car etc. Then the housing bubble burst and expendable income dropped, hence no one is Aus is spending.

Perhaps someone in the know could tell me as I don't know about Super but there is a lot of complaining that those who did save and live off their Super are now finding it hard because the Reserve Bank has dropped interest rates so low. Though the banks don't think to drop them accordingly.

Mining boom is slowing, When that bubble bursts I would hate to be living in Aus, Aus may have averted the global financial crisis for now, but it will come and when it does it will be a huge fall.

Glad I got out of there. Now living on half the money with twice the lifestyle.

the single population keps the family population going . they tax the singles like there is no tommorrow

[kevvy]

The guy is getting a disability pension, not OAP as he's 62. Under current rules, once he's 65 the disability pension rolls over to a OAP, so long as he is resident in Australia at that time & would then be able to receive the OAP whilst living overseas full time.

Did you read the article? He has no address so how can he reside in Australia?

Streets arent an address.

Look out Pattaya, a influx of methadone addicts from australia that claim 'DISABILITY' pensions due to their 'Illness'.

Its too easy to claim disabilty in Australia.

have you tried to get on disability claim? if you have then you would not make this comment.my daughter went through it and it was hell what they wanted from her , she was treated like a liar .

[David48]

The disability pension is social welfare; the old age pension is social welfare. These payments are made so people have money to eat and money for accommodation. If you have worked all your life that's great but it does not entitle you to welfare payments. You become eligible for welfare when you simply have no other means of supporting yourself. The idea that you are entitled to welfare at a certain age is fast becoming a thing of the past because people started living beyond the average of 65. If you are able to support yourself financially you should never take money from any government as all you’re doing is taking funds away from people who are unable to financially take care of themselves. A financially secure person taking a welfare payment because they feel "entitled or they've earned it" beggars belief.

The above is worthy of a 2^nd read, if only because it provides an alternative viewpoint that might be worthy of consideration.

.

[ABCer]

In this case I disagree with the ruling - why should a nomad, who has never worked or spent most of his time in Oz be given a pension?

Sounds like he has spent the first 52 years of his life in OZ.

Fair innings for me, but it also beside the point.

If one qualifies for a government pension, whether it be old age or disability, why should the government prohibit you from receiving it in a jurisdiction there the receiver may be getting better value for money?

If they have qualified, they have qualified. That is all that should matter. If there is a need for reassessment in future, then they should go back to oz at their own expense for reassessment at the designated time.

Centrelink in Aus works under a very dodgy and complicated set of rules. The dichotomy is obvious. Here is one example only.

A newcomer - resident - is paid Social Security allowance, disability benefit, pension (call it whatever) PLUS all perks that go with the Health Card.

An age pensioner (AP) Citizen living in SE Asia - is non-Resident and thus loses Pharmaceutical Allowance rights.

I know a man over 70, AP, who must be on a life saving meds but he must buy it here with no right to use PBS in Aus. Meds prescribed by Aus Doctors! This is 1000's of AUD per year.

Fair? Justified? I suppose logically speaking we could argue for or against... this is the beauty of logic...

The pinch to an individual is substantial. The savings to the Gov't is - peanuts... go figure...

Edited June 23, 2013 by ABCer

[IrishIvan]

Good for him. I've never really understood why pensioners need to be penalised for living OS.

actually it does save money for the goverment in Aus, if you live in Aus you get paid an extra money for phone , heating , travel , medication and other intilements . so by living overseas they actually save money . so i dont understand why either.maybe because all the do gooders in Aus think by gettting the pension and living in thailand they are having a great time . i dont need the Australian nanny state to look after me .

The general population in Australia want you to be miserable in the suburbs eating sliced devon and baked beans, not enjoying yourself in paradise. Its never about what costs the government more money

Edited June 23, 2013 by IrishIvan

[Doc46]

In this case I disagree with the ruling - why should a nomad, who has never worked or spent most of his time in Oz be given a pension?

Who said that he did not work before he became a Nomad, Maybe he became a nomad by choice and paid enough taxes so now he can get away from all the Bullshit in peace

[NoshowJones]

Good for him. I've never really understood why pensioners need to be penalised for living OS.

That's a valid point, since my understanding is that one earned his pension during his working life.

Next they gonna dictate what you are allowed to buy with your pension.

I'm glad I made the decision more than 30 years ago that it was better to put the payments in my pocket personal pension fund instead of giving to a greedy governement in the hope I will receive a pension once..

I retired at 32 without the need of any alms from my government

He didn't actually "earn" this pension. It's a Disability pension, not an Old Age pension.

If a person in any country is entitled to that pension, whether it is through paying into it or not, he should not be penilised in any way, no matter what country he lives in.

[NoshowJones]

The disability pension is social welfare; the old age pension is social welfare. These payments are made so people have money to eat and money for accommodation. If you have worked all your life that's great but it does not entitle you to welfare payments. You become eligible for welfare when you simply have no other means of supporting yourself. The idea that you are entitled to welfare at a certain age is fast becoming a thing of the past because people started living beyond the average of 65. If you are able to support yourself financially you should never take money from any government as all you’re doing is taking funds away from people who are unable to financially take care of themselves. A financially secure person taking a welfare payment because they feel "entitled or they've earned it" beggars belief.

The above is worthy of a 2^nd read, if only because it provides an alternative viewpoint that might be worthy of consideration.

.

In the case of the UK, everyone should take as much as they can, because after the Government and MPs have lined their own pockets, they just start lining the pockets of foreign Governments with overseas aid, and not to mention all these immigrants that keep flooding in, and depriving OAPs of their annual pension increases in some countries.

[mickjn]

I have not read all on the posts regarding this issuue,but I will tell you one thing.If you ever have to ring Centrelink,note the date.Most off the staff at Centrelink do not know what the are doing.I am not having a go at them,I just do not think they are trained well enough.I rang them to report earning from interest quite a few years ago.I was told I had not reported for 2 years,they wanted me to go and get bank statements for the last 2 years, and I said ok.I couple of days later I was going to the bank and I was hang on you have reported every 3 months what are you doing.I rang them back and said I wanted to report earnings,the girl said to me have you got the bank statements in front of you.I said before we start,is this call being recorded,she said no I said I want it recorded please.She said ok,now can you read out the statements for me,I said no can I speak to the supervisor.The supervisor gets on the phone and said you have not reported income earned for 2 years I said you say that but it is not correct.She said OK whats the balance of the account,I said about $200 less than 2 years ago,I get interest every 3 months but I spend it.Now I ring them every 3 months never have a problem